RIP Gamestop

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They are not over time. The asymptotic low point for digital sales is lower than the asymptotic low price for physical sales, because the physical sales carry costs that prevent companies from routinely buying inventory that reaches the price of digital sales. You are just wrong. You are not going to see physical sales for $5 for new games.

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You can say I'm wrong but I'm not seeing anything to support this assertion, I'm seeing the opposite.
Just checking a few titles and every single one (God of War Ragnarok, Last of Us 2 Remastered, Spider Man 2, Elden Ring) all have lower "all-time lowest" pricing points on Amazon for physical discs than PSN has for the digital copies. I'm not going to claim that this is comprehensive across every title ever as that is unlikely but I'm certainly not seeing anything to support your claim that digital has lower pricing points as a standard practice.

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The reason God of War Ragnarok is cheaper as a physical sale on Amazon for a significant proportion of time out of the year is because Amazon has costs of buying and inventorying God of War Ragnarok and the cost of inventorying God of War Ragnarok for Playstation is nothing.

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It's cheaper for most of the year AND has a cheaper lowest price point. And yes, I already made the point about needing to move inventory so you're literally not saying anything I haven't already, just ignoring the reality that physical for that title has a lower typical and lower sale price point than PSN.

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Discounting and prices below what you could even get as a used price will still happen.

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You keep saying this but I've yet to see you support the claim. I see you try to support it below but I'm not seeing that the facts are in support. It's really not hard to go to psprices.com and compare to camelcamelcamel and the latter routinely shows lower pricing (both current and all-time low for sales).

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You can, as an example, buy God of War 2018 for $10 on PSN while it's priced at $14 at Gamestop used. Same prices on Ebay. A patient price conscious shopper is not going to get taken advantage of the way you claim.

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God of War 2018 is on sale on PSN right now for $10 (it's all time low). It's normally $20. Right now it goes for $20 on Amazon but has a low sale price of $7. So again, not really in support of your argument and you focusing on Gamestop and ignoring other avenues just goes to show how multiple storefronts to shop is a benefit to consumers and Sony is attempting to eliminate this. Gamestop doesn't have as easy of a price tracker as Amazon so I can't really speak to what their all-time low price for GoW 2018 would be to compare to the sale price you're currently referring to.

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They will absolutely do everything they can to maximize revenue/profit that they can get away with. Key qualifier is get away with.

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So no comment on the list of things they've already attempted to get away with? We just going to keep ignoring that and how it's apparently logical to just assume they aren't going to try more? Or do you approve of those actions?

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The reason Xbox is pursuing a disc to digital process is not because they intend on supporting discs in the future, it's because they aren't.

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No ****, that wasn't the claim or the point. The point is that they are offering something up meanwhile Sony is just telling you nothing. I'm not sure how you gloss over that.

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Whether Sony follows a similar procedure or sells a disc based peripheral remains to be seen, but to argue that Sony should support disc based media into perpetuity is to argue for a tech debt that persistently makes the norm consumer's experience more expensive.

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I am not arguing they should support in perpetuity. I'm saying your blind confidence in them to be at all fair is in contradiction to the history of what they have tried to do in recent history. When Microsoft, who is about as anti-consumer as it comes, is aiming for policies that are objectively better for consumers at providing multiple opportunities to shop for products for their console and providing an avenue for people with physical libraries to digitize them you should probably start to question some things.

DonHenley said:

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RIP Gamestop

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You would think so but I've been saying this for a decade and they keep surviving. Should have the cockroach as their mascot.

Fenrir said:

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You can say I'm wrong but I'm not seeing anything to support this assertion, I'm seeing the opposite.
Just checking a few titles and every single one (God of War Ragnarok, Last of Us 2 Remastered, Spider Man 2, Elden Ring) all have lower "all-time lowest" pricing points on Amazon for physical discs than PSN has for the digital copies. I'm not going to claim that this is comprehensive across every title ever as that is unlikely but I'm certainly not seeing anything to support your claim that digital has lower pricing points as a standard practice.

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Pricing strategies on 3 year old games is different than on 5 year old games. Pricing strategies on 3 year old high volume selling games that extended print production is different than pricing strategies on games that sold moderately well. Well selling games print discs late into year 2, moderately selling games stop production 12-18 months after release. Discounting is dependent upon how long the physical game stock persists.

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It's cheaper for most of the year AND has a cheaper lowest price point. And yes, I already made the point about needing to move inventory so you're literally not saying anything I haven't already, just ignoring the reality that physical for that title has a lower typical and lower sale price point than PSN.

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The duration of the "Lowest price ever" for most of the games you're looking at is very, very, very brief. They are not norm discounting practices as compared to the point for PSN which aligns with the norm discounting price level of the games.

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You keep saying this but I've yet to see you support the claim. I see you try to support it below but I'm not seeing that the facts are in support. It's really not hard to go to psprices.com and compare to camelcamelcamel and the latter routinely shows lower pricing (both current and all-time low for sales).

God of War 2018 is on sale on PSN right now for $10 (it's all time low). It's normally $20. Right now it goes for $20 on Amazon but has a low sale price of $7. So again, not really in support of your argument and you focusing on Gamestop and ignoring other avenues just goes to show how multiple storefronts to shop is a benefit to consumers and Sony is attempting to eliminate this. Gamestop doesn't have as easy of a price tracker as Amazon so I can't really speak to what their all-time low price for GoW 2018 would be to compare to the sale price you're currently referring to.

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God of War 2018 is priced lower than used pricing right now. It is priced this way once every 3 months. Average used price is $10.37 on eBay. When you say God of War has a low price of $7 you're talking about a sale price from 3 years ago that lasted one day. Let's be serious.

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So no comment on the list of things they've already attempted to get away with? We just going to keep ignoring that and how it's apparently logical to just assume they aren't going to try more? Or do you approve of those actions?

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Why didn't they get away with the things they tried to get away with, but apparently failed to get away with? I know the answer. Do you?

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No ****, that wasn't the claim or the point. The point is that they are offering something up meanwhile Sony is just telling you nothing. I'm not sure how you gloss over that.

I am not arguing they should support in perpetuity. I'm saying your blind confidence in them to be at all fair is in contradiction to the history of what they have tried to do in recent history. When Microsoft, who is about as anti-consumer as it comes, is aiming for policies that are objectively better for consumers at providing multiple opportunities to shop for products for their console and providing an avenue for people with physical libraries to digitize them you should probably start to question some things.

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When is it appropriate for them to stop support? Why not now? That Playstation has the ability to end support of previous generation physical media is evidence that physical media is not substantially less immune to corporate influence in terms of its longterm viability.

Microsoft has not been anti-consumer this console generation. They have been anything but anti-consumer. They have begged, pleaded, and routinely underpriced their games to attempt to gain consumers and how did it work out for them? Didn't gain consumers, and had to shutdown/reduce staff at several developers that have in the past made very good games. They sabotaged themselves in pursuit of satisfying consumers. You want your companies selfish enough so they do not do what Xbox did, and not so selfish that they damage their own profitability by pissing off customers.

You think I'm saying Playstation will behave as a consequence of their own virtue. They don't. They will do whatever they can get away with to make profit. They can't do whatever they want, because consumers respond. You are not an idle victim, you have choice.


Your theory is that Amazon forces Playstation to aggressively price their games and yet you can't give examples of Playstation undercutting Amazon on price, despite immense power to do so. My theory is that Amazon is not a true competitor to Playstation. That not only does Amazon selling games cheaply not force Playstation to discount games, rather it prevents them from discounting games as early or as frequently as they otherwise would if Amazon didn't buy games from them. My theory holds up to the pricing histories. Yours does not.

Games go through cycles in the current business plan. They get released, lots of copies get printed, most games get a couple of printings during the first year to satiate demand. Better selling games extend that printing into the second year. Sony and Xbox allow retailers to do the discounting operations for them and they keep their digital storefronts higher priced to allow retailers to sell through inventory. Absent the retailers Sony and Xbox don't have to concern themselves with what Amazon or Walmart need prices to be to not lose their ass on games they bought.

For games like God of War Ragnarok the period of retail restriction of digital discounting is longer, because it sells well and physical discs persist for longer. For worse selling games the period between release and digital prices undercutting/matching physical price lows is shorter. 3-4 years for Ragnarok, 2-3 for something like RoboCop Rogue City. Over time digital undercuts the lowest prices physical achieves. God of War 2018 is an example of this. Early after it's release it would never, ever, ever be discounted so low, but because nearly the entirety of the physical stock has been depleted it gets reduced to $9.99 for every seasonal sale, Black Friday and Christmas.

If you want to be a budget digital gamer, buy games 3-4 years after they've been released. For gaming you're either in the midst of the conversation paying $70 when the game gets released, or you're playing it alone solely for your own experience. Graphical progression is nearly dead. A PS4 game and a PS5 game are not substantially different. Play old games. Save money. They will still be discounted.

YouBet said:

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DonHenley said:

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RIP Gamestop

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You would think so but I've been saying this for a decade and they keep surviving. Should have the cockroach as their mascot.

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Pokemon cards. Amiibos. Funkopops. They sell the things that physical game buyers buy. Collectibles. That a low volume collectible is going away isn't going to bankrupt the company. Would be called HoarderStop, but then they might actually.

hph6203 said:

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YouBet said:

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DonHenley said:

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RIP Gamestop

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You would think so but I've been saying this for a decade and they keep surviving. Should have the cockroach as their mascot.

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Pokemon cards. Amiibos. Funkopops. They sell the things that physical game buyers buy. Collectibles. That a low volume collectible is going away isn't going to bankrupt the company. Would be called HoarderStop, but then they might actually.

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Never even heard of that stuff besides Pokmon cards which is why I've been wrong for so long on them. I haven't stepped foot in a GameStop in probably 25 years.

And now their new possibly crazy CEO plans to try and buy eBay. lol.

DonHenley said:

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RIP Gamestop

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Good riddance

Gonna piss someone off, but the more I think about this the better it sounds. Next gen is probably going to be pretty good.

PS6 Handheld that is supposed to be lower spec than PS5, so it provides a justification for AAA support for PS5 for longer.

AI upscaling will give longer life to PS5.

PS6 is going to be stupid expensive, making install base/adoption slower, again forcing support of PS5 for longer.

Expanding catalog due to architecture consistency across generations means PS4 games are going to be <$5 eventually, PS5 AAA games will hit <$10 price points.

Wild guess, but PlayStation can (should) probably have support for PS3 emulation, meaning possibility of any game from 1994-present being on the platform (publisher discretion).


Like a substantially more refined Steam/Steam Machine/Steam Deck ecosystem, but more powerful and cheaper.


Plus less hoarding activities and e-waste.

hph6203 said:

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Gonna piss someone off, but the more I think about this the better it sounds. Next gen is probably going to be pretty good.

PS6 Handheld that is supposed to be lower spec than PS5, so it provides a justification for AAA support for PS5 for longer.

AI upscaling will give longer life to PS5.

PS6 is going to be stupid expensive, making install base/adoption slower, again forcing support of PS5 for longer.

Expanding catalog due to architecture consistency across generations means PS4 games are going to be <$5 eventually, PS5 AAA games will hit <$10 price points.

Wild guess, but PlayStation can (should) probably have support for PS3 emulation, meaning possibility of any game from 1994-present being on the platform (publisher discretion).


Like a substantially more refined Steam/Steam Machine/Steam Deck ecosystem, but more powerful and cheaper.


Plus less hoarding activities and e-waste.

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I'm here for it.

hph6203 said:

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Gonna piss someone off, but the more I think about this the better it sounds. Next gen is probably going to be pretty good.

PS6 Handheld that is supposed to be lower spec than PS5, so it provides a justification for AAA support for PS5 for longer.

AI upscaling will give longer life to PS5.

PS6 is going to be stupid expensive, making install base/adoption slower, again forcing support of PS5 for longer.

Expanding catalog due to architecture consistency across generations means PS4 games are going to be <$5 eventually, PS5 AAA games will hit <$10 price points.

Wild guess, but PlayStation can (should) probably have support for PS3 emulation, meaning possibility of any game from 1994-present being on the platform (publisher discretion).


Like a substantially more refined Steam/Steam Machine/Steam Deck ecosystem, but more powerful and cheaper.


Plus less hoarding activities and e-waste.

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Yeah that all sounds good to me.

Also, I have a feeling that there will also be a "PS6 Lite" console, which uses the same hardware as the PS6 Handheld, but without a screen.

Not sure if that would be worth pursuing, cost wise, maybe the screen just doesn't drive the needle that much on cost to make it worthwhile.

But the PS6 Handheld could double as a "plug and play console" like the Switch.

With AI upscaling, PS6 Handheld should look pretty competitive with PS5 base, if not better, despite the lower power.

My theory is they're going to do much more soft cutoffs between generations and support hardware for way longer than they used to. So instead of PS6 Lite it's just PS5. Consoles are glorified PCs now. Developers are trying to cater to a large PC game variety and graphics are crawling forward in terms of noticeable improvement, meaning PS5 likely has a lot of life left.

Think they're also going to use this generation to begin a more substantial push into streaming games.

Wild speculation:

Fall 2027
-Release PS6 at $1000. Controller has WiFi built in, rear button paddles and backwards compatible with PS5.
-PS5 Pro price drop to $750
-PS5 price drop to $550
-PS6 Portal released $250
-End disc edition production, shift to all digital SKUs for PS5

Fall 2028
-Handheld release $800
-PS5 Pro ultra slim release $700
-PS5 Digital ultra slim release at $500

2030
-RAMpocalypse ending
-PS6 - $700
-Handheld - $650
-PS5 Pro Ultra Slim - $600
-PS5 Ultra Slim - $450

2031
-PS6 Pro released for $900
-PS6 $700
-PS5 Pro Ultra Slim $550
-PS5 Ultra Slim discontinued
-AAA support ending for PS5, continues for PS5 Pro
-PS branded streaming box $200. Included PS6 controller

I bet yall didn't know we had the Chief Product Officer of Sony posting here.

Giving away corporate secrets and people are arguing with me about the future strategy.

I've got no issues with this. The last game I bought a disc for was Horizon Zero Dawn and only because I wanted the collector's edition. The last actual game disc I bought was Call of Duty Ghosts for PS3. Then got the digital upgrade as soon as I got a PS4. I'm honestly surprised it took this long for it to happen. A lot of games are now larger than what can fit on a disc so even buying a disc is just a license to download the game, same as a digital purchase.

spieg12 said:

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I've got no issues with this. The last game I bought a disc for was Horizon Zero Dawn and only because I wanted the collector's edition. The last actual game disc I bought was Call of Duty Ghosts for PS3. Then got the digital upgrade as soon as I got a PS4. I'm honestly surprised it took this long for it to happen. A lot of games are now larger than what can fit on a disc so even buying a disc is just a license to download the game, same as a digital purchase.

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Correct. And that's what GTA VI is doing for a compromise. Game won't fit on disc, so you buy the box and there is just a download code in the box.

Pretty dumb and waste of money but I guess it makes the physical copy folks feel better...partially.

It's the same price? How's it a waste of money.

Also sometimes physical have different deals e.g just bought CFB 27 physical from Best Buy and I got a $10 GC with preorder.

Oddly last year Xbox offered a discount on the digital preorder for CFB 26 since I also bought CFB 25, but no such offer this year.

Aggie71013 said:

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It's the same price? How's it a waste of money.

Also sometimes physical have different deals e.g just bought CFB 27 physical from Best Buy and I got a $10 GC with preorder.

Oddly last year Xbox offered a discount on the digital preorder for CFB 26 since I also bought CFB 25, but no such offer this year.

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No idea on price. I just see no reason to buy an empty box for a digitally downloaded game. It's theater.

If they are offering a discount by getting the box or some other incentive then I guess it could be worth it to the consumer. I plead ignorance here since I haven't purchased a physical game in a couple of decades.