The typical splitter loses -3.5 dbi of the original signal to each of the "out" connections according to the splitter mfg. What happens if one turns it around and makes it a "combiner" out of it ie hooking 2 outdoor TV antennas to the two "out" connection and 1 lead into the TV? Nothing? A gain? More loss?

Without knowing any better, i would have said "of course they don't work like that". Apparently they do actually work like that

Seems like you just need to make sure your coax cables are the same length

I'd ask another question --

Are you trying to capture the same signals with both antennas, or are the antennas either (i) aimed in different directions or (ii) are different bandwidths (e.g. one is UHF and one is VHF)?

If you're trying to increase signal strength on a channel by using two of the same antennas (i.e. either a vertical or horizontal stack), you'll double your signal strength (minus about 1.0dbi insertion loss) provided the signals are in phase. To ensure that, you will (as suggested) want to keep your coax lengths the same.

If you're just trying to get different signals (either directionally or bandwidths) you won't increase your signal strength on any one channel and you'll still lose about 1.0dbi as an insertion loss.

I might suggest that if you are combining a UHF antenna and a VHF antenna, go ahead and buy a dedicated combiner that has one port for UHF and one for VHF, or buy an antenna pre-amp that has separate inputs for each. That way you don't have to worry as much about the combined signal having phase issues (UHF antenna will pick up some VHF and vice-versa).

Ribeye-Rare said:

---

I'd ask another question --

Are you trying to capture the same signals with both antennas, or are the antennas either (i) aimed in different directions or (ii) are different bandwidths (e.g. one is UHF and one is VHF)?

If you're trying to increase signal strength on a channel by using two of the same antennas (i.e. either a vertical or horizontal stack), you'll double your signal strength (minus about 1.0dbi insertion loss) provided the signals are in phase. To ensure that, you will (as suggested) want to keep your coax lengths the same.

If you're just trying to get different signals (either directionally or bandwidths) you won't increase your signal strength on any one channel and you'll still lose about 1.0dbi as an insertion loss.

I might suggest that if you are combining a UHF antenna and a VHF antenna, go ahead and buy a dedicated combiner that has one port for UHF and one for VHF, or buy an antenna pre-amp that has separate inputs for each. That way you don't have to worry as much about the combined signal having phase issues (UHF antenna will pick up some VHF and vice-versa).

---

I am wanting to use 2 antennas pointed at 2 different markets. We live in Comal CO in the Spring Branch area. My current single VHF-UHF directional antenna is pointed to the SA market and the predominance of broadcasting stations and towers are down in the Calaveras Lake area about 43 miles away as the crow flies. All three of the major netwoks ABC, NBC and CBS broadcast from the same area. The ABC affiliate, KSAT 12, is broadcast on a hi vhf channel while the other 2 are UHF. When KSAT went to the "Next Generation TV " version they combined with PBS on another tower. CBS and NBC power in kw's are 1000 and 800 from their towers........ABC and KSAT? 28. Alot of college football games are broadcast on KSAT and the signal is very iffy.........too hot, too windy, too cloudy ....zip signal. NBC and CBS come in crystal clear no matter the conditions. The Austin ABC affiliate however is broadcast on a UHF channel at 1000KW.

The SA towers are at 167 degrees S and the Austin towers 45 degrees NE. We could just point the current antenna to the Austin market but we want to keep the SA stations for local news.

I'll look into this more this evening when I have some time, but for now you may want to consider purchasing an ATSC 3.0 Nexgen Tuner to pick up KSAT better.

I know I helped my brother-in-law on an antenna installation in Beaumont targeting the Houston market. Channel 8 (PBS) (broadcasting on VHF 8) was very problematic, despite our concentrated efforts.

Short story -- Channel 8 recently went to Nexgen, and when it did that, they combined with 5 other Houston stations and put their ATSC signal on another tower with much better power. That one tower transmitter now hosts all 5 stations, which is a pretty good trick. Using the ATSC 3.0 Nexgen tuner brought in the channel being broadcast from the new tower. But, without that tuner, he still can't receive Channel 8.

EDIT: You should be in the contour map area for a good signal:

KSAT Area

More: It appears they are only sharing their original low-powered ATSC 1.0 signal with KLRN. Their ATSC 3.0 signal is full power. See:


KSAT ATSC 3.0 Engineering Statement

Ribeye-Rare said:

---

I'll look into this more this evening when I have some time, but for now you may want to consider purchasing an ATSC 3.0 Nexgen Tuner to pick up KSAT better.

I know I helped my brother-in-law on an antenna installation in Beaumont targeting the Houston market. Channel 8 (PBS) (broadcasting on VHF 8) was very problematic, despite our concentrated efforts.

Short story -- Channel 8 recently went to Nexgen, and when it did that, they combined with 5 other Houston stations and put their ATSC signal on another tower with much better power. That one tower transmitter now hosts all 5 stations, which is a pretty good trick. Using the ATSC 3.0 Nexgen tuner brought in the channel being broadcast from the new tower. But, without that tuner, he still can't receive Channel 8.

EDIT: You should be in the contour map area for a good signal:

KSAT Area

More: It appears they are only sharing their original low-powered ATSC 1.0 signal with KLRN. Their ATSC 3.0 signal is full power. See:


KSAT ATSC 3.0 Engineering Statement

---

Earlier today I hooked up the system to a $69 Day Star directional hi vhf/uhf antenna about 19 ft A
G and pointed it directly at 45 degree NE which is where the Austin towers are located and low and be hold after rescanning it picked up all the UHF Austin channels NBC, CBS, PBS, FOX, and others ......AND....... NBC, CBS, Fox, Univision, and several others from the freakin SA towers ay 167 degree ESE down at Calaveras Lake...........no ABC or PBS. Why SA ABC and PBS affiliates are broadcasting on vhf low powered channels I have no idea........ARGHHH!!!

Quote:

---

Why SA ABC and PBS affiliates are broadcasting on vhf low powered channels I have no idea.

---

Basically, the reason is they're transitioning to ATSC 3.0, and their higher power transmitter (78kW ERP) is broadcasting that signal, which your current tuner can't receive.

About the lower-powered signal -- in order to support viewers in the San Antonio market who do not have ATSC 3.0 tuners, they broadcast a legacy low-powered ATSC 1.0 signal.

I would suggest you try a couple of things:

1. Buy an ATSC 3.0 tuner and use your existing antenna that is pointed at San Antonio;

or, if you don't want to do that,

2. Buy an antenna pre-amplifier that will attach to your existing antenna that is pointed at San Antonio;

I can recommend this one, if you're interested:

Televes One Input Antenna Mast Pre-Amplifier

I suspect (but don't know with 100% certainty) that the pre-amplifier will boost your ATSC 1.0 signal from KSAT enough to give you what you want.

Sure, you can fool with two antennas, but unless you just want the Austin stations, you're just asking for more work.

Good luck.

One more thing, since you mentioned it earlier. Comparing the ERP wattages of UHF and VHF signals is comparing apples and oranges. VHF signals (like AM radio compared to FM radio for instance) have a far greater range per ERP watt than do UHF signals.

Ribeye-Rare said:

---

Quote:

---

Why SA ABC and PBS affiliates are broadcasting on vhf low powered channels I have no idea.

---

Basically, the reason is they're transitioning to ATSC 3.0, and their higher power transmitter (78kW ERP) is broadcasting that signal, which your current tuner can't receive.

About the lower-powered signal -- in order to support viewers in the San Antonio market who do not have ATSC 3.0 tuners, they broadcast a legacy low-powered ATSC 1.0 signal.

I would suggest you try a couple of things:

1. Buy an ATSC 3.0 tuner and use your existing antenna that is pointed at San Antonio;

or, if you don't want to do that,

2. Buy an antenna pre-amplifier that will attach to your existing antenna that is pointed at San Antonio;

I can recommend this one, if you're interested:

Televes One Input Antenna Mast Pre-Amplifier

I suspect (but don't know with 100% certainty) that the pre-amplifier will boost your ATSC 1.0 signal from KSAT enough to give you what you want.

Sure, you can fool with two antennas, but unless you just want the Austin stations, you're just asking for more work.

Good luck.

One more thing, since you mentioned it earlier. Comparing the ERP wattages of UHF and VHF signals is comparing apples and oranges. VHF signals (like AM radio compared to FM radio for instance) have a far greater range per ERP watt than do UHF signals.

---

Thanks for your help my friend. I think I'm going to go with the 2 antennas. I'm an old chitkicker that likes western movies and since Univision in SA dropped GRIT I can pick it up on an Austin channel .........and I can brag that I get 81 ota TV stations........even though 80 % are either duplicates or channels I don't watch.....