Time dilation example

2,878 Views | 33 Replies | Last: 10 yr ago by Philip J Fry
MaxNumberOfCharactersIs01
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I put together a model to describe different types of time dilation (relative velocity and gravitational). Can I get feedback on the accuracy of my time dilation example?

Link:
Time dilation example

Position and time were once thought to be absolute. Newton's laws of motion discredit absolute position in space. Einstein's theory of relativity discredits absolute time. The time dilation effect comes from the nature of spacetime.

Time and space are now seen as dynamic quantities with each individual particle, or planet, having its own unique measure of time depending on where and how each is moving.
- The Illustrated A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking, Page 45



In the example link, there are 3 observers with synchronized clocks. 1 observer is on the surface of the earth. 1 observer is in space above the earth. 1 observer has returned from a high-speed space mission.

When regrouping the clocks are different -
Observer 1 surface clock is 12:25. (O1)
Astronaut 1 clock is 12:28. (A1)
Astronaut 2 clock is 12:21. (A2)

Is my example link clear or are there parts of it that need correction or further clarification? The objective is to provide a very simple explanation and example of time dilation.
Duncan Idaho
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All I know is that I couldnt read the text at your link on my phone.
MaxNumberOfCharactersIs01
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Is it readable on your device if you access the article via the following:
http://www.oproot.com > Experiments > Time Dilation Example

kb2001
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Your example is accurate AFAIK
Malachi Constant
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Seems accurate to me.

Try /r/askscience if you want a larger audience.
Duncan Idaho
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Yes
30_Days
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Have you read A Time for the Stars by Robert Heinlein?

the entire book is basically about time dilation and it does an incredible job of explaining it.

Basically humans begin sending starships into deep space that can approach the speed of light. They use paired psychics for communication between the ships and earth and ship-to-ship.

Time dilation causes interesting effects on the way the psychics communicate.

He also explains how a ship traveling near the speed of light would reach a star in, for example 50 years, but for the people on board the ship it might only seem that a few months had passed.
Ulrich
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It's where you follow a link to imgur and 15 minutes later you try to stand up but your legs have fallen asleep and it's 3 am.
SwigAg11
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The Ender's Game series is fine in terms of simply looking at time dilation in general. However, it gets really philosophical in terms of its metaphysical paradigms.
Ulrich
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The Forever War is another one.
bmc13
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quote:
The Forever War is another one.



really liked that one
eric76
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What does this mean?

quote:
Astronaut 1 is in a space shuttle floating in space high above the earth. The shuttle is (1) travelling the same speed as the surface clock relative to the speed of light and (2) is far from the earth's surface, affected by a much lower level of earth's gravity than the surface clocks.

MaxNumberOfCharactersIs01
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It means Astronaut 1 is in a geostationary orbit directly above surface clocks.
eric76
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quote:
It means Astronaut 1 is in a geostationary orbit directly above surface clocks.

And how does the quoted part above convey that?
eric76
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quote:
Astronaut 1 is in a space shuttle floating in space high above the earth. The shuttle is (1) travelling the same speed as the surface clock relative to the speed of light and (2) is far from the earth's surface, affected by a much lower level of earth's gravity than the surface clocks.
Floating?
Travelling the same speed as the surface clock relative to the speed of light?
MaxNumberOfCharactersIs01
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Yes, same speed -
The purpose of the sentence is to try and simplify the explanation of gravitational time dilation without making it convoluted with the inclusion of relative velocity time dilation.

Perhaps a miner with a clock a mile below earth's surface compared to a tall tower with a very high clock would be a better way to explain gravitational time dilation?

Thank you for the feedback - and the book recommendations.
CrottyKid
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How does this relate to the film Interstellar?
MaxNumberOfCharactersIs01
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In Interstellar, when the father "regroups" with the daughter, the ages are significantly different. Also, when landing on the water planet, the astronaut that stayed behind aged at a different rate.
CrottyKid
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So this is supposedly something that actually happens? If you were on Jupiter, you would age slower than I would?
bmc13
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yes, it really happens. it has been empirically verified with clocks and satellites in space
30_Days
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quote:
So this is supposedly something that actually happens? If you were on Jupiter, you would age slower than I would?
this is an interesting question.

Would it also apply if you in orbit of jupiter, say on one of its moons?

I assume it would because you're still within Jupiter's gravitational pull right?
PooDoo
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quote:
So this is supposedly something that actually happens? If you were on Jupiter, you would age slower than I would?


I'm not sure about aging but when I was in school I was always told Jupiter was stupider.
MW03
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I've always thought this was pretty good

Philip J Fry
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So what datum do scientists use to determine the age of the universe? Seems to me that since time is different for different parts of the universe, this would be hard to tack down?
30_Days
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If time slows down as gravity increases, does that mean time becomes infinite as gravity becomes infinite? If so, then wouldn't time at the point and moment of the Big Bang reach infinity as well? Meaning, that instead of the "Big Bang" happening in a matter of fraction of a second it actually happened over a nearly infinite amount of time?

How does gravitational time dilation impact understanding of the Big Bang?
MW03
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Physics - classical, theoretical, or otherwise - break down at a singularity like the Big Bang. It's so dense that it is in all practical effect infinite, meaning that spacetime (and concepts/calculations therefrom) has no meaningful definition there. General and Special Relativity, then, cannot be used to describe what time was like at that moment because they are dependent on defining spacetime.

I should mention that I'm a total tourist when it comes to this stuff, which is to say that I'm regurgitating what I've tried to understand because I am a huge nerd. So an educated tourist maybe, but even that's probably pushing it.
Philip J Fry
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But we say we know what happened seconds after the Big Bang. Is that measured according to earth time or some other time?
Malachi Constant
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Black holes have no matter either. They pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, so to speak.

quote:
Black holes, by contrast, are made fully and solely from warped space and warped time. They contain no matter whatsoever, but they have surfaces called 'event horizons,' or just 'horizons,' through which nothing can escape, not even light.
-Kip Thorne, "The Science of Interstellar"

I can't recommend this book highly enough. Even if you didn't see the movie, the concepts are described by Dr. Thorne in a way that even I could understand.
MW03
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I think the only way you can describe it would be to call it observable time measured in earth seconds.
CrottyKid
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In that video of Adam in the spaceship, the time is measured in terms of the speed of light, right? This is blowing my mind a little. I always knew about this stuff, but I've never stopped and thought really hard about it and spent time trying to understand.
Malachi Constant
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We think as time as progressing at a constant rate, but it does not.
We think of distance of remaining static, but it does not.

The only thing that is actually constant in any and all reference frames is the speed of light. Everything else (time and distance) will stretch or compress to maintain the speed of light.
kb2001
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quote:
In that video of Adam in the spaceship, the time is measured in terms of the speed of light, right? This is blowing my mind a little. I always knew about this stuff, but I've never stopped and thought really hard about it and spent time trying to understand.
It's hard to grasp, because we don't see it with our eyes. All this is happening to us, and is observable with very precise instruments, but the differences are so minute that we can't perceive them on our own.

In the video, the only constant is that light moves at light speed relative to the observer. So the distance the light travels determines the time it takes to get there, but it is different for each observer. Recall that everything about this needs to be thought of in terms of the observer, and the relative position and velocity of the observer. It messes with your mind to think that two people can see the same event in so very different ways, but it's true, and has been proven through experimentation. The Lorentz equations describe these behaviors very specifically
MaxNumberOfCharactersIs01
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quote:
Have you read A Time for the Stars by Robert Heinlein?

After your recommendation, I read it. It was an interesting adventure. I have not read 'The Forever War', but I'll pick it up and read it, also.
RebAg13
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Philip J Fry
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What I have a hard time grasping is the notion that time travels different for the atoms that make up my body than I do.
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