I normally hire engineers, scientists, and technicians. I'll be lucky to get a handful of candidates, especially qualified ones, in our local market.

Just posted for an admin position and got 300 candidates in three days and had to cut it off. I can't even imagine how many good people we'll miss out on because of the sheer volume.

It's been pretty easy to scoff at a lot of situations that you read here, but this is a healthy dose of perspective that does make me realize that not all situations are equal.

That probably doesn't make it feel better if you're on the receiving end of a crappy situation, but maybe just a little bit of insight.

This wasn't sent to me, but was posted elsewhere on line....thought it would go great on this thread.





Some of these companies are ridiculous..

I'll add to that, "reposting" happens at automatic intervals on LinkedIn sometimes.

I wouldn't take that as a signal that you interviewed and are screwed because it's now reposted. I've heard of people getting offers that thought they were dead in the water this way.

20ag07 said:

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I work with a lot of recruiters. Both to hire, and get hired.

They have no idea what scheduling is like. Sometimes we gotta interview in 2 days because somebody else is lined up. Sometimes, it's gonna take 3 weeks to line it up.

The recruiters, be they internal or external, don't always know.

Have some patience.

I'm always wary if an interview needs to be scheduled within the week. And I'm always willing to wait a week to schedule the right candidate.

Typically, if a role is open, a hiring manager is doing double duty. So getting stuff done, and dealing with their recruiter, is going to take days, if not weeks.

Have some chill, bro.

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So busy they cannot call or shoot an email out of common courtesy? No, that is ridiculous and beyond unprofessional-and even lazy. These type of people should not be recruiters and clearly simply cannot handle their job. May be a better fit elsewhere. Probably should take some of their own qualification test to assess their job skills as recruiting may not be a great fit for them, lol.

infinity ag said:

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I disagree.

Maybe in your field, the hiring cycles are long. In mine, things move quickly. If a company is interested, then they get back to you in about 3-4 days max. Anything beyond that, there may be an issue. Either they are too lazy to send a reject email or there is a genuine delay in figuring out next steps.

If I spend my time talking to the company in a professional manner, I expect the same behavior back. I expect them to at a minimum tell me if there is a delay after a reasonable amount of time (max 1 week). If they don't, then I move them aside into my "good bye" list. If it is a company I like and somewhat interested in, I like to give them a few more chances to give me the status on my candidature, so I message the recruiter a few times with a few days in between. A couple of companies have not gotten back to me after the first interview, I just did not bother because I was not interested in them either.

There is no "harassment" going on. Some of you watch too many crime shows. All my messages are 100% polite and respectful.

As of today, I am talking to 9 companies at the same time. A couple, I am not interested in. So things are moving. Offers not coming in yet are not because I sent a message too many. It is just that the market is unbalanced right now with too many candidates and higher competition. There are so many factors like location, salary expectations, experience fit etc etc.

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If this bothers you as much as it appears then you need to be clear and precise when you ask about follow up call/emails. Ask the recruiter what THEIR time frame is for you to follow up. Don't make up your own. They will tell you a reasonable timeframe they are comfortable with. Once you do that then they cannot and will not be upset with you following the timeframe THEY gave you. That is the professional way to keep both parties on the same page and in sync-without wasted time/emails and discomfort for either party.

Keep in mind, you may not like their time frame. It may be longer than you prefer-that is the way it goes and you need to follow it. It is quite likely that they need it that way and it will also give you an indication up front how far out they are looking to actually place someone so there is no miscommunication and anxiety on your end, and no feeling of harassment on theirs.

BadMoonRisin said:

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This wasn't sent to me, but was posted elsewhere on line....thought it would go great on this thread.





Some of these companies are ridiculous..

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Hilarious. The self-importance of some companies is comical!

I had an unfortunate experience today.

Company A found me on Linked and contacted me asking if I was interested in this job that was somewhat strategic in nature for clients of this consulting company. I said yes. Spoke to recruiter. She made me speak to a VP of Delivery. That went really well, he gave me a superb review that the recruiter lady read out to me. Then she made me talk to another guy in a different country. He gave me a thumbs up too. Then the HR lady wrote to me for a call. I said am I still considered, she said absolutely yes. They wanted to do further interviews. Next would be with the COO who was a new hire. Okay, so maybe Friday or Monday. Thursday she emails me that they have to hold off as they are all planning to meet to decide what direction the role would take. So Friday interview would not happen.
Uh-oh. Red flag. If they still were wavering, then it wouldn't end well.
So she emailed me today to say they decided they needed someone "with more current consulting experience".

I had expected it but I was annoyed since they made me do 3 interviews and 2 calls, only to say "it's not you, it's us. We don't know what we are looking for.".

Companies, please stop wasting people's time.

Got a rejection email today from a job I applied to literally two years.

Why do these companies have such slow processes? They're useless.

brutal. It's tough out here.

I interviewed 5x for a software company PM role. Followed up with the recruiter about a week after the final interview "Oh, they are still making decisions, Ill get back to you".

Never heard back now, several months later. I dont mind a "no" but a "**** you" is even worse after having spent about 3-4 hours trying to get the role.

Still havent heard back.

I recently had nine calls, NINE, for a senior leadership role with a Fintech. The final call was with their Chief Client Officer. After nine calls...ghosted. A majority of the discussions centered around the need to grow the leadership within the organization. The irony.

Charpie said:

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I have been pretty fortunate to jump from job to job having one already lined up. But there was a time when I was actively seeking to leave a prior job. I had recruiters call me all the time, sending messages via LinkedIn and the like. There are a couple of rules of thumb that I have figured out from that experience.

• When you complete the final interview, send your thank you to everyone you talk to if you can get their email address. Sell yourself again in that email.
• Wait 2 weeks before the follow-up. Being on the other side of hiring, it is a time consuming process. Two weeks allows them to get through all of the candidates that they are interviewing. In my experience, if they reply to you, they are interested in you.
• I've never experienced a scenario where I was expecting a rejection letter or email. In the tech industry especially. I always assume that they write me off relatively quickly or love me quickly.

I went through 7 rounds of interviews at Google and 5 rounds of interviews at Amazon a few years ago. Google got back to me relatively quickly as did Facebook. Smaller tech companies, I have found, are overwhelmed to do anything. I've been ghosted by recruiters and I never took it personally. You seem eager and likely are off-putting because of your eagerness. Tap the breaks.

Also, I strongly suggest you take some time to do some self-reflection. Your posts come across as arrogant when you mention that you're talking to X amount of companies. That's great. And earlier in the thread you mentioned you were talking to X amount of companies. Yet, you still haven't been hired. When you aren't hired, you could ask them for feedback. And when you get the feedback, TAKE THE ADVICE they are giving you.

Good luck.

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Why should truth be "arrogant"? Everything I say here is the truth. There are times when I get a lot of calls at one go. Earlier this month I had 11 companies I was talking to. Not all of them are good calls, some I just keep alive because I think I'll take a decision on them later. Some are just not good fits. At this point I have 4 companies and 2 final rounds going on (1 I am waiting on a decision). I don't understand what is arrogant about that. In fact it can be the other way, I am still in the market looking, what is arrogant about that?

I asked one company for feedback. They said "you say a lot of "we did", you don't say "I did" so the team was not sure what you did and what the team did". That was after the final round of a job I wanted. I thought if they had any questions, they could have easily asked me. Anyway I kept that in mind and I use more "I" in interviews. I saw someone mention that on Linkedin as well, so maybe it is a good point.

I thought this was a space to share opinions, thoughts, commiserate, rants, to vent out sometimes. When I hear "deal with it" when a company ghosts me, it adds nothing to the conversation.

I don't agree with waiting 2 weeks for a follow-up from 1 round to another. Most companies I talk to have about 4-5 rounds. If you wait 2 weeks to hear back about whether they want to move you forward, the process will take forever. If I don't hear back after more than 10 days between rounds, then it is likely they are not interested and found someone else.

Sims said:

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infinity ag said:

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Charpie said:

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I have been pretty fortunate to jump from job to job having one already lined up. But there was a time when I was actively seeking to leave a prior job. I had recruiters call me all the time, sending messages via LinkedIn and the like. There are a couple of rules of thumb that I have figured out from that experience.

• When you complete the final interview, send your thank you to everyone you talk to if you can get their email address. Sell yourself again in that email.
• Wait 2 weeks before the follow-up. Being on the other side of hiring, it is a time consuming process. Two weeks allows them to get through all of the candidates that they are interviewing. In my experience, if they reply to you, they are interested in you.
• I've never experienced a scenario where I was expecting a rejection letter or email. In the tech industry especially. I always assume that they write me off relatively quickly or love me quickly.

I went through 7 rounds of interviews at Google and 5 rounds of interviews at Amazon a few years ago. Google got back to me relatively quickly as did Facebook. Smaller tech companies, I have found, are overwhelmed to do anything. I've been ghosted by recruiters and I never took it personally. You seem eager and likely are off-putting because of your eagerness. Tap the breaks.

Also, I strongly suggest you take some time to do some self-reflection. Your posts come across as arrogant when you mention that you're talking to X amount of companies. That's great. And earlier in the thread you mentioned you were talking to X amount of companies. Yet, you still haven't been hired. When you aren't hired, you could ask them for feedback. And when you get the feedback, TAKE THE ADVICE they are giving you.

Good luck.

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Why should truth be "arrogant"? Everything I say here is the truth. There are times when I get a lot of calls at one go. Earlier this month I had 11 companies I was talking to. Not all of them are good calls, some I just keep alive because I think I'll take a decision on them later. Some are just not good fits. At this point I have 4 companies and 2 final rounds going on (1 I am waiting on a decision). I don't understand what is arrogant about that. In fact it can be the other way, I am still in the market looking, what is arrogant about that?

I asked one company for feedback. They said "you say a lot of "we did", you don't say "I did" so the team was not sure what you did and what the team did". That was after the final round of a job I wanted. I thought if they had any questions, they could have easily asked me. Anyway I kept that in mind and I use more "I" in interviews. I saw someone mention that on Linkedin as well, so maybe it is a good point.

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You're making a caricature of yourself.

I hated being laid off. I hated the job search. I hated being told one thing and actions show another. You're ignoring a lot of obviously applicable advice. Sometimes biting your tongue and just going along to get along will move you faster than you think. Otherwise, start your own company. The employees I've had in the past that always found something or someone else to blame never lasted over the long term.

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Are you justifying recruiters ghosting candidates? All I am saying is if the company is not interested, then send a canned email and close it. That is the professional thing to do.

Remember, this is an anonymous internet board. I do bite my tongue and go along applying every day interviewing most days of the week. On the side, I post here. I don't just sit and post here all day doing nothing, if that is what you assumed. You are making assumptions and generalizations based on incomplete information.

On looking back, I probably shared more than I should have about my personal situation here.

I want to be able to offer something productive, so I'm going to follow up on my previous post.

I used to work at a very large company that took great pride in efficiency, low levels of bureaucracy, quick decision making etc. Often times, they were anything but that. My trajectory in the company had been great, the man that hired me eventually moved on to the corporate office and recommended me as his replacement to the new a GM at the time. That wasn't the way things went. I butted heads with my new boss who was familiar to our new GM. We butted heads on several occasions where I felt passionately that I was in the right - even a 3rd party observer would have confirmed that but that's not my point. I got passed up for the promotion again after the new guy promoted. I reached out to the man that hired me who was, at this point, sitting in the c-suite at the corporate office. We had a very honest conversation. He encouraged me to look outside of the company if I wanted to move up quickly, he said some of my interactions with his replacement had rubbed some people the wrong way even though, he agreed, I was correct in my summation of the situation and the steps that needed to be taken - ultimately I handled it the wrong way. One thing that he said that really stuck with me is this, and I think it might be helpful in your situation.

"Sometimes, truth is a better shield than it is a sword."

You mentioned that with what you do, you typically don't see the recruiting process drag out like the rest of us do. Just curious what industry you're in. Do you provide more contract/independent consulting type services?

I'm just having a hard time reconciling which industries expect to move quickly in the recruiting process. For my current job, it took over a month to get everything signed and dotted after I accepted. And the actual interview process itself took several weeks including 3 different interviews.

AJ02 said:

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I'm just having a hard time reconciling which industries expect to move quickly in the recruiting process. For my current job, it took over a month to get everything signed and dotted after I accepted. And the actual interview process itself took several weeks including 3 different interviews.

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This. For the last two jobs I had, it took 2 months from the beginning to the offer

This is similar to my last job interview, around 12 years ago.
I had been laid off, was in finance and the job market was still awful post 2008. so I was getting desperate. Had applied to at least 100 jobs, gotten a few interviews and came in runner up a few times, which is crushing. So I now get an interview with a big well known company right before thanksgiving, The interview goes well, three panels and an hour with my would be boss. I am told I should hear something in the next few weeks. I waited til Christmas, emailed them, didn't hear back. Complete silence. I am literally starting to think outside the box on what I will do with my life - Almond farm maybe? Last week of January they called me back and offered me the job. Their "reason" was that the money for the rec got pulled at year end and they had to re-request it first of the year, which took a few weeks, But I was always the one they wanted. I didn't know that my soon to be boss had been canvassing the company for people who had worked with me and had gotten good feedback, I ended up making more there than my previous job. As it turns out, it's one of the best places I've worked, I'm still there several promotions later.
So 2 lessons I guess…first, HR isn't necessarily representative of the corporate culture. And two, you just never know what's really happening behind the scenes.

Charpie said:

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I asked one company for feedback. They said "you say a lot of "we did", you don't say "I did" so the team was not sure what you did and what the team did". That was after the final round of a job I wanted. I thought if they had any questions, they could have easily asked me. Anyway I kept that in mind and I use more "I" in interviews. I saw someone mention that on Linkedin as well, so maybe it is a good point.

How many interviews have you been on and not been hired? You need to get more feedback because you have been rejected a number of times. There has to be a reason why.

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I instead of we isn't real feedback and it isn't the reason you didn't get the job.

But… you need to find a way to get real feedback for sure.

The problem with asking for feedback point blank from an external source or somebody who really barely knows you is that the vast majority of it won't be genuine… like this.

I'd do a couple things in your shoes:

1. If you've gotten rejected for roles you are seemingly qualified for this often… it might not be them… it might be you. Go grab lunch with somebody you trust to be brutally honest who knows you professionally and them for feedback on your professional style. Everybody has ticks and traits that grate others… make sure you are self aware of yours.

2. Similar vein, do the same and mock interview with mentors you might trust. Personal story… I was deemed 'ready' to move into a Sr level job earlier in my career and kept getting asked to apply for them internally and getting rejected for various reasons. Finally, 2 mentors pulled me aside and said I needed to get my **** together when it came to presenting myself. One spent an hour with me laying a template out in how to interview prep that took like an hour of my own time and basically set me up to answer anything and the other just grilled me for 2 hours on how I answered questions stopping me when I went astray etc almost as practice. Highly invaluable insights from both of them and I interviewed with a person who rejected me once and they actually called me after and said they were blown away with how much better I presented myself just 3 months later.

3. Learn how to get feedback in relative real time and interpret it because even real time feedback with those who don't know you well probably won't address the issue directly. Instead of asking for feedback after the fact for instance, maybe at the end of the interview just ask if there's anything you are lacking for the role. You can glean loads of insights to a hiring manager and process by doing this. If they say they can't think of anything… well… what you are dealing with most likely is an open role nobody has put much thought around what they need… if that's the case, expect them not to get back to you quickly. Then whatever they tell you, if it isn't a lack of a technical skill, then you have to learn to read a bit between the lines what they are saying but at minimum you know that they are probably seriously looking and considering an imminent hire because they have thoughts on the question.

Cromagnum said:

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Yeah, the I vs We is bull**** feedback. I've received it both ways. .

"You said I too much, so how are you part of a team?"

"You said we too much so what did you do yourself?"

Both were internal jobs and both times they hired the pre-identified candidate which was the real reason I didn't get a serious look.

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Yeah… you knew those people if it was internal and they still didn't really tell you what the differentiator or blocker was. Illustrates what I'm saying about feedback. 90% of it isn't straightforward or to the point unless it is somebody you have a deeper trusting relationship with. It is important but if you really want it from a 3rd party you don't know very well, you should never just ask 'can I have feedback?' You need to learn to ask the right questions to get it on your own.

I completely disagree.

I have been on both sides of the equation. When I was rejected for the role at Google, they were honest and said, "We are looking for more of a dev manager/product manager hybrid. You don't have the dev manager experience that we were looking for at the compensation we were planning for the role." At Facebook? "You aren't a culture fit." What does that mean? It means that all the people on my team that I would be leading were recent college grads and in their 20's while I've got a ton of experience and I was in my 40's. Facebook came back to me a year later and offered me the exact job with the same team. I respectfully declined.

I've given honest feedback anytime I've been asked for it. Sometimes people aren't a culture fit. Sometimes folks aren't what you are looking for. Heck and sometimes people flat out lie on their resume and we simply tell them, "Your credentials on paper don't match your interview. Work on providing precise answers to questions that are asked about your experience."

Cromagnum said:

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Yeah, the I vs We is bull**** feedback. I've received it both ways. .

"You said I too much, so how are you part of a team?"

"You said we too much so what did you do yourself?"

Both were internal jobs and both times they hired the pre-identified candidate which was the real reason I didn't get a serious look.

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Agreed, that was bs feedback. Chances are the OP was rejected for something completely unrelated to that.

Eh… your post sorta leans in to my point if you take a step back.

The Facebook feedback kinda feeds what I'm talking about. Seems like they said you aren't a cultural fit. That's beating around the bush generalities and not real feedback. You gleaned it had to do with your age relative to your team's which I nearly guarantee you gleaned because I'm pretty sure they can't say that to you. But you probably were able to put it altogether because you asked the right questions and angles to really know the lay of the land.

Google feedback seems a bit more technical which is way easier to give so they told you.

Started a new role in a different industry 2 months ago. I was lucky, from the time I applied to starting my first day was maybe 6 weeks. Love the job so far

Hey friends!

I have some good news to report. I got an offer yesterday!

The initial offer base salary is exactly the same as my previous job, but this one has a bonus too which my previous job did not have. This one is hybrid 3 days a week. I am planning on negotiating about 8% more. Let's see if I am successful. The title is a tad higher than my previous job. The people I interviewed with seemed nice and welcoming/friendly (some people I interviewed with at other company gave me clear bad vibes).

I am on the verge of getting another offer in the Bay Area. The recruiter told me that I am in the final round and those who get to talk to the final round guy are as good as getting an offer. If I get and choose that, I would have to move. I ideally don't want to move right now as my daughter is a junior in HS next year.

There is a bit of a twist. I also got a call to an awesome Bay Area company that allows remote for a Senior Director job (I am not Director yet, though I should be). Lots of cool work they do. Pay is about 25% more than my previous job and current offer. The recruiter contacted me last week and I jumped at the call (before I got my other offer) and spoke to her at 4:30pm that same day. I usually hate evening interviews but I needed to act fast. Told her about my situation with the other company so she scheduled a next round for me on Monday. If that goes well, then a last round and that goes well, the offer. Which kind of puts me in a bind since I have to accept/reject the offer I got in a few days and I have no guarantee that I will get the "dream job". I estimate the earliest I can get this offer (assuming everything goes well) is next Monday.

It's been a struggle and took me 6 months and I have never been unemployed for this long. The market is just crap right now in the tech space. Taught me a lot about companies and how disposable employees are even if you are doing a good job. I now have a plan about preparing for my next job already. I plan on moving to the Bay Area as that is where the jobs and growth is.

My previous employer is looking to sell itself, the news came out recently as I had expected and predicted.

Charpie, you and I seem to be in the same or similar space. Do you do Product Management in the tech sector? Are you in the Bay?