Hello, I am still in the interviewing phase, but I am expecting to be at the offer stage in some weeks (cross fingers).

Can you share your salary negotiation strategy? What do you do to get the most from a company?

I don't bring it up until the Hiring manager or HR asks the usual question(s) in the first or second interview. Depending on how well the job is described in the listing, I may ask to speak directly with the hiring manager since I work in the design side of engineering (Sr. CAD designer) and there are HUGE swings in scope of responsibility from company to company.

Example: If it hasn't been covered, I'll ask if I am expected to work with marketing, lead design meetings and train new designers and junior engineers? If so, that up's my expectations for base salary. If I'm just going to be assisting NPD with gated product release, sustaining changes and customer specials on some of the more advanced custom designs then I will be more open to lower base salary since it's less stressful.

1. My questions I'm comfortable with asking up front:
Is the position straight salary or will I receive a salary plus any overtime required? (Did not ask for an amount)

2. Can you provide a copy of the benefits package for me to review? (Adjust base salary on total compensation... Healthcare plans, 401k matching, etc.)

Their questions:
HR: "what is your current salary"
A: "I can't disclose that because I signed a pre-employment NDA with my current employer."

HR: "well we just want to know a ballpark figure. What are you thinking?"

You should know the total compensation ranges based on education, location, yrs of exp, etc.)
I think 15-30% more than my current base salary is fair in most cases.

A: "Based on the most recent local salary ranges for similar positions, I think $X is reasonable but I am negotiable if it's close."

I feel pretty safe in my current position, so if I'm switching jobs it's going to be for more money and/or better benefits. I'd rather not work for a company that wants to take advantage of employees so I'm not shy about being more forward in interviews. That said, I think it's worth mentioning that I'd be willing to make a lateral move if the right job comes along and offers legitimate opportunity to increase your skills. Experience in valuable roles can be seen as an investment for future positions.

Read a book that touched on it, and here are the highlights:

• Don't negotiate in email. Request a call to discuss.
• Before you come back with a number, ask a series of questions. How flexible are you with base pay? How flexible are you with vacation? yearly bonus target? etc. This allows you to gauge where you should focus on as some places are very firm on certain things and the recruiters tone/response will let you know where to focus.
• Always attach a "why" with the number you throw out, even if it isn't important. I am requesting 10% more because of what we've seen with inflation, to cover some new expenses I'll incur due to the move, etc. Attaching a "why" or "because" to the ask makes it more convincing, even if it isn't a big deal.

My strategy has been this.

Recruiter calls, blah blah, tell me about yourself, job description, work culture etc etc. Then "tell me about your compensation requirements.' That is when I go:

Quote:

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"Why don't you tell me what the salary range for this position, I can tell you if it seems right."

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Most of them say okay and tell me and I usually just say yes, if their top end is a good number above my current salary.

If their top end is below my current, then I probe to see if there is any flexibility since I am "somewhere there". Either they say yes or no. If the job has something amazing that makes me want to pursue then I go ahead, else I discount the job in my mind.

Then they come up with an offer and I end up pulling it up by some amount usually 5-7%.


Does anyone see a problem with this approach?

I would try to avoid negotiating through the recruiter. It's faceless and impersonal. Ideally that is a phone call between you and the person hiring you.

I realize the recruiter wants their payday too - that's between them and the company. But the best ones put you in touch, follow up, foster the relationship, but otherwise stay out of the way when it comes to "business". The recruiter should just be putting the introduction together...they aren't there to broker a deal.

Quote:

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Recruiter calls, blah blah, tell me about yourself, job description, work culture etc etc. Then "tell me about your compensation requirements.' That is when I go, "Why don't you tell me what the salary range for this position, I can tell you if it seems right.". Most of them say okay and tell me and I usually just say yes, if their top end is a good number above my current salary.

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I do this as well with my excuse being that compensation can vary greatly due to retirement contributions, bonus plans, health insurance costs, etc and that a range would be more helpful.

Talk half as much as you want to.

AggieArchitect04 said:

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I would try to avoid negotiating through the recruiter. It's faceless and impersonal. Ideally that is a phone call between you and the person hiring you.

I realize the recruiter wants their payday too - that's between them and the company. But the best ones put you in touch, follow up, foster the relationship, but otherwise stay out of the way when it comes to "business". The recruiter should just be putting the introduction together...they aren't there to broker a deal.

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I was just talking to a startup company in CA for a position and I was found by this recruiting company on Linkedin. They got me in touch with the company and I spoke to the CEO. Interview went superb and he was interested in my work and it matched what they did and he even told me that he would like for me to meet their CTO. Then 2 days later, I get feedback from the recruiter that they decided to "go with another candidate". WTF? Anyway, such is life.
But my point is recruiter is the point person in such cases. In this case the company hired this recruiting company to find someone for the position. I hadn't come to the offer stage yet with them.

AggieArchitect04 said:

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This is what has worked for me…I've more than doubled my salary in less than 2 years. Same industry. Probably underpaid before.

1. I never negotiate with HR. I want to have those conversations with the person who has a vested interest in my coming aboard because you're more likely to play off their desire to hire you. The HR person doesn't care if they hire you or the next guy. My business is different I guess…20 years and I've only ever negotiated with the people that actually own the company. They are the decision-makers and if I win them over they'll tell other company folks (HR) what they're going to pay me and why. I can't see where talking with HR would ever yield the best results.

2. I never give my number first. The first person to give a number loses negotiating power. If you give a number it might very well fall below what they were planning to pay. If your number is too low, it could actually scare them away altogether…"is this guy as good as we think? Does he not understand what we're asking him to do?"

I ask what the pay band is as it's usually never a single value and some companies can have a board range.

I ask for everything upfront…base, benefits, PTO, etc. Then I wait. Even if I already know I take 2-3 days. I tell them I have other interviews/offers. Then I ask if they have time for a phone call. Then I pick what's most important to me and negotiate there, but try to point out what I'm giving up in the process…stability, seniority/tenure, etc.

Always preface your reply/negotiation with gratitude for being considered, offered, etc. It's good form.

All the above assumes you're already employed. If not, and they know you're not…they're already negotiating from a position of power (usually).

NEVER TELL A PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYER WHAT YOU ARE CURRENTLY MAKING. It's none of their business.

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the only thing I'd disagree with of this is the bolded. As someone in supply chain so negotiates for a living and who has been to multiple negotiation courses/classes, you always want the opportunity to set the anchor. That said, you need to do your research to know where you're coming in and you need to come in well above your end goal, but not so high they dismiss you.

Now, if it's your personal preference to not give a number and it's what your comfortable with, that's fine. But the first person to give a number absolutely does not lose negotiating power, often, they gain it.

"We all know the salary surveys show an average of $xx, but as youcan see, I'm well above average."

Sorry. Meant the part I bolded. I agree, what you currently make is irrelevant and no need to tell them that.

I was specifically talking about not giving a number first.

AggieArchitect04 said:

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This is what has worked for me…I've more than doubled my salary in less than 2 years. Same industry. Probably underpaid before.

1. I never negotiate with HR. I want to have those conversations with the person who has a vested interest in my coming aboard because you're more likely to play off their desire to hire you. The HR person doesn't care if they hire you or the next guy. My business is different I guess…20 years and I've only ever negotiated with the people that actually own the company. They are the decision-makers and if I win them over they'll tell other company folks (HR) what they're going to pay me and why. I can't see where talking with HR would ever yield the best results.

2. I never give my number first. The first person to give a number loses negotiating power. If you give a number it might very well fall below what they were planning to pay. If your number is too low, it could actually scare them away altogether…"is this guy as good as we think? Does he not understand what we're asking him to do?"

I ask what the pay band is as it's usually never a single value and some companies can have a board range.

I ask for everything upfront…base, benefits, PTO, etc. Then I wait. Even if I already know I take 2-3 days. I tell them I have other interviews/offers. Then I ask if they have time for a phone call. Then I pick what's most important to me and negotiate there, but try to point out what I'm giving up in the process…stability, seniority/tenure, etc.

Always preface your reply/negotiation with gratitude for being considered, offered, etc. It's good form.

All the above assumes you're already employed. If not, and they know you're not…they're already negotiating from a position of power (usually).

NEVER TELL A PROSPECTIVE EMPLOYER WHAT YOU ARE CURRENTLY MAKING. It's none of their business.

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Never tell them the real number. Tell them a number that's 20-30% higher. Then when you get an offer 15 -20% over that…profit

You may be stuck in a band based on the job title. If you're at $225k you don't know which band you're in.

Thunderstruck xx said:

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You may be stuck in a band based on the job title. If you're at $225k you don't know which band you're in.

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That's the point…asking the the hr folks about band and associated ranges

Noble07 said:

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Read a book that touched on it, and here are the highlights:

• Don't negotiate in email. Request a call to discuss.
• Before you come back with a number, ask a series of questions. How flexible are you with base pay? How flexible are you with vacation? yearly bonus target? etc. This allows you to gauge where you should focus on as some places are very firm on certain things and the recruiters tone/response will let you know where to focus.
• Always attach a "why" with the number you throw out, even if it isn't important. I am requesting 10% more because of what we've seen with inflation, to cover some new expenses I'll incur due to the move, etc. Attaching a "why" or "because" to the ask makes it more convincing, even if it isn't a big deal.

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These are techniques that have been studied in behavioral science as well.

I remember some negotiation teaching material I studied had an exhaustive list of questions to ask in the negotiation phase, I think it wears them down a little bit and gives an impression you're very thorough and have attention to detail, making you stand out and maybe they also realize there are things they haven't thought about that need to be addressed.

I agree on the questions part.

But for the putting a "why", a lot of negotiation books will disagree. You sold yourself during interviews. You obviously did a good job as you got an offer. They should know the why's at this point.

When negotiating a why can often come across as defending your position. The more you defend the weaker it often makes it look.

Also, it opens the door for more rebuttals. For example, if your why is having an mba, but 10 of the final 15 people interviewing had mbas and from more prestigious programs.

People also don't often like silence. The more you talk the more comfortable it'll make them. Simply giving them a number and that's it will make them fill that void. They'll often give valuable information while doing so. Vice versa, if you feel the need to fill the void you'll often give information.

Petrino1 said:

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AggieArchitect04 said:

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I would try to avoid negotiating through the recruiter. It's faceless and impersonal. Ideally that is a phone call between you and the person hiring you.

I realize the recruiter wants their payday too - that's between them and the company. But the best ones put you in touch, follow up, foster the relationship, but otherwise stay out of the way when it comes to "business". The recruiter should just be putting the introduction together...they aren't there to broker a deal.

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This strategy typically doesn't work for large companies with strict offer policies. Hiring managers don't typically come up with the offer amounts.

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These companies suck the life out of their disempowered workforce. You probably wouldn't want to work there anyway.

Delay the salary conversation as long as possible. Let them decide you are the right fit then discuss salary. Just say, that you are open and really looking for the right fit. I say "If we decide this is the right fit for both of us, I am sure we can make the numbers work."

Petrino1 said:

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GrimesCoAg95 said:

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Delay the salary conversation as long as possible. Let them decide you are the right fit then discuss salary. Just say, that you are open and really looking for the right fit. I say "If we decide this is the right fit for both of us, I am sure we can make the numbers work."

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The problem with this method is that once you start to make good money in your career, you will waste your time interviewing with companies who can't afford you. Its best to get the salary convo out of the way in the initial phone call.

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This

This is indeed a risk; however, the other side is true too. If you are 10-15% out of their range, and they think you are perfect for the job, they may increase the budget. If you have the conversation up front, you would probably be disqualified. Additionally when you are making good money, the salary is only part of the conversation. If I loved the company, I might take a lower salary with other benefits such as stock.

Assuming you are dealing with a competent HR group, I just follow their lead. When they ask how much I want, I tell them what I am making and that I am not making a move to make less or the same. That at least sets the bar. From there, you haven't put your nuts on the table, but you have given them something to work with.

Good HR folks do this stuff all the time. You aren't going to out coy them and get ceo pay for technician work. Set a number in your head and when they reach it, or exceed it, accept and be happy. Grinding your mind about maybe leaving two dollars on the table sets up for a bad employment. A new job is supposed to be exciting.

Milwaukees Best Light said:

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Assuming you are dealing with a competent HR group, I just follow their lead. When they ask how much I want, I tell them what I am making and that I am not making a move to make less or the same. That at least sets the bar. From there, you haven't put your nuts on the table, but you have given them something to work with.

Good HR folks do this stuff all the time. You aren't going to out coy them and get ceo pay for technician work. Set a number in your head and when they reach it, or exceed it, accept and be happy. Grinding your mind about maybe leaving two dollars on the table sets up for a bad employment. A new job is supposed to be exciting.

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I would never negotiate with an HR function like this. They are the control function... they aren't against you necessarily but they are almost never going to have the answers you want directly. Most people on this board probably including you have bespoke skillsets that an HR compensation model is never going to value completely fully (especially in high inflationary environments because practically all of their models are backwards looking) so chances are… if you leave it that vague, you aren't going to be getting a number that you like back in return.

You nearly always want the hiring manager to hear your number before HR does because the hiring manager is best placed to get the approvals necessary to pay you what you want within reason in most organizations.

You also aren't demonstrating value doing it this way because the perception in the negotiation could be misconstrued as you don't actually know what your market value is.