There is no hope for people like that. They derive their entire self worth out of suffering and self flagellation for the company. They do this because their personal lives are empty and they romanticize the idea of hustling, even if it's arbitrary.

The biggest thing I have noticed is that they are so set in their ways that another way of managing life is inconceivable to them. It will be pointless to talk to them about it, so use HR instead. Frame it to HR as needing some guidance on vacation policy, but let the message be that you're being retaliated against for trying to actually use a benefit assigned to you. They'll talk to him and then that MF is boxed in.

Funny side story, I worked with a guy like that who was a peer. He has a rod rammed up his ass. I make it a point to just irritate the snot out of him just because he was so insufferable. These guys are so focused on "respecting your elders" that they can't stand having to take input from someone 20 years younger.

Be aware that HR is likely going to be on his team. Be careful going this route.

Agree. HR is not there for the average employee. HR is there to protect their managers.

BrazosDog02 said:

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Be aware that HR is likely going to be on his team. Be careful going this route.

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I gave the guidance the way it needs to be said to HR.

There are definitely horrible bosses out there. Just to add a contrarian point of view…..Are you sure he's not trying to remind you of everything you have outstanding before you take you vacation instead of piling on new tasks?

Troglodyte said:

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There are definitely horrible bosses out there. Just to add a contrarian point of view…..Are you sure he's not trying to remind you of everything you have outstanding before you take you vacation instead of piling on new tasks?

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Sounds to me like he's reminding the OP of how valuable and underpaid he is. Might need to be going to management for a 20% raise before going to HR. Leverage it ?

Then take vacation accordingly and go HR after you've secured it.

Nope. Not at all.

I'd have to be making some serious coin to put up with that nonsense.

Lots of good points. Thanks!

Honestly, a good boss should not only want you to take that vacation but encourage you to do it and make sure you don't need to worry about anything while you're gone. That's how a leader acts.

One time while me and my boss were in a major growth mode and I personally didn't want to miss too many days because I felt like I couldn't risk it, my boss told me "you are the only person getting in the way of taking a vacation."

Ever since that simple conversation I always make sure to take at least a week straight in the summer, many 4-5 day 'weekend' trips, etc. We've also been able to implement the entire office being closed between Christmas and NY as additional days for everyone to have extended breaks.

It's healthy and good for everyone to check out and get away from each other and the work.

I saw this article and thought it was germane. Like posted above, it has some really good advice.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lizryan/2017/10/04/ten-things-never-ever-to-tell-an-insecure-boss/?sh=657f938a1ed1

I can't imagine talking to my boss every day. You should change jobs, man.

It's probably stifling your professional growth. Just being honest.

Anectode...i took Tuesday and Wednesday off to go to my son's college orientation. I told her today I have to take Friday off to drive to houston for my daughters soccer tournament. She 1000% said, take off.

My entire team is off, and she'll feel the brunt of anything with the client.

That is a good boss.

I know. But it isn't that easy. It will take me a long time to find something comparable.

The Chicken Ranch said:

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I know. But it isn't that easy. It will take me a long time to find something comparable.

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It is that easy. What are your values? If you value personal time, a drop in income would be worth it. If you simply value absolutely maximizing your salary, then working 24/7 may be worth it to you.

Is OP trolling?? I'd seriously schedule vacation every year where I am 100% out of touch. Think camping in the mountains. I'd my boss made it a habit to call me after-hours about stupid stuff I might stop taking their calls.

But I would probably NEVER accept a job that provided a company phone that I was expected to answer at all times. And I'd be pretty resentful of him stealing 30-45 minutes of every day of my vacation!

htxag09 said:

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The Chicken Ranch said:

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I know. But it isn't that easy. It will take me a long time to find something comparable.

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It is that easy. What are your values? If you value personal time, a drop in income would be worth it. If you simply value absolutely maximizing your salary, then working 24/7 may be worth it to you.

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No, it isn't for me. I am in a small industry and I really love what I do. I am in a leadership position at my company, and have leadership roles in my industry associations. My struggle is with the personality of how I am being managed. Nevertheless, this thread has really opened my eyes, and I have begun to look around while knowing it may take me some time. I probably have one more move anyway. Everyone's candor has been appreciated!

Combat, I wish it was a troll. But I am totally going to do what you described from now on when I schedule time off - off the grid! That's the only way to deal with it.

The Chicken Ranch said:

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htxag09 said:

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The Chicken Ranch said:

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I know. But it isn't that easy. It will take me a long time to find something comparable.

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It is that easy. What are your values? If you value personal time, a drop in income would be worth it. If you simply value absolutely maximizing your salary, then working 24/7 may be worth it to you.

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No, it isn't for me. I am in a small industry and I really love what I do. I am in a leadership position at my company, and have leadership roles in my industry associations. My struggle is with the personality of how I am being managed. Nevertheless, this thread has really opened my eyes, and I have begun to look around while knowing it may take me some time. I probably have one more move anyway. Everyone's candor has been appreciated!

Combat, I wish it was a troll. But I am totally going to do what you described from now on when I schedule time off - off the grid! That's the only way to deal with it.

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Leverage those leadership roles in industry associations and find a new gig.

The Pilot said:

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The Chicken Ranch said:

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htxag09 said:

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The Chicken Ranch said:

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I know. But it isn't that easy. It will take me a long time to find something comparable.

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It is that easy. What are your values? If you value personal time, a drop in income would be worth it. If you simply value absolutely maximizing your salary, then working 24/7 may be worth it to you.

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No, it isn't for me. I am in a small industry and I really love what I do. I am in a leadership position at my company, and have leadership roles in my industry associations. My struggle is with the personality of how I am being managed. Nevertheless, this thread has really opened my eyes, and I have begun to look around while knowing it may take me some time. I probably have one more move anyway. Everyone's candor has been appreciated!

Combat, I wish it was a troll. But I am totally going to do what you described from now on when I schedule time off - off the grid! That's the only way to deal with it.

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Leverage those leadership roles in industry associations and find a new gig.

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Yes, this. OP's current situation isn't going to get better on its own, nor is it normal.

Luckily, my manager aligns with taking all the vacation you're offered, and any relevant training classes are on company time - not vacation.

$30,000 Millionaire said:

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I can't imagine talking to my boss every day.

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i regularly go 2-3+ weeks without having a true conversation with my boss. we have a team call every two weeks. i text him occasionally if i need something. He lets me run my own business. Matter of fact, last time i spoke to him directly was May 17th. And i only remember that b/c we drinking beers in the suite at a baseball game.

The Chicken Ranch said:

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Does anyone have one of these?

I have a boss that every year starts piling it on as I get close to my scheduled summer vacation and trip with my family that I've had scheduled for months. He acts like it doesn't exist and starts talking about things that he wants us to schedule during that time frame, then I remind him that I'll be out then. Crickets. And he also starts piling on busy work as my time off approaches, stuff that is clearly rabbit hole items, tangents, and unnecessary. This happens each year as I get close to my time off.

Last year when this happened, I point blank asked him if I should cancel my trip and time off with all the things we had "on our plate." He said no, and backed off. But made me pay for it when I got back.

My boss rarely takes time off, and when he does, it's only a day or two at a time. And I typically get several micromanagement calls from him a day when he is out. I've also had him call me and talk to me when I am out, rather lecture and rant about stuff for 30-45 minutes at a time, on my days off when I am on vacation with my family. This year I am going to a place off the grid, and I can see him panicking that he can't call at his will and demand while I am out. Of course, I have a company phone that I am expected to answer at all times, so that complicates things.

What's up with people like this? What is their driver? I've earned my time, scheduled with the blessing, and saved my money for something for my family and I.

Anyone else have an @$$hole boss like this?

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I don't get the part about a company phone that you have to answer when you're on vacation. I know certain jobs require accessibility given your expertise and area of focus, but what, exactly can one do on their vacation? It's a vacation, you should be allowed your time away, or don't approve the vacation. A company needs to have a contingency plan in place for when you are out. That's on the company, not you. Hey, if you own the company than the buck stops with you so it is what it is. But you deserve your time off, fully and completely. I'd have my resume out there at least.

You might sit down with him to discuss the team. Their effectiveness and competency. If you got hit by a bus, the company would need to be able to run without you. You have trained your team to function in your absence. Maybe suggest that you decide with him who the "in-charge contact" person is while you are out of the office on vacation. They can field all of his calls while you are gone, and if they are unable to address something THEN they can call you.

I would have a hard time having this conversation with my boss. But at the same time, my time off is sacrosanct. Call me if it's something that can't be handled without me but don't call me daily. That's not a vacation... that's "working offsite". It would ruin every day.

You can tell him how important it is to you and your family for you to have a week off to unwind and focus only on them. Your role at the company is important to you but your family comes first. Even business owners take time off. Honestly, it seems this guy may have some mental or anxiety issue... he's absolutely not the norm.

Yep. In a prior job, I once got a call from the head honcho on a Friday about the results of a late Thursday afternoon product test when I was off and travelling halfway across the country. Nevermind the fact that he could have asked multiple other people that were there the prior afternoon. He was terrible about assignments, micromanaging, processes, and this was just one example. He could have walked 100 yards in the building to find the answer.

Now, if he had wanted my opinion on the test and project itself that's fine. But it could have easily waited until Monday.

Its not normal.

Any boss that doesn't recognize that earned time off is 'time off' and should be used for R&R and to recharge the batteries....shouldn't be a boss.

I had a boss like that. I saw his face every morning in the mirror. Yep it was me. I never took time off. Never came home early. Went to the clinic on weekends and holidays. Always answered my phone. Made a lot of money. But do you know what else I got?

Missed my son growing up. Missed so much of his childhood that I can never get back. His sporting events, his band concerts, etc, etc. Nope I wasn't there.
Also earned myself a divorce after 30 years and got to part with some of that money I earned.

Luckily my son doesn't hold a grudge and we have a great relationship now. I'm also remarried and have a wonderful wife and life. I learned an expensive but valuable lesson.

Nothing, I repeat nothing, is more important than your family. Don't make the same mistake I did. Take vacations with your family. Stop answering your damn phone when you aren't working. Smell the roses as they say. Money isn't everything.

The Chicken Ranch said:

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I know. But it isn't that easy. It will take me a long time to find something comparable.

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You'd be surprised. I was working 6 (sometimes 7) days a week, 70 hrs/week, commuting 3 hours a day, and working on my days off as recently as last year.

Decided to start looking. I now work 40 hrs/week MAX, from home, with a boss who insists we take vacation, and a significant pay raise.

Had a boss like this, they'd be gone easily 2 weeks a month but the minute one of us took off it was a problem, make back handed comments. Hell, even got mad when a coworker went to a family funeral and didn't return to work the same day

this is not even a discussion for me.

I would be GONE.

if thats how he acts about vacation I can only imagine how he acts day in day out.

I dont care what they are paying you...life is short. Your kids childhood is even shorter.

go get a job offer youre willing to take then tell your boss and then his boss that you need a big change in work environment or youre out of there.

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I've also had him call me and talk to me when I am out, rather lecture and rant about stuff for 30-45 minutes at a time, on my days off when I am on vacation with my family.

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why do you answer his calls when you are out?

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Decided to start looking. I now work 40 hrs/week MAX, from home, with a boss who insists we take vacation, and a significant pay raise.

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been working from home for last 7 years. Its convenient. Since my work is here, I do tend to sit in front of my computer more than the standard working hours (clients on both coasts), but we have an unlimited vacation policy and work life balance is a theme for everyone. I don't feel guilty one bit about heading out to play 18 one afternoon and just cancelling calls or whatever. It is so common in my company. It's full of millennials (which has its downsides for sure), but people message in "they have a headache" and take the rest of the day off type stuff all the time. It's ridiculous.

I don't see how companies mandate working hours and rigorous vacation policies are going to stay competitive. Maybe some industries haven't caught up to this yet.

And I'd argue I don't see how companies who have so much redundancy in their workforce that it's the norm for people to say they have a headache and log off can remain competitive...

There is a balance for sure....

CapCity12thMan said:

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Quote:

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I've also had him call me and talk to me when I am out, rather lecture and rant about stuff for 30-45 minutes at a time, on my days off when I am on vacation with my family.

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why do you answer his calls when you are out?

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Tbh, I'd answer my boss's call when I'm out… but he never calls (even when I'm working), so something major must be happening.

I had a narcissistic ******* of a boss that would make up some reason to need something from me while I was on vacation. These were things for regular meetings that he never asked for previously or again, or he'd ask for a proxy to attend a weekly management meetkng for me only and not any of the other managers when they were out.

It was 100% a manipulation tactic and trying to show power.

Don't put up with that sh*t. Explain who he can go to for specific things when you're out. Anything else will wait until you get back. And then don't answer email or phone when on vacation.

I agree it is a problem....project timelines drag out and therefore we cannot onboard new clients as fast as we could. It is also due to we cannot hire fast enough. We have all the "good problems to have". We're not struggling from being competitive so it isn't an issue right now. If/when things start to tighten up I would imagine some of this flexibility needs to end.

As someone who never takes a sick day, I am fully going to buy into work life balance or doing things for my "mental health". Don't hate the player, hate the game. And before everyone piles on...I work about 50 hrs per week, so if I want to take a Tues afternoon out of the house I can and do. I sometimes like to stay up until 1 or 2am and get stuff done (house is finally quiet) and sleep in if I have no client calls the next morning.

yall hiring?