Job Network
Sponsored by

Coping with job loss

7,634 Views | 25 Replies | Last: 9 yr ago by superunknown
Saltwater Assassin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I know there are quite a few folks that are going through tough times right now, so I am compelled to try & give some encouragement to those that are struggling. If this is not appropriate for this board please remove it with my apologies.

Below is a link to a blog my wife did about coping with job loss; I feel it helps keep things in perspective in times like these. It was written for oilfield wives, but the message works for anyone. I post this in hopes that a few folks might find some comfort in her words.

http://realoilfieldwives.com/2015/01/15/job-loss/
diehard03
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I think there's wisdom in taking some time to grieve the loss like you would a person, if appropriate.
Saltwater Assassin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Completely agree.

A little time to regroup, recharge, & enjoy some family time before the next thing can do wonders.

Make some lemonade out of those lemons if you will.
HollywoodBQ
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
That was a good post. And you need to not be shy and Rule #1 that. Well done Mate!

Seriously though, when I lost my IT job in Denver in 2003, it hurt. Bad. Like your description, I had a mortgage and a mountain (or what I thought was a mountain) of Credit Card debt. I was making $100K and was offered jobs in Denver and The Springs for $60K. I was crushed.

Wound up moving to California for $135K and 11+ years down the road, I live in the Northern Beaches of Sydney, Australia earning well over $200K (I know, the TexAgs minimum wage).

Getting laid off is not the worst thing in the world as it turns out. This too shall pass. What is important is your family and those you care about. That's what's going to get you through. Sometimes even if that is your dad telling you that you shouldn't move to California, you should give up on those high wage jobs and move back to Waco That's all the motivation I need to keep going.
BlackGold
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
That was a good post. And you need to not be shy and Rule #1 that. Well done Mate!

Seriously though, when I lost my IT job in Denver in 2003, it hurt. Bad. Like your description, I had a mortgage and a mountain (or what I thought was a mountain) of Credit Card debt. I was making $100K and was offered jobs in Denver and The Springs for $60K. I was crushed.

Wound up moving to California for $135K and 11+ years down the road, I live in the Northern Beaches of Sydney, Australia earning well over $200K (I know, the TexAgs minimum wage).

Getting laid off is not the worst thing in the world as it turns out. This too shall pass. What is important is your family and those you care about. That's what's going to get you through. Sometimes even if that is your dad telling you that you shouldn't move to California, you should give up on those high wage jobs and move back to Waco That's all the motivation I need to keep going.



Humblebrag a little more.
HollywoodBQ
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Thanks for the vocab word. Don't hate the player

Sometimes, a negative can become a positive. And losing your job isn't the worst thing in the world. Sometimes your hand needs to be forced to take the next step in your career/life. It's very easy to lose sight of that when you get the layoff news.

Now bragging... that would be the fact that I wish I could get my current employer to give me a layoff package. It would be nice to not have to work for a year. And that's miles away from where I was in 2003. If I had never been laid off from my job in Denver, I'd probably be divorced, living in a one bedroom apartment, making $95K if I was lucky and looking forward to the end of child support payments.

It's your life. You can make things happen or you can be a victim. Now, you can't control the price of oil but... you can have a contingency plan.
Saltwater Assassin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Bump
Do right and bear the consequences. -Sam Houston
StarSpeak
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
Seriously though, when I lost my IT job in Denver in 2003, it hurt. Bad. Like your description, I had a mortgage and a mountain (or what I thought was a mountain) of Credit Card debt. I was making $100K and was offered jobs in Denver and The Springs for $60K. I was crushed.

Wound up moving to California for $135K and 11+ years down the road, I live in the Northern Beaches of Sydney, Australia earning well over $200K (I know, the TexAgs minimum wage).
1. What do you do
2. How can I do that

No, I am not joking/wasting your time. Sincerely interested to hear what you say. In IT as well (have MS in MIS from Mays business school).
HollywoodBQ
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
1. What do you do
These days, I run training functions globally for technical folks for a large American multi-national. I've left that a little vague on purpose. But, to answer the second part a little bit, I've got to describe a little more what I used to do which for the timeline of this job loss and job gain example was:
Specialized Computer Storage Systems - Professional Services/Consulting/Installation/Troubleshooting focusing on a particular niche in the Computer Storage industry.
quote:
2. How can I do that
The short story is what a buddy of mine told me about how to get ahead at Dell in the late 1990s. Go find yourself the biggest pile of $h!t and jump right in the middle of it. By the time you've finished sorting it out, everybody will love you.

So, in my case, it takes building experience on top of experience. Taking chances and realizing when is the right time to make a move. Even if you do a Billy "Whiteshoes" Johnson move and go the wrong way down the field, have a plan about how that is going to help you go back upfield. Here's a link in case you're not a Houston Oiler fan from the "Luv Ya Blue" era.

Specialize in something complex and mission critical

Find yourself a business critical need. The uglier the better.
It has to be important to the business and it should be something that frankly, nobody else wants to do.

Examples might be Oracle DBA, SAP Admin, Network Engineer, Security specialist

I raise these as examples because they require advanced skill that builds on top of other skills and these areas are critical to the business.

Avoid anything that can be easily offshored and avoid end users like the plague

You want to be involved in something that if it breaks, the business is severly impacted. Think of it like being a Petrochemical plant operator in Texas City. You want to get overpaid for sitting on your butt 99% of the time because that 1% of the time when you have to do something super-critical, you're there to push the right button. In my case in IT, you're there to apply the right skill in the proper amount to fix the problem in this situation.

You want to stay as far away as you can from desktop support and dealing with end users who essentially can't tie their own shoelaces.

Find something that will be lasting

Just like you want to avoid desktop support, you also want to avoid gadgets. Nobody is paying $90K to hire a Apple iPad Specialist. In fact, I've heard that the Apple Store "Genius" salaries are in the $60K range - and they're - Geniuses. The problem with gadgets is that they come and go so quickly that it's impossible to keep current and each gadget has what amounts to a really short shelf life.

Find some set of technology that will stand the test of time. At this stage in the game, stuff like Oracle, SAP, Microsoft Exchange Server, etc. Those are all here to stay. And frankly, primary storage and servers are here to stay also. Windows is here to stay and so is UNIX however, the flavour has changed from Solaris/IRIX in the 1990s to Linux/AIX in the 2010s.

Get different types of experience

In my business, I've worked on what I call - all 3 sides of the coin. I've worked as:
  • Systems Administrator
  • Professional Services - Consultant, Implementation Specialist
  • Sales Engineer
The way I see it is that all 3 of those roles complement each other.

The Systems Administrator - has to make the products work and gets exposed to real-life business needs. This is really where you can build your subject matter expertise.

The Professional Services Engineer - should know how the products work in practical use but must be flexible enough to be able to adapt his/her knowledge to new businesses who have purchased products in order to accomplish an objective. You have to be very dynamic in this role.

The Sales Engineer - has to be able to convince the customers that his mousetrap is better and should be able to communicate to the Professional Services person about what the expected outcome is. The Sales Engineer also has to have the business acumen and personal skills to be able to defuse a tense situation where the customer was sold a configuration that didn't work or where there is the perception that the customer was mistreated. So, this is like technical skills plus people skills.

Get experience in different geographical areas or different types of businesses

Of course International experience is the hardest to obtain and most rewarding but, there is a mountain of experience to be gained simply by working in a different market or a different industry. In my case, I did exactly the same job at Dell and later at the House of Mouse. The software and hardware packages were slightly different but the desired outcome was exactly the same. The jobs were equally difficult to do but for different reasons. One company was very simple but the scale was the problem. The other company's size wasn't the problem but the level of complexity was 10x what I was used to.

Never turn down a challenge

Now, I'm not saying let yourself get used but... if you don't push yourself beyond what you think you can do, you'll never grow. Once you have achieved things (hopefully under pressure), you'll be very confident that there's nothing you can't do. Future employers will recognize that you're a doer rather than a victim. Keep building on this for a few years and you'll easily surpass "victims" who are 5-10-15 years older than you and have a lot more "experience" on paper anyway.

Don't be afraid to move

I'm not saying that you need to take the opportunity to be a Systems Administrator in Iraq for $300,000/yr (I passed on that one) but, you need to realize that your career growth might not happen in the town that you're living in. There used to be an old boy that I would have drinks with regularly at Gordon Biersch in Burbank. He was from Dallas and had a Texas accent that was thick as... I asked him why he lived in Thousand Oaks and worked in Burbank and he said simply, there was no way he could do what he does back in Dallas. His specialty was visual effects with a software called "Inferno".

I'm going to pause here for a minute... Hope this information helps.
FightingAggie
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Nowhere near that field or specialization here, but wanted to say thanks for the more general points you put down as I think about my own career decisions.
Picard
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Excellent post from HollywoodBQ!

96AgGrad
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Excellent post HollywoodBQ. That's some of the most practical business advice I've ever seen in the span of a page. Wish I had read that when I was 20.
StarSpeak
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Wow, awesome post. Didn't expect that, and am very grateful for you sharing your wisdom.
I agree with what you're saying, and it makes a lot of sense as well. And, I can tell it is thought out.

The problem I run into is no one will hire me, thus implementing your advice becomes a bit of a non-starter at the moment. If that could change... Last interview I went to the company owner basically told me I'm outdated and could serve no purpose, since my last "formal" employment was in 09 as a sys admin ...Just what I wanted to hear after driving 7+ hrs to the coffee shop, everything on my own dime.. well, at this point it's more like penny.

I guess once you're unemployed for more than 6 months, any hopes and dreams are gone. I'm going on 6+ years. What a waste of time higher education was.



c47v3770
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Great info here! thanks for sharing.

I'm currently 27 and looking to get back into IT. Problem is I've been in O&G data mgmt. since graduation and much of my IT experience involves end user/desktop support and some 'intermediate' networking. I actually have a bachelor in MIS... and sometimes I feel I took the wrong career path.

Now I'm thinking it's time to switch back to IT before it's too late. I'm still trying to find my niche and I'm a bit lost on how to re-enter the industry without taking an end user/desktop support gig.

OP, I hope you find a new gig soon!
tamuags08
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Always a fantastic read whenever HollywoodBQ posts on a job thread.

Still in IT myself, but wonder if I should have left SAP Basis just a year and a half ago. The hours were long and the pressure intense, but I enjoyed it in a weird way. I left that job to move back to Texas just before my wife and I had our first kid. I'm now in a BA/PM role with a more normalized work week, but I do miss the technical work.
Ark03
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
The short story is what a buddy of mine told me about how to get ahead at Dell in the late 1990s. Go find yourself the biggest pile of $h!t and jump right in the middle of it. By the time you've finished sorting it out, everybody will love you.

I'm in a career pretty far removed from IT, and this is still excellent advice. Hollywood, I've always appreciated your threads, and similar advice you gave in your layoff thread years ago gave me the extra push I needed to make a leap into an internal move at my company that turned out excellent. I knew just enough about the job to be dangerous, but more importantly I was willing to take on a huge pile of mess that no one else wanted to touch. That's worth gold, both to your employer and everyone who sees your worth, but more importantly, it was such a learning experience for me that the knowledge and acumen it gave me will be worth something anywhere I go.
chjoak
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
Great info here! thanks for sharing.

I'm currently 27 and looking to get back into IT. Problem is I've been in O&G data mgmt. since graduation and much of my IT experience involves end user/desktop support and some 'intermediate' networking. I actually have a bachelor in MIS... and sometimes I feel I took the wrong career path.

Now I'm thinking it's time to switch back to IT before it's too late. I'm still trying to find my niche and I'm a bit lost on how to re-enter the industry without taking an end user/desktop support gig.

OP, I hope you find a new gig soon!
Email is in my profile. Shoot me a message. I work for an O&G software company. Not 100% sure what we have available that would work for you but I may be able to help you out.
chjoak
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
That was a good post. And you need to not be shy and Rule #1 that. Well done Mate!

Seriously though, when I lost my IT job in Denver in 2003, it hurt. Bad. Like your description, I had a mortgage and a mountain (or what I thought was a mountain) of Credit Card debt. I was making $100K and was offered jobs in Denver and The Springs for $60K. I was crushed.

Wound up moving to California for $135K and 11+ years down the road, I live in the Northern Beaches of Sydney, Australia earning well over $200K (I know, the TexAgs minimum wage).

Getting laid off is not the worst thing in the world as it turns out. This too shall pass. What is important is your family and those you care about. That's what's going to get you through. Sometimes even if that is your dad telling you that you shouldn't move to California, you should give up on those high wage jobs and move back to Waco That's all the motivation I need to keep going.
Excellent post. I was laid off about 7 yrs ago. My first thought was panic. After 4 months of job hunting I found my current job. I haven't followed all of the advise in your other post but in 6 yrs I've worked my way into a salary that's 3x what I was making when I was laid off and a significantly better environment. Getting laid off isn't the end of the world. Quite often it can be a good thing if you handle it well.
exp
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I think this is a good thread with some excellent examples of turning a short term negative into a long term positive. I hope to never be in that situation but would definitely try to view it as an opportunity if I was.

I'm reminded of the phrase "good is the enemy of great" and if you're fine enough with your current job, it may prevent you from exploring new opportunities and finding something truly great. Getting laid off, while completely crummy, can be exactly the catalyst you need to be receptive to new doors.
HollywoodBQ
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Thanks for all the love

Over the past few days, there were a few more things I thought about that I should have included. This is actually a reasonably complex problem.

Networking - Obviously the best time to do this is when you have a job. But, even if you don't have a job, spend time making as many connections as you can. What's really valuable is making quality connections. Helping somebody else out at work who you will not necessarily gain any direct benefit from helping. Or seeking the advice of some senior person at work even if you don't necessarily need it. I'm not saying treat work like it's the mafia and you have to pay tribute to the folks who have been there longer but, if you get them involved in the process and they think you're a good/useful person, it could help you out down the road someday.

I just had a situation on Friday where I found out that one of my former colleagues is about to get laid off if he doesn't find a job by the following week. I didn't know that was going on until Friday. I had been approached by somebody else who was looking to hire somebody with his kind of experience about 2 months ago. So, once I found out about my friend's job need, I introduced him to this other guy who needs somebody. I don't know if it will work out but at least, I was able to introduce person A to person C who never would have met otherwise. If you talk to people periodically and maintain relationships, it can frequently pay off when you need it the most.

Family - This is a double edged sword. Frankly, family can either help you or hurt you. I have been very fortunate that I have not had any family who I have had to directly take care of with long-term medical issues or anything like that. This has allowed me to be flexible with the ability to move between jobs and between cities/states/countries.

You need to sit down with your affected family members and prioritize about what is important. Maybe it is that you don't want to move your kid during his/her Senior Year of High School. Maybe it is that you want to take a job with less travel so you can spend more time with the kids. Maybe the kids are reasonably self-suffiicient and you can travel more often.

Also, if you do move away and can no longer make it to church with mom and dad every Sunday or now live too far away to come over for supper every Sunday, don't break your own bank trying to keep living life for the sake of pleasing your parents (and/or friends too). When I lived in California, I remember going back to Texas every other month for some family event or another. I did maintain relationships but, it really cost me a lot of money and frankly that wasn't really acknowledge or appreciated by any of my family members. Even though I was flying in from out of state, we still had to work events around the child custody timings of my redneck cousin.

Definitely the hardest thing with family is overcoming the naysayers who just want you to stay put.

Health/Exercise - When I lost my job in Colorado, I had been on the road for 4 months straight which included 8 consecutive weeks in Chicago. I love food and I love food in Chicago. I had ballooned to 290 lbs when I lost my job. During the next 2 months while I looked for work, I made it a point to:
a. eat less because I couldn't afford much food anyway
b. exercise more because it helped relieve tension

What I found was that taking my Siberian Husky for a 3 mile walk everyday was good for him and good for me. You can only spend so much time during a day making phone calls, cruising job websites, sending out resumes, etc. Taking a solid exercise break made a lot of things better. After 2 months being out of work, I dropped from 290 lbs down to 257 lbs. I felt great and looked much better. Over time I gained the weight back and then lost it again and then gained it back again. But, at least knowing you can do it is well worthwhile.

Mental Attitude - This is just basic advice on WINNING that you would hear from any of your successful professional athletes. Don't doubt yourself and your abilities. Have a positive mental attitude and know why you're going to win. The answer is - because you've worked at it, practiced, rehearsed, etc. And because you believe in yourself.

This is also key to what I call my "Leave no stone unturned" policy. If I'm looking for a job, have I discovered every possible opportunity or did I just type in one keyword and give up when the search returned zero results? Here's a quick example. In my career, my title has usually been "Systems Engineer" or something like that. The word "Analyst" is a word that is typically used to describe someone who is very junior and very inexperienced. Not the type of job I would be pursuing. However, when I got the job at the House of Mouse, Analyst was what they called their senior technical IT staff. So, I could have searched for "Systems Engineer" all day long and been disappointed. But, when a recruiter approached me about an "Analyst" job, I took the time to listen.

I took the time to listen because, I knew that doing someting out of the ordinary might be what was required to "win". I never doubted myself or my abilities, I just kept charging ahead for 2 months until something hit.

Look for Something New - A couple of folks have mentioned that they're in IT but are struggling and aren't sure how to go forward.

Here's something I've observed over the past 19 years of being in IT. There are always waves, trends, new technologies. Some of them grow legs and begin to walk.

When these technologies are new, many times, NOBODY has any experience with them. And often times when they're new, the most knowledge is kept in enthusiast communities online somewhere. My advice is to find one of these new technologies that looks like it will be worthwhile and jump into it with one of the communities working on it.

Current examples might be - "Data Lakes" or Hadoop or OpenStack. You don't have to be a super expert but if you can become knowledgeable about some of these systems, you'll be miles ahead of your peers who might also be applying for one of these emerging jobs. Now the question is - 5 years from now, will anybody be using Hadoop or will anybody have ever heard of OpenStack or "Data Lakes"? The answer is, I don't know but, they will probably catch hold in some niche and the experience you gain from self-education about them will pay off and can help you move into some better role than the one you have now.

A funny story with a similar scenario is my little brother who graduated from Baylor in 2005 and has done nothing except work minimum wage jobs ever since. My brother asked me what were the hot topics in IT if he was intereseted in starting his own business or something like that. In 2005, I told him that he should look into Server Virtualization and go pick up a certification in VMware. Of course he didn't do this but, I ocassionally think about how much different his life could have been if he now had 10 years of VMware experience under his belt.
xfactor91
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Been out for 3 months today.

Went and played golf...shot 77.

I can't find anything anywhere, and I have about given up finding a job. Decently smart, have MS degree from A&M in science, can program my ass off, know SQL like the back of my hand, teaching myself Panda/R.

Yet nothing...no one wants to hire a 46 year old.

Playing golf again. Anyone wants to join me on the NW side of Houston let me know.

txagwx \*/ yahoo.com
SecoKid
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
quote:
Wow, awesome post. Didn't expect that, and am very grateful for you sharing your wisdom.
I agree with what you're saying, and it makes a lot of sense as well. And, I can tell it is thought out.

The problem I run into is no one will hire me, thus implementing your advice becomes a bit of a non-starter at the moment. If that could change... Last interview I went to the company owner basically told me I'm outdated and could serve no purpose, since my last "formal" employment was in 09 as a sys admin before becoming a self-employed IT consultant (hey, that checks off two of your boxes!). Just what I wanted to hear after driving 7+ hrs to the coffee shop. But, at least he was willing to talk to me, even if he wasn't helpful.

If anyone or HollywoodBQ have managed to recover from a state of being perceived as permanently unemployable (especially in the new economy) please add to this conversation. Let's keep this thread hot!

Eric

p.s. They really pay warzone admins 300k? That is... well, honestly a tempting thought. Could get some of that tax money back, too.
If you are willing to move to San Antonio or possibly Austin, my wife works at a tech company and they always have trouble finding qualified people. Shoot me your resume and I'll send it her.
AggieHMF
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Wxman2005 - If you're in the Dallas area, we may be interested in someone with your level of coding and SQL experience. We just brought on a guy after 35 years with RadioShack so clearly age isn't an issue for us. We need seasoned people!

hmfdillon at gmail dot com
Company is a marketing services provider focused on strategic communications
superunknown
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Any of you IT/programming types OK with relocation? My company is seemingly always looking for database engineer/admins, programmers (C++ for sure, SQL experience for sure, Server a plus, Delphi a plus - note, I am NOT a programmer and don't even know if those make sense or should be lumped together, they're just listed under qualifications for some of the jobs we have open) but those positions are not located in Texas. We have positions in NY, SF, Seattle and others.
xfactor91
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Where else are your positions? Thanks.
chjoak
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
wxman - send me your resume (in my profile). No guarantees we have something open but if so I may be able to help you out.
superunknown
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
For the programming ones it could also include Vancouver, WA and Sweden.
Refresh
Page 1 of 1
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.