So here it goes, I will graduate from law school this December (law review member, top 10% of my class, etc..) and I have two possible employment opportunities with either an Oil and Gas Operator (as an In-House Landman) or with BIGLAW. I hated working for BIGLAW. It truly was the most depressing and awful experience of my life. It really made me realize that going to law school was the worst decision I have ever made. However, I loved working in the land department for the Oil and Gas Operator. From what I understand the starting salaries for each were as follows: Operator (70k + bonus) and BIGLAW (100K + bonus).

However, If both opportunities fall through I'm either going to try working as an independent/field landman or just try and find work as a roughneck/entry level worker for an oil field service company or something and just say forget law related jobs all together. The main reason being is that I have found that salaries for new law graduates, for jobs other than BIGLAW or Oil and Gas related, are ridiculously low (like 40-50k) and I have school loans I have to pay back.

If you were me and both opportunities fell through, what would you do? Be an independent landman? Roughneck while earning an engineering degree online? Which has better career prospects and/or salary? Work/Life Balance? I know this might sound extreme but I'm not okay with making 60-70k for the rest of my life with a craplaw job. If making good money in the oilfield means not using my law degree all together, I'm fine with that.

Landman. Roughnecking is hard physical labor, it's really no contest. Lot's of landmen are lawyers, and you'll have great opportunities as you get experience.

Yeh.... I've just heard so many stories about the crazy money that rough necks make within a few years or in the long term after developing experience (example: 1st year rough neck making 110k working offshore or 10+ year rough neck turned drilling superintendent making 250k (overseas)). These might have been exaggerated stories but they are ones I've heard first hand. I've never heard of any landmen making that much money long term.

I highly doubt 1st year roughnecks are making 6 figures. On a land rig I'd guess they start out at $15-20/hr, offshore I'm not quite sure. To roughneck offshore you'd probably have to start out as a roustabout before working your way up to roughneck.

Most drilling superintendents are old dudes with a ton of experience, not just any yahoo with 10 years throwing tongs under their belts. The basic progression of a rig crew is: roustabout<floor hand<motor man<derrickman<assistant driller<driller<toolpusher. After that a toolpusher might become an OIM (if offshore) or go independent as a contract drilling supervisor (company man). Many, if not most drilling superintendents are former company men. This is just one common possibility, there are many paths that lead to the same job. Onshore US, company men make around $1500/day roughly.

If you're interested in long term potential, landman still has the biggest upside. You'll learn the "business" side of the biz, and potentially gain the knowledge to go out on your own and start putting deals together.

Thanks for the info Bird Dog.


Anyone else want to comment?

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...I'm not okay with making 60-70k for the rest of my life ...

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I would take 60-70K. Just sayin' ... I guess its all perspective, right?

Thats a little out of context. I said . . . "I'm not okay with making 60-70k for the rest of my life with a craplaw job." I also would take 60-70k. I'm not saying thats bad money because it's not. Perhaps I should have clarified. I was referring to making that salary in a craplaw job (a job that I would absolute hate). I know several attorneys that make this much or more in extremely stressful/high billable hour requirement legal jobs and every time I talk with them they sound clinically depressed/borderline suicidal. If I made less than 70k in a job that I actually liked I would take it in a heartbeat. That's why I asked about roughnecking and hoping to transition into something engineering related after gaining experience. I think I would enjoy something related to that (I have taken several career placement tests since starting law school and just about all of them had chemical/mechanical engineering as my top jobs for my personality/interests). Now I feel like I'm getting off topic....




Anyone else have any advice?

I work for an offshore drilling company, and while the salaries you quoted are fairly accurate, it is extremely tough to get an entry level job offshore with no previous experience. Or you will have to know someone who can get you in, which is also tough. Also, you will have to really be good and lucky at your job to work your way up to the big money salaries.

I would go the landman route if I were in your shoes.

If you want to go the Rough Neck route, try and find a contractor that has a Fast Track Program.

No need to try and go up the drilling side traditionally if you have a college degree. You can be a shore based Assistant Asset Manager in five years if you show the right skill during your time in the Fast Track Programs.

It's hard times in the offshore market right now, but look into the following companies: Ensco, Diamond, Seadrill, Maersk Drilling, Noble, Rowan, etc..

Big Law only paid you $100k? That seems really low, are you in North Carolina or something?

Go Big Law, suck it up for a year or two and then go do whatever you want

How much law school debt do you have? It's worth sucking it up and doing Big Law if it means you can get your loans paid off in 2 to 3 years vs. 10 years.

Transitioning from Big Law to in-house is pretty common but you rarely if ever hear of attorney with only in-house experience going Big Law later in their career.

Also, I agree with Neach. A $100K isn't exactly considered Big Law these days.

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Big Law only paid you $100k? That seems really low, are you in North Carolina or something?

Go Big Law, suck it up for a year or two and then go do whatever you want

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All of the above. The first couple of years of being a lawyer really suck. Now I'm a 5th year and have lots of control over my own life. Can you at least hint at the firm you'll be working for? For reference, BigLaw in Houston starts 1st years at $160k.

I think you're getting some pretty good advice here, I don't have much to add there.

I am interested to hear what made you go to Law School in the first place, did you consider ejecting from that at any point, etc.

I'm just a dumb HR guy, but I read all of these law school vs. no law school discussions on TexAgs and am just intrigued about the current state of law schools, career prospects, etc.

I thought biglaw was $160k+bonus-soul.

Evenstill, I'd suggest sucking it up and going biglaw for a few years if you have that opportunity due to the doors it will open up in the future.

Go big law, network and gain experience, then decide from there. Oh, and to go from roughneck to engineer, you need an engineering degree. You might could get on with a vendor and be a salesmen/get somewhat involved in a design process, but to do more than that you will need an engineering degree.

There is no reason to pigeonhole yourself right out of law school in a volatile industry, ESPECIALLY if you go the roughneck route since they are hit hardest by busts. Make your 100k, pay down loans aggressively, then reevaluate in 2-5 years.

I say this as a petroleum engineer who loves my job, but realizes I'm hyper-focused on one specialty.

Blew out my lower back while roughnecking during the summer. Still dealing with it 20 years later.

Landman.

As far as pairing work with earning an engineering degree, I would think you're value comes from being a lawyer and an engineer, especially if you're thinking about ChemE or ME (patent law, etc).

Never roughnecked but have sat on rigs. Watching those guys work day after day...i couldn't imagine trying to go home and have the energy to work through heat-transfer or dynamics problems. That just sounds like a whole other circle of hell

Thanks to all of the responders.

To address a few questions....

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...Big Law only paid you $100k? That seems really low, are you in North Carolina or something...

...Also, I agree with Neach. A $100K isn't exactly considered Big Law these days...

...For reference, BigLaw in Houston starts 1st years at $160k...

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All I'm going to say is that I'm neither in Texas or North Carolina. Also, I probably should not have said BIGLAW. It would have been better to say MIDLAW. The firm isn't a Baker McKenzie, Skadden Arps, or Latham and Watkins or anything but there are over 100 attorneys in the firm. To me thats pretty big. Again, I know that that is no where near the size of the firms listed above.

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How much law school debt do you have?

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Around 75k. However, I'm a very frugal person and I have already mapped out how to pay it off in a few years.

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I am interested to hear what made you go to Law School in the first place, did you consider ejecting from that at any point, etc.

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There were a bunch of reasons why I decided to go to law school but the icing on the cake was the combination of (1) filling out one hundred job applications after undergrad graduation and getting zero call backs/interviews etc and (2) having to move back in with my parents because the only thing I could find was basically a minimum wage job. Looking back on it, most if not all of my reasons to go to law school were terrible reasons.

I had pretty much made up my mind during my third semester that I was going to quit due to a number of reasons (seeing first hand the lack of market for new lawyers (in some cases even ones graduating at the very very top of their class), I just didn't like it, worked a few internships and found the work to be extremely boring and/or frustrating, etc... and many many more reasons), but I got a larger academic scholarship that would pay for most of the rest of my school costs. So I decided to stick it out because I didn't really have a whole lot going for me anyways... I don't want to write a book about the reasons why law school is a bad decision, but I will basically second all of the other reasons that are frequently found in a lot of anti-law school websites/forums.


Thanks to everyone for their comments.






Anyone know of any good brokerages for new landmen? I would be more than willing to work anywhere (eagleford, marcellus, utica, bakken)... Thanks

How about doing land, get the engineering degree part time, then do patent law?

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Anyone know of any good brokerages for new landmen?

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Not sure what their status is on staffing, but a client I'm working for uses Hilliard Energy (Midland/Permian). We work directly with Hilliard's landmen; seem like good guys. Downside is it's in Midland

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