I really have no clue on Northwest Mutual in particular, but I think most people get a bad taste in their mouth about insurance people pimping their products as investments. It's understandable. That doesn't necessarily indict anyone on this thread.

I'm interviewing with NMFN tomorrow. Anyone still currently with them have time to shoot an email/AIM with some questions? I've researched them quite a bit, but personal experiences are always better preparation in my opinion.

email is in profile.

Thanks for your time.


[This message has been edited by atxaggie (edited 9/18/2008 11:02a).]

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insurance people pimping their products as investments

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What are you talking about?

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What are you talking about?

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When you say that it is almost believable.

Why is it so hard for ya'll to understand that not everyone is on their knees for your company.

[This message has been edited by NastyNate (edited 9/18/2008 4:22p).]

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Why is it so hard for ya'll to understand that not everyone is on their knees for your company.

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There's a huge difference between not being on your knees for a company and a company being a joke. As I stated earlier, everyone is absolutely entitled to his or her own opinion. I am curious why a company with the aforementioned accolades is a "joke" in your eyes.

In the same way that USC has recently dominated college football lately, I really don’t care for them. That’s my opinion. Would it be reasonable for me to call their football program a joke? I think not.

I have never met an agent that confuses (or diguises) insurance products for investments. The only thing that crosses the two is variable life insurance, as it is invested in mutual funds, it is an investment and an insurance product, and all financial advisors sell that.

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In the same way that USC has recently dominated college football lately, I really don’t care for them. That’s my opinion. Would it be reasonable for me to call their football program a joke? I think not.

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Wow, good analogy.

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and all financial advisors sell that.

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They don't sell them like ya'll do.

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In the same way that USC has recently dominated college football lately, I really don’t care for them. That’s my opinion. Would it be reasonable for me to call their football program a joke? I think not.

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Wow, good analogy.

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You're right. USC hasn't been #1 every year for the past 25 years. I guess there just isn't a good analogy.

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They don't sell them like ya'll do.

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Ummm, ok.

Nobody can shine in the Variable Life Insurance market because of the fact that it is variable... and tied to the market. When it comes to permanent insurance that is where Northwestern Mutual is the gold standard. Nate obviously Northwestern has many passionate employees that feel the same way I do about it. Just because you did not care for the company or the industry does not mean you have the right to bash one of the strongest and most respected in it. btw.. I did like the football analogy.

Man, ya'll really are insurance salesmen.

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Man, ya'll really are insurance salesmen.

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Thank you captain obvious.

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Man, ya'll really are insurance salesmen.

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And proud of it. But that is just how you get your feet wet. You eventually become a Financial Advisor... many choose to get their CLU, CFP, ChFC, etc... certifications.

I'm going to try to explain this so that you can understand it. I work at a company that is similar to NMFN...I think, and I could be wrong in my comparison, but we have a bit more backing on the investment side. But we sell both insurance and investments.

Starting out in the career, investments won't carry you unless you create tons of smaller accounts (start a rolling book of people funding ROTH IRA's) or you just get lucky and land a few substantially large accounts (7 figure). For most in our job, this doesn't happen. So we lean toward life insurance which pays us more per dollar spent than investments ever will.

We are in sales and the product that keeps you afloat early in your career is life insurance.

And not to beat a dead horse, but I have no idea what you could be referring to when you say 'insurance disguised as investments'. My 'investment' book is through the largest and most respected broker-dealer worldwide and is completely, 100% separated from insurance. There are agents that present variable life as an investment, I'm sure, but they won't be doing this for very long.

To the original poster and Nick as well...I have heard nothing but good things about NMFN. The few people I've met who work there have done very well and I really have a lot of respect for the way they conduct business. I can't speak for the training or anything like that, but the people they hire are usually top notch. Good luck.

Thanks for the kind words, investor. I, too, know several guys that work at your firm and they are top notch as well. It's obvious that you have a healthy conviction about the work you do and who you're with and the same holds true for anyone at NMFN. Competition is extremely healthy and it only breeds better products and better service.

The term "insurance salesman" generally has a negative stigma and probably rightfully so. There are some sleezy people and sleezy companies in the world we live in. I can tell you without a doubt, NMFN is not one of those companies. Despite the stigma, I can tell you that I am very proud to sell life insurance. I am early in my career so I have not paid a claim, but I know that day will come sooner than I want it to. Because of that, no matter which direction my career goes, insurance will always be a core piece of my practice.

Honestly, I had that feeling of a 'sleezy' salesman in my first years.

Unfortunately, I have had to settle not one, but 2 death claims that were completely unexpected.

You have a different conviction in your work after that.

I interviewed with the Westlake branch in college and came away with a really poor impression of the company. Very much a used-car sales pitch, and I was asked about 5-10 names, too. I walked out feeling slimy.

This thread has gone off point why I believe working for a company such as NM is not desirable- the primary product they push!! Whole life insurance is generally a bad investment! Meanwhile, they want you to push this bad investment on your friends and family. My best friend straight out college about once a week tried to tell me why I needed whole life insurance. Hell, at the time I didn't even need short term life! Personally, I would hate to work in a business selling a product I do not believe in (to those that believe in & sell whole life insurance, that's a very good thing for you)

I will say if you want to work in the business, there is no finer company to work for than NM.


[This message has been edited by Aston04 (edited 9/20/2008 12:24a).]

I interviewed with the Westlake Branch (Mopac and Bee Caves Road) yesterday and I came out with a very positive vibe about the company. No such used car pitch or mention of providing 5-10 names for market research.

I'm sure that will come up eventually, but if you are hesitant to do it, you would probably not feel comfortable with this career.

It's not for everyone. No big deal.

[This message has been edited by atxaggie (edited 9/20/2008 10:52a).]

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Whole life insurance is generally a bad investment!

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Exactly. Watch out, soon the insurance salesmen will close in on this comment. If you want to avoid that then go to wikipedia and read about NM because they will repeat it word for word.

Just kidding around with you guys. I'm an accountant, so I'm used to a little professional ribbing.

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Whole life insurance is generally a bad investment!

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That is where you are wrong my friend.. whole life insurance is insurance, not an investment. That is also why insurance, specifically whole life, gets a bad rap, because people sell it as an investment. It is an insurance policy that allows you to accumulate cash in a tax efficient manner and is creditor protected in the state of Texas. It is not for the commmon man (Nasty and friends), rather it is for the wealthy who have exhausted all other forms putting money away in a tax efficient manner. Good day.

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rather it is for the wealthy who have exhausted all other forms putting money away in a tax efficient manner

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I planned on staying out of this thread after my last post but I can't let this statement go.

This is absolutely the BS that NM tries to feed people. What you should have said is "it is for people that we will convince need to put money in this BS tax shelter that will do absolutely nothing for them compaired to the many other options available." Seriously this is why I can't stand you insurance salesmen who feed this crap to people and are not exercising your fiduciary responsibility to them but rather the crap that NM has you sell them.

You contradicted yourself in your statement also. Saying it isn't an investment and then saying that it is good for wealthy people to use as a tax shelter. Investing for tax purposes is an INVESTMENT. NM sells whole life as an investment and please don't try to sell your crap on here the same way you do to your uninformed clients. Offer any rebuttel you wish but I am done debating on this thread because obviously only going to repeat what NM tells you.

Are you suggesting that the wealthy are easily manipulated by insurance salespeople? Come on...

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Investing for tax purposes is an INVESTMENT

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You are right Nate.. whole life is for all people if they wish to purchase it. However, in my practice that is the crowd I feel it is most suitable for (i.e. Estate Planning needs, creditor protection for doctors, etc...). The young couple who is indebted and struggling to get by does not need whole life insurance. But like I said above, I do not present whole life as an investment nor should any other Northwestern agent. It is a good vehicle that allows people to store money in a tax sheltered environment, but it is not an investment. I am not trying to sell anything to anyone on here, I am just defending my company and the attacks you thrust upon it. Don't get mad because you aren't a candidate for whole life... go listen to Dave Ramsey and I am sure you can get all the financial advice you need.

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"it is for people that we will convince need to put money in this BS tax shelter that will do absolutely nothing for them compaired to the many other options available."

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I will win that battle everyday based upon facts, not baseless claims from the ignorant (Nate).

[This message has been edited by BigNastyNate (edited 9/23/2008 11:38a).]

Nate -

I can't tell if you're just pissed off at the industry or you're just THAT ignorant, but you really need to be set straight on a few things.

There is no way to deny the tax benefits of cash value life insurance. These are facts, not opinions.

To be honest though, where I disagree with Big Nate is between whole life and variable universal life. This is a discussion that we can have offline so as to not hijack this thread, but I'll continue.

I always say you have to be 'wealthy and healthy' to make CVLI work the way it's supposed to. If you're unhealthy, the costs within the policy start to drag down the cash value in the long run.

I don't present it as an option to everyone, but when you're dealing with people who max out their 401k's, IRA's, etc. in February, there aren't many options (that you alluded to) that will allow them to:

1) put away as much as they want
2) grow it tax-free
3) access it tax free at distribution and
4) have access to it before they turn age 59.5 without paying a 10% penalty.

Is it for everyone, certainly not. But for the few people that this is a concern for there is no better option. There is a possibility that the rules will change if Obama is elected, but this is how it stands as of today.

The reason Dave Ramsey is so against CVLI is because of the listener population he has. How many people follow Dave Ramsey have the needs I listed earlier? Most are up to their elbows in debt, making $40-50k each per year and can barely stay afloat. For these people, CVLI is TERRIBLE.

There are no $300k and up individuals that listen to Dave Ramsey unless they have absolutely no clue how to manage their debt.

Well, some wealthy people probably listen to Dave Ramsey for pure entertainment.

There is no job lower than a job that is based on commission. When a company asks you if you can go 6 months with no income RUN!

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When a company asks you if you can go 6 months with no income RUN!

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I'm not arguing but I do have a question...does the same advice apply to people who leave a salaried job to start their own business?

Most business-owners don't make any money early on.

As a policy owner through NMFN, I will just say that at no time was whole life ever pushed on my by my advisor. In fact he straight up told me I didn't need it, and he wouldn't recommend it for my situation, and I am not in Dave Ramsey's target audience either. I own two term life policies, one on me and one on my wife. There are going to be salesman who suck no matter what industry you look at.

Bump