When your students actually write "it's a good thing I can grade exclude this class" for exam answers, and several get 5's (yes, that's out of 100) on their exams, it confirms your fears about what this policy would do to the fish work ethic.

Q drop should extend to the final day of classes, and there should be no grade exclusion. That's my stand.

We got test grades from our midterm in one class just this week, and yes that was the only test we've had all semester. Kinda hard to know if you need to Q drop if you have no idea where you're at.

I am not a fan of grade exclusion. They should alter the Q-drop policy to the end of the semester and keep only the 3.

Another idea I have is if you fail a class and have to repeat it, the failing grade gets replaced with the new grade once you have retaken the class and the failing grade goes away. You should only get one of these and it only counts if you retake the class at A&M(no transfer credit to replace it allowed).

They're making a HUGE mistake.

The grade still shows up on your transcript with a "#" next to it denoting grade exclusion.

Grade exclusion is stupid.

Yep. I'm not the brightest guy in the world, but I made it through A&M in 4 years and a Summer without failing a class or using a single q-drop. It sucked sticking out low grades (not dropping), hoping that you'll be able to pull them up in the end, only to have to bust ass not to fail while knowing that the "D" I was sure to receive meant the class would have to be re-taken.

Why did they do this? It seems like a complete waist of administrative resources.

Whats the difference if you just figure your grade without the lowest ones in there? The dam thing still shows up on your transcript and you still look like a ****** to your future employer.

Grade exclusion is the worst thing ever. Also, you should have only 1 Q drop, not 3 like I had(I used none of them). If you can't cut it, you need to step it up or go to another school.

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Why did they do this?

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There was a survey about it in the 2005 spring elections: The proposal won 61%-18%. I, of course, was against it.

(Of course, as the classes of '02-'05 are well aware, student opinion doesn't dictate university policy.)

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Also, you should have only 1 Q drop, not 3 like I had(I used none of them). If you can't cut it, you need to step it up or go to another school.

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I disagree. I didn't use any Q-drops at my time there, but when I was a biology major, I thought about it. I had profs that didn't give a rats ass how well anybody did in their class. I had one prof who's tests were worth 150pts, and if you made a 30, you passed. You'd be suprised on how many people failed. And this wasn't a freshman weed out class either. I walked out of A&M w/o failing a class, but came close a couple of times and was able to get a decent grade on the curve.

Im for them simply because it enables fish to try all sorts of different classes in trying to find a major thats right for them.

It's a big de-motivater. I have many students come in while there's still plenty of time in the semester, and they admit they've stopped going to class because they're just going to exclude it. I tell them that the grade will still show up...and that yes, their parents will see they made an F in that course. I tell them to use it as a last resort, not a safety net...but they don't listen.

I made a D in a freshman course and repeated for a B, but I won't be excluding it because by the time I graduated it won't make that much of a difference anyway.

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Im for them simply because it enables fish to try all sorts of different classes in trying to find a major thats right for them.

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Thats the excuse that the university is hiding behind.
As stated in Vision 20/20:

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The goal of Vision 2020 is to continue the academic evolution of Texas A&M University so it is generally considered one of the ten best public universities in America by 2020,...

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This is just a way to pad the universities overall GPA and move up in ranking. I love the idea of being one of the top ten schools, academically, in America, but thats the wrong way to go about it.

[This message has been edited by nkaechler (edited 4/28/2006 5:00p).]

Why doesnt the university put more money into finding decent professors instead of finding ways fix the problem via grade exclusions?

There is no student at the university that cannot make a good grade in a class with a good professor and studying. Yes, there are MANY profs that suck hard. They are the ones that the university keeps around for research..."oh, thats Dr. D*ckmunch, heis primary goal is to find out some useless crap in the name of science that no once cares about."

You do have to keep in mind that this is a top research university. I have been fortunate and have not in my opinion had a "bad" professor. I made my D because I didn't study hard enough my first semester. I was not used to studying in high school and of course me being a dumbass at the time thought I could do the same in college. If they want to do grade exclusion, only allow it for the 1st semester for one class and completely wipe it off your record.

The best advice I've ever gotten came from my advisor. She told me "if you want it bad enough then put in the work and you'll almost always succeed". I realized I wanted to continue in my major and have studied hard ever since to make it to upper level which I accomplished.

People make bad grades generally because they don't want to put in the work or have some other excuse. There are bad profs, but most of the time it's not the prof that causes a student to do bad.

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I have been fortunate and have not in my opinion had a "bad" professor

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Wait till Aero 310, then get back to us on that one.

I should have said "I have not had a bad professor so far".

Karrde, who did you have for 310?

Grade exclusions... Let me rant. No such critter when I was here. I used no Q-drops and a EARNED few C's (translation: I studied my butt off for those C's). Silly me, I thought I was to work for my grades instead of being given an easy "out."

A friend's kid finally fessed up to me about his first semester. "I had horrible profs. I didn't even take one final and I overslept through another. This one prof hated me..." Somewhere in all of this, the parets were also blamed. You get the idea. The kid took no responsibility whatsoever. "I just took my grade forgivensses (I know, not a word) and my Q-drops and now everything is fine." HOW EASY! "What was learned from the first semester?" I asked. The answer was, "It's easy to get rid of bad grades."

DO AWAY WITH THIS MORONIC CONCEPT!

WORK FOR YOUR GRADES. Oh wait, they are ENTITLED to such easy outs.

To summarize: You were fortunate enough to be admitted to this fine university. Take your courses and grades seriously or get the HELL out of here. It's that simple.

I end my rant.

I'm in favor of grade exclusions if it's the norm at other top 100 universities. If we didn't have them and most of the other top schools do, it gives those kids in an advantage in applying for grad school/job search over A&M grads..

Same thing with average GPA at A&M.. It should be similar to its peers.

It used to be: Most any Ag would hire another Ag.

This was because of the definite quality of education. This is slowly going down the drain.

1. Over the last 40 years, A&M is a lot better school academically & The Association of Former Students is better because of all the growth in the 80s, those people are now in positions to hire.

2. It used to be a college degree meant a lot more.. The college degree is slowly becoming more like a high school degree. Especially any degree not in engineering or accounting.

[This message has been edited by Aston04 (edited 4/30/2006 10:52a).]

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Q drop should extend to the final day of classes, and there should be no grade exclusion. That's my stand.

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I completely agree. Faculty Senate must have had their heads up their asses for this decision.

The quality of education is not going down. The character of some of the students is. If you grade exclude, you still have to take that class over again. It's not like it's free pass from taking a course. I was told less than 800 graduating seniors last year even used grade exclusion. Most studens will probably never even think about using it, but to say the quality of an A&M degree is comparable to a high school degree is damn shameful and you should be embarrased for saying that.

I think you misunderstood what Aston was saying.

I don't think he meant that the quality of an A&M degree equals a hs diploma. I think he means that earning one isn't thought of as a great achievement anymore. The BS or BA is where the level of expectation is at now. In past generations, graduating from high school was something special. But people have become more "elitist", and these milestones become less impressive. Now, every kid is supposed to get a diploma. 2-year degrees are good alternatives to people who don't have the money or didn't have the grades out of high school, but they are looked down upon by many because that person didn't get into a 4-year school at first (ie. Blinndergardeners). And 4-year degrees are beginning to be treated as just another checkmark on an application, especially lib. arts or non-technical degrees. Ktown, your AERO, correct? How do you feel when a business or education major complains about their homework and projects? Do you feel that your degree will be more important or valuable because you worked harder?

And I do believe that quality of student, regarding their character and personalities, has gone down. Book smarts have gone way up, but that's a small part of a successful graduate. It's a shame that people are forgetting the social development and are putting all their effort on grades that won't matter two years after the fact. That's why I came to A&M. My grades suck, but it's my experiences in "the other education" that have recruiters still calling me for interviews.

[This message has been edited by rc_ag (edited 4/30/2006 2:45p).]

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No I understood him completely.

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Apparently you did not if you agree with him, when he clarified exactly what I meant (while you called me an idiot the post before)..

FYI: My degree is in Mktg, stop being so easily offended and jumping to inaccurate conclusions.

[This message has been edited by Aston04 (edited 5/1/2006 10:34a).]

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I was told less than 800 graduating seniors last year even used grade exclusion.

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That's probably because they didn't have time to go back and repeat the credit for whatever they wanted to grade exclude. (Or just flat out didn't want to sit through POLS 207, and took the D.)I think the stats will go up dramatically each year.

rc_ag,

Yes I am AERO and yes it pisses me off when a business or education major complains about their homework or projects. I easily work harder and typically end up with lower grades than my friends in those majors. I feel I will have worked a lot harder for my degree, but doing anything less challenging would bore me. Many will make more money than me and that's ok because I am 100% happy with what I will be doing and many who graduate are not. My degree is more important than I would say a business majors degree only for the reason that you cannot be an Aerospace Engineer without an AERO degree. You can however go into business without a business degree. I chose what I wanted to study and others chose what they wanted, but it doesn't cheapen their degree because they didn't have to work as hard in college.

As for spike427,
You do realize the grade is still on the transcript with a big asterisk next to it right. Grade exclusion for most people is dumb because you may have to expain the asterisk and in the end excluding 3 grades may only make .03 or so difference.

[This message has been edited by ktownag08 (edited 5/1/2006 11:48a).]

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Karrde, who did you have for 310?

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Chakravorty. He's smart, but one of the least approachable people I know. It's his way or the highway. I lost twenty points on a test for taking the linear momentum in the theta direction as opposed to taking the angular momentum. My way was unconventional, but it works for me and mathematically it's correct. He didn't see it that way.

you know UT offers unlimited Qdrops and offers offers SI as an actually coarse: you attend and get 2 hours of As. A freshman/sophmore could take 3 basic science courses (phy I&II, calc, diff eq, chem, etc..)and three SI and have a full semester.

You can blow them off, but their grade inflation sends their grads to better graduate schools and buoys their rankings.

^
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Please tell me your kidding.

I don't believe that Texas would do that. What with their hoity-toity attitudes and yankee-esque personas, surely they wouldn't inflate grades just to make themselves look better.

Maybe they just do that for their athletes. Or maybe I can ask my friend's sister about it and then make fun of her for going to a school that prides itself on being "better" than A&M, when it's really just easier.

Gig 'em

http://www.engr.utexas.edu/current/services/ge.cfm

http://www.law.harvard.edu/admissions/jd/colleges.php

UT students at Harvard Law: 31
TAMU students at Harvard Law: 1