Freshman Admissions

40,036 Views | 139 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by wxmanX
Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX
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Received a call from TAMU today asking for money. The caller, a pleasant student, just manning the phones performing a job to contact alumni. We had a great conversation and shared a lot of experiences. In the end, I told him I was prepared to give the University more than $200,000, but unfortunately it will go to the University of Nebraska. ...

I am Class of 81 and Masters 83. My son graduates HS this May. He has the grades, the ACT, the community hours, the AP, the dual credits, 10th out of 232 class rank, swims competitively year round/honors scholastic athlete and works 15 hrs per week at a supermarket during the school year and 25 hrs/wk in the summer. We are out of state so I'm paying out of state tuition either way. FAFSA states I/we qualify for nothing. I know my son has the resume, it's just a matter of which university made him feel comfortable.

This is what I found through the process, so far. All schools mentioned below reached out to us first.

Some nearby and notables....Baylor, Kansas, SMU, and TCU were in our face from the get go with information to consider them. Didn't get squat from A&M. (I told the student on the phone today I was stunned that being legacy really didn't matter and my feelings are rather mutual now) Did receive something from West Texas A&M. Received a fair amount from Texas Tech. Penn, Brown, and Dartmouth were the Ivies that reached out.

My son narrowed his list to (alphabetical)
Case Western Reserve University
Fordham University
South Dakota State University
Tulane University
University of Chicago
University of Nebraska

The schools above provided plenty of materials to review and kept you up informed as to what was taking place on campus.

My son is Pre-Med bound to University of Nebraska...pretty certain.

Case Western is still recruiting him, but I think he's losing interest.

Hands down Nebraska's recruiting process was tops. Parents and students know what to expect, what to do, where to go and when. Communications were/are extraordinary, either in-person, on the phone and online. Online systems for the process made the most sense out of the university systems we registered on. His application was accepted and merit-based scholarship was awarded in Oct or Nov. It was amazingly fast versus every one else. I fully understand how my son made his decision for choice.

Fordham was second. Good communication overall.
Case Western third . Good communication but slow.
South Dakota State. Good communication but long spaced times between updates. Phone communications were excellent.
University of Chicago. Was okay.
Tulane fell off the list early, but their communication was really good.

He's got a 1/2 ride to Nebraska and we're being told there will be more.
He's got a 1/4 ride to Fordham (I told him if he decides to go Business versus Pre-Med, Fordham should be his pick as the Gabelli School of Business is tough to beat)
He's got a 3/4 ride to South Dakota State

I don't know if the above info helps anyone, I hope it does.

No comments about the A&M process, they didn't provide an opportunity to allow me to comment.

BoDog
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Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX said:

Received a call from TAMU today asking for money. The caller, a pleasant student, just manning the phones performing a job to contact alumni. We had a great conversation and shared a lot of experiences. In the end, I told him I was prepared to give the University more than $200,000, but unfortunately it will go to the University of Nebraska. ...

I am Class of 81 and Masters 83. My son graduates HS this May. He has the grades, the ACT, the community hours, the AP, the dual credits, 10th out of 232 class rank, swims competitively year round/honors scholastic athlete and works 15 hrs per week at a supermarket during the school year and 25 hrs/wk in the summer. We are out of state so I'm paying out of state tuition either way. FAFSA states I/we qualify for nothing. I know my son has the resume, it's just a matter of which university made him feel comfortable.

This is what I found through the process, so far. All schools mentioned below reached out to us first.

Some nearby and notables....Baylor, Kansas, SMU, and TCU were in our face from the get go with information to consider them. Didn't get squat from A&M. (I told the student on the phone today I was stunned that being legacy really didn't matter and my feelings are rather mutual now) Did receive something from West Texas A&M. Received a fair amount from Texas Tech. Penn, Brown, and Dartmouth were the Ivies that reached out.

My son narrowed his list to (alphabetical)
Case Western Reserve University
Fordham University
South Dakota State University
Tulane University
University of Chicago
University of Nebraska

The schools above provided plenty of materials to review and kept you up informed as to what was taking place on campus.

My son is Pre-Med bound to University of Nebraska...pretty certain.

Case Western is still recruiting him, but I think he's losing interest.

Hands down Nebraska's recruiting process was tops. Parents and students know what to expect, what to do, where to go and when. Communications were/are extraordinary, either in-person, on the phone and online. Online systems for the process made the most sense out of the university systems we registered on. His application was accepted and merit-based scholarship was awarded in Oct or Nov. It was amazingly fast versus every one else. I fully understand how my son made his decision for choice.

Fordham was second. Good communication overall.
Case Western third . Good communication but slow.
South Dakota State. Good communication but long spaced times between updates. Phone communications were excellent.
University of Chicago. Was okay.
Tulane fell off the list early, but their communication was really good.

He's got a 1/2 ride to Nebraska and we're being told there will be more.
He's got a 1/4 ride to Fordham (I told him if he decides to go Business versus Pre-Med, Fordham should be his pick as the Gabelli School of Business is tough to beat)
He's got a 3/4 ride to South Dakota State

I don't know if the above info helps anyone, I hope it does.

No comments about the A&M process, they didn't provide an opportunity to allow me to comment.


Some of you people take this process way too personal. Hell, Liberty Univ was sending us stuff daily but it didnt mean we were going to consider them.
Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX
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I dont know about you, but if someone expects me to pay over $200k for university (out of State tuition) yes, I will be focused on the topic. It might even be personal.

I'm glad Liberty sent information to you.
DannyDuberstein
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From what we experienced with my Aggie fish daughter and her friends, a school's recruiting effort and speed of process was inversely proportional to the school's desirability (not exactly surprising). College is big business, and they are competing for your $$$. But A&M is in position where it is not. They are going to get it, and if not, another quality student's.

I'm also of the opinion that legacy should not matter at state institutions. I have two degrees from A&M, my wife has one. But these kids should both earn and choose their own path.
Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX
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Just curious, what other schools did your daughter consider?
DannyDuberstein
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When it boiled down to it, Auburn, OU, and Arkansas were other contenders for her. But it wasn't a close decision in the end. She graduated HS with 1300 kids (DFW burbs), and having lived in the neighborhood for over 20 years (including me coaching rec sports for many of those years), I know a ton of these kids and their families. So I know kids going to a whole gamut of options and quite a bit about how those application/recruiting processes worked. As a general rule, kids that could actually get into A&M or tu went there. Then OU, OSU, and Arkansas tended to scoop up the next tier. Tech is one that we really need to up their game reputation-wise.

OSU and Arkansas in particular are greatly benefitting from how competitive it's become to get into tu and A&M
Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX
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Thanks for sharing that bit of info.

We agree to disagree on legacy for recruitment. Related/unrelated, I have no idea if A&M has legacy tuition discounts for students, if they do, it should be dropped/canceled.

Considering the 3 institutions you listed as other choices and finding the inverse relationship of speed vs desirability, that statement makes a lot more sense now.
DannyDuberstein
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My inverse judgment is based on the whole population of kids we know that just went through it and had siblings in recent years as well. So the 3 I listed for her, as well as a slew of others. A&M did thankfully respond quickly on my daughter (mid October), so she was not in the waiting limbo long at all. But the message there was certainly different. They were more preparing expectations on difficulty of entry than selling. But with my daughter, that ended up a selling point. She liked that it was tougher. It made them stand out.
Leander - Ag
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DannyDuberstein said:

From what we experienced with my Aggie fish daughter and her friends, a school's recruiting effort and speed of process was inversely proportional to the school's desirability (not exactly surprising). College is big business, and they are competing for your $$$. But A&M is in position where it is not. They are going to get it, and if not, another quality student's.

I'm also of the opinion that legacy should not matter at state institutions. I have two degrees from A&M, my wife has one. But these kids should both earn and choose their own path.


A point made in this thread is that A&M does not have a logical / fair selection process. So it's really not "earned".
500,000ags
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I disagree with the earned bit, just like I disagree with the prior poster saying he would no longer recruit from A&M. I don't see how the shortcoming is with the students that do get into A&M. I do agree the process and strategy of A&M admissions is illogical at best, unless they purposely want a lower quality of student, academic profile, etc.
DannyDuberstein
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Understand. One of my points is that they need to go back to requiring test scores. While imperfect, it is the most impartial of what we have available, and it is predictive of success. Then another issue clouding things is the demand for different colleges within the University, and naturally, admissions criteria are then going to vary depending on what a student is seeking. I think these two factors are combining to cause issues as well as cause some folks to be more skeptical even if the college may have a solid, fair process. The fact it isn't transparent encourages skepticism

As far as legacy, I just think that policy is fundamentally contrary to what public institutions should be chartered to do. Private? Do what you want. Taking our tax dollars? Where mom and dad went should have no bearing
Leander - Ag
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DannyDuberstein said:

Understand. One of my points is that they need to go back to requiring test scores. While imperfect, it is the most impartial of what we have available, and it is predictive of success. Then another issue clouding things is the demand for different colleges within the University, and naturally, admissions criteria are then going to vary depending on what a student is seeking. I think these two factors are combining to cause issues as well as cause some folks to be more skeptical even if the college may have a solid, fair process. The fact it isn't transparent encourages skepticism

As far as legacy, I just think that policy is fundamentally contrary to what public institutions should be chartered to do. Private? Do what you want. Taking our tax dollars? Where mom and dad went should have no bearing


Yep. Agree on legacy ..
Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX
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Maybe the expectation and/or definition of "legacy" is confusing.

My expectation of legacy is this and only this. I would prefer the institution send a communication to the student and acknowledge that a parent, or both parents, or guardian, attended and had degree(s) conferred. Something stated by the institution that they hope the prospective student considers the institution in their selection process for college. That's it. Pretty basic. Nothing more.

What are you folks thinking legacy means? Your expectation attached to legacy?
500,000ags
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You have a pretty generic version of legacy then. For some schools, legacy meant family name and parentage mattered in acceptance, if that family had a long history with the school. IMO it led to a lot of the inclusion initiatives you see today.
Joseph in Cypress
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Just curious, what kind of data base do you think the university has on us that they know our correct current info much less the ages of our children to send out a mailer when the they are Seniors in High school. I help out a lot with the A&M Club in Houston and you would be astonished at the bad and limited data we have on people. We rely on former students updating their info, which most do not.
Joseph George '92
DannyDuberstein
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In my experience, when people talk legacy, it means having a parent that attended the school brings some amount of weight in scoring the student's application. In some cases, tuition discounts may be given (I know OSU has this, not sure who else). A&M does neither and rightfully so in my book.
DannyDuberstein
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Joseph in Cypress said:

Just curious, what kind of data base do you think the university has on us that they know our correct current info much less the ages of our children to send out a mailer when the they are Seniors in High school. I help out a lot with the A&M Club in Houston and you would be astonished at the bad and limited data we have on people. We rely on former students updating their info, which most do not.


Yeah, this is a lot to ask when most don't keep their info current. And again, A&M is in massive demand by great students. They don't really have to spend time and money proactively schmoozing our kids
Leander - Ag
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Farmer @ Johnsongrass, TX said:

Maybe the expectation and/or definition of "legacy" is confusing.

My expectation of legacy is this and only this. I would prefer the institution send a communication to the student and acknowledge that a parent, or both parents, or guardian, attended and had degree(s) conferred. Something stated by the institution that they hope the prospective student considers the institution in their selection process for college. That's it. Pretty basic. Nothing more.

What are you folks thinking legacy means? Your expectation attached to legacy?


Why? I say "earn" your way in but make it logical and fair. That's my beef with the process.
Beckett12
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A&M is just big these days. first son was accepted immediately in bz school and now a senior. Second son was waitlisted, but received an appointment to West Point. Go figure. Does not make a difference though, he would have gone to West Point anyway over A&M. bz is bz, and when the deal is over just move on to the next one.
ag97tx
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Your child has great credentials for A&M obviously but I think that being out of state was why he wasn't admitted. If you lived in Texas he would have been an auto admit. Public Universities give priority to in state students because that is who they have an obligation to educate. I know kids in Georgia that got into Georgia Tech but weren't admitted to UT and kids in Texas that got into UT but not Georgia Tech. Living in the state gives you priority. Your son was competing for the limited number of out of state admissions spots.

I also believe A&M does send out recruiting information to some students but not because of legacy. My son started receiving emails from A&M in his junior year giving him information on the application process, who to contact if he had questions, and links for things related to being a student at A&M. Those emails may have started after he sent SAT scores his junior year but I don't know if it was related to that or not.

My son was an auto admit but I never assumed that he would get into engineering since that was holistic regardless of class rank. Thought he was a great candidate but knew the applicant pool was very competitive so no guarantees. He had other spots he could choose from if A&M said no for engineering.

With the number of alumni from A&M now I always knew it was possible my kids wouldn't go there because there just isn't enough room for all of those kids.
Prexys Moon
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maroonblood said:

They call it "holistic ". Whatever that means.
it's called QUOTAS.
aggie93
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Sorry this is a rant.

Have a similar story to many here but my son got into Galveston and is doing Maritime Transportation with a Minor in Maritime Business. Still gets his Aggie Ring and tickets to Aggie games and can just change majors and go to main campus after a year.

He applied to both in September. Got into Galveston pretty quickly. Only heard back from CS a couple of weeks ago and he got PSA but had already chosen Galveston by that time after doing an in depth look at both. He loves the ocean and fishing though and the idea of working on boats fits him well. That said the Maritime Business program there was more impressive to me than AgriBusiness at A&M which would have been his major.

Always knew it would be an uphill battle on CS and we planned around it both strategically and just as important emotionally long ago. He's the classic case of a smart kid from an ultra competitive, college prep, suburban HS that has taken AP and Dual Credit classes but had the audacity to get a few B's. BTW, I was in the Corps, wife was in Mays, Dad was a Yell Leader. Been going to Aggie games all of my life and my son has as well. Family has donated a ridiculous amount of money and time to the school over the years.

That said it doesn't make it any less frustrating to see how differently A&M treated us vs other schools. Ark and OU gave him admission almost immediately with nearly instate tuition, they are actually cheaper than A&M for him to go to. Tech called him to accept him and offered him money within a few days of applying. LSU acts like a stalker. A&M? If you don't call and push and do it on your own they DGAS. Even then no one seems to have influence with admissions and the secret sauce they use and believe me I tried everything. It's so short sighted to treat alumni and their kids that way, just beyond stupid. Doesn't mean they have to let them all in but part of the application involves talking about your connection to A&M so they know and they still do nothing. Freaking communicate. Have a Corps buddy as well who has a daughter that is going to Indiana Business on scholarship but got freaking PSA from A&M after zero responses, there goes another regular Aggie donor and his daughter that would have been an amazing Aggie.

For my son it's ended up what Galveston is the best choice but I encouraged him to look at everything. I have no illusions that A&M is that different anymore. I had him approach it as a business decision and look at ROI and take the emotions out of it. Do what is best for him and go where it makes the most sense. The only thing I would caution a lot of folks on here is to not equate admissions with the schools. Just because they call and give you attention doesn't mean they are a good choice, all of that ends the first day of classes and you are just another number. I guess at least at A&M they don't hide it. It's really foolish to go to a school because of how you were treated in admissions for good or bad, that's all the sales pitch or lack thereof. What matters is the value you get on the backend and are you going to the place that fits you.

The other thing I realized and am glad I did was we didn't do campus tours but instead set up meetings with the academic departments of schools we were interested in. Don't go for the prescripted advertisement where your kid ends up choosing school x over school y because they have a better Rec center or they think the campus is pretty. Keep your eye on the ball as to why you are there, it's not 13th grade.

I am going to enjoy the process with my younger son. He's extremely driven and currently Top 5% at the same ultra competitive HS and will be in AP Calculus II his Senior Year. He is likely going to have a monster SAT, great extracurriculars and checks every box. If A&M wants him they are going to have to give him a lot of money because I know others will.

BTW, I have discovered there are a lot of folks at A&M trying to fix the process and that understand the problems. It's just a tough nut to crack. In the end though they are treating alumni and dedicated Aggies in a business like way and they will be treated back the same. If decades of dedication and money to A&M means nothing then it makes it hard to feel like I need to have any loyalty if someone else offers better.

"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
Leander - Ag
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Agree. If you just look at ROI, A&M is still a good choice. It's a business decision for them and now for me. Dont feed me BS about aggie network and being different / special. A&M is no longer unique, and you are a sucker to give a penny more than the minimum to secure your kids a degree. A&M calls me for money - F off.
ag97tx
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Good Luck to your son at the Galveston campus.

Regarding your younger son, his current credentials sound a lot like my son who will be an incoming freshman in engineering this fall in College Station. My understanding is that A&M awards very few scholarships to those students. My son is top 5% at a very competitive suburb high school, all "A's" , tons of AP classes, took AP Calculus BC as a junior (got a 5 on AP test), and great SAT score (with a 780 on math) but no scholarship from A&M. Tons of scholarship money to go to other schools but not at A&M even with those stats.

I have heard that UT and A&M really don't have to give scholarships because there are so many applicants that want into those programs. So don't count on that even if your kid is extremely successful in high school.
aggie93
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ag97tx said:

Good Luck to your son at the Galveston campus.

Regarding your younger son, his current credentials sound a lot like my son who will be an incoming freshman in engineering this fall in College Station. My understanding is that A&M awards very few scholarships to those students. My son is top 5% at a very competitive suburb high school, all "A's" , tons of AP classes, took AP Calculus BC as a junior (got a 5 on AP test), and great SAT score (with a 780 on math) but no scholarship from A&M. Tons of scholarship money to go to other schools but not at A&M even with those stats.

I have heard that UT and A&M really don't have to give scholarships because there are so many applicants that want into those programs. So don't count on that even if your kid is extremely successful in high school.
Thanks for that insight. I know there are a very, very limited number of scholarships at A&M that are not based on financial need or some other similar status. Essentially Presidential Endowed and a few others. There are also a number of other scholarships outside of the University he will apply for. In the end that may be A&M's loss. If he can go to another good school for free or pay a fortune to go to A&M that's a no brainer. He is likely going to either go for a Master's or maybe go to Medical School as well and there are schools that are centered around that.

Planning to give A&M every chance as that is his first choice for now but definitely not locked in. If they want to penalize him for being a white kid with good parents that make too much money they can kiss my ass. There are places that value smart kids that work their ass off and have all the superlatives, I just hope when the time comes A&M is one of them but if not so be it.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
BigOil
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For those with kids that have been admitted, is it true that dorms are full already? Mine is going to the July conference, but concerned on housing situation
r12
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If you paid your housing deposit right when you saw your admission offer, I believe you are good. You need to log onto the housing portal on Howdy to see where you are in the process. Yesterday they starting giving room selection appointment times. I believe that there is a waitlist for on campus living, but you will have to check your students status
DannyDuberstein
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Yeah, hopefully you got advice to make the housing deposit as soon as the admission notice came because that determines (determined) the selection order.
Ghost of Bisbee
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Understand the frustration, but if anything, university admissions prove that life isn't fair. Our children need to learn this, repeatedly. We don't help them by playing the role of helicopter. They will find their way.

Sucks to see so many here having this experience with A&M admissions
wxmanX
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780 MATH, I would be going to MIT with that score.



ag97tx
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I don't think he had any interest in MIT and I am not sure if a 780 on math gets you in there or not. He is currently a freshman in engineering at A&M and happy.

I also have a 10th grade daughter who took the SAT last month just because she wanted to see how she did and she got a 770 on math so maybe she will apply there but at this time A&M and Georgia Tech are on her lists.
double b
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wxmanX said:

780 MATH, I would be going to MIT with that score.




Unfortunately, a 780 Math SAT score is not even in the middle 50 range of submitted scores. To get into schools like MIT, A) you have to be hooked, or B) you need an imposing resume. SAT scores and course GPA only allow you to be considered by schools of this caliber. Beyond that, the student needs to develop a compelling narrative or angle that powerfully demonstrates a student's interest or passion.

For instance, your student may love computer science. However, it's not just enough to excel in math and do well in an AP computer science course. They will need to demonstrate strong proficiency in their understanding of coding languages. They may have competed in competitions and performed well enough to earn accolades. Research is also essential as most students will have some experience, possibly even published an article.

Schools such as MIT, Harvard, and other very selective schools are challenging to achieve, and more often, your student will need to pursue these types of schools with vigor. Most of the clients I work with start with this goal in mind by the time they arrive in high school or find themselves possessing unique talents and are motivated to achieve beyond measure.
Cognos
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MIT CS average SAT math scores are 800. 780 is considered weak and 800 is not enough for MIT CS. You need strong EC, such as USAMO and USACO Gold.
Buck Turgidson
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Schools from less populated states like OU, Arkansas, Nebraska, Alabama, etc. have institutional ambitions that cannot be fulfilled without heavily courting students from other, more populous states. Its not at all surprising to read accounts of Texas kids having the red carpet rolled out for them by such schools, while A&M appears less enthusiastic. The truth is, A&M is a popular school in a large state. They don't have to work as hard for their applicant pool (and a big portion of each class will be dictated by the idiotic 10% rule anyway). I have three junior high kids and you can bet we will consider some of these schools in the next few years - its a win/win.

AllTheFishes
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double b said:

bmks270 said:

University admissions are very subjective.
I know of lots of great students that didn't get accepted to places that is a bit shocking. All ended up doing great however, because they make themselves, not the particular university.



That is mainly true for the very selective institutions (less than 20% acceptance rates), but those students typically possess very impressive academic resumes and test scores. Their essays and unique backgrounds essentially separate one candidate from another.

Texas A&M is not in that category of schools. Historically, we've admitted more than 60% of our applicants, although Blinn Team primarily inflates those numbers. So traditionally, a solid academic student coupled with equally good test scores and essays could feel confident about their admissions chances. At the very least, receive Blinn Team.

I think what happened this year is that Texas A&M admitted way too many students last year and a larger percentage matriculated than expected. The main campus welcomed 11,100 new students this Fall 2021 semester. For the Fall 2020 semester, TAMU enrolled 10,039 students, and that's an 11% increase from the previous year. No school plans to increase their enrollment by that much.

Overall, I don't think TAMU was expecting such an increase from the following year, coupled with a continued rise in applications due to Test-Optional policies, and you have this calamity of admission decisions this year. Texas A&M was going to continue to recruit their designated populations in hopes of increasing those numbers, which unfortunately, came at the sacrifice of suburban schools for this admission cycle.

Can You shed some light on this for the current year. Seems things have not changed much but my view is narrow.
 
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