rsf0626 said:
Texas has grown so much in population over the past decade. A&M is trying to keep up.
The UT System schools have done well because they are PUF schools. Virtually all of them are PUF eligible. In the A&M System only College Station, Galveston, Tarleton, and Prairie View are eligible for PUF money. If you look at the PUF dollars per student it is almost the same between the two Systems because of that. A&M has about 100k Students at eligible institutions, Texas has nearly 250k. That PUF money allows them to build infrastructure and that is why those schools have done so well.double b said:rsf0626 said:
Texas has grown so much in population over the past decade. A&M is trying to keep up.
Obviously, you don't have a child trying to get into their engineering major if choice and has to settle for their second, or even third choice of major. You also don't have a child who is trying to arrange an in person visit with their departmental advisor. Also, have you tried to eat on campus during lunch with the long lines or tried waiting for a bus?
We're too big and our resources are limited. Additionally, our system schools have been relegated to third/fourth tier status in the state while the UT system has Dallas, San Antonio, and Arlington all ranking above one of our system schools.
BoDog said:
Double b is absolutely correct. My youngest is flipping a coin between SMU and Baylor to study finance for many of these same reasons. You can draw similar parallels between Business and Engineering....
double b said:
Also, based on your logic , you are perfectly okay with having 100k enrollment someday. Our state's population is not slowing down and if anything, is growing at an accelerated pace beyond many others.
Perfectly ok? No doubt there are costs and benefits. A&M is a unique blend though of having the money and size to be a school of that size that can produce a large volume of high quality graduates. Essentially the school will continue to become more compartmentalized and be a collection of colleges. As long as we have the money to build and staff at a high level and we have the space to make it work feasibly there are worse things and there are definitely significant benefits. There are also a lot of savings and efficiencies by having all of those colleges in such close proximity and under the same University. A&M also has a centralized location directly in between the main population centers, 75% of the population of the State is within 200 miles in every direction.Even then it's crazy we are pushing 70k students and 94% are from Texas. Compare that with large public schools outside the State where 60% is often a big number.double b said:
Also, based on your logic , you are perfectly okay with having 100k enrollment someday. Our state's population is not slowing down and if anything, is growing at an accelerated pace beyond many others.
I think a lot of your issues there are with our admissions policies and on that I agree. They are making an effort to do more to fix it but it is a huge issue. With my son and kids in his class they can go to Arkansas or OU cheaper than A&M because they hand out in state tuition and it's a lot more attractive to those kids than doing Blinn Team or not being able to major in Business or Engineering because the slots are gone. They go out of state and make outstanding grades because they went to great HS's that prepared them.BoDog said:
Certainly. I am letting him make the decision, but SMU for example has a top flight business school (Cox) with close knit alumni network (albeit mostly in Dallas), gorgeous campus and obviously much smaller in size. He has that big fish in a small pond personality/preference.
He has grown up going to Aggie games since he was in kindergarten, has a ton of maroon and white in the closet, loves Jimbo, follows recruiting, etc. When this process started I just sort of imagined he would pick A&M, however I think he has come to realize that today's 68,000 student A&M isnt anything like the A&M his old man used to talk about. He is also a rather conservative kid (atleast from a soon to be 18 year old) and even he can see the "bend the knee" demeanor from our Marxist-like administration and faculty.
Last week at breakfast he said that maybe he will go to A&M for graduate school, law school, etc as if he was almost apologizing to me that A&M wont be in his immediate future. After that conversation I have come to realize how unfortunate it is that kids like him all over Texas are looking elsewhere. These are kids that fit the Aggie mold (or atleast the mold that I knew) and would have made incredible representatives of our school.
Again, you are failing to address my point. By your logic, you are completely okay with the status quo our system school and relegating the entire system to second place of UT. I am not okay with that. Our flagship campus is meant to educate the very best within our state's borders and some beyond. I am perfectly okay with that mission. However, you are of the mindset that we can continue to grow and that the quality of the student's education experience will not come as a sacrifice. So hell, why don't we grow all our high schools into mega high schools and host 100 + students into of each class, cram a 1000 + students into each lunch hour, etc. We all know this is a not sustainable model of growth and the return on one's experience diminishes with respect to its size.aggie93 said:Perfectly ok? No doubt there are costs and benefits. A&M is a unique blend though of having the money and size to be a school of that size that can produce a large volume of high quality graduates. Essentially the school will continue to become more compartmentalized and be a collection of colleges. As long as we have the money to build and staff at a high level and we have the space to make it work feasibly there are worse things and there are definitely significant benefits. There are also a lot of savings and efficiencies by having all of those colleges in such close proximity and under the same University. A&M also has a centralized location directly in between the main population centers, 75% of the population of the State is within 200 miles in every direction.Even then it's crazy we are pushing 70k students and 94% are from Texas. Compare that with large public schools outside the State where 60% is often a big number.double b said:
Also, based on your logic , you are perfectly okay with having 100k enrollment someday. Our state's population is not slowing down and if anything, is growing at an accelerated pace beyond many others.
The negatives are perception of a school that large and the loss of a closer knit feel. Lots of logistical issues to work through as well. If your goal is solely that you want A&M to become a Georgia Tech or maybe UF then you will be disappointed, that just isn't our mission and it isn't what is best for Texas as a State.
The UT System has already taken the burden of creating Tier 2 schools on a broad scale. They have almost 250k students in all of the UT System schools and they qualify for PUF money. They are helping with the regional issues. The A&M System schools help as well but most are Tier 3 or even Tier 4 but that's ok as well. The real problem is that none of those schools have a real chance at being Tier 1 in the next 20 years. UT Dallas is probably the most likely. Texas has 3 Tier 1 Schools in this State (Rice being the 3rd) and A&M is basically filling the void for offering Tier 1 for population growth. Texas and Rice aren't going to grow. Thus continuing to grow A&M in a smart manner makes a hell of a lot of sense.
It's just a very big picture to look at.
First off, I'm not advocating anything I'm simply discussing the pluses and minuses to each and the political reality. Texas A&M has a mission and serves the State of Texas as a Tier 1 Public Research University. It does not have a mission to become the most elite Public University in the country. That has opportunities and limitationsdouble b said:Again, you are failing to address my point. By your logic, you are completely okay with the status quo our system school and relegating the entire system to second place of UT. I am not okay with that. Our flagship campus is meant to educate the very best within our state's borders and some beyond. I am perfectly okay with that mission. However, you are of the mindset that we can continue to grow and that the quality of the student's education experience will not come as a sacrifice. So hell, why don't we grow all our high schools into mega high schools and host 100 + students into of each class, cram a 1000 + students into each lunch hour, etc. We all know this is a not sustainable model of growth and the return on one's experience diminishes with respect to its size.aggie93 said:Perfectly ok? No doubt there are costs and benefits. A&M is a unique blend though of having the money and size to be a school of that size that can produce a large volume of high quality graduates. Essentially the school will continue to become more compartmentalized and be a collection of colleges. As long as we have the money to build and staff at a high level and we have the space to make it work feasibly there are worse things and there are definitely significant benefits. There are also a lot of savings and efficiencies by having all of those colleges in such close proximity and under the same University. A&M also has a centralized location directly in between the main population centers, 75% of the population of the State is within 200 miles in every direction.Even then it's crazy we are pushing 70k students and 94% are from Texas. Compare that with large public schools outside the State where 60% is often a big number.double b said:
Also, based on your logic , you are perfectly okay with having 100k enrollment someday. Our state's population is not slowing down and if anything, is growing at an accelerated pace beyond many others.
The negatives are perception of a school that large and the loss of a closer knit feel. Lots of logistical issues to work through as well. If your goal is solely that you want A&M to become a Georgia Tech or maybe UF then you will be disappointed, that just isn't our mission and it isn't what is best for Texas as a State.
The UT System has already taken the burden of creating Tier 2 schools on a broad scale. They have almost 250k students in all of the UT System schools and they qualify for PUF money. They are helping with the regional issues. The A&M System schools help as well but most are Tier 3 or even Tier 4 but that's ok as well. The real problem is that none of those schools have a real chance at being Tier 1 in the next 20 years. UT Dallas is probably the most likely. Texas has 3 Tier 1 Schools in this State (Rice being the 3rd) and A&M is basically filling the void for offering Tier 1 for population growth. Texas and Rice aren't going to grow. Thus continuing to grow A&M in a smart manner makes a hell of a lot of sense.
It's just a very big picture to look at.
My biggest pet peeve is that Texas A&M decided a long time ago to shift their focus into another direction, I know because I was largely there a part of those conversations and did my best to redirect them as best as I could. Since I have left, things have progressively moved further and further into that direction.
If you want to talk about big picture, let's make an effort to grow our system into the best in our state, and eventually the nation. Our state has a lot of resources, and with the right type of foresight, the TAMU system has the opportunity to build up the other institutions instead of letting them wilt away into permanent cellar status. Right now, the Galveston campus (which is truly a diamond in the rough), is the only other campus that is comparable to another regional school in the state. However, from your attitude, you are content with retaining our "second" tier status in the state and cannot see that they are bigger opportunities ahead of us than the bragging rights of having 100K Aggies.
BoDog said:
TriAg, not saying you are wrong or incorrect but why would that enrollment be good with you? I feel like we are becoming East Arizona State.
Then it sounds like your issue is with the Texas Constitution that does not permit access to PUF money to those A&M System schools. UT Dallas, UTSA, UT Arlingont etc all are PUF eligible. You can blame A&M if you want I suppose but the PUF is very specific in what it can and cannot be used for. I also don't think you are going to find a lot of folks who donate money to A&M College Station excited to hear their donations being used for A&M Corpus or West Texas A&M so where is the money going to come from if it isn't coming from those schools and their own efforts directly? If you want to start a movement to change the PUF that's fine. If you want to start funding drives for those schools that's fine as well. Being mad that College Station is being built up though because it has a ton of money is fruitless.double b said:
Honestly, I don't care about our US News Ranking and not once have I mentioned that those rankings should guide our mission or decision making. You are the one who has repeatedly brought them up in our conversation. I for one think there are other ways for us to lift up the visibility and brand recognition of the A&M system then through the flagship campus only.
What I have repeatedly said, is that our BOR are so intent on building up our flagship that our system schools are in terrible shape, outside of Galveston. It is shameful how little resources they receive given the abundance that is at our system's disposal.
As an education consultant, I have NEVER recommended (or would recommend) any student to one our system schools (disclaimer: outside of Galveston) because that is how poorly I think of them. However, I have guided plenty of students to UT - Dallas, UTSA, and Arlington for reasons that were in the best interest of the student and family.
Our state continues to accumulate resources that outpaces the vast majority of other states, and we're in a very unique position to grow along with those resources. We should take advantage of that and grow our universities that are in line with the regional needs of our state and help provide citizens surrounding those communities with strong viable options.
your son may just not like A&M, because kids in Texas are certainly not looking to go elsewhere. record number of applications this year & nearly everybody I know is currently sweating a decision from A&M.BoDog said:
Certainly. I am letting him make the decision, but SMU for example has a top flight business school (Cox) with close knit alumni network (albeit mostly in Dallas), gorgeous campus and obviously much smaller in size. He has that big fish in a small pond personality/preference.
He has grown up going to Aggie games since he was in kindergarten, has a ton of maroon and white in the closet, loves Jimbo, follows recruiting, etc. When this process started I just sort of imagined he would pick A&M, however I think he has come to realize that today's 68,000 student A&M isnt anything like the A&M his old man used to talk about. He is also a rather conservative kid (atleast from a soon to be 18 year old) and even he can see the "bend the knee" demeanor from our Marxist-like administration and faculty.
Last week at breakfast he said that maybe he will go to A&M for graduate school, law school, etc as if he was almost apologizing to me that A&M wont be in his immediate future. After that conversation I have come to realize how unfortunate it is that kids like him all over Texas are looking elsewhere. These are kids that fit the Aggie mold (or atleast the mold that I knew) and would have made incredible representatives of our school.
Yep, he certainly does not like A&M.@coopercuffe said:your son may just not like A&M, because kids in Texas are certainly not looking to go elsewhere. record number of applications this year & nearly everybody I know is currently sweating a decision from A&M.BoDog said:
Certainly. I am letting him make the decision, but SMU for example has a top flight business school (Cox) with close knit alumni network (albeit mostly in Dallas), gorgeous campus and obviously much smaller in size. He has that big fish in a small pond personality/preference.
He has grown up going to Aggie games since he was in kindergarten, has a ton of maroon and white in the closet, loves Jimbo, follows recruiting, etc. When this process started I just sort of imagined he would pick A&M, however I think he has come to realize that today's 68,000 student A&M isnt anything like the A&M his old man used to talk about. He is also a rather conservative kid (atleast from a soon to be 18 year old) and even he can see the "bend the knee" demeanor from our Marxist-like administration and faculty.
Last week at breakfast he said that maybe he will go to A&M for graduate school, law school, etc as if he was almost apologizing to me that A&M wont be in his immediate future. After that conversation I have come to realize how unfortunate it is that kids like him all over Texas are looking elsewhere. These are kids that fit the Aggie mold (or atleast the mold that I knew) and would have made incredible representatives of our school.
Honestly Tech is benefiting most from those not able to get into A&M and Texas but want to stay in state.BoDog said:
Certainly. I am letting him make the decision, but SMU for example has a top flight business school (Cox) with close knit alumni network (albeit mostly in Dallas), gorgeous campus and obviously much smaller in size. He has that big fish in a small pond personality/preference.
He has grown up going to Aggie games since he was in kindergarten, has a ton of maroon and white in the closet, loves Jimbo, follows recruiting, etc. When this process started I just sort of imagined he would pick A&M, however I think he has come to realize that today's 68,000 student A&M isnt anything like the A&M his old man used to talk about. He is also a rather conservative kid (atleast from a soon to be 18 year old) and even he can see the "bend the knee" demeanor from our Marxist-like administration and faculty.
Last week at breakfast he said that maybe he will go to A&M for graduate school, law school, etc as if he was almost apologizing to me that A&M wont be in his immediate future. After that conversation I have come to realize how unfortunate it is that kids like him all over Texas are looking elsewhere. These are kids that fit the Aggie mold (or atleast the mold that I knew) and would have made incredible representatives of our school.
Yep, it is a strange dichotomy. Completely agree. I think it is the size of SMU that is appealing in a way he never really recognized before-as all his experiences have been with large state schools. Honestly as much as A&M has changed I bet the cultural divide isnt as big as some would think (unfortunately).powerbelly said:Honestly Tech is benefiting most from those not able to get into A&M and Texas but want to stay in state.BoDog said:
Certainly. I am letting him make the decision, but SMU for example has a top flight business school (Cox) with close knit alumni network (albeit mostly in Dallas), gorgeous campus and obviously much smaller in size. He has that big fish in a small pond personality/preference.
He has grown up going to Aggie games since he was in kindergarten, has a ton of maroon and white in the closet, loves Jimbo, follows recruiting, etc. When this process started I just sort of imagined he would pick A&M, however I think he has come to realize that today's 68,000 student A&M isnt anything like the A&M his old man used to talk about. He is also a rather conservative kid (atleast from a soon to be 18 year old) and even he can see the "bend the knee" demeanor from our Marxist-like administration and faculty.
Last week at breakfast he said that maybe he will go to A&M for graduate school, law school, etc as if he was almost apologizing to me that A&M wont be in his immediate future. After that conversation I have come to realize how unfortunate it is that kids like him all over Texas are looking elsewhere. These are kids that fit the Aggie mold (or atleast the mold that I knew) and would have made incredible representatives of our school.
If SMU is attractive then I am not sure how much he would really like attending A&M (affinity for games not withstanding).
The culture at SMU is so different than A&M I can't image a person who loves one really liking the other for undergrad.
There is a huge Southern California contingent at SMU. It is the backup school for kids looking at USC and UCLA. A lot more hard drugs floating around SMU and much more attempting to show off status.BoDog said:Yep, it is a strange dichotomy. Completely agree. I think it is the size of SMU that is appealing in a way he never really recognized before-as all his experiences have been with large state schools. Honestly as much as A&M has changed I bet the cultural divide isnt as big as some would think (unfortunately).powerbelly said:Honestly Tech is benefiting most from those not able to get into A&M and Texas but want to stay in state.BoDog said:
Certainly. I am letting him make the decision, but SMU for example has a top flight business school (Cox) with close knit alumni network (albeit mostly in Dallas), gorgeous campus and obviously much smaller in size. He has that big fish in a small pond personality/preference.
He has grown up going to Aggie games since he was in kindergarten, has a ton of maroon and white in the closet, loves Jimbo, follows recruiting, etc. When this process started I just sort of imagined he would pick A&M, however I think he has come to realize that today's 68,000 student A&M isnt anything like the A&M his old man used to talk about. He is also a rather conservative kid (atleast from a soon to be 18 year old) and even he can see the "bend the knee" demeanor from our Marxist-like administration and faculty.
Last week at breakfast he said that maybe he will go to A&M for graduate school, law school, etc as if he was almost apologizing to me that A&M wont be in his immediate future. After that conversation I have come to realize how unfortunate it is that kids like him all over Texas are looking elsewhere. These are kids that fit the Aggie mold (or atleast the mold that I knew) and would have made incredible representatives of our school.
If SMU is attractive then I am not sure how much he would really like attending A&M (affinity for games not withstanding).
The culture at SMU is so different than A&M I can't image a person who loves one really liking the other for undergrad.
double said:
Are you still an admission consultant? Do you have a child applying to TAMU?
Yes, I have successfully placed several transfer students into Texas A&M (business, architecture, engineering, etc.).specul8or said:
Do you help transfer students also?
