double b said:

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double said:

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Are you still an admission consultant? Do you have a child applying to TAMU?

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I'm an educational consultant, and I typically help about 20 - 25 students each year apply to Texas A&M and to colleges nationally.

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We paid a consultant about $2000 to help my daughter find a school. As a chemistry major, there were only 50 or so in each class. Even at 44K students, my classes were taught by research faculty. I keep up with several of them to this day. I never really understood, and now I panic thinking about, what it must be like to have thousands of people in your major. Even at the highest levels, you're still just a number. You graduate in a sea of anonymity. If you sink, nobody cares.

When I was a senior, my advisor called me on a Sunday afternoon because he noticed I was missing 3 hours to graduate. I told him I was taking a seminary course, and it would transfer in. Again, I never knew it while I was there, but today I can't fathom those years without a personal touch.

The consultant was well worth the money. Every private school in the state except unicorn Rice offered my daughter the same deal as A&M. They all magically offer scholarships that make them on par with full cost at A&M. The consultant found a small college out of state in an awesome place that will prepare her for grad school...maybe at A&M, where the world can finally shrink to its right size.

Go ahead. Look elsewhere. A&M won't care. They aren't capable of doing so.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Arkansas, OSU, and OU seem to be benefitting a lot more than Tech. From where I've seen DFW kids going as 2nd choices (namely very solid Plano West kids), Tech has fallen well behind those 3. I know the point above was about those staying in state, but those 3 are basically providing in state prices to decent students which has helped them leap in front of TT.

And the point above about making the TAMU network stronger is spot on -> the locations are largely a major detriment and overcoming that is very tough

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At my son's HS in Austin they are all about Arkansas and OU. My son can actually go to Arkansas cheaper than A&M because of the scholarship money and I know of at least 12 kids from his class going there, likely more will go there than A&M. New Mexico randomly offered him a $17k scholarship per year and he hadn't even applied.

Know several kids that went to Tech and they also offered my son a small scholarship. I've heard really mixed things from some who think it is like A&M 30 years ago to others that have said the area around school has gotten very unsafe. A friend of mine's son just transferred out of Tech as he got tired of feeling like he had to be careful in the area around campus and he just didn't like the culture. My son had previously looked at Tech but they didn't make the cut a ways back.

BTW, he is still waiting to hear on College Station but is pretty set on going to A&M Galveston at this point and doing the Marine Transportation License Option which is awesome by me, best paying major in the A&M System (and one of the highest of any Bachelor's level major you can find anywhere). Most of all he toured the Rudder and the classrooms and simulator and he was hooked, he loves the ocean and it's a very hands on job which suits him.

That is twice now this week that I heard the area around tech is ghettofied.

A friend's son has alway been a terrible student and didn't know if he was going to graduate HS until the last minute, yet got into Tech. No extracurriculars. Nothing to really put on a resume other than his ability to drink beer. They are taking anyone right now.

End of the story - He proceeded to go to Tech, quit after a year, and then moved back to Lubbock after the summer to chase his dream of being a UPS driver. No, I am not making that up.

Fore Left! said:

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A friend's son has alway been a terrible student and didn't know if he was going to graduate HS until the last minute, yet got into Tech. No extracurriculars. Nothing to really put on a resume other than his ability to drink beer. They are taking anyone right now.

End of the story - He proceeded to go to Tech, quit after a year, and then moved back to Lubbock after the summer to chase his dream of being a UPS driver. No, I am not making that up.

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Out of state flagship probably >>> Tech. But if you are a big fish, there's still potentially great value in taking Tech's money.

Arizona State has always been a diploma mill, but a bad lead to follow.

Fore Left! said:

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A friend's son has alway been a terrible student and didn't know if he was going to graduate HS until the last minute, yet got into Tech. No extracurriculars. Nothing to really put on a resume other than his ability to drink beer. They are taking anyone right now.

End of the story - He proceeded to go to Tech, quit after a year, and then moved back to Lubbock after the summer to chase his dream of being a UPS driver. No, I am not making that up.

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A fellow from my hometown...year ahead of me in high school,....it's 1979 at the Texas Hall of Fame...he tells me he is quitting A&M....to chase the same dream....UPS Driver earning $40K/yr at that time. Same here, not making it up. IIRC, at that same period PetE was best paying job out of A&M at $37K/yr. I don't remember this guy's major, but he felt there was no way that his major would catch the $40k and future opportunities. I told him stay and gut it out. He moved on. Decisions, decisions..

Where did your daughter end up? Only asking since our son was Chem all the way out of HS and it came down to NW or UW without a counselor.

AG81 said:

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Macarthur said:

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To the OP question, is the implication that A&M is less difficult?

I can tell you, my son is in Aerospace Engineering and I can attest that it's damn hard. He's a kid that is very smart and got a 35 on his ACT with no prep. He's doing good and making good grades but he's having to work his ass off.

So from that perspective, as long as the rigor remains, I'm not sure what it matters if they are pumping out diplomas. Can't speak to the other colleges though.

I know a couple of folks here have touched on it, but I'm not sure most folks realize just how many really really strong students Texas high schools are pumping out these days.

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Those who think A&M is a diploma mill simply because of its size haven't had their kids attend recently. All of mine did, and within the last 5 years. One is in a PhD program (a science), another in Medical School, and another in Law School. None were top 10% kids. If your definition of a "diploma mill" is one that graduates kids like mine, then I can live with the moniker. But we have nothing in common. I'll put Aggies graduating today up against graduates of any institution at any time. They more than hold their own.

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Definitely. Mine just graduated Biomedical Engineering last weekend. It was a challenge complicated even more as a transfer and COVID. They worked their butt off.

I would also add that if Texas A&M doesn't get back on track in competing with the nation's top public universities and stop with the insane growth/money grab, there are several UT system schools that would love to fill the void and are quite happy to see A&M follow the Arizona State model.

TAMU bball fan said:

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Texas A&M has a mission and serves the State of Texas as a Tier 1 Public Research University. It does not have a mission to become the most elite Public University in the country.

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According to who? Texas A&M's mission evolves to meet the needs of the state.

This isn't the 20th century when Texas had two public Tier One universities, a fraction of the population, and an oil & gas economy.

Today we have five public Tier Ones, plus 33 other universities to educate the masses. We're in competition with other states for a high-tech work force and good paying jobs. Texas needs Texas A&M to be elite, not just Tier One. Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Oracle all have a presence here but require top talent to grow that presence. They won't grow in Texas if they can't fill the roles, they'll grow in other states we're in competition with. And it's not just the tech industry - it's health care, finance, consulting, manufacturing, etc.

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Tier 1 designation is determined by the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education. According to it, there are actually 11 in Texas, 9 public and two private. They are, Texas A&M University, Texas Tech University, the University of Houston, the University of North Texas, the University of Texas at Arlington, the University of Texas at Austin, the University of Texas at Dallas, the University of Texas at El Paso, the University of Texas at San Antonio, Baylor University, and Rice University.

TAMU bball fan said:

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Quote:

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Texas A&M has a mission and serves the State of Texas as a Tier 1 Public Research University. It does not have a mission to become the most elite Public University in the country.

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According to who? Texas A&M's mission evolves to meet the needs of the state.

This isn't the 20th century when Texas had two public Tier One universities, a fraction of the population, and an oil & gas economy.

Today we have five public Tier Ones, plus 33 other universities to educate the masses. We're in competition with other states for a high-tech work force and good paying jobs. Texas needs Texas A&M to be elite, not just Tier One. Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Oracle all have a presence here but require top talent to grow that presence. They won't grow in Texas if they can't fill the roles, they'll grow in other states we're in competition with. And it's not just the tech industry - it's health care, finance, consulting, manufacturing, etc.

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I don't see why the two are mutually exclusive. There are certain majors that you don't want numbers to water things down, but there are also majors that the numbers probably aren't going to affect.

AG81 said:

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Macarthur said:

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To the OP question, is the implication that A&M is less difficult?

I can tell you, my son is in Aerospace Engineering and I can attest that it's damn hard. He's a kid that is very smart and got a 35 on his ACT with no prep. He's doing good and making good grades but he's having to work his ass off.

So from that perspective, as long as the rigor remains, I'm not sure what it matters if they are pumping out diplomas. Can't speak to the other colleges though.

I know a couple of folks here have touched on it, but I'm not sure most folks realize just how many really really strong students Texas high schools are pumping out these days.

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Those who think A&M is a diploma mill simply because of its size haven't had their kids attend recently. All of mine did, and within the last 5 years. One is in a PhD program (a science), another in Medical School, and another in Law School. None were top 10% kids. If your definition of a "diploma mill" is one that graduates kids like mine, then I can live with the moniker. But we have nothing in common. I'll put Aggies graduating today up against graduates of any institution at any time. They more than hold their own.

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100% this.

AG81 said:

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TAMU bball fan said:

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Quote:

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Texas A&M has a mission and serves the State of Texas as a Tier 1 Public Research University. It does not have a mission to become the most elite Public University in the country.

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According to who? Texas A&M's mission evolves to meet the needs of the state.

This isn't the 20th century when Texas had two public Tier One universities, a fraction of the population, and an oil & gas economy.

Today we have five public Tier Ones, plus 33 other universities to educate the masses. We're in competition with other states for a high-tech work force and good paying jobs. Texas needs Texas A&M to be elite, not just Tier One. Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Oracle all have a presence here but require top talent to grow that presence. They won't grow in Texas if they can't fill the roles, they'll grow in other states we're in competition with. And it's not just the tech industry - it's health care, finance, consulting, manufacturing, etc.

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Tier 1 designation is determined by the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education. According to it, there are actually 11 in Texas, 9 public and two private. They are, Texas A&M University, Texas Tech University, the University of Houston, the University of North Texas, the University of Texas at Arlington, the University of Texas at Austin, the University of Texas at Dallas, the University of Texas at El Paso, the University of Texas at San Antonio, Baylor University, and Rice University.

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The true measure of a Tier 1 is AAU Membership. That's A&M, Texas, and Rice. Any other measure is fluff.

We are building up the others, especially the schools in the UT System. UT Dallas and UTSA for instance have improved drastically and could become Tier 1 but it takes time. UT Dallas has really stepped up in Comp Sci for instance which is very much needed for the State.

TAMU bball fan said:

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Quote:

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Texas A&M has a mission and serves the State of Texas as a Tier 1 Public Research University. It does not have a mission to become the most elite Public University in the country.

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According to who? Texas A&M's mission evolves to meet the needs of the state.

This isn't the 20th century when Texas had two public Tier One universities, a fraction of the population, and an oil & gas economy.

Today we have five public Tier Ones, plus 33 other universities to educate the masses. We're in competition with other states for a high-tech work force and good paying jobs. Texas needs Texas A&M to be elite, not just Tier One. Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Oracle all have a presence here but require top talent to grow that presence. They won't grow in Texas if they can't fill the roles, they'll grow in other states we're in competition with. And it's not just the tech industry - it's health care, finance, consulting, manufacturing, etc.

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This.


And a whole lot of the "diploma mill" is public perception, whether right or wrong. Fact of the matter is that perception is going to be that a school with 75k or 100k students is much easier to get into and graduate from than a school with 40k students. That may not be the case at all, but that is the perception.

Just because A&M in College Station has room to grow doesn't mean that we *have* to grow. And growing because the population of the state is bigger or some other arbitrary measure isn't the right type of growth. There is a reason that most of the top tier ranked universities aren't 70k+ on enrollment and are relatively small and probably have maintained a somewhat stable enrollment throughout the years. And, frankly, if tu and Rice can't grow or refuse to grow - why is it incumbent on A&M to take up the slack?

I would like to see a chart of national rankings - say by Forbes or whomever - to see how it coincides with our enrollment growth. My gut tells me that our overall rankings are dropping as the enrollment increases.

Growing with purpose - and not the proverbial "the population has grown!" (because that doesn't seem to apply to other schools) is fine. Growing because you think it's a dick measuring contest is not, and unfortunately most people see our growth as exactly that - a dick measuring contest and little more.

My daughter had that same issue about going to A&M, thinking it was too big and impersonal. Her first choice was William and Mary, but rejected her even though she was straight A's and lots of community service, and top of her class, so she went to A&M. She was able to find her small group of friends in her honor dorm, meet her future husband there and love it. She ended up getting two majors and a free ride to UT Dallas for her masters and PhD. She is now a tenured professor at UNT. Big can sometimes end up small.

Maybe your answer about growth is that we are a public university unlike Rice that can set limits and has others have said tu is land locked. Can you imagine what the state legislature would do if we decided to limit our admission?