Engineering Math Placement Exam Requirement

8,082 Views | 20 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by pillow
Ol army 92
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Oldest is headed to NSC this week and, long story short, did not do well on the MPE and it seems that he will be required to take Pre-Calc in his first semester.

He took Calc AP/BC senior year and made a low B at a competitive suburban HS. He will not have his AP scores before he registers.

He is taking an online refresher course through A&M to get that score up but he registers this week. It's surprising to me that this exam controls so much. He has very few friends headed to A&M that are "allowed" to register for Calc including kids who made high A's in BC.

Has anyone dealt with this and will he be able take Calc in the fall? Thanks!
AggieAdvisor16
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The MPE score will determine what math class he can register for at his NSC. Once the AP scores come in, he's free to take the credit and then register for a different math class. I don't recommend doing that, but that's his choice. Some students also retake the MPE at the end of the summer and do better. The MPE is the best indicator of what level math course a student will be successful in. Lots of students think they're an exception, and some are; most are not though.
HECUBUS
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Just to present an opposing viewpoint A friend placed out of several classes at UM (EE) and his dad talked him into taking the classes instead of the credits. Worst grades on his transcript. If you can place out of it, it's usually a weed out class.

Ours placed out of all physics and math other than linear algebra because there is no AP test for linear algebra. He has no regrets other than having to take linear algebra again.

Personally, I would take the math classes. Those were the easiest grades in EE for me.
Ol army 92
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Thanks to both of you. If he places out via AP he will be taking the credit and moving on. We've gotten that advice from Professors and students.

I'm just having a hard time understanding what's going on with the MPE test. My son loves math and does well in a very challenging school. To do as poorly as he did was a bit of a shock. Anecdotally, we are only aware of 1 Calc BC student at his school that passed the test. Met a family from Frisco yesterday on campus that said the same thing happened at their school.

So was it Covid (we only had 1 month of virtual), kids just aren't ready this year or is it A&M trying to slow down the degree plans to squeeze another semester? Not sure. It just feels off.
Mookie
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My son Just registered for full calc, he passed the MPE on the first try. Low B student at a 6A suburban austin HS. He is TEAB, out of the 80 or so kids in his engineering breakout room only 4 had passed MPE.
b0ridi
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Massive amounts of cheating, grade inflation, and lowered standards the last three semesters due to the pandemic. Not surprising that students are having trouble on standardized tests. Good for A&M for upholding standards.
Chrundle the Great
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Ol army 92 said:

Thanks to both of you. If he places out via AP he will be taking the credit and moving on. We've gotten that advice from Professors and students.

I'm just having a hard time understanding what's going on with the MPE test. My son loves math and does well in a very challenging school. To do as poorly as he did was a bit of a shock. Anecdotally, we are only aware of 1 Calc BC student at his school that passed the test. Met a family from Frisco yesterday on campus that said the same thing happened at their school.

So was it Covid (we only had 1 month of virtual), kids just aren't ready this year or is it A&M trying to slow down the degree plans to squeeze another semester? Not sure. It just feels off.

Maybe the placement exam has changed, but when I took it I had very similar circumstances. AP score of 4 in Calc AB, but I flunked the placement exam the week before the deadline and had to take Pre-calc. It's actually a pretty hard exam and timed.

After failing it, I realized that the "study guide" was almost question for question exactly the exam. I didn't study because I thought "well I know calculus so I'm fine". Early lesson on college courses and good study habits for me.

Anyways, if he can place out of pre calc *and* still get in a calc time-slot this semester I'd do it, Pre calc was a waste of time but at least an easy a for me. If his other option is place out, but don't take math this semester because all the spots are full I would advise against that Calculus is one of those skills that it helps to be continuously using it to keep it fresh. Better off just getting the easy pre calc a and staying fresh for calc 1 (or 2).

Edit to add: If he's in engineering, pay close attention to which ENG101 time slot you get. Again, could've changed, but they had special time slots for Precal kids that I wasn't allowed to choose outside of. We definitely had a different eng101 experience than the slots with all calc1/2 kids
jmoritz89
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Chrundle the Great said:

Ol army 92 said:

Thanks to both of you. If he places out via AP he will be taking the credit and moving on. We've gotten that advice from Professors and students.

I'm just having a hard time understanding what's going on with the MPE test. My son loves math and does well in a very challenging school. To do as poorly as he did was a bit of a shock. Anecdotally, we are only aware of 1 Calc BC student at his school that passed the test. Met a family from Frisco yesterday on campus that said the same thing happened at their school.

So was it Covid (we only had 1 month of virtual), kids just aren't ready this year or is it A&M trying to slow down the degree plans to squeeze another semester? Not sure. It just feels off.

Maybe the placement exam has changed, but when I took it I had very similar circumstances. AP score of 4 in Calc AB, but I flunked the placement exam the week before the deadline and had to take Pre-calc. It's actually a pretty hard exam and timed.

After failing it, I realized that the "study guide" was almost question for question exactly the exam. I didn't study because I thought "well I know calculus so I'm fine". Early lesson on college courses and good study habits for me.

Anyways, if he can place out of pre calc *and* still get in a calc time-slot this semester I'd do it, Pre calc was a waste of time but at least an easy a for me. If his other option is place out, but don't take math this semester because all the spots are full I would advise against that Calculus is one of those skills that it helps to be continuously using it to keep it fresh. Better off just getting the easy pre calc a and staying fresh for calc 1 (or 2).

Edit to add: If he's in engineering, pay close attention to which ENG101 time slot you get. Again, could've changed, but they had special time slots for Precal kids that I wasn't allowed to choose outside of. We definitely had a different eng101 experience than the slots with all calc1/2 kids
Where can you get the study guide?
Chrundle the Great
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If I remember correctly (not my strong suit) it was a link in the instructions on taking the exam somewhere, like a hyperlink. I think I remember it being on Howdy.
jmoritz89
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Chrundle the Great said:

If I remember correctly (not my strong suit) it was a link in the instructions on taking the exam somewhere, like a hyperlink. I think I remember it being on Howdy.
You only get on the Howdy Portal once you have been accepted correct?
Chrundle the Great
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I didn't take the placement exam until I was well past accepted because I took it maybe 2 weeks before NSCs. And I think the placement exam was taken on howdy or at least directed to from it, maybe that has changed.
AggieAdvisor16
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The MPE is now taken in a proctored environment at the student's NSC because of the rampant cheating that was taking place when students could take it on their own.
Chrundle the Great
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AggieAdvisor16 said:

The MPE is now taken in a proctored environment at the student's NSC because of the rampant cheating that was taking place when students could take it on their own.

Well there you have it, I guess I was the only one not cheating on it.
jmoritz89
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Sounds like they were cheating poorly.
WhoHe
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My daughter just went through this made A's in pre-cal as a junior, made A's in AP stats as a senior, scored a 4 on her AP stats exam, but scored a 19 on her MPE back in May (22 required to "pass"). So at her NSC she couldn't register chemistry or calculus, which sucked

She registered for the TAMU PPP course they offer, which was 3 weeks, M-F, 8:30-10:30a, and re-took the test last week scored a 26. So now she's enrolled in all the classes she needed, but her schedule options were pretty limited at this time.

Also, as a side note - they don't require you to take the proctored MPE at your NSC - you can, of course, but they also still offer it in an online proctored environment. That's the way she took it both times.
TheMasterplan
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I'm ten years out of uni and just looked up a practice test when looking into it on college of engineering from google.

This is from the math department so it might differ slightly but I imagine there's a lot of crossover. I definitely can not doing many of those problems anymore.

I knew people that took credit from BC and ended up transferring to business so I trust A&M on this.

I got low Bs and Cs in pre cal and calc in HS and retook calc I and II. Aced Calc I and got a C in calc II.


Old Army Ghost
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parents let your kids fight these fights for themselves

they dint need helicopter parents in college
wxmanX
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Must have been easy.

I had A+ Calc in High School
A+ Calc 1 A&M
C Calc 2
F Calc 3, retook it got a C
B DE.

redcrayon
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Does anyone ever question the instruction at their child's "competitive suburban high school?" Maybe it's the population of top students and not the actual instruction that makes these schools "competitive."
aggie93
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Old Army Ghost said:

parents let your kids fight these fights for themselves

they dint need helicopter parents in college
Couldn't disagree more with this mentality. I had great parents and Dad was a huge Aggie but he had no guidance about anything school related in terms of academics. Made so many mistakes not understanding how to manage classes, look up profs, how to Q Drop, what classes to take at CC. After Freshman year I was sitting basically at a 2.0 and had to change my Major from Business to POLS with a MGMT Minor as my options had been limited. Started to figure things out and was 3.0 and above from there on out but the damage was done. With some planning and knowledge I could have graduated with the Business Degree I wanted and a much higher GPA. Turned out fine in the end but had a much harder road than I needed.

My elder son is a Freshman at Galveston doing Marine Transportation. He only took Pre Cal in HS but nearly got into 142 on the test. He went ahead and took 140 and 142 in Summer School at CC though just to get them out of the way and it's worked beautifully. His classmates are struggling in Math and he's done with it and able to focus on his other classes and has all A's. About a month in he decided to sign up for Physics online at CC as well and is knocking it out without pressure to make an A (though he is doing well in it anyway) and will take his 2nd Semester of Physics there as well by the same method. If he were STEM I wouldn't recommend it but for him this is all the pure Math and Science he will have. It's allowing him to take more electives in MART for different specialties and get a Marine Business Minor too and still graduate in 4 years as he had some additional Dual Credit from HS too. He's also likely to be able to keep a high GPA by being very strategic with his classes.

Younger son is a Sophomore in HS and academically very strong and high class rank so he should be auto admit barring a total collapse. He's Engineering all the way and currently crushing Pre AP Pre Cal so he will be through AP Cal II as a Senior. He should end up with a very high Math SAT score based on his Freshman PSAT and is really hoping for National Merit next year but it's hard to know as the margin for error is so small, would be huge for scholarships. Not sure what is going to be the best path for him in Math at A&M, he could likely take Cal III at CC or something the Summer before but I want to make sure he doesn't go so fast he screws himself by getting into heavy Engineering Classes too quickly without the right foundation. He wants to do Biomedical Engineering or possibly Mechanical and knows he will go to Grad school either in Engineering or possibly and MD or EnMed so it's a long path. Trying to figure out the right balance. Also looking at other college options for him either for "Reach" schools or scholarship money.

The point though is I got very involved with both of my boys to help them figure out their path and how to be ahead of the game and it's paid off big for them so far. They are happy and have a lot of options in front of them that they almost certainly would not have had without being actively engaged and showing them options and how to maximize their academic plan.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
pillow
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From my experience, if your MPE test suggests pre-cal, you need to do a serious self- assessment on your major.

Full disclosure- took AP calc in high school and repeated same class as a freshman (easy A class). Diff EQ and stat kicked my ass however.

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