Another Reason Dual-Citizenship Is a Problem for the US

1,639 Views | 28 Replies | Last: 1 day ago by Vestal_Flame
UTExan
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Quote:

A former senior budget official for Connecticut's Democratic governor is now a fugitive in Greece after fleeing the U.S. by boat and plane ahead of his sentencing for corruption, his lawyer and prosecutors told a federal judge on Thursday.

Konstantinos "Kosta" Diamantis
, 70, also sent his attorney a 10-page email accusing Gov. Ned Lamont of weaponizing the justice system against him, denying wrongdoing and saying his life, reputation and family relationships were ruined by the prosecution. He could have faced more than 10 years in prison at his sentencing Thursday in federal court in Bridgeport.

Diamantis, who was also a former Democratic state representative, was convicted by a federal jury last year of extorting private contractors for thousands of dollars in bribes from 2018 to 2021, in exchange for helping the companies keep and obtain work on multimillion-dollar school construction contracts. He told reporters at the time that he was afraid to go to prison.

The prospects of returning Diamantis who holds both American and Greek citizenship to the U.S. are unclear. Greek courts have upheld the claim that extradition of Greek nationals is forbidden.

https://apnews.com/article/corruption-trial-fugitive-diamantis-greece-3f3f0a411f5c2999da7e72b1f9eecc82


So the guy takes a boat trip to the Bahamas (not needing a US passport), by then obtaining a Greek passport, boards a flight for London and back to Greece, from which he cannot be legally extradited. Genius escape plane, of course. He is 70 years old so his US family can liquidate some real estate assets to support him in his final years and he spends his last few years relaxing in the Mediterranean sun.

And we could have avoided all this by not allowing people to have dual nationality; it is a legal escape route for those convicted of crimes.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
Tex100
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Spiro T. Agnew wishes he had thought of this.
BMX Bandit
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Quote:

And we could have avoided all this by not allowing people to have dual nationality; it is a legal escape route for those convicted of crimes.

how so?

from what I can tell, this guy was born in the US. he has greek citizenship by birth to greek parents.

so even if US said dual citizenship was illegal, that has no bearing on who greece considers citizens.
YouBet
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Drone him.
normalhorn
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YouBet said:

Drone him.


Hey, Mr Obama :-)
...take it easy on me, I'm a normal horn
HalifaxAg
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...if only we had laws that heavily taxed sending money overseas...could solve a lot of other problems too
Vestal_Flame
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Quote:

And we could have avoided all this by not allowing people to have dual nationality;


There is really not a practical way to forbid a foreign country from bestowing citizenship on an American citizen.

To put some perspective around the numbers, something like 1/4 of the population of New England has dual citizenship with Canada.

The (worldwide) number of analogous 'dormant Italians' is equal to the population living within the territorial boundaries of the Italian Republic.
AgNav93
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It's simple. You tell them you can be an American citizen or citizen of whatever country. But you can't be both. Choose. I know it will never happen, but, hey one can dream.
Serotonin
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AgNav93 said:

It's simple. You tell them you can be an American citizen or citizen of whatever country. But you can't be both. Choose. I know it will never happen, but, hey one can dream.

The issue would be if another country 'bestows' it on you. Maybe you don't even know about it or know how to renounce it.

But pursuing citizenship in another country? No bueno. Even though it would be hard to enforce that doesn't mean we couldn't prohibit it with the threat of losing American citizenship if it's discovered. That is pretty good incentive not to pursue other citizenships.
Vestal_Flame
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AgNav93 said:

It's simple. You tell them you can be an American citizen or citizen of whatever country. But you can't be both. Choose. I know it will never happen, but, hey one can dream.


How do you do that?

I was born in Houston in 1976. I knew that I had been born with American citizenship, like all of my parents and grandparents.

In 2016, I discovered that my great-grandfather had never naturalized, and Italian law declares that I am also a citizen of the Italian Republic.

So, if a law of the United States required me to renounce, I would not even have known that I was subject to the law.
The Sun
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Vestal_Flame said:

AgNav93 said:

It's simple. You tell them you can be an American citizen or citizen of whatever country. But you can't be both. Choose. I know it will never happen, but, hey one can dream.


How do you do that?

I was born in Houston in 1976. I knew that I had been born with American citizenship, like all of my parents and grandparents.

In 2016, I discovered that my great-grandfather had never naturalized, and Italian law declares that I am also a citizen of the Italian Republic.

So, if a law of the United States required me to renounce, I would not even have known that I was subject to the law.


Didn't you have to pursue your Italian citizenship to make it official though (i.e. get your passport, etc)? In other words, you have to recognize that they regard you as a citizen.
Shooter McGavin
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Tex100 said:

Spiro T. Agnew wishes he had thought of this.

I tell you what ol' Spiro would call most Aggie sports fans - nattering nabobs of negativism!
UTExan
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Vestal_Flame said:

AgNav93 said:

It's simple. You tell them you can be an American citizen or citizen of whatever country. But you can't be both. Choose. I know it will never happen, but, hey one can dream.


How do you do that?

I was born in Houston in 1976. I knew that I had been born with American citizenship, like all of my parents and grandparents.

In 2016, I discovered that my great-grandfather had never naturalized, and Italian law declares that I am also a citizen of the Italian Republic.

So, if a law of the United States required me to renounce, I would not even have known that I was subject to the law.

You should have to choose: Italian or US citizenship. I would not even think about pursuing Dutch or French or British citizenship despite having ancestral ties to these countries.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
BMX Bandit
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asking again

Quote:

And we could have avoided all this by not allowing people to have dual nationality; it is a legal escape route for those convicted of crimes.

how so?

from what I can tell, this guy was born in the US. he has greek citizenship by birth to greek parents.

so even if US said dual citizenship was illegal, that has no bearing on who greece considers to be a citizen
Pichael Thompson
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Dual citizenship is a great option in the back pocket considering how fast this country is going down the ****ter

I recommend it to anyone that has the option
AgNav93
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Vestal_Flame said:

AgNav93 said:

It's simple. You tell them you can be an American citizen or citizen of whatever country. But you can't be both. Choose. I know it will never happen, but, hey one can dream.


How do you do that?

I was born in Houston in 1976. I knew that I had been born with American citizenship, like all of my parents and grandparents.

In 2016, I discovered that my great-grandfather had never naturalized, and Italian law declares that I am also a citizen of the Italian Republic.

So, if a law of the United States required me to renounce, I would not even have known that I was subject to the law.

When I was in the Air Force we had a guy with dual citizenship, Mexico and US. Back then you could not get a TS clearance with that. I believe it was the State Department he had to talk to but there is a process to denounce any citizenship from another country without them having any say. This was like 30 years ago.
CheeseSndwch
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Can the next dual citizenship complaint thread be about how Americans with dual citizenship are required to file a U.S. tax return and report worldwide income annually, regardless of where they live?
ThunderCougarFalconBird
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Tex100 said:

Spiro T. Agnew wishes he had thought of this.



Also, I have a friend that was recently naturalized. Had to resign Mexican citizenship. Don't know if that's common now or what the US wants.
Ducks4brkfast
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BMX Bandit said:

asking again

Quote:

And we could have avoided all this by not allowing people to have dual nationality; it is a legal escape route for those convicted of crimes.

how so?

from what I can tell, this guy was born in the US. he has greek citizenship by birth to greek parents.

so even if US said dual citizenship was illegal, that has no bearing on who greece considers to be a citizen

I think the issue is the court either did not know he had dual, or he received it all while waiting sentencing.

Had the court known that to be the case, it would have likely adjusted the calculus they used WRT his potentially fleeing the country.
BMX Bandit
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thats a different issue though. even if we outlawed dual citizenship (which I am fine with) that doesn't change that Greece would have let this guy get a passport as a citizen.

Also, looks like the court did know:
Quote:



Diamantis told the judge that he had obtained a Greek passport, but was not in possession of it. He said it was connected to efforts to claim inherited property in Greece and that the passport had been sent there for that purpose.

https://www.ctinsider.com/connecticut/article/kosta-diamantis-greek-passport-5-things-to-know-22436384.php
Ducks4brkfast
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BMX Bandit said:

thats a different issue though. even if we outlawed dual citizenship (which I am fine with) that doesn't change that Greece would have let this guy get a passport as a citizen.

Also, looks like the court did know:
Quote:



Diamantis told the judge that he had obtained a Greek passport, but was not in possession of it. He said it was connected to efforts to claim inherited property in Greece and that the passport had been sent there for that purpose.

https://www.ctinsider.com/connecticut/article/kosta-diamantis-greek-passport-5-things-to-know-22436384.php

I know it's a different issue. I'm not wasting time discussing outlawing dual citizenship. This is on the court. Dummies.
Aggie97
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Yes Greece will not extradite him but he can be prosecuted in Greece if it is a crime there(it is). Trust me you from what i hear you don't want to be sent to a Greek jail.

Does Greece Extradite To The United States? Treaty Loopholes Revealed - Encyclopedia Hellenica

Vestal_Flame
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Pichael Thompson said:

Dual citizenship is a great option in the back pocket considering how fast this country is going down the ****ter

I recommend it to anyone that has the option


Careful. I had my patriotism questioned, for merely asserting that during the Biden administration I had wanted to know where the fire exits are located.
Vestal_Flame
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AgNav93 said:

It's simple. You tell them you can be an American citizen or citizen of whatever country. But you can't be both. Choose. I know it will never happen, but, hey one can dream.


You would need to amend The Constitution to do that. You cannot lawfully "de-naturalize" someone who is born in this country.
Vestal_Flame
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If anybody is really interested in this topic, I recommend, "The Golden Passport" by Kristin Surak.
Vestal_Flame
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Quote:

. Didn't you have to pursue your Italian citizenship to make it official though (i.e. get your passport, etc)?


I went to court in Naples for paper documentation of the status of my family, much as I would go to the court in Texas for documentation that I had inherited your father's truck by operation of the law.

My legal right as my father's heir was perfectly official before I received that documentation, but the documentation makes it a lot easier to sell his truck.

Mostly, this adventure started as a raised middle finger in bitter response to the assertion that I was not "Italian enough," because I was raised as a Protestant.

I guess that you could "make dual citizenship illegal" by making it "illegal for a US citizen to request from a foreign power the documentation of pre-existing nationality rights under foreign law." It would have been a different case if I had "requested naturalization from a foreign power." The reality is that I requested documentation of a pre-existing legal status.
ABATTBQ11
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You can renounce it all you want, but whether they recognize it is up to them. Americans cannot easily renounce citizenship.
The Sun
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Please know I was not attacking in any way. I just wanted clarification.

That said, would your rights in Italy have been recognized without official documentation?
Vestal_Flame
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The Sun said:

Please know I was not attacking in any way. I just wanted clarification.


No attack taken.

Quote:

That said, would your rights in Italy have been recognized without official documentation?


No. In order to get an Italian consulate to issue an Italian passport, or to allow voting in an Italian election, you have to be on a registry of Italian citizens living abroad (Anagrafe degli Italiani Residenti all'Estero - A.I.R.E.).

My understanding is that you can register for an appointment to go to the consulate in Houston, show them your genealogical records, and they put you on that list. Then you can request a passport and vote.

It's hypothetically simple and informal, but my experience was neither simple nor informal.

As a practical matter, I could not get an appointment. Demand for appointments vastly exceeds supply of appointments.

But I could file suit in Naples for an equivalent court order, which I did in 2023.

I received a verdict in 2025.

My lawyer is now taking that verdict to my ancestral village, to have my existence, and that of grandfather, mother, and my children, recorded in the civil register. We hope to complete that process in late 2026.

With the certificate of that registration in the civil register, I can then be placed on the AIRE list.

I hope to have this done in time to vote in 2027.
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