Highland Park Methodist Lawsuit

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YouBet
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9:26a, 8/15/26
AG
https://www.umnews.org/en/news/conference-sues-its-largest-congregation

Putting this here because it's political. What's the word on the street with this from Dallasites? I guess there is a lawsuit against them by some congregation group protesting that HPUMC changed their articles of incorporation back in 2022 without running it through "proper procedure". They also removed instances of United Methodist Church from all of their official documents and are now just HPMC.

My interpretation of what's happened here is that HPMC quietly tried to disassociate itself with the UM church because of its gay stance, but tried to thread the needle in doing so. As the largest Methodist congregation in Texas sitting in the middle of urban Dallas, I'm sure outright leaving the UMC back when they had the official window to do it would have caused a massive political uproar that they wanted to avoid. In addition, the UMC owns all/most of the assets in their arrangement with their local churches, if I'm recalling correctly. Thus, they did it behind the scenes to avoid the political uproar and to try and separate without losing everything?

FTR, we were members there and I was unaware this had happened.
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Ag CPA
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12:27p, 8/15/26
AG
Having witnessed first-hand the split of All Saints from the Episcopal church (for similar reasons) and the subsequent litigation over in FW years ago I'd say get buckled in for a ****-show.

As noted elsewhere the primary fight will be over who gets the real estate.
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TresPuertas
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12:47p, 8/15/26
AG
This one is pretty interesting because HPMC, while being in the middle of Dallas, is EXTREME in member wealth and subsequently, its members are also overwhelmingly Conservative.

I know of an instance where a very generous member who was a significant contributor to the church sent a check with a note attached that read "No ****" (british cigarettes).

The real estate where the church sits is also worth MILLIONS, so while the UMC went insane they also didn't want to lose this congregation and get into a fight over the property.

But like anything the leftist mindset infects, it couldn't help itself and destroyed the UMC. knowing its most generous and wealthy would likely walk away they decided to go full steam ahead with their progressive agenda


I was a member of first united methodist Richardson for years. Got married there, baptized my children there, sent my kids to school there and memorialized family there. I wrote the head pastor with my concerns of the direction of the UMC and he basically told me, don't let the door hit you on the way out
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Burdizzo
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12:54p, 8/15/26
AG
Christianity shares a lot with communism. Sounds great up until the point of injecting human nature. Then people start arguing over material things.
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TrumpsBarber
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1:01p, 8/15/26
I belong to a UMC church in East Texas. Prior to the vote on disaffiliation, the pastor and asst. paster visited the Sunday School classes to "inform" us of the circumstances with their biased nuanced view. To disaffiliate, a congregation had to vote 66% in favor. Only 11% voted to disaffiliate in our church, but 50% walked over to a nearby Methodist church and joined them. That church congregation in Highland Park likely wanted to avoid the same fate and I don't blame them.
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TrumpsBarber
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1:04p, 8/15/26
p.s. We have a weekly lunch club of old men. 6 belong to the old church and 4 are members of the other Methodist church. We get along very well and talk freely about what is going on in each church. There are 3 more lunch club attendees who belong to other churches.
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RDV-1992
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In reply to Ag CPA • 1:04p, 8/15/26
Ag CPA said:
Having witnessed first-hand the split of All Saints from the Episcopal church (for similar reasons) and the subsequent litigation over in FW years ago I'd say get buckled in for a ****-show.

I thought this was a tragedy. But the ousted congregation bought a new church and will be moving into it early next year. And in the meantime they meet at the chapel at All Saints Episcopal School.
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Burdizzo
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In reply to TrumpsBarber • 1:12p, 8/15/26
AG
TrumpsBarber said:
I belong to a UMC church in East Texas. Prior to the vote on disaffiliation, the pastor and asst. paster visited the Sunday School classes to "inform" us of the circumstances with their biased nuanced view. To disaffiliate, a congregation had to vote 66% in favor. Only 11% voted to disaffiliate in our church, but 50% walked over to a nearby Methodist church and joined them. That church congregation in Highland Park likely wanted to avoid the same fate and I don't blame them.



That is how it often ends up. Seen it happen in some ELCA Lutheran churches too. There aren't enough votes to force the disaffiliation, but when those who want it leave after the vote there is not much left to have a healthy church.
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MAROON
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1:20p, 8/15/26
AG
Lived it for a # years at First Pres Houston. Finally took PCUSA to court and was able to walk away from that leftist inflicted denomination with all our property.
What do you boys want for breakfast BBQ ?.....OK Chili.
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Slicer97
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In reply to Burdizzo • 1:25p, 8/15/26
AG
Burdizzo said:
Christianity shares a lot with communism.


Not really. Quite a big difference between an individual making a choice and that individual being forcefully compelled to go along with a choice their government made for them.
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UTExan
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1:30p, 8/15/26
Sounds like the issue is the Highland Park church's adoption of new policies which run contrary to the Methodist Book of Discipline. I have subzero doubt that they already have legal counsel in a church that large and may be planning a jail break.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
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TrumpsBarber
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In reply to MAROON • 1:31p, 8/15/26
MAROON said:
Lived it for a # years at First Pres Houston. Finally took PCUSA to court and was able to walk away from that leftist inflicted denomination with all our property.

A Presbyterian church in my town got a lady pastor. She divorced her husband (amicably I am told) and took custody of their children and then "married" another woman. Two of the men in our lunch club told me that only 15 people remained in the congregation. Those two men joined that other Methodist church I just wrote about. They had been members for 30 years and raised their children during that time.
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Ellis Wyatt
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In reply to Burdizzo • 1:33p, 8/15/26
Burdizzo said:
Christianity shares a lot with communism. Sounds great up until the point of injecting human nature. Then people start arguing over material things.
kind of speaks to the point of needing a savior.

Churches are full of sinners. So is every other organization.
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TrumpsBarber
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In reply to UTExan • 1:33p, 8/15/26
UTExan said:
Sounds like the issue is the Highland Park church's adoption of new policies which run contrary to the Methodist Book of Discipline. I have subzero doubt that they already have legal counsel in a church that large and may be planning a jail break.

That would be very ironic. The split in the church was over the Western District ignoring the Methodist Book of Discipline and not being held accountable. That is they were choosing gay pastors and conducting gay weddings.
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ErnestEndeavor
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In reply to TrumpsBarber • 1:40p, 8/15/26
Exactly. Then instead of enforcing the rules, the majority allowed the minority quasi-Unitarans to take over the UMC.

Now you have a bunch of churches like this who didn't vote to disaffiliate because they didn't want to stir the pot and are now stuck dealing with this crap.

It seems like the church members will end up having to buy the property from the UMC if they want to disaffiliate and the price may be quite high. And that is only if the UMC is even willing to entertain the offer, which they are under no obligation.
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Jack Squat 83
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1:43p, 8/15/26
AG
Liberals ruin everything they touch don't they? Example #145,789

The division of this once-great nation marches onward to the abyss. Well done a-holes.
I don't think you know me.

ETA: Proud member of Billy's cesspool.
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YouBet
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In reply to ErnestEndeavor • 2:10p, 8/15/26
AG
ErnestEndeavor said:
Exactly. Then instead of enforcing the rules, the majority allowed the minority quasi-Unitarans to take over the UMC.

Now you have a bunch of churches like this who didn't vote to disaffiliate because they didn't want to stir the pot and are now stuck dealing with this crap.

It seems like the church members will end up having to buy the property from the UMC if they want to disaffiliate and the price may be quite high. And that is only if the UMC is even willing to entertain the offer, which they are under no obligation.


If you are truly Christian, the Bible has to take precedence over the denomination. Since the UMC has decided to renounce the Bible then I fully support HPMC leaving but obviously the nature of how the Methodists are organized and owned from an asset perspective make this a problem for HP.
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Burdizzo
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In reply to Ellis Wyatt • 2:15p, 8/15/26
AG
Ellis Wyatt said:
Burdizzo said:
Christianity shares a lot with communism. Sounds great up until the point of injecting human nature. Then people start arguing over material things.
kind of speaks to the point of needing a savior.

Churches are full of sinners. So is every other organization.


And the savior is not the pastor nor the building. But that is what much of the arguing is about.
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T dizl televizl
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2:56p, 8/15/26
AG
I'm a member but have zero insider knowledge on this just been keeping up with it.

My best guess is they changed this stuff as a hedge in case they wanted to leave the UMC in the future.

UMC has now caught on and is trying to strong arm them into staying since they are such a huge congregation and have financial strength.

All just guesses on my end trying to read between the lines.

Should be some fireworks pop off would be my guess.
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HumpitPuryear
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3:43p, 8/15/26
AG
The 2/3rds requirement was an intentional poison pill forced down the throats of congregants by the liberal UMC leadership. There were many churches where the majority rejected the heretics but not by a 2/3 majority. Sadly many in the 1/3 are not in favor of the progressive shift but were paralyzed by fear of change and just buried their heads in the sand. When more than half the members leave in the aftermath you no longer have a viable church.
I suspect that the conservative majority in this church recognized that it couldn't disassociate or they thought they were too big to get pushed around by UMC. Either way this is a slippery slope issue for UMC that if left to stand could open an eventual escape route for this church and president for future escapes. I expect UMC to fight it hard and aggressively which they appear to be doing. I hope and pray the Highland Park Methodists prevail against UMC.
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MAROON
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In reply to HumpitPuryear • 4:55p, 8/15/26
AG
We faced this at First Pres. the first vote failed to get the 2/3 majority by 15 votes.

The opposition the day of the vote showed up with busses of seniors from nursing homes who had not set foot in the church in years but were still on the rolls. Had one lady ask me when we had built the new modern worship facility - uhhhh 10 years ago.

Church leadership actually failed IMO opinion by not scrubbing the membership rolls.

Resulted in two years of pain as the vast majority wanted to leave and were hamstrung but a vocal group of liberals.
What do you boys want for breakfast BBQ ?.....OK Chili.
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OldArmy71
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5:33p, 8/15/26
AG
When the Methodist Church was going through this disaffiliation process several years ago, someone who spoke out quite a bit nationwide against disaffiliation was Adam Hamilton.

He is the senior pastor of the largest UMC in the country, in Kansas.

I read a fair amount about him and his beliefs and his defense of his position.

I found his arguments to be arrogant and threatening. His summary of the reasons that people wanted to leave was superficial and misleading. He rather happily pointed out that the UMC could use financial blackmail against those who wanted to leave.

(For the record, I wanted to leave the UMC because I did not want the money I contributed to go to the radical "progressive" causes it was going to when sent to the national church organization.)

Hamilton is now running as a "moderate" Democrat for Senate in Kansas.

I suspect he will do very well in the race. I hope he loses.
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FTAco07
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5:53p, 8/15/26
AG
No dog in the is hunt personally other than being friends with quite a few folks who go to HPUMC. If the national organization wants to pick a fight they have the wrong target. I would bet the combination of size and membership here may make this the richest church congregation in America. Lots of really good folks worship there and I'm sure they will do whatever it takes to do what is best for them.
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T dizl televizl
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6:06p, 8/15/26
AG
I'd have to sit down and think about it but there is also the SMU angle which makes it more complex.

If I remember correctly SMU was trying to back off their association with the UMC when all the "anti gay" stuff was happening as they were worried about it affecting enrollment.

I think technically the land that HPMC sits on is owned by SMU and they get to use it through a special deed which obviously would incentivize them to keep SMU happy (not that they wouldn't want to do that anyway) but would also prohibit the UMC from confiscating the land I think or make it more of a fight
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Squadron7
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In reply to Jack Squat 83 • 8:00a, 8/16/26
AG
Jack Squat 83 said:
Liberals ruin everything they touch don't they? Example #145,789


In their defense it is their actual purpose in the case of churches.
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ts5641
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In reply to Burdizzo • 8:19a, 8/16/26
Burdizzo said:
Christianity shares a lot with communism. Sounds great up until the point of injecting human nature. Then people start arguing over material things.

It's the opposite of communism. Because people are broken doesn't do anything to diminish Christianity. In fact, the brokenness of people is why we need Jesus. We can't do it on our own.
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ts5641
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In reply to YouBet • 8:21a, 8/16/26
We left the UMC church in 2012 after having attended my whole life and raising our kids in the church. We had a new pastor come in who was extremely liberal. He posted a pic of him shaking biden's hand on his Facebook profile. A group of us did a little digging and the UMC changed the wording on their stance on abortion. They became more agnostic on it. Also the PAC of the UMC bishops was donating to Soteroe's campaign.
We found an SBC church that isn't afraid to speak truth in a loving way, but always truth ever since.
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Owlagdad
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In reply to ts5641 • 8:41a, 8/16/26
ts5641 said:
We left the UMC church in 2012 after having attended my whole life and raising our kids in the church. We had a new pastor come in who was extremely liberal. He posted a pic of him shaking biden's hand on his Facebook profile. A group of us did a little digging and the UMC changed the wording on their stance on abortion. They became more agnostic on it. Also the PAC of the UMC bishops was donating to Soteroe's campaign.
We found an SBC church that isn't afraid to speak truth in a loving way, but always truth ever since.


Had a Baptist preacher tell me that the reason SBC is so conservative is that it is made up of conservatives who left liberal denominations. I am one who made fun of Baptists growing up and now am one.
I can remember back in 60s Dad throwing down the Methodist newspaper because the Methodists were supporting commies in Africa. It's always like Rush used to say, "liberals just think that things will always turn out peachy and rosy if we always just love one another etc". They are not good students of human nature.
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YouBet
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In reply to Owlagdad • 8:46a, 8/16/26
AG
Owlagdad said:
ts5641 said:
We left the UMC church in 2012 after having attended my whole life and raising our kids in the church. We had a new pastor come in who was extremely liberal. He posted a pic of him shaking biden's hand on his Facebook profile. A group of us did a little digging and the UMC changed the wording on their stance on abortion. They became more agnostic on it. Also the PAC of the UMC bishops was donating to Soteroe's campaign.
We found an SBC church that isn't afraid to speak truth in a loving way, but always truth ever since.


Had a Baptist preacher tell me that the reason SBC is so conservative is that it is made up of conservatives who left liberal denominations. I am one who made fun of Baptists growing up and now am one.
I can remember back in 60s Dad throwing down the Methodist newspaper because the Methodists were supporting commies in Africa. It's always like Rush used to say, "liberals just think that things will always turn out peachy and rosy if we always just love one another etc". They are not good students of human nature.

Our last church (that I only attended once primarily because I just wasn't that involved with the community) was a Baptist church. But we did not know until after my wife joined the church because it's not advertised.

The Baptist's apparently have this quick startup model for new churches. I forget the name of it, but essentially this model allows for the quick seeding of new churches in communities. The one we joined was essentially a Bible church and non-denominational, but it was seeded by the Baptists if you look at the fine print. I assume it's officially within the SBC, but not sure.
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Martin Cash
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In reply to YouBet • 8:50a, 8/16/26
AG
YouBet said:
Owlagdad said:
ts5641 said:
We left the UMC church in 2012 after having attended my whole life and raising our kids in the church. We had a new pastor come in who was extremely liberal. He posted a pic of him shaking biden's hand on his Facebook profile. A group of us did a little digging and the UMC changed the wording on their stance on abortion. They became more agnostic on it. Also the PAC of the UMC bishops was donating to Soteroe's campaign.
We found an SBC church that isn't afraid to speak truth in a loving way, but always truth ever since.


Had a Baptist preacher tell me that the reason SBC is so conservative is that it is made up of conservatives who left liberal denominations. I am one who made fun of Baptists growing up and now am one.
I can remember back in 60s Dad throwing down the Methodist newspaper because the Methodists were supporting commies in Africa. It's always like Rush used to say, "liberals just think that things will always turn out peachy and rosy if we always just love one another etc". They are not good students of human nature.

Our last church (that I only attended once primarily because I just wasn't that involved with the community) was a Baptist church. But we did not know until after my wife joined the church because it's not advertised.

The Baptist's apparently have this quick startup model for new churches. I forget the name of it, but essentially this model allows for the quick seeding of new churches in communities. The one we joined was essentially a Bible church and non-denominational, but it was seeded by the Baptists if you look at the fine print. I assume it's officially within the SBC, but not sure.

The Baptist church is for people who don't believe in organized religion.
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Burdizzo
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In reply to Martin Cash • 8:56a, 8/16/26
AG
Martin Cash said:
YouBet said:
Owlagdad said:
ts5641 said:
We left the UMC church in 2012 after having attended my whole life and raising our kids in the church. We had a new pastor come in who was extremely liberal. He posted a pic of him shaking biden's hand on his Facebook profile. A group of us did a little digging and the UMC changed the wording on their stance on abortion. They became more agnostic on it. Also the PAC of the UMC bishops was donating to Soteroe's campaign.
We found an SBC church that isn't afraid to speak truth in a loving way, but always truth ever since.


Had a Baptist preacher tell me that the reason SBC is so conservative is that it is made up of conservatives who left liberal denominations. I am one who made fun of Baptists growing up and now am one.
I can remember back in 60s Dad throwing down the Methodist newspaper because the Methodists were supporting commies in Africa. It's always like Rush used to say, "liberals just think that things will always turn out peachy and rosy if we always just love one another etc". They are not good students of human nature.

Our last church (that I only attended once primarily because I just wasn't that involved with the community) was a Baptist church. But we did not know until after my wife joined the church because it's not advertised.

The Baptist's apparently have this quick startup model for new churches. I forget the name of it, but essentially this model allows for the quick seeding of new churches in communities. The one we joined was essentially a Bible church and non-denominational, but it was seeded by the Baptists if you look at the fine print. I assume it's officially within the SBC, but not sure.

The Baptist church is for people who don't believe in organized religion.


Did you hear the one about the Baptist that got stranded alone on an island by himself?

When he was rescued, they found he had built three structures. The rescuers asked him about the three buildings. "The first building is my house. Since I am a Baptist, I had to build myself a place to go to church. That is the second building. That other building is where I used to go to church."
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Burdizzo
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In reply to ts5641 • 9:00a, 8/16/26
AG
ts5641 said:
Burdizzo said:
Christianity shares a lot with communism. Sounds great up until the point of injecting human nature. Then people start arguing over material things.

It's the opposite of communism. Because people are broken doesn't do anything to diminish Christianity. In fact, the brokenness of people is why we need Jesus. We can't do it on our own.


Y'all are missing the point. I didn't say the were the same. I said the human nature of arguing over material things is why they often fail. Plus communism is just destined to fail because it is dumb.

I just shared some common ground they share. Again, I didn't say they were the same thing, but I knew some people would read more into it than what was there. That is the Texags way.
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85aggie777
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In reply to ts5641 • 9:59a, 8/16/26
AG
ts5641 said:
We left the UMC church in 2012 after having attended my whole life and raising our kids in the church. We had a new pastor come in who was extremely liberal. He posted a pic of him shaking biden's hand on his Facebook profile. A group of us did a little digging and the UMC changed the wording on their stance on abortion. They became more agnostic on it. Also the PAC of the UMC bishops was donating to Soteroe's campaign.
We found an SBC church that isn't afraid to speak truth in a loving way, but always truth ever since.

We did the same in 2013. We could see the writing on the wall. I had been a life-long Methodist as had my Texas family for as far back as I can remember. The first Sunday I worshiped in a new church after we left, I was almost in tears knowing that I had to give that all up. But, God is much mightier than a man-made denomination.
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Ulysses90
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10:30a, 8/16/26
AG
On the present trajectory, the UMC will find itself owning a lot of real estate that was abandoned by parishioners who don't want to be part of the great falling away. The most likely buyers for those vacant buildings will be Muslims that will relish defiling it by converting them to mosques.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition"
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HumpitPuryear
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In reply to Ulysses90 • 10:50a, 8/16/26
AG
Ulysses90 said:
On the present trajectory, the UMC will find itself owning a lot of real estate that was abandoned by parishioners who don't want to be part of the great falling away. The most likely buyers for those vacant buildings will be Muslims that will relish defiling it by converting them to mosques.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition"

For UMC this is a feature not a problem. They care more about political activism than advancing Christianity. Proceeds from real estate will go straight to progressive candidates and causes. I remain convinced that this was one reason for the 2/3 rule. UMC knew this would kill off a lot of churches and that UMC would take possession under their trust cause and use it how they want.

If your policies are popular and you don't have nefarious intentions than you don't need unfair advantages like the 2/3 requirement. That's the bottom line and a clear and obvious testament to the character and purpose of the UMC.
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