Mas89 said:

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Texas state senator Charles Schwertner is the driving force behind trying to stop this nonsense. Build the gas fired power plants out there where they have plenty of natural gas and need the electricity.

The biggest problem is these companies having this much eminent domain power in Texas. Pipelines included in this discussion. Landowner groups have repeatedly tried to curtail this power but two men have repeatedly stopped legislation from being passed that would actually make a difference. Rick Perry and current 82 year old Tom Craddick from Midland, who is a state representative continually serving in the Texas legislature since 1969.
His daughter Cristy was luckily defeated in her state wide race this year.

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What does eminent domain have to do with data centers? They have zero eminent domain power.

As of now they don't but let's go over a hypothetical situation. Let's say a data center is getting built and they need to tie into a major natural gas line that isn't on the property they purchased for the data center. Let's say there are some land owners on the route to tie into the gas line and they refuse to give them an easement or right of way to said pipeline. What do you think would happen in this situation?

I was referencing the transmission lines and pipelines.

But you are incorrect about data centers not having eminent domain powers. Please read the most recent U.S. Supreme Court decision to educate yourself. Kelo vs new London iirc. This also applies to the home You own in Texas…

ETA that Texas has some of the Weakest eminent domain laws in the Nation for landowners And Homeowners.
Basically, all Texas eminent domain law greatly favors the oil/ gas/ pipeline industry which is where the majority of political contributions come from. Kabish?

Mas89 said:

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I was referencing the transmission lines and pipelines.

But you are incorrect about data centers not having eminent domain powers. Please read the most recent U.S. Supreme Court decision to educate yourself. Kelo vs new London iirc. This also applies to the home You own in Texas…

ETA that Texas has some of the Weakest eminent domain laws in the Nation for landowners And Homeowners.
Basically, all Texas eminent domain law greatly favors the oil/ gas/ pipeline industry which is where the majority of political contributions come from. Kabish?

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Not one company building a data center has eminent domain power. Zero. I've seen exactly zero cases where municipalities have used Kelo to acquire land for a data center. They are building on large parcels, not trying to buy many small pare cells in an urban area.

Jbob04 said:

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As of now they don't but let's go over a hypothetical situation. Let's say a data center is getting built and they need to tie into a major natural gas line that isn't on the property they purchased for the data center. Let's say there are some land owners on the route to tie into the gas line and they refuse to give them an easement or right of way to said pipeline. What do you think would happen in this situation?

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They would be in the same position as any other potential retail customer. The gas company can't build a pipeline solely to serve a data center by using the power of eminent domain because then it's not a common carrier line. Same with electricity. If it doesn't serve everyone along the line, then it's a private line and no eminent domain authority.

The real irony in the Permian is that we ought to be building lines to take power the other direction because there is so much gas in the Permian that is being flared off due to a lack of gas pipelines needed to get it to market. In fact, I bet that there will be data centers built out there that take advantage of this by building small gas generation plants so that they can generate their own electricity. But, if you do that, you probably want to tie your plant in to the grid to sell the excess, and the you have the water issue (need water for the turbines).

Once again, read Kelo vs. New London and tell me what part of that you do not understand.

Just because no company has tried it Yet in Texas doesn't mean that they can't or won't. I have been in numerous eminent domain cases over the years and think I understand the process and problems.

Which specific candidates has he put at risk?

Not so sure Abbott has put them at risk but I've supported and donated to opponents of some of the key players blocking meaningful eminent reform in Texas for many years. As have many others I know- we know who the players are. From the legislature,Texas RR commissioners to those seeking higher office we are watching.

Mas89 said:

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Once again, read Kelo vs. New London and tell me what part of that you do not understand.

Just because no company has tried it Yet in Texas doesn't mean that they can't or won't. I have been in numerous eminent domain cases over the years and think I understand the process and problems.

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I've done eminent domain cases. Tell me exactly what entity you think is going to be exercising eminent domain authority to acquire land for data centers.

The fact that people are linking Michael Quinn Sullivan's site as real news tells you how much of this scare mongering is a political move for donations.

Good discussion on this board about these issues. Here's another take from Politico's E&E News (Energy & Environment) on the Senate Hearing last week and the politics at play: https://www.eenews.net/articles/texas-regulators-urged-to-halt-33b-transmission-plan/

you likely missed it, but was directed towards you:

Which specific candidates has he put at risk?

Reload84 said:

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Good discussion on this board about these issues. Here's another take from Politico's E&E News (Energy & Environment) on the Senate Hearing last week and the politics at play: https://www.eenews.net/articles/texas-regulators-urged-to-halt-33b-transmission-plan/

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That's certainly a lot more informative that the link that appeared elsewhere in this thread. Some highlights:

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The first of the $33 billion of transmission projects was meant to funnel power to West Texas to help support oil and gas production. The Permian region across Texas and New Mexico accounted for about 44 percent of U.S. oil production and 19 percent of natural gas output last December, according to federal data.

The industry for years has been lobbying Texas to build more transmission lines to the Permian after hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, and other techniques sent production skyrocketing. Electricity is needed for those advanced operations, and data center plans would only add to the power demand in Texas.

"Part of this [problem] is because [transmission] wasn't built when it was needed," said Todd Staples, president of the Texas Oil and Gas Association. "No one believed that oil and gas was going to grow 430 percent in production in the Permian Basin since 2015 to 2025."

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So, the line in question is not a data center boondoggle, after all. They might benefit, but the whole reason the project got started was because of the O&G activity in the Permian. Here's the part that is worth a second look:

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Before HB 5066, ERCOT relied on independent and in-house modeling along with some data from transmission service providers to come up with transmission plans.

At Wednesday's hearing, ERCOT Chief Operating Officer Woody Rickerson said HB 5066 requires the grid manager to rely on transmission companies' data for the Permian Basin Reliability Plan and other transmission projects.

He said demand forecasts from those providers were "substantially higher" than ERCOT's in-house forecasts.

Transmission service providers earn a guaranteed rate of return on the transmission projects they build, and the bigger and more expensive a project is, the more profit they make.

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Still, the O&G people are adamant that the line is needed. So, what's all the uproar about? It's just garden variety NIMBY stuff.

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Part of their frustration stems from HB 5066, which also cut the timelines for the PUC to approve or deny transmission project from one year to 180 days. That gives landowners less time to argue for other routes that would bypass their land.

More than 200 people spoke out against the process to fight the transmission lines at Wednesday's hearing in Austin, Texas, including country music legend Tanya Tucker. She belted out the chorus of her 1978 hit "Texas (When I Die)."

"I'm very disappointed in how this has been handled," Tucker said. "This isn't the way we do things in Texas. You don't rush in and turn someone's life upside down."

The pushback against the lines has been so intense that multiple senators at Wednesday's hearing called for stopping the build-out until the state Legislature can weigh in on the issue.

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As someone whose family has been ranching in Archer County since 1890, I've had experience with various electric line and pipelines coming across our property. But, we are in the ranching business, not hobby farming, or owning a few acres for rural solitude. We had a couple of gas pipeline projects come through in the last few years, and I was disappointed that one of those projects was exclusively on my cousin's property, and most of the other one was, too, because those right of way checks were nice paydays for projects which had little long term impact on ranching, or even hunting (which we lease out).

I can understand why folks who do other things with their land are more sensitive about this stuff, but Texas has never been a state where NIMBYism had the upper hand. If it ever becomes one, we are in trouble.

Ag Commissioner Sid Miller goes on the record warning Republicans about the upcoming election. He says rural voters may opt out over 765kv lines and data centers. Could recent tightening polls be the canary in the coal mine? https://www.texastribune.org/2026/08/06/sid-miller-republicans-elections-data-centers-abbott/

I've yet to hear a decent description of how these things use up water. Seems like an easily addressable problem if it were a real thing.

Reload84 said:

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Ag Commissioner Sid Miller goes on the record warning Republicans about the upcoming election. He says rural voters may opt out over 765kv lines and data centers. Could recent tightening polls be the canary in the coal mine? https://www.texastribune.org/2026/08/06/sid-miller-republicans-elections-data-centers-abbott/

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Sid Miller is about the last guy I would take advice from on just about anything these days.

txags92 said:

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Reload84 said:

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Ag Commissioner Sid Miller goes on the record warning Republicans about the upcoming election. He says rural voters may opt out over 765kv lines and data centers. Could recent tightening polls be the canary in the coal mine? https://www.texastribune.org/2026/08/06/sid-miller-republicans-elections-data-centers-abbott/

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Sid Miller is about the last guy I would take advice from on just about anything these days.

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Three time incumbent who lost in the primary. So we've got Sid Miller, and some Michael Quinn Sullivan clickbait. Not exactly impressive.

Hagen95 said:

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annie88 said:

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doubledog said:

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Rural Democratic voters. Three words that should not be used in the same sentence.

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Right? I'm still baffled as to a few years ago. This big farm down from me that has a lot of cattle, a lot of land and they had a Beto sign on their property.

Still can't figure that one out.

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Historically speaking, Big City Republicans didn't care much for the farming man.

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The FDR democrats have all passed away, may they rest in peace.

Keller just moved a tad left from its typical solidly conservative voting pattern. Neighboring Westlake just approved a data center a couple hundred feet from homes in Keller.

Fitch said:

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I've yet to hear a decent description of how these things use up water. Seems like an easily addressable problem if it were a real thing.

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Cooling towers. Many (all? Maybe?) of them use open loop evaporative cooling. So they have a high demand for fresh water that isn't then sent down the drain to be treated and recycled. It isn't leaving the water cycle altogether, but you can't control where the water that evaporated is going to fall as rain. Thus, it is a net draw on a local watershed.

The problem with using a closed loop cooling system or something like that is that by using a phase change (liquid water to vapor) you are able to extract wayyyy more heat. Phase change is one of the key concepts in many cooling systems.

The Wall Street Journal has an interesting article on data center construction in the Permian.

Data-Center Backlash Leads to New Land Rush in Texas Oil Patch (paywall)

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Energy companies in the country's largest oil field have a plan to turn shrub-covered dirt into gold. It has nothing to do with oiland everything to do with the data-center boom.

Firms including Texas Pacific Land TPL 1.20%increase; green up pointing triangle, LandBridge LB 1.40%increase; green up pointing triangle and EagleRock EROK 2.83%increase; green up pointing triangle sit on land empires nestled in the Permian Basin, which spans West Texas and New Mexico. Their customers are oil-and-gas producers that pay for the right to build roads, drill wells and dump toxic water that is produced alongside the oil they bring to the surface.

Now, these landowners want a piece of the AI action. The companies' ambition is to lease land to data centers and sell them everything from water to construction materials. They are betting that developers facing community pushback from Maine to Arizona will be drawn to the Permian's abundant land, cheap energy and business friendly climate.

"A lot of places you see all over the country they're worried about water, they're worried about power, they're worried about transmission, and the Permian has all of those things in spades," said EagleRock Chief Executive Greg Pipkin Jr.

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I've been saying for a while that the excess gas being produced in the Permian should be used for gas fired plants to power data centers. I suspected that wastewater from oil production could be treated and used for data centers (while uneconomic for a normal consumer, for data centers, the cost of treating this water would be insignficant), and this article seems to confirm that.

Quote:

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Permian producers have suffered from a lack of pipelines to ship and sell natural gas, and they are eager to provide the fuel to electrify tech companies. They also have water galorea toxic, salty marinade that comes up alongside oil and which they plan to treat so it can be used to cool data centers and power plants. The water disposal issue has become a major headache for companies.

***

The three firms together sit on 1.4 million acres of landmore than seven times the size of New York Cityand are busy acquiring more.

The companies currently earn most of their cash through their business with oil-and-gas clients. For instance, Texas Pacific derived nearly half of its revenue last year, about $386 million, from activities such as selling sand, caliche and water to operators, and pocketing royalties from allowing producers to dispose of saltwater on its land. Royalties on oil-and-gas production made up the rest.

But the company has been gearing up to host data centers and power plants. It has invested $50 million in Bolt, a data and energy infrastructure company co-founded by former Google CEO Eric Schmidt, to pursue data center development in West Texas. Texas Pacific said it is inking deals, such as the $43 million agreement to sell land to Chevron. Texas Pacific also said it would sell brackish groundwater to Chevron to use at the plant.

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If I was a resident of the Permian Basin, I'd be pleased to see some kind of industry beyond oil and gas in the region simply for diversification reasons.

As someone who actually lives in rural Texas, I can tell you for a fact that dismissing the concerns of rural people, particularly about the power lines, is a huge mistake for republican leadership.

Rural Texans have kept Texas what it is for a long time while cities and suburbs - where most of the people doing all the posting live - have been moving progressively blue.

Piss on these folk's heads long enough, and they're gonna finally stop believing it is rain.

It isn't propaganda or NIMBYism, it's a feeling of zero representation.

Great post and you are spot on. There are a lot of pissed off rural land owners over these transmission lines and data centers. Ignore them long enough, and they will start voting differently.

96ags said:

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As someone who actually lives in rural Texas, I can tell you for a fact that dismissing the concerns of rural people, particularly about the power lines, is a huge mistake for republican leadership.

Rural Texans have kept Texas what it is for a long time while cities and suburbs - where most of the people doing all the posting live - have been moving progressively blue.

Piss on these folk's heads long enough, and they're gonna finally stop believing it is rain.

It isn't propaganda or NIMBYism, it's a feeling of zero representation.

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I think the rural landowners are being exceptionally short sighted in wanting the state to step in and fix what is a local problem. Building permits are controlled at the local level. Water well permitting is controlled by local groundwater conservation districts. Surface water is controlled by water rights that are mostly already 100% allocated watershed by watershed. The local governments have all the power they need to force anybody wanting to build a data center to listen to the local concerns and adapt their plans to minimize their impact. They can require noise barriers/buffers, lighting limitations, power generation/connection requirements, water usage, etc. without ever having to get the state involved. Inviting the state to control what happens locally is a mistake and one that rural residents will regret down the road if they manage to accomplish it.

The deals worked out with Terafab are an example of what local control over the permitting process can accomplish. Terafab won't connect to the grid, will use their own on-site water sources, and will do a host of other things to accomodate local demands. Rural residents need to work on their local governments and not try to make this a state level issue.

Greg Abbott was actively bringing data center companies to Texas. He said Texas is the AI epicenter of the USA. Only now has he changed his tune due to the pushback from rural land owners and voters.

Jbob04 said:

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Greg Abbott was actively bringing data center companies to Texas. He said Texas is the AI epicenter of the USA. Only now has he changed his tune due to the pushback from rural land owners and voters.

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His job is to promote the state and try to bring new businesses here. Local government's job is to make sure that the new businesses they allow to develop locally do so within the guidelines and limits set to make sure they don't harm the local communities. Asking for the state to step in when you have much more ability to control who represents you in your local government is a mistake.

Jbob04 said:

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Greg Abbott was actively bringing data center companies to Texas. He said Texas is the AI epicenter of the USA. Only now has he changed his tune due to the pushback from rural land owners and voters.

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Abbott can do basic bath, and assumed most voters can, too. The scaremongering about data centers is not an appeal to logic.

txags92 said:

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96ags said:

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As someone who actually lives in rural Texas, I can tell you for a fact that dismissing the concerns of rural people, particularly about the power lines, is a huge mistake for republican leadership.

Rural Texans have kept Texas what it is for a long time while cities and suburbs - where most of the people doing all the posting live - have been moving progressively blue.

Piss on these folk's heads long enough, and they're gonna finally stop believing it is rain.

It isn't propaganda or NIMBYism, it's a feeling of zero representation.

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I think the rural landowners are being exceptionally short sighted in wanting the state to step in and fix what is a local problem. Building permits are controlled at the local level. Water well permitting is controlled by local groundwater conservation districts. Surface water is controlled by water rights that are mostly already 100% allocated watershed by watershed. The local governments have all the power they need to force anybody wanting to build a data center to listen to the local concerns and adapt their plans to minimize their impact. They can require noise barriers/buffers, lighting limitations, power generation/connection requirements, water usage, etc. without ever having to get the state involved. Inviting the state to control what happens locally is a mistake and one that rural residents will regret down the road if they manage to accomplish it.

The deals worked out with Terafab are an example of what local control over the permitting process can accomplish. Terafab won't connect to the grid, will use their own on-site water sources, and will do a host of other things to accomodate local demands. Rural residents need to work on their local governments and not try to make this a state level issue.

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They are more wanting the government to STOP helping create the problem.

How much land do you own?

Quote:

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They are more wanting the government to STOP helping create the problem

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How many posts do we see here wanting to abolish property taxes, yet, when someone proposes development which will greatly increase the property tax base (and thereby, potentially lower property taxes), this is something we are supposed to oppose?

There are no guidelines or oversight. It's a free for all.

Jbob04 said:

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There are no guidelines or oversight. It's a free for all.

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Then work with your local government to set them. The county and local cities have the ability to approve or disapprove of building permits and they all have development codes that can be used to extract the concessions they want from Data Center developers. Grimes County was able to do that with Terafab to get the things they needed. Your local government is going to be WAYYY more responsive to local needs than anything you will get out of Austin. Asking Austin to step in and make a one size fits all solution to a situation that has a lot of local nuances is a mistake.

Honestly, I think most of this is NIMBYism egged on by online support from outside sources with dubious funding, but there are some real issues that should be sorted out and the local governments have all the power they need to do that right now with no intervention necessary from the state. Inviting another level of state level control over stuff that should stay local is how you turn Texas in California.

txags92 said:

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Jbob04 said:

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There are no guidelines or oversight. It's a free for all.

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Then work with your local government to set them. The county and local cities have the ability to approve or disapprove of building permits and they all have development codes that can be used to extract the concessions they want from Data Center developers. Grimes County was able to do that with Terafab to get the things they needed. Your local government is going to be WAYYY more responsive to local needs than anything you will get out of Austin. Asking Austin to step in and make a one size fits all solution to a situation that has a lot of local nuances is a mistake.

Honestly, I think most of this is NIMBYism egged on by online support from outside sources with dubious funding, but there are some real issues that should be sorted out and the local governments have all the power they need to do that right now with no intervention necessary from the state. Inviting another level of state level control over stuff that should stay local is how you turn Texas in California.

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To be fair, most rural Texas counties don't have much control over commercial buildings. Counties with a population of 250,000, or adjacent to such a county, can adopt a fire code (Grimes County would qualify). Beyond that, you're down to floodplain management and septic/sewer permits. But, that lack of regulation is what draws a lot of people to build in rural areas; for example, they can build ancillary structures that would not be permitted in most municipal zoning codes.

Now, where the counties do have leverage is on tax abatements. Most of these projects want tax abatements in order to lock in certainty on their ad valorem taxes. They usually agree to pay a substantial sum, but to lock than in for a period of years. If counties don't want data centers, they can decline to grant an abatement. Doesn't mean the data center won't get built anyway, but it does lessen the attractiveness of that location.

Rural Texans are not happy! Check out this article from Politico: https://www.politico.com/news/2026/08/19/how-data-centers-and-power-lines-could-turn-texas-governors-race-blue-01041065

txags92 said:

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This whole rural "grassroots" opposition to data centers smells just like the "grass roots rural opposition to fracking" that popped up a decade or so ago and was mostly bought and paid for astroturfing projects from the UAE and other OPEC nations riling up the uninformed with misinformation. This time it is China at risk of falling behind on AI compute throwing money into efforts to rile up the mostly uninformed about the "evils of data centers".

It doesn't mean there are not valid issues that people are concerned about, but taking advantage of those concerns to backstop lobbying for moratoriums and bans on data centers is playing right into China's hands. You may have local issues you are worried about, but you are working on their behalf when you start throwing blanket bans and moratoriums onto data center development instead of working with your local governments to get your concerns addressed in the development agreements.

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Just to close the loop on this issue in this thread…

X has now confirmed a Chinese bot farm of 200K fake accounts intentionally trying to manipulate public opinion against data centers.

People might want to consider how common this has become and how it is manipulating multiple policy discussions on social media. pic.twitter.com/yEVmEFQNb8

— AG (@AGHamilton29) August 28, 2026

The irony is that this astroturf post reads like it was written with AI.