Typically, Ph.D. programs in the fields of science and engineering require a duration of up to five years for completion. This timeframe encompasses student teaching (2 years), coursework (3-4 years), and research (4-5 years). Additionally, a minimum of six months is necessary to compose and write a dissertation.

Urban Ag said:

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YouBet said:

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Quote:

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Students from India, China and South Korea are expected to be hardest hit by the rule change.

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First time this statement has not said minorities and women hardest hit.

I welcome the rule change. You shouldn't be able to study forever and stay here. Get your schooling done and GTFO. Depending on who you are, you shouldn't be here in the first place, frankly.

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I welcome it as well but the total number of foreign students needs to be slashed much more and we shouldn't be allowing Chinese kids to come here at all. Period.

American kids should not have to compete against foreigners for limited spots in the best universities and colleges.

Texas and Texas A&M are state universities of Texas. Competition among fellow Texans is tough. Even harder with out of state kids added in. Foreigners? F that.

---

Well said.
We are constantly defending our country from enemies trying to steal what those that came before us built. It's mind boggling that our universities facilitate their attacks. All for a few dollars.

infinity ag said:

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It's always the American cheats and grifters who complain loudly that they can't make easy money anymore.

Like this professor who is pissed his low salary slaves won't be around much longer. Ha ha.

Everyday there's a new self-own with this admin....now a new attack on science in the US...this time capping student visas to 4 years. Most PhDs in Biology, for example, take 5-7 years. Cue the "we don't need international students taking our slots" crowd 😑 https://t.co/d9Rn8vyQny

— Jason Shepherd (@JasonSynaptic) July 17, 2026

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Cued: no, we don't need foreigners taking slots from Americans.

doubledog said:

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Typically, Ph.D. programs in the fields of science and engineering require a duration of up to five years for completion. This timeframe encompasses student teaching (2 years), coursework (3-4 years), and research (4-5 years). Additionally, a minimum of six months is necessary to compose and write a dissertation.

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If they are truly the best and brightest and are really needed, better than Americans, etc, etc shouldn't they be able to finish sooner?

I am glad the Trump administration is adding new restrictions to student visas because foreign students take away admission from deserving American students. Even worse, many of them are foreign students involved in protests that serve absolutely no purpose for our country. Receiving a student visa to study and get a degree is a privilege, not a right. That privilege can be revoked for any reason.

And not just student visa's. $100K bond being considered for green card applicants (process can take 5 years).

Quote:

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"The goal of bonds is, it seems, to keep out a certain type of immigrant," Dalal-Dheini told the Journal. "Only the wealthy can come visit, or reunite with family, or seek a better life for themselves."

The WSJ report emerged hours after the Trump administration revived the so-called "public charge" rule, which could deny green cards to immigrants who use public benefits such as food stamps, Medicaid, and housing vouchers.

Under the rule, green card applicants must show they won't be taxpayer burdens, or "public charges."

---

Journalist visas shortened from 5 years to 240 days, and less for Chicom 'journalists.'

The Trump administration has announced sweeping changes to visa rules for foreign journalists, reducing the maximum stay for most international reporters in the United States to 240 days and limiting Chinese journalists to just 90 days, prompting criticism from press freedom…

— Sean Spicer (@seanspicer) July 17, 2026

The often 10+ year saga of folks like Mahmoud Khalil who clearly had no intent to stop being a student, let alone ever go back home, should have woken more folks up to these types of vermin we need to prevent coming in the first place.

Excellent stuff. Will all get reversed with next Dem, but I'll take any W we can get.

Scotty Appleton said:

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doubledog said:

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Typically, Ph.D. programs in the fields of science and engineering require a duration of up to five years for completion. This timeframe encompasses student teaching (2 years), coursework (3-4 years), and research (4-5 years). Additionally, a minimum of six months is necessary to compose and write a dissertation.

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If they are truly the best and brightest and are really needed, better than Americans, etc, etc shouldn't they be able to finish sooner?

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No one really believes they are the "best and brightest". There was a case for that until year 2000... maybe 2010. After that we are importing the world's garbage and have turned the country into an economic zone so much that foreigners are angry that their kids are being blocked from US jobs... because... "muh talentz".

I saw one foreign person demanding "what about my American Dream?!". Now an American Dream is an entitlement for people around the world.

Thanks Dems.

Back in the 90s when I was at A&M, I got to know a Chinese student there. He was married and much older. He told me that he had a Bachelors (from China), 2 Masters degrees, 1 PhD completed and he was working on his 2nd PhD in Computer Science. He would have a total of 5 degrees. He was in his mid 40s with kids in high school. He was in College Station since the late 80s.

I was amazed, and on hindsight, he was probably a Commie spy.

If I go back to CStn, he may still be there... on his 8th PhD....

Scotty Appleton said:

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doubledog said:

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Typically, Ph.D. programs in the fields of science and engineering require a duration of up to five years for completion. This timeframe encompasses student teaching (2 years), coursework (3-4 years), and research (4-5 years). Additionally, a minimum of six months is necessary to compose and write a dissertation.

---

If they are truly the best and brightest and are really needed, better than Americans, etc, etc shouldn't they be able to finish sooner?

---

It is merely a question of time for a Ph.D candidate. During the first year, a student must engage in teaching, complete qualifying examinations, undertake coursework, and initiate a research program. In the second year, the focus remains on teaching, completing cumulative exams, continuing coursework, and advancing the research program. The third year involves oral examinations, coursework, and ongoing research. The fourth year is dedicated to seminars and the completion of the research program. Typically, the fifth year commences with the writing of the dissertation, which takes approximately six months on average, followed by the final oral examination. A significant amount of exams, teaching, coursework, and research must be accomplished by the conclusion of the fourth year, paving the way for the final year dedicated to writing and examinations. This results in exceedingly long days and weekends even for the best and brightest.

A common saying it that life begins after graduate school.

The lady explains it nicely.

F1 visa students are cooked. No more scamming the system enrolling in diploma mills to stay in the country.

Well done, Trump. These people can take their "skillz" and "talentz" and make China and India Great Again.




Also

People are leaving.

infinity ag said:

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People are leaving.

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Cross an Indian with a redditor and you are probably on the other side of the world of the truth.

But cool story, I guess.

I'll start and say that in theory I'm all in favor of this policy. 100% American universities should serve American students and be built around that mission. Most, if not all universities seem to have forgotten this and turned into profit focused institutes willing to sell their souls to the highest bidders.

However, this policy does have significant second order effects that are not being considered by most on this board. The stupidly large pool of international students gaming the visa system by staying in student status forever, and particularly in the context of grad school, is a net plus for American grad students because those international students have kept a huge variety of degree paths open.

For example I've been a professor of Arabic/Middle Eastern Studies at a Military Academy and now work with a major public university. And PhD programs in Middle Eastern languages and cultures are essentially shuttering their programs right now because in the past the 15-20 international grad students they had were enough to subsidize the existence of the department to also serve the 2-3 American born students in these programs. You lose those 15-20 international students and the whole program becomes unsustainable with no enrollment.

Some of you will likely snicker about Middle Eastern studies, but I trained officers to understand the culture and language so they can work with partners and be more effective and lethal war fighters. We need people like me to prepare officers to fight our enemies. Like it or not, in the past these international students have been critical to keeping niche specialties like mine alive. Life isn't all about STEM and a future world where only generic STEM degrees exist isn't a better world IMO.

What's the solution? Most likely language programs like Arabic or specialty science programs have to disappear at most universities without international students there to prop up enrollment. American students will ultimately have fewer options on where they can compete for grad school slots which is a net negative for us.


TLDR Version = The idea of making US universities all about US students is great, but in reality this policy will likely hurt US students as well.

The war against universities continues.

Think about all those post-docs making peanuts, basically indentured servants, with no hopes of ever getting a faculty position. You get rid of all that cheap labor, and that actually makes the US academic system better?

LOL. It's really going to be FAFO. There is a generation of researchers than have lost, and the repercussions will be huge.

Grad student enrollment is down 15% this year. That's HUGE. This is the fruits of anti-intellectualism and anti-education and it's interesting how many supporters this has at a website dedicated to Texas A&M.

shiftyandquick said:

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The war against universities continues.

Think about all those post-docs making peanuts, basically indentured servants, with no hopes of ever getting a faculty position. You get rid of all that cheap labor, and that actually makes the US academic system better?

LOL. It's really going to be FAFO. There is a generation of researchers than have lost, and the repercussions will be huge.

Grad student enrollment is down 15% this year. That's HUGE. This is the fruits of anti-intellectualism and anti-education and it's interesting how many supporters this has at a website dedicated to Texas A&M.

---

Those visas have not made the system better, lets try without them and see how it goes. We know having them is a failure

AggieEP said:

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I'll start and say that in theory I'm all in favor of this policy. 100% American universities should serve American students and be built around that mission. Most, if not all universities seem to have forgotten this and turned into profit focused institutes willing to sell their souls to the highest bidders.

However, this policy does have significant second order effects that are not being considered by most on this board. The stupidly large pool of international students gaming the visa system by staying in student status forever, and particularly in the context of grad school, is a net plus for American grad students because those international students have kept a huge variety of degree paths open.

For example I've been a professor of Arabic/Middle Eastern Studies at a Military Academy and now work with a major public university. And PhD programs in Middle Eastern languages and cultures are essentially shuttering their programs right now because in the past the 15-20 international grad students they had were enough to subsidize the existence of the department to also serve the 2-3 American born students in these programs. You lose those 15-20 international students and the whole program becomes unsustainable with no enrollment.

Some of you will likely snicker about Middle Eastern studies, but I trained officers to understand the culture and language so they can work with partners and be more effective and lethal war fighters. We need people like me to prepare officers to fight our enemies. Like it or not, in the past these international students have been critical to keeping niche specialties like mine alive. Life isn't all about STEM and a future world where only generic STEM degrees exist isn't a better world IMO.

What's the solution? Most likely language programs like Arabic or specialty science programs have to disappear at most universities without international students there to prop up enrollment. American students will ultimately have fewer options on where they can compete for grad school slots which is a net negative for us.


TLDR Version = The idea of making US universities all about US students is great, but in reality this policy will likely hurt US students as well.

---

What an eye roll, America will be screwed without ME. Plenty of smart Americans have lost out with the flood of foreigners. Without the foreigners, voids will be filled with smart Americans, it's the same in every industry. If there is money to be made, or knowledge needed someone will step up. You sound like the vast majority of people not from here, scared to death to have to live where they're from and guilt, scare, doom and gloom Americans to be able to stay. Universities can work with foreign universities to achieve the same goal and not screw its own citizens. For every one of you, if you are what you say you are, there are thousands and thousands of people pretending to be as important as you claim to be taking spots from Americans. How would it hurt American students? Without you, American's would suffer?

Some of this is like Colorado and Texas back in the 80's
The nicer ski towns of Colorado would not have been able to expand and become truly world class destinations without Texas money paying top dollar to vacation there
They hated the tourists but couldn't have survived without the influx of money

ABATTBQ11 said:

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BTKAG97 said:

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How did he "STUDY FOR FREE in the US" and why doesn't he go back to his home country and make it better? Why does he hate the motherland and his people?

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Could've had scholarships or fellowships to ivy leagues. They have a lot of support, even for international students.

ETA Looked him up. He got a master's in computer science at the University of Illinois. It wasn't "free" so much as he found a lot of university jobs he could do to substantially help his parents pay for it. There are articles on him if you look.

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The vast majority of the foreigners who need to leave aren't in Jugal's hemisphere, he's an anomaly not the average example.

I'm not sure if you understood my post.

If we lose these students, universities will kill off departments that they subsidize. Language programs are just one example, but lots of STEM programs that stay afloat with foreign enrollment will die as well.

The me part of the equation was in there as a broader implication of this move. The only people even capable of teaching Arabic in the future would be foreigners. Would you rather our officers learn Arabic from an American who is 100% committed to our ideals and who has a vested interest in building war fighting capability? Or from a rando who had to be imported because we killed off most language grad programs here? I'm not individually that important, but the idea is that of these programs die off, Americans will be pushed out of this market entirely. Not probably a huge deal in some people's opinion in language, but for sure a big deal in highly technical STEM fields like engineering and physics who also push through lots of foreign PhD students. The current system doesn't squeeze out American students, rather it facilitates the existence of programs for American students.

I know most on this board have turned vehemently against PhDs, but we still do need some people to do advanced research and to guide the next generation as they learn how to think. Not all of us are liberal indoctrinators, and some states (where I work being one of them) are taking action to try and eliminate the overt bias towards progressive research and teaching that had developed. It's been funny to watch the most extreme professors here squeal and squirm on that front, but at the same time entire departments are at risk of being eliminated with very little thought about the consequences.

AggieEP said:

---

I'll start and say that in theory I'm all in favor of this policy. 100% American universities should serve American students and be built around that mission. Most, if not all universities seem to have forgotten this and turned into profit focused institutes willing to sell their souls to the highest bidders.

However, this policy does have significant second order effects that are not being considered by most on this board. The stupidly large pool of international students gaming the visa system by staying in student status forever, and particularly in the context of grad school, is a net plus for American grad students because those international students have kept a huge variety of degree paths open.

For example I've been a professor of Arabic/Middle Eastern Studies at a Military Academy and now work with a major public university. And PhD programs in Middle Eastern languages and cultures are essentially shuttering their programs right now because in the past the 15-20 international grad students they had were enough to subsidize the existence of the department to also serve the 2-3 American born students in these programs. You lose those 15-20 international students and the whole program becomes unsustainable with no enrollment.

Some of you will likely snicker about Middle Eastern studies, but I trained officers to understand the culture and language so they can work with partners and be more effective and lethal war fighters. We need people like me to prepare officers to fight our enemies. Like it or not, in the past these international students have been critical to keeping niche specialties like mine alive. Life isn't all about STEM and a future world where only generic STEM degrees exist isn't a better world IMO.

What's the solution? Most likely language programs like Arabic or specialty science programs have to disappear at most universities without international students there to prop up enrollment. American students will ultimately have fewer options on where they can compete for grad school slots which is a net negative for us.


TLDR Version = The idea of making US universities all about US students is great, but in reality this policy will likely hurt US students as well.

---

It seems like you are saying that in order for ME studies departments to stay open, we need international students coming here. And for them to come here, we need to "open a path to citizenship"? If that is what you are getting at, I disagree vehemently.

ME students can come here, pay full tuition (no assistant-ship waivers paid by US tax payers) and GTFO once their studies are done. There should be no expectation of citizenship or a GC. Most Indian grad students are in the US not for the education but for the GC/US Citi chances. No.

ShaggySLC said:

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AggieEP said:

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I'll start and say that in theory I'm all in favor of this policy. 100% American universities should serve American students and be built around that mission. Most, if not all universities seem to have forgotten this and turned into profit focused institutes willing to sell their souls to the highest bidders.

However, this policy does have significant second order effects that are not being considered by most on this board. The stupidly large pool of international students gaming the visa system by staying in student status forever, and particularly in the context of grad school, is a net plus for American grad students because those international students have kept a huge variety of degree paths open.

For example I've been a professor of Arabic/Middle Eastern Studies at a Military Academy and now work with a major public university. And PhD programs in Middle Eastern languages and cultures are essentially shuttering their programs right now because in the past the 15-20 international grad students they had were enough to subsidize the existence of the department to also serve the 2-3 American born students in these programs. You lose those 15-20 international students and the whole program becomes unsustainable with no enrollment.

Some of you will likely snicker about Middle Eastern studies, but I trained officers to understand the culture and language so they can work with partners and be more effective and lethal war fighters. We need people like me to prepare officers to fight our enemies. Like it or not, in the past these international students have been critical to keeping niche specialties like mine alive. Life isn't all about STEM and a future world where only generic STEM degrees exist isn't a better world IMO.

What's the solution? Most likely language programs like Arabic or specialty science programs have to disappear at most universities without international students there to prop up enrollment. American students will ultimately have fewer options on where they can compete for grad school slots which is a net negative for us.


TLDR Version = The idea of making US universities all about US students is great, but in reality this policy will likely hurt US students as well.

---

What an eye roll, America will be screwed without ME. Plenty of smart Americans have lost out with the flood of foreigners. Without the foreigners, voids will be filled with smart Americans, it's the same in every industry. If there is money to be made, or knowledge needed someone will step up. You sound like the vast majority of people not from here, scared to death to have to live where they're from and guilt, scare, doom and gloom Americans to be able to stay. Universities can work with foreign universities to achieve the same goal and not screw its own citizens. For every one of you, if you are what you say you are, there are thousands and thousands of people pretending to be as important as you claim to be taking spots from Americans. How would it hurt American students? Without you, American's would suffer?

---

Either he is one of those trying to scare Americans with doom and gloom in order to stay, OR he is one of those Americans who makes money off this system. I would bet on the latter. Examples are immigration lawyers, politicians, home builders, lenders car dealers, they all make money with more immigration so they play these usual games to scare Americans that if foreigners leave, we are screwed. No, we aren't. Some things will get harder, but it will be better long term.

AggieEP said:

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I'm not sure if you understood my post.

If we lose these students, universities will kill off departments that they subsidize. Language programs are just one example, but lots of STEM programs that stay afloat with foreign enrollment will die as well.

The me part of the equation was in there as a broader implication of this move. The only people even capable of teaching Arabic in the future would be foreigners. Would you rather our officers learn Arabic from an American who is 100% committed to our ideals and who has a vested interest in building war fighting capability? Or from a rando who had to be imported because we killed off most language grad programs here? I'm not individually that important, but the idea is that of these programs die off, Americans will be pushed out of this market entirely. Not probably a huge deal in some people's opinion in language, but for sure a big deal in highly technical STEM fields like engineering and physics who also push through lots of foreign PhD students. The current system doesn't squeeze out American students, rather it facilitates the existence of programs for American students.

I know most on this board have turned vehemently against PhDs, but we still do need some people to do advanced research and to guide the next generation as they learn how to think. Not all of us are liberal indoctrinators, and some states (where I work being one of them) are taking action to try and eliminate the overt bias towards progressive research and teaching that had developed. It's been funny to watch the most extreme professors here squeal and squirm on that front, but at the same time entire departments are at risk of being eliminated with very little thought about the consequences.

---

I agree that ideally we have these departments.
So why are you saying we will lose these students? They can still come here, do their degrees and GTFO to wherever they came from.
That is still open.

There are not many people who want to learn Arabic, so having more international students is fine (as long as they go back when done). For majors in demand like engineering, we need to prioritize American students first and have a cap on foreign students. Yes, even when a foreign student may be "better" than an American student. We have to take care of our own first. Why should internationals corner a big chunk of spots from top schools like Stanford, MIT, UCBerkeley, CMU, UIUC? Give it to Americans and have a cap of 10% or something like that for internationals. Schools cannot operate on a 100% for-profit basis.

YouBet said:

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Quote:

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Students from India, China and South Korea are expected to be hardest hit by the rule change.

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First time this statement has not said minorities and women hardest hit.

I welcome the rule change. You shouldn't be able to study forever and stay here. Get your schooling done and GTFO. Depending on who you are, you shouldn't be here in the first place, frankly.

---

So true, Reminds me this gem. Scientis disover a massive meteor is going to hit the Earth and wipe all life, a complete and total extinction of ALL life on Earth. The next the next New York Times and Washington Post report " Giant Meteor to slam into and kill all life. women and minorities hit hardest !!!!"

No, I don't want any part of giving citizenship to people here on student visas.

I'm saying that while I agree in theory with pretty much any idea that makes American universities more about Americans, we do have to keep in mind that international students do subsidize many programs.

I think we have to be aware of that factor and at least consider how we keep offerings robust for real American students if we see a continued decline in international students enrollment. I think it's a pretty simple statement, but I must not have done a good enough job of making it clear.

The problem is with more specialized programs with traditionally low enrollment. Some of these PhD programs honestly aren't even really competitive, it's more like musical chairs and you're just trying to find a university with open spots and a faculty member willing to work with you as long as your grades don't totally suck. I'm not some genius, and I got a spot at one of the top schools in my field because my advisor loved my research proposal.

I think you are thinking about undergrads, and yes here schools like A&M should give the middle finger to international students and get as many Texans as possible through as engineers. Let the foreigners do their undergrad work somewhere else. But at the grad level it's a different dynamic completely and here I'm not as confident that driving away international students doesn't also have a negative impact on American students.

AggieEP said:

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No, I don't want any part of giving citizenship to people here on student visas.

I'm saying that while I agree in theory with pretty much any idea that makes American universities more about Americans, we do have to keep in mind that international students do subsidize many programs.

I think we have to be aware of that factor and at least consider how we keep offerings robust for real American students if we see a continued decline in international students enrollment. I think it's a pretty simple statement, but I must not have done a good enough job of making it clear.

---

OK, then I think we are mostly in agreement.

I am against hiring foreigners and giving them a "pathway to citizenship". We are not obliged to give them anything just because "they built a life in America". Too bad.

Now I am all for using our universities as a moneymaker but not at the cost of American students. Our kids cannot get into the top ones because there is a quota for international kids which is sizable. If these internationals want an education, they can go to univs that are not in high demand by Americans like Miami University of Ohio of Governor's University. Get the edu and go back. That is how it should work. The US is now a jobs program for rich and middle class foreigners.

AggieEP said:

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The problem is with more specialized programs with traditionally low enrollment. Some of these PhD programs honestly aren't even really competitive, it's more like musical chairs and you're just trying to find a university with open spots and a faculty member willing to work with you as long as your grades don't totally suck. I'm not some genius, and I got a spot at one of the top schools in my field because my advisor loved my research proposal.

I think you are thinking about undergrads, and yes here schools like A&M should give the middle finger to international students and get as many Texans as possible through as engineers. Let the foreigners do their undergrad work somewhere else. But at the grad level it's a different dynamic completely and here I'm not as confident that driving away international students doesn't also have a negative impact on American students.

---

Okay thanks for clarifying. I agree completely. It always has to be America first. Not money first. This money first logic has brought us so much grief because foreigners gave us money but took away our soul. And did it mostly legally so not much to blame them either.

One idea that I'm not sure what impact it would have would be to remove the provision that allows F1 visa holders to bring their spouses and children to the US as well. In most cases (debatable perhaps) that should encourage the international students to finish up quickly so they can return to their spouse and children.

I'm sure the media would portray us as cruel and inhumane, but we don't owe a thing to anyone from Somalia, Mongolia or Australia. If they really want the prestige of an American education they should be willing to sacrifice for it and we should be able to create the conditions that incentivize them to finish quickly and then leave. This would also partly solve the currently unsolvable problem of foreigners coming here on student visas and then having children that are now US citizens. As soon as they have a child here... we're now pretty much stuck with the parents also.

Golly what will the typical American college student do without people to teach him or her ARABIC? Because that's what this is all about.

AggieEP said:

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One idea that I'm not sure what impact it would have would be to remove the provision that allows F1 visa holders to bring their spouses and children to the US as well. In most cases (debatable perhaps) that should encourage the international students to finish up quickly so they can return to their spouse and children.

I'm sure the media would portray us as cruel and inhumane, but we don't owe a thing to anyone from Somalia, Mongolia or Australia. If they really want the prestige of an American education they should be willing to sacrifice for it and we should be able to create the conditions that incentivize them to finish quickly and then leave. This would also partly solve the currently unsolvable problem of foreigners coming here on student visas and then having children that are now US citizens. As soon as they have a child here... we're now pretty much stuck with the parents also.

---

I am okay if the family comes, but...

1. Only immediate family (spouse + kids) can come. None of them can work. If they are caught working illegally the entire family is deported.
2. If they have a child in the US, the baby is not an American citizen.
3. They complete their education and go back. No extensions and no jumping to other degrees unless they go back and re-apply.

American immigration is now a joke. No one takes it seriously. You can see that from the number of people who lose their H1B and switch to visitor visa (WTF??) and then stick around, interview, and then convert to an H1B again.

The reality is very few want the prestige of a US education. Most just use it as a way to move and work here.

shiftyandquick said:

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The war against universities continues.

Think about all those post-docs making peanuts, basically indentured servants, with no hopes of ever getting a faculty position. You get rid of all that cheap labor, and that actually makes the US academic system better?

LOL. It's really going to be FAFO. There is a generation of researchers than have lost, and the repercussions will be huge.

Grad student enrollment is down 15% this year. That's HUGE. This is the fruits of anti-intellectualism and anti-education and it's interesting how many supporters this has at a website dedicated to Texas A&M.

---

LMAO

BadMoonRisin said:

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infinity ag said:

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People are leaving.

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Cross an Indian with a redditor and you are probably on the other side of the world of the truth.

But cool story, I guess.

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5 million on a student or H1B visa... That is interesting.

shiftyandquick said:

---

The war against universities continues.

Think about all those post-docs making peanuts, basically indentured servants, with no hopes of ever getting a faculty position. You get rid of all that cheap labor, and that actually makes the US academic system better?

LOL. It's really going to be FAFO. There is a generation of researchers than have lost, and the repercussions will be huge.

Grad student enrollment is down 15% this year. That's HUGE. This is the fruits of anti-intellectualism and anti-education and it's interesting how many supporters this has at a website dedicated to Texas A&M.

---

Post docs make around 50K (not very cheap labor). Most do find faculty or industrial positions. Grad school is very difficult and the professional rewards (in the sciences) are not nearly as good as medical or legal professions. It has nothing to due with "anti-intellectualism or anti-education" it is simply a matter of economics.

TexasAg95 said:

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Golly what will the typical American college student do without people to teach him or her ARABIC? Because that's what this is all about.

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What is this response? Are you implying that American college students should not have the option to learn foreign languages? I don't really see what this response adds to the conversation.

And no, the actual conversation here is about how to solve visa abuses by international students without adversely impacting American students. I just used Arabic as an example because that's my field.