Correct. I am comfortable assuming my own risk with my own money. I am not comfortable with the government assuming that risk with taxpayer money.

flown-the-coop said:

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How does this support environmental & social responsibility, diversity / equity / inclusion and what the flip does this due to stop climate change and systemic racism?!?!?!

The above is not sarcasm, it's how the Biden admin judged every program and action.

So before someone pipes in that this is 'Bad Trump'… at least he is doing something with companies and industries that will benefit America and Americans.l and not appease the Davos globalists and their agendas.

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This is still bad Trump. The government is incompetent and shouldn't be investing in companies. If these were good investments, private investors would do it.

This just sets the stage for even more crony capitalism and our inflation dollars going to pad the pockets of friends of The Administration (regardless of who is in the White House).

waitwhat? said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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How does this support environmental & social responsibility, diversity / equity / inclusion and what the flip does this due to stop climate change and systemic racism?!?!?!

The above is not sarcasm, it's how the Biden admin judged every program and action.

So before someone pipes in that this is 'Bad Trump'… at least he is doing something with companies and industries that will benefit America and Americans.l and not appease the Davos globalists and their agendas.

---

This is still bad Trump. The government is incompetent and shouldn't be investing in companies. If these were good investments, private investors would do it.

This just sets the stage for even more crony capitalism and our inflation dollars going to pad the pockets of friends of The Administration (regardless of who is in the White House).

---

In WWII the government "invested" in most companies because there was a national interest. This is similar.

Crony capitalism and friends of the administration charges don't hold water. These are stock purchases not handouts.

Let's allow the market to decide where computer chips go.

Chip crisis of 2021 knocks on the door.
- Come to find out the military needed those chips and the cutting edge manufacturer could get gobbled up by China.

Same with precious metals and rare earth metals.

Want the same to happen with Quantum chips and AI?.

flown-the-coop said:

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Yesterday said:

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Meh. Seems ripe for fraud and abuse. What will the government do to other companies or individuals to make sure that stock is a winner?

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How is this ripe for fraud and abuse?

America makes public investment, holds public investment, divests public investment and it's all done in full and utter transparency.

You could argue whether or not we should be doing this and if it's a good investment, but on involuntary seizure sayinf "muh fraud and abuse" makes little cents.

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The government has no money except for the money they take from their citizens

BboroAg said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Yesterday said:

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Meh. Seems ripe for fraud and abuse. What will the government do to other companies or individuals to make sure that stock is a winner?

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How is this ripe for fraud and abuse?

America makes public investment, holds public investment, divests public investment and it's all done in full and utter transparency.

You could argue whether or not we should be doing this and if it's a good investment, but on involuntary seizure sayinf "muh fraud and abuse" makes little cents.

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The government has no money except for the money they take from their citizens

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Those are called taxes and they have been a part of government since civilization began.

BboroAg said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Yesterday said:

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Meh. Seems ripe for fraud and abuse. What will the government do to other companies or individuals to make sure that stock is a winner?

---

How is this ripe for fraud and abuse?

America makes public investment, holds public investment, divests public investment and it's all done in full and utter transparency.

You could argue whether or not we should be doing this and if it's a good investment, but on involuntary seizure sayinf "muh fraud and abuse" makes little cents.

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The government has no money except for the money they take from their citizens

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Our government prints its own money.

BboroAg said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Yesterday said:

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Meh. Seems ripe for fraud and abuse. What will the government do to other companies or individuals to make sure that stock is a winner?

---

How is this ripe for fraud and abuse?

America makes public investment, holds public investment, divests public investment and it's all done in full and utter transparency.

You could argue whether or not we should be doing this and if it's a good investment, but on involuntary seizure sayinf "muh fraud and abuse" makes little cents.

---

The government has no money except for the money they take from their citizens

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Sure they do. They own the printing press that creates money. When they lose money on a bad investment all they have to do is create more money and no one gets hurt. Nothing can go wrong here. I promise.

dds08 said:

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Let's allow the market to decide where computer chips go.

Chip crisis of 2021 knocks on the door.
- Come to find out the military needed those chips and the cutting edge manufacturer could get gobbled up by China.

Same with precious metals and rare earth metals.

Want the same to happen with Quantum chips and AI?.

---

Well, Trump just signed off letting Nvidia send more of their chips to China so that doesn't help matters.

dds08 said:

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Let's allow the market to decide where computer chips go.

Chip crisis of 2021 knocks on the door.
- Come to find out the military needed those chips and the cutting edge manufacturer could get gobbled up by China.

Same with precious metals and rare earth metals.

Want the same to happen with Quantum chips and AI?.

---

Deregulate, massively, and cut taxes (corporate and personal). That will bring back mfg moreso than any of the liberal tactics like tariffs.

To help the economy even more... gut spending.

We need to quit letting the govt overstep.

BigRobSA said:

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dds08 said:

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Let's allow the market to decide where computer chips go.

Chip crisis of 2021 knocks on the door.
- Come to find out the military needed those chips and the cutting edge manufacturer could get gobbled up by China.

Same with precious metals and rare earth metals.

Want the same to happen with Quantum chips and AI?.

---

Deregulate, massively, and cut taxes (corporate and personal). That will bring back mfg moreso than any of the liberal tactics like tariffs.

To help the economy even more... gut spending.

We need to quit letting the govt overstep.

---

Cutting 129 regulations for every new one added seems like a good start.

Burdizzo said:

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BboroAg said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Yesterday said:

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Meh. Seems ripe for fraud and abuse. What will the government do to other companies or individuals to make sure that stock is a winner?

---

How is this ripe for fraud and abuse?

America makes public investment, holds public investment, divests public investment and it's all done in full and utter transparency.

You could argue whether or not we should be doing this and if it's a good investment, but on involuntary seizure sayinf "muh fraud and abuse" makes little cents.

---

The government has no money except for the money they take from their citizens

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Sure they do. They own the printing press that creates money. When they lose money on a bad investment all they have to do is create more money and no one gets hurt. Nothing can go wrong here. I promise.

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Yep…you got it

BboroAg said:

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Burdizzo said:

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BboroAg said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Yesterday said:

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Meh. Seems ripe for fraud and abuse. What will the government do to other companies or individuals to make sure that stock is a winner?

---

How is this ripe for fraud and abuse?

America makes public investment, holds public investment, divests public investment and it's all done in full and utter transparency.

You could argue whether or not we should be doing this and if it's a good investment, but on involuntary seizure sayinf "muh fraud and abuse" makes little cents.

---

The government has no money except for the money they take from their citizens

---

Sure they do. They own the printing press that creates money. When they lose money on a bad investment all they have to do is create more money and no one gets hurt. Nothing can go wrong here. I promise.

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Yep…you got it

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I hope people understand physical dollars need not be printed to be created. That's old school.

Roughly 10% of the monetary supply is physical. The way it really happens tends to make one's mind melt for a variety of reasons.

flown-the-coop said:

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BboroAg said:

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Burdizzo said:

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BboroAg said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Yesterday said:

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Meh. Seems ripe for fraud and abuse. What will the government do to other companies or individuals to make sure that stock is a winner?

---

How is this ripe for fraud and abuse?

America makes public investment, holds public investment, divests public investment and it's all done in full and utter transparency.

You could argue whether or not we should be doing this and if it's a good investment, but on involuntary seizure sayinf "muh fraud and abuse" makes little cents.

---

The government has no money except for the money they take from their citizens

---

Sure they do. They own the printing press that creates money. When they lose money on a bad investment all they have to do is create more money and no one gets hurt. Nothing can go wrong here. I promise.

---

Yep…you got it

---

I hope people understand physical dollars need not be printed to be created. That's old school.

Roughly 10% of the monetary supply is physical. The way it really happens tends to make one's mind melt for a variety of reasons.

---

I hope people understand that this model of democratic governments setting major industrial policy and directly investing in businesses has been tried before. It led to a record high stock market, high employment, record real estate values and the country being the envy of the world that everyone wanted to imitate. It ultimately worked about as well as socialism. The country, Japan in the late 1970s and 1980s.

Ironically, one its greatest failures was trying to have Japan take over the lead in semiconductors and early AI.
"Another MITI bad bet was its Fifth Generation Computer Systems initiative. Launched in 1982 to promote advances in supercomputing and artificial intelligence, MITI shut down the program just 10 years later after burning $400 million on software that it would end up giving away freely because no one wanted it."

"Attempts to formally model past industrial policy interventions uniformly uncover little, if any, positive impact on productivity, growth, or welfare. The evidence indicates that most resource flows went to large, politically influential 'backward' sectors, suggesting that political economy considerations may be central to the apparent ineffectiveness of Japanese industrial policy."

https://www.discoursemagazine.com/p/japan-inc-and-other-tales-of-industrial-policy-apocalypse

I find it very difficult to understand how that article applies to this topic.

The issues were bad bets on technology (another Betamax with their approach to HDTV, but this reversed with Blu-ray years later), corruption in how investments were made, and a stifling on entrepreneurism.

Here it's more about investing in 9 thoroughbreds vs putting all the money on Uncle Fred's pony.

flown-the-coop said:

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I find it very difficult to understand how that article applies to this topic.

The issues were bad bets on technology (another Betamax with their approach to HDTV, but this reversed with Blu-ray years later), corruption in how investments were made, and a stifling on entrepreneurism.

Here it's more about investing in 9 thoroughbreds vs putting all the money on Uncle Fred's pony.

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And Japan thought they were investing in thoroughbreds in critical industries as well. The example is clear, they thought government investing in key businesses would create great economic success. Once again, governments are good at running businesses efficiently or choosing winners. Your logic is it will be successful this time because Trump is doing it. Just like socialists dismiss past failures as this time will be different because we know what we are doing. The issues you sited with Japan problems in the 1980s will almost certainly happen this time as well.

Per the referenced article above,
"Perhaps most notable in this regard was the Japanese government's own admission that the MITI model had not worked as well as planned. A 2000 reportby the Policy Research Institute within Japan's Ministry of Finance concluded that "the Japanese model was not the source of Japanese competitiveness but the cause of our failure."

Trump investing in these 9 companies is not recreating the MITI model. Not even a little.

Burdizzo said:

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Correct. I am comfortable assuming my own risk with my own money. I am not comfortable with the government assuming that risk with taxpayer money.

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Actually, government "invests" in government at very low interest rates that aren't likely to be able to keep up with the rising value of the money.

flown-the-coop said:

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Trump investing in these 9 companies is not recreating the MITI model. Not even a little.

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How about the original the companies he had the government invest in and the one in the next few years he will. Yes their stocks are up for now but we have number examples of stocks exploding high on expectations only to fail spectacularly. I know, this time is different Trump has never made a bad investment or backed a failed business.

Here is a partial list of his great successes: New Jersey Generals, Trump Steaks, Trump Vodka, Trump Magazine, Trump Ice, Trump Mortgage LLC, The Trump Network, GoTrump.com, Trump Airlines (Trump Shuttle), Trump: The Game, Tour de Trump, Trump University, Trump Taj Mahal, Trump Castle Hotel & Casino, Trump Plaza Hotel & Casino (Atlantic City): The Plaza Hotel (New York), Trump Entertainment Resorts, etc…..

PS. The Dems are even worse but that is a very low bar to pass.

So what you have is "Orange Man Bad"? Thanks for clearing it up.

Guess he's a multibillionaire by sheer dumb luck. God he's dumb, but real lucky I guess.

I had noticed leprechauns often have an orange glow to them and they also certainly like gold.

I seriously cannot believe you brought Trump Steals because your MITI correlation was… terrible.

flown-the-coop said:

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BboroAg said:

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Burdizzo said:

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BboroAg said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Yesterday said:

---

Meh. Seems ripe for fraud and abuse. What will the government do to other companies or individuals to make sure that stock is a winner?

---

How is this ripe for fraud and abuse?

America makes public investment, holds public investment, divests public investment and it's all done in full and utter transparency.

You could argue whether or not we should be doing this and if it's a good investment, but on involuntary seizure sayinf "muh fraud and abuse" makes little cents.

---

The government has no money except for the money they take from their citizens

---

Sure they do. They own the printing press that creates money. When they lose money on a bad investment all they have to do is create more money and no one gets hurt. Nothing can go wrong here. I promise.

---

Yep…you got it

---

I hope people understand physical dollars need not be printed to be created. That's old school.

Roughly 10% of the monetary supply is physical. The way it really happens tends to make one's mind melt for a variety of reasons.

---

I hope people understand that printing press is a euphemism

I think you would be surprised, and in a disappointing way.

I think people poorly understand how "money" is added to the system. I am not you I understand it past the bare basics.

If you posted another 5000 times per day maybe you could teach me something.

Burdizzo said:

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If you posted another 5000 times per day maybe you could teach me something.

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Based on your comment I seriously doubt it.

Putting the government thumb on the market, at some point its not a free market.

Kozmozag said:

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Putting the government thumb on the market, at some point its not a free market.

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Can you explain how this is the government putting a thumb on the market?

At best, they are dipping a toe in the market.

flown-the-coop said:

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Kozmozag said:

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Putting the government thumb on the market, at some point its not a free market.

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Can you explain how this is the government putting a thumb on the market?

At best, they are dipping a toe in the market.

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Unless they're investing in any/all companies doing the same thing...they're choosing winners/losers.

This is just a bad idea, on its face. Regardless of the party in power.

BigRobSA said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Kozmozag said:

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Putting the government thumb on the market, at some point its not a free market.

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Can you explain how this is the government putting a thumb on the market?

At best, they are dipping a toe in the market.

---

Unless they're investing in any/all companies doing the same thing...they're choosing winners/losers.

This is just a bad idea, on its face. Regardless of the party in power.

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They're not really choosing winners. The market will decide that. This is still far better than government grants.

techno-ag said:

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BigRobSA said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Kozmozag said:

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Putting the government thumb on the market, at some point its not a free market.

---

Can you explain how this is the government putting a thumb on the market?

At best, they are dipping a toe in the market.

---

Unless they're investing in any/all companies doing the same thing...they're choosing winners/losers.

This is just a bad idea, on its face. Regardless of the party in power.

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They're not really choosing winners. The market will decide that. This is still far better than government grants.

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BigRob does not like any government spending. I respect that, but it clouds any fair assessment on good vs bad use of government funds.