It's a couple of things. There is a big shallow gravel aquifer that sucks up a metric ****-ton of water before it gets to those lakes. The second part is people don't realize how long of a route that is until you plot it on a map. We can also throw in that this region has been in a decades long drought. Lots of gravel plus a long route plus a drought means it takes forever for the water to get to Lake CC/Mathis.

American Hardwood said:

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oldord said:

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The entire Houston Bay Area. At least 10'feet in some areas. Interesting stories how when they were drawing down the initial oil and gas plays in the areas, there were actually catastrophic land falls that wrecked rigs and people felt the ground sink

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I missed this reply. What happened in Houston bears no resemblance to the groundwater plan for Evangeline. The density of wells is nothing close to what happened there.

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Doesn't matter. You don't need groundwater for your thing

HTownAg98 said:

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It's a couple of things. There is a big shallow gravel aquifer that sucks up a metric ****-ton of water before it gets to those lakes. The second part is people don't realize how long of a route that is until you plot it on a map. We can also throw in that this region has been in a decades long drought. Lots of gravel plus a long route plus a drought means it takes forever for the water to get to Lake CC/Mathis.

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So alot of it will get sucked into the ground? Especially the Frio

American Hardwood said:

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oldord said:

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The entire Houston Bay Area. At least 10'feet in some areas. Interesting stories how when they were drawing down the initial oil and gas plays in the areas, there were actually catastrophic land falls that wrecked rigs and people felt the ground sink

---

I missed this reply. What happened in Houston bears no resemblance to the groundwater plan for Evangeline. The density of wells is nothing close to what happened there.

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What are you talking about? You mentioned the Gulf Coast aquifer two post above. Where do you think Houston is?

HTownAg98 said:

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It's a couple of things. There is a big shallow gravel aquifer that sucks up a metric ****-ton of water before it gets to those lakes. The second part is people don't realize how long of a route that is until you plot it on a map. We can also throw in that this region has been in a decades long drought. Lots of gravel plus a long route plus a drought means it takes forever for the water to get to Lake CC/Mathis.

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Follow up

Looks like the water has finally made it to Choke. It's up about 12 feet in the last 4 days, and is 23%, up from about 9%

4 said:

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American Hardwood said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Ag87H2O said:

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American Hardwood said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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American Hardwood said:

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Not Sinton, the politicking and fear mongering.

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Well, I guess I don't know which particular brand of fear mongering you are referring to.

But let's just start with Sinton, who you said was hypocritical

Sinton is a city of 5000 people, that uses 1 Million GPD

By your own estimate, Corpus wants 25 Million GPD pumped right out of the ground

That's a LOT of groundwater

Is Sinton really being hypocritical or overly political by being concerned about well draw down and aquifer depletion, even while they are seeking permits? Sounds like their water pursuits are a tiny fraction of those y'all are pursuing for Corpus residential, commercial, and industry combined.

Sounds like Sinton has some legitimate concerns, that amount to more than just being a fly in the ointment

Also, is Corpus not being political? Why don't y'all have a desal plant by now?

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Yes, they are being political and are absolutely using the fear of depletion to further their agenda. Does the Evangeline group have the right of capture or do they not? The State of Texas says they do. The amount of water extraction has already been permitted many years ago by the authority established by San Patricio County. The City of Sinton never complained or protested the Evangeline project during any of the 10 years they have attempted to sell water including to the City of Sinton themselves. It only became an issue at the 11th hour when political hay could be made, and the City could leverage its protestations.

As far as long-term drawdowns, go study the hydrology. I can't repeat it all here. Remember, the protest isn't over the AMOUNT of water, it's about the drilling of the wells. Study the well locations and look at the density, compare that to areas that have experienced depletion problems and get back to me. The aquifer can sustain the proposed wellfield for a very, very long time at the maximum pump rates of the well field. However, this doesn't preclude others tapping into it at some point, but that is the responsibility of the water districts to manage.

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You are correct. The Evangeline is one layer of the larger Gulf Coast Aquifer that runs the entire Texas coast and 50-100 miles inland. It is a veritable ocean of water under our feet. Claims that these wells will deplete the aquifer are politicized and inaccurate at best. Does they need to be monitored, yes. Are these proposed wells going to destroy the aquifer - hardly. They are continually being recharged at rates generally equal to or greater than withdrawal rates other than northern Fort Bend and west/northwest Harris and Montgomery counties.

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The Gulf Coast Aquifer does not recharge like the Edwards does because it is not held in a rigid limestone karst formation like the Edwards is. When the Edwards level goes down, the stone that holds it stays the same and it can be recharged much quicker.

When the Evangeline, Chicote, etc. go down, the ground above them sinks and the aquifer itself shrinks because there isn't the structure to hold it up. Subsidence is a real issue along the coast and even up into some of the non coastal counties. We are talking land that has sunk multiples of feet since we started really putting a strain on the subsurface water.

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Where are you talking about?

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It's basically the same thing that would happen to Guam if you put too many Marines on it

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How long did it take them to flip it back over?

American Hardwood said:

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oldord said:

---

The entire Houston Bay Area. At least 10'feet in some areas. Interesting stories how when they were drawing down the initial oil and gas plays in the areas, there were actually catastrophic land falls that wrecked rigs and people felt the ground sink

---

I missed this reply. What happened in Houston bears no resemblance to the groundwater plan for Evangeline. The density of wells is nothing close to what happened there.

---

Exactly. Comparing what happened in East Harris/Northern Galveston counties and the ship channel area back in the 1950s through the mid to late 1980s is apples to grapefruit. That subsidence was due to over pumping the aquifer because the Houston water supply during that time was 90% groundwater, and all the refineries along the ship channel in particular during that era were all pumping massive wells 24/7.

While groundwater pumpage needs to be monitored, the Corpus Christi situation is nowhere near what caused the issues in Houston. There is still plenty of capacity in the Evangeline to meet the current needs, especially if desalination plants are on the way.

It's supposed to be a really rainy fall and winter with the El Niño. It will be interesting to see where these areas are in terms of water when baseball season starts in mid February. But desalination plants still need to be built. This is when you do it - not when you're bone dry.

Ag87H2O said:

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American Hardwood said:

---

oldord said:

---

The entire Houston Bay Area. At least 10'feet in some areas. Interesting stories how when they were drawing down the initial oil and gas plays in the areas, there were actually catastrophic land falls that wrecked rigs and people felt the ground sink

---

I missed this reply. What happened in Houston bears no resemblance to the groundwater plan for Evangeline. The density of wells is nothing close to what happened there.

---

Exactly. Comparing what happened in East Harris/Northern Galveston counties and the ship channel area back in the 1950s through the mid to late 1980s is apples to grapefruit. That subsidence was due to over pumping the aquifer because the Houston water supply during that time was 90% groundwater, and all the refineries along the ship channel in particular during that era were all pumping massive wells 24/7.

While groundwater pumpage needs to be monitored, the Corpus Christi situation is nowhere near what caused the issues in Houston. There is still plenty of capacity in the Evangeline to meet the current needs, especially if desalination plants are on the way.

---

Ag87H2O said:

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American Hardwood said:

---

oldord said:

---

The entire Houston Bay Area. At least 10'feet in some areas. Interesting stories how when they were drawing down the initial oil and gas plays in the areas, there were actually catastrophic land falls that wrecked rigs and people felt the ground sink

---

I missed this reply. What happened in Houston bears no resemblance to the groundwater plan for Evangeline. The density of wells is nothing close to what happened there.

---

Exactly. Comparing what happened in East Harris/Northern Galveston counties and the ship channel area back in the 1950s through the mid to late 1980s is apples to grapefruit. That subsidence was due to over pumping the aquifer because the Houston water supply during that time was 90% groundwater, and all the refineries along the ship channel in particular during that era were all pumping massive wells 24/7.

While groundwater pumpage needs to be monitored, the Corpus Christi situation is nowhere near what caused the issues in Houston. There is still plenty of capacity in the Evangeline to meet the current needs, especially if desalination plants are on the way.

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You don't need ground water. The lakes are about to have plenty of water and it will last long enough to get the desalinization plants up and running

Captain Pablo said:

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American Hardwood said:

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oldord said:

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The entire Houston Bay Area. At least 10'feet in some areas. Interesting stories how when they were drawing down the initial oil and gas plays in the areas, there were actually catastrophic land falls that wrecked rigs and people felt the ground sink

---

I missed this reply. What happened in Houston bears no resemblance to the groundwater plan for Evangeline. The density of wells is nothing close to what happened there.

---

Doesn't matter. You don't need groundwater for your thing

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Before the rains hit, groundwater was the only deliverable water source available to the city before the city ran out of water, literally. Desal would have never met the timetable needed. Build the desal, I don't care, but I would rather see the city have multiple sources available and not be dependent on any one source. Do them all, groundwater, desal, and surface water.

The rains have taken a little pressure off, but the city should proceed with all projects as everyone int he region knows, the droughts will return.

Captain Pablo said:

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Ag87H2O said:

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American Hardwood said:

---

oldord said:

---

The entire Houston Bay Area. At least 10'feet in some areas. Interesting stories how when they were drawing down the initial oil and gas plays in the areas, there were actually catastrophic land falls that wrecked rigs and people felt the ground sink

---

I missed this reply. What happened in Houston bears no resemblance to the groundwater plan for Evangeline. The density of wells is nothing close to what happened there.

---

Exactly. Comparing what happened in East Harris/Northern Galveston counties and the ship channel area back in the 1950s through the mid to late 1980s is apples to grapefruit. That subsidence was due to over pumping the aquifer because the Houston water supply during that time was 90% groundwater, and all the refineries along the ship channel in particular during that era were all pumping massive wells 24/7.

While groundwater pumpage needs to be monitored, the Corpus Christi situation is nowhere near what caused the issues in Houston. There is still plenty of capacity in the Evangeline to meet the current needs, especially if desalination plants are on the way.

---

Ag87H2O said:

---

American Hardwood said:

---

oldord said:

---

The entire Houston Bay Area. At least 10'feet in some areas. Interesting stories how when they were drawing down the initial oil and gas plays in the areas, there were actually catastrophic land falls that wrecked rigs and people felt the ground sink

---

I missed this reply. What happened in Houston bears no resemblance to the groundwater plan for Evangeline. The density of wells is nothing close to what happened there.

---

Exactly. Comparing what happened in East Harris/Northern Galveston counties and the ship channel area back in the 1950s through the mid to late 1980s is apples to grapefruit. That subsidence was due to over pumping the aquifer because the Houston water supply during that time was 90% groundwater, and all the refineries along the ship channel in particular during that era were all pumping massive wells 24/7.

While groundwater pumpage needs to be monitored, the Corpus Christi situation is nowhere near what caused the issues in Houston. There is still plenty of capacity in the Evangeline to meet the current needs, especially if desalination plants are on the way.

---

You don't need ground water. The lakes are about to have plenty of water and it will last long enough to get the desalinization plants up and running

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Are you new here? I was a kid 30 years ago when this process started.

TAMU1990 said:

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It's supposed to be a really rainy fall and winter with the El Niño. It will be interesting to see where these areas are in terms of water when baseball season starts in mid February. But desalination plants still need to be built. This is when you do it - not when you're bone dry.

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Come on, it's Corpus. Mañana. We can take care of it mañana.

TacosaurusRex said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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You don't need ground water. The lakes are about to have plenty of water and it will last long enough to get the desalinization plants up and running

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Are you new here? I was a kid 30 years ago when this process started.

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I hope he works in the permits department.

Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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TAMU1990 said:

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It's supposed to be a really rainy fall and winter with the El Niño. It will be interesting to see where these areas are in terms of water when baseball season starts in mid February. But desalination plants still need to be built. This is when you do it - not when you're bone dry.

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Come on, it's Corpus. Mañana. We can take care of it mañana.

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Corpus is ground zero for the Mañana Zone, where Mañana does not mean tomorrow. It means "not today."

Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

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TAMU1990 said:

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It's supposed to be a really rainy fall and winter with the El Niño. It will be interesting to see where these areas are in terms of water when baseball season starts in mid February. But desalination plants still need to be built. This is when you do it - not when you're bone dry.

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Come on, it's Corpus. Mañana. We can take care of it mañana.

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I have no doubt Corpus will waste the reprieve they just got for the next few years.

American Hardwood said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Ag87H2O said:

---

American Hardwood said:

---

Captain Pablo said:

---

American Hardwood said:

---

Not Sinton, the politicking and fear mongering.

---

Well, I guess I don't know which particular brand of fear mongering you are referring to.

But let's just start with Sinton, who you said was hypocritical

Sinton is a city of 5000 people, that uses 1 Million GPD

By your own estimate, Corpus wants 25 Million GPD pumped right out of the ground

That's a LOT of groundwater

Is Sinton really being hypocritical or overly political by being concerned about well draw down and aquifer depletion, even while they are seeking permits? Sounds like their water pursuits are a tiny fraction of those y'all are pursuing for Corpus residential, commercial, and industry combined.

Sounds like Sinton has some legitimate concerns, that amount to more than just being a fly in the ointment

Also, is Corpus not being political? Why don't y'all have a desal plant by now?

---

Yes, they are being political and are absolutely using the fear of depletion to further their agenda. Does the Evangeline group have the right of capture or do they not? The State of Texas says they do. The amount of water extraction has already been permitted many years ago by the authority established by San Patricio County. The City of Sinton never complained or protested the Evangeline project during any of the 10 years they have attempted to sell water including to the City of Sinton themselves. It only became an issue at the 11th hour when political hay could be made, and the City could leverage its protestations.

As far as long-term drawdowns, go study the hydrology. I can't repeat it all here. Remember, the protest isn't over the AMOUNT of water, it's about the drilling of the wells. Study the well locations and look at the density, compare that to areas that have experienced depletion problems and get back to me. The aquifer can sustain the proposed wellfield for a very, very long time at the maximum pump rates of the well field. However, this doesn't preclude others tapping into it at some point, but that is the responsibility of the water districts to manage.

---

You are correct. The Evangeline is one layer of the larger Gulf Coast Aquifer that runs the entire Texas coast and 50-100 miles inland. It is a veritable ocean of water under our feet. Claims that these wells will deplete the aquifer are politicized and inaccurate at best. Does they need to be monitored, yes. Are these proposed wells going to destroy the aquifer - hardly. They are continually being recharged at rates generally equal to or greater than withdrawal rates other than northern Fort Bend and west/northwest Harris and Montgomery counties.

---

The Gulf Coast Aquifer does not recharge like the Edwards does because it is not held in a rigid limestone karst formation like the Edwards is. When the Edwards level goes down, the stone that holds it stays the same and it can be recharged much quicker.

When the Evangeline, Chicote, etc. go down, the ground above them sinks and the aquifer itself shrinks because there isn't the structure to hold it up. Subsidence is a real issue along the coast and even up into some of the non coastal counties. We are talking land that has sunk multiples of feet since we started really putting a strain on the subsurface water.

---

Where are you talking about?

---

Subsidence. It's a thing when you pull water out of subsurface aquifers that have no rigid structure to support the ground above (like the Evangeline and Chicot aquifers, for example)

Not limited to just the gulf coast or the Houston area either. For example, Luke AFB west of Phoenix has sunk over 18 feet over the years as water has been pulled out of the Salt River Valley aquifer.

Parts of the Houston area have sank 10+ feet over the years and even with the push to change from wells to surface water for water needs, it still sinks about 1" a year give or take. The Gulf Coast Aquifer doesn't recharge like the Edwards does - not even close. .0004" to 2" per year is the general rate. Which isn't squat, especially compared to what is removed from it. Which means that it is just about always in a state of decline. Which means the land is going to continually sink, albiet gradually, as long a more and more is pulled out of it.

Corpus uses about 85 million gallons of water a day or 260 acre feet. Residential & Industrial

Current Lake Volumes

Lake Corpus Christi. Approx 82,000 acre feet (33-34% full)

Lake Choke Canyon. Approx 162,000 acre feet (24-25 % full)

Lake Texana Approx 162,000 acre feet. (Full)

Corpus is good for quite a while and these lakes will continue to fill with the current river situation. Lake Corpus Christi will still get a lot more water. Choke Canyon can still hold 75 % more water, that's a big lake if it ever fills up.