Max Stonetrail said:

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maverick2076 said:

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Max Stonetrail said:

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Teslag said:

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There are large variations in PTSD ratings. Can range from 0, 10, 30, 50, 70, or 100. Most I see are in the 10 to 30 range. 50 isn't common, 70 rare, and 100 is almost a unicorn.

For example, 10% is

Quote:

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Occupational and social impairment with occasional decrease in work efficiency and intermittent periods of inability to perform occupational tasks (although generally functioning satisfactorily, with routine behavior, self-care, and conversation normal), due to such symptoms as: depressed mood, anxiety, suspiciousness, panic attacks (weekly or less often), chronic sleep impairment, mild memory loss (such as forgetting names, directions, recent events).

---

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I will probably get roasted for this, but 10% sounds like Life and i bet 90% of the population could make a case for most or all of those, military service or not.

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You can certainly have the opinion that 90% of the civilian population has PTSD enough to rate a 10% rating. But that 90% didn't get it in service of the US tax payer while carrying out US policy, under a contract with the US Government that promises support for their injuries incurred in service as codified by US law. And that's a really big difference.

---

What I am saying, in my opinion, is the symptoms above which aren't too terribly different from a bad hangover shouldn't qualify anybody at anytime under any circumstances for any kind of payment.

When you say "incurred in service" is that "while in" or "because of", which I think is a lot of the debate on this thread?

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I should have used the term "service-connected", which is what the VA uses for rating criteria. That would have been more precise.

Most PTSD folks aren't getting 100%. My PTSD is considered severe, and my disability rating is 50%, nowhere close to hundred

BBRex said:

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insulator_king said:

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BBRex said:

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True, but at the same time, my coworker had VA cover an expensive fertility treatment that was in no way connected to her military disability while my brother-in-law and his wife can't get their fertility treatment paid for by insurance and are having to pony up $10 grand or more. When people see that, they want in on the racket.

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You could have been in on the so called 'racket', all you had to do was choose to join the military. That's the great thing about the US, we all have choices. Now all those choices end up with [sometimes] different outcomes, but hey, that's life.

Now, I know nothing about what fertility treatment the VA covers, so can't say if what she said or you heard is the full story.

And I'm sorry to hear about your B-I-L's family.

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I'm technically not a veteran because I only enlisted in the Reserves, but I did choose to join. I wound up in the Navy right at the end of the Cold War and just as fighting in the desert was becoming all the rage. They weren't calling up sonar technicians.

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You are still a veteran.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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Teslag said:

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Quote:

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I would say the VAST majority have not earned them.

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What quantifiable research and data have you compiled to determine this?

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The more you post, the more we hate VA benefits. You're literally turning people against helping veterans by telling us how much you're ripping us off.

If you really cared about veterans you'd stop posting.

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And the more you post, the more I hate the whining, moaning and complaining about unsubstantiated rumors that are being flung about. You're literally turning people against clueless and brainless civilians who think the vast majority of veterans are ripping off the government.

If you have actual reasonable suspicion of fraud, wast abuse, REPORT IT at https://www.oversight.gov/inspectors-general/department-veterans-affairs-oig, and quit aimlessly posting rumors and garbage bogus allegations on this message board.

maverick2076 said:

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insulator_king said:

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BBRex said:

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True, but at the same time, my coworker had VA cover an expensive fertility treatment that was in no way connected to her military disability while my brother-in-law and his wife can't get their fertility treatment paid for by insurance and are having to pony up $10 grand or more. When people see that, they want in on the racket.

---

You could have been in on the so called 'racket', all you had to do was choose to join the military. That's the great thing about the US, we all have choices. Now all those choices end up with [sometimes] different outcomes, but hey, that's life.

Now, I know nothing about what fertility treatment the VA covers, so can't say if what she said or you heard is the full story.

And I'm sorry to hear about your B-I-L's family.

---

If a veteran has a 100% VA rating, they are eligible to receive all their health care through the VA, whether it is service connected or not. It is a benefit only offered to those with 100% ratings. So that is a legitimate explanation as to how those treatments could be covered by the VA.

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Oh yeah, for sure. I was talking about how people on the outside see all this think that type of care looks appealing or wonder why they're getting expensive treatments that aren't service related for free. She's a bit of an over-sharer, so I probably know more than I should about the need for those procedures.

Anyway, she legit has issues that will be with her for the rest of her life, and I know she wouldn't wish that on anyone, either.

Quote:

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What I am saying, in my opinion, is the symptoms above which aren't too terribly different from a bad hangover shouldn't qualify anybody at anytime under any circumstances for any kind of payment.

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Are you seriously comparing PTSD to a hangover or am I missing something in your statement.

maverick2076 said:

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BBRex said:

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insulator_king said:

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BBRex said:

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True, but at the same time, my coworker had VA cover an expensive fertility treatment that was in no way connected to her military disability while my brother-in-law and his wife can't get their fertility treatment paid for by insurance and are having to pony up $10 grand or more. When people see that, they want in on the racket.

---

You could have been in on the so called 'racket', all you had to do was choose to join the military. That's the great thing about the US, we all have choices. Now all those choices end up with [sometimes] different outcomes, but hey, that's life.

Now, I know nothing about what fertility treatment the VA covers, so can't say if what she said or you heard is the full story.

And I'm sorry to hear about your B-I-L's family.

---

I'm technically not a veteran because I only enlisted in the Reserves, but I did choose to join. I wound up in the Navy right at the end of the Cold War and just as fighting in the desert was becoming all the rage. They weren't calling up sonar technicians.

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You are still a veteran.

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Sort of. There are some things I get access to (the big one being VA home loans), but a lot of stuff I don't. If I had been called up, that would be different. But serving six years of regular reserve or guard time doesn't qualify you for veteran status in the legal sense.

U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs: Who Is a Veteran?

I pissed off my dad for not standing up to be recognized as a veteran when I graduated from A&M. He was a 20+ year Army veteran, a helicopter pilot in Vietnam, and quietly proud of his service and mine. I had to explain to him that there are legal distinctions, and I didn't want to misrepresent myself, even in something as innocuous as that.

maverick2076 said:

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Max Stonetrail said:

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maverick2076 said:

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Max Stonetrail said:

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Teslag said:

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There are large variations in PTSD ratings. Can range from 0, 10, 30, 50, 70, or 100. Most I see are in the 10 to 30 range. 50 isn't common, 70 rare, and 100 is almost a unicorn.

For example, 10% is

Quote:

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Occupational and social impairment with occasional decrease in work efficiency and intermittent periods of inability to perform occupational tasks (although generally functioning satisfactorily, with routine behavior, self-care, and conversation normal), due to such symptoms as: depressed mood, anxiety, suspiciousness, panic attacks (weekly or less often), chronic sleep impairment, mild memory loss (such as forgetting names, directions, recent events).

---

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I will probably get roasted for this, but 10% sounds like Life and i bet 90% of the population could make a case for most or all of those, military service or not.

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You can certainly have the opinion that 90% of the civilian population has PTSD enough to rate a 10% rating. But that 90% didn't get it in service of the US tax payer while carrying out US policy, under a contract with the US Government that promises support for their injuries incurred in service as codified by US law. And that's a really big difference.

---

What I am saying, in my opinion, is the symptoms above which aren't too terribly different from a bad hangover shouldn't qualify anybody at anytime under any circumstances for any kind of payment.

When you say "incurred in service" is that "while in" or "because of", which I think is a lot of the debate on this thread?

---

I should have used the term "service-connected", which is what the VA uses for rating criteria. That would have been more precise.

---

"Service-connected" sounds appropriate.

Based on the description of 10% and knowing how systems work, I just think someone could be asked "Do you ever feel a little down or depressed and don't feel like going into work?" and answer "Yes" like every other human being who has ever had a job and congratulations, here is your 10% for life from the taxpayer.

Having said that, I do realize thousands of veterans have service-connected injuries that prevent them from being a full participant in life and they deserve whatever forms of compensation and comfort to attempt to make up for that.

And also there are a lot of people that game the myriad of entitlement systems, not just the VA Disability.

El Chupacabra said:

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Teslag said:

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Quote:

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I would say the VAST majority have not earned them.

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What quantifiable research and data have you compiled to determine this?

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Message board posts that justify defrauding the taxpayer as long as "I gets mine".

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So you have NOTHING, just baseless conjecture.

You think it is fraud, well you can think that all you want, but in reality it is baseless conjecture at this point. If you have any type of evidence, report it to the OIG.

Then, write your congress critters and ask them to tighten up the eligibility requirements for VA disability. Good luck.

I am aware of the convoluted nuances the VA puts around the term veteran when it comes to the Reserve Component.

My personal feeling on the matter: you completed your full term of service honorably? You're a veteran. It's not your fault the Navy never called you to active duty.

El Chupacabra said:

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Vepp said:

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As someone who exited from the military 5 years ago, the amount of people who looked at me wide eyes when I told them I wasn't going to play the disability system was 100%. They couldn't believe that I wouldn't play their fraud game.

Not to mention that I know many other veterans in real life who shouldn't be milking their fellow taxpayers when very little is actually wrong with them.

This is not an attack on those that ACTUALLY became disabled in the military, but the massive fraud must stop. It won't be a popular political decision, but we need reform because the current system is RIFE with people who don't deserve an extra monthly check.

This is one of the hills I'll die on due to overwhelming personal experience. I immediately lose respect for any fellow veteran who starts talking about how they gamed the system to get a check.

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Good for you, need more like you.

I'm trying to think if I've ever met a veteran that hasn't mentioned their disability check.

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Well, mostly because they probably don't consider it any of your business.
But since I've posted, I will state for the record that I don't get a VA disability check, and have never applied for any type of VA disability [or ANY other type of disability for that matter].
So now you know, I am one.

Max Stonetrail said:

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maverick2076 said:

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Max Stonetrail said:

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maverick2076 said:

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Max Stonetrail said:

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Teslag said:

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There are large variations in PTSD ratings. Can range from 0, 10, 30, 50, 70, or 100. Most I see are in the 10 to 30 range. 50 isn't common, 70 rare, and 100 is almost a unicorn.

For example, 10% is

Quote:

---

Occupational and social impairment with occasional decrease in work efficiency and intermittent periods of inability to perform occupational tasks (although generally functioning satisfactorily, with routine behavior, self-care, and conversation normal), due to such symptoms as: depressed mood, anxiety, suspiciousness, panic attacks (weekly or less often), chronic sleep impairment, mild memory loss (such as forgetting names, directions, recent events).

---

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I will probably get roasted for this, but 10% sounds like Life and i bet 90% of the population could make a case for most or all of those, military service or not.

---

You can certainly have the opinion that 90% of the civilian population has PTSD enough to rate a 10% rating. But that 90% didn't get it in service of the US tax payer while carrying out US policy, under a contract with the US Government that promises support for their injuries incurred in service as codified by US law. And that's a really big difference.

---

What I am saying, in my opinion, is the symptoms above which aren't too terribly different from a bad hangover shouldn't qualify anybody at anytime under any circumstances for any kind of payment.

When you say "incurred in service" is that "while in" or "because of", which I think is a lot of the debate on this thread?

---

I should have used the term "service-connected", which is what the VA uses for rating criteria. That would have been more precise.

---

"Service-connected" sounds appropriate.

Based on the description of 10% and knowing how systems work, I just think someone could be asked "Do you ever feel a little down or depressed and don't feel like going into work?" and answer "Yes" like every other human being who has ever had a job and congratulations, here is your 10% for life from the taxpayer.

Having said that, I do realize thousands of veterans have service-connected injuries that prevent them from being a full participant in life and they deserve whatever forms of compensation and comfort to attempt to make up for that.

And also there are a lot of people that game the myriad of entitlement systems, not just the VA Disability.

---

Here is the exact questionnaire the VA examiner uses when evaluating PTSD. There is one of these for every rated condition the VA evaluates, so you can look at it and see for yourself if what you think is accurate.

https://www.benefits.va.gov/compensation/docs/PTSD_Review.pdf

The VA and the rating system are literally an open book. It's convoluted, it's not always easy to understand, and it can be maddeningly complex and frustrating to navigate, but every bit of it is open records. A lot of posters (not specifically you) could clear up some of their often ridiculous speculation by spending 5 minutes with Google and an hour reading. But that requires work, and being outraged by a secondhand story is much easier and emotionally satisfying for some, I guess.

Quote:

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I'm trying to think if I've ever met a veteran that hasn't mentioned their disability check.

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I find that hard to believe when only 30% of Veterans are considered disabled

92AG10 said:

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Capt. Augustus McCrae said:

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El Chupacabra said:

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Vepp said:

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As someone who exited from the military 5 years ago, the amount of people who looked at me wide eyes when I told them I wasn't going to play the disability system was 100%. They couldn't believe that I wouldn't play their fraud game.

Not to mention that I know many other veterans in real life who shouldn't be milking their fellow taxpayers when very little is actually wrong with them.

This is not an attack on those that ACTUALLY became disabled in the military, but the massive fraud must stop. It won't be a popular political decision, but we need reform because the current system is RIFE with people who don't deserve an extra monthly check.

This is one of the hills I'll die on due to overwhelming personal experience. I immediately lose respect for any fellow veteran who starts talking about how they gamed the system to get a check.

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Good for you, need more like you.

I'm trying to think if I've ever met a veteran that hasn't mentioned their disability check.

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Unless I see missing limbs or an eye patch, I'm pretty convinced fraud occurred if their rating is over about 10%.

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This may be the dumbest take on this thread to date.

Can't wait for you to explain the apparent superhuman ability you must possess that enables you to observe and diagnosis all the damage absorbed by the human body. A Marine medical marvel!

What a crock.....

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Agreed. I know a few guys who have PTSD, and it is a real deal, and is not physically visible.

texink said:

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We spend $200 billion a year on VA disability payments. I wouldn't be surprised if half or more is fraud at this point. This is where DOGE should have spent most of their time.

BTW, no one should be surprised by any of this, targeting DOD and VA bloat was a key part of Project 2025.

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Another factually vacuous and baseless statement. It is a WAG completely made up in your mind.
Do you have a link to any GAO reports that back this up?

maverick2076 said:

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I am aware of the convoluted nuances the VA puts around the term veteran when it comes to the Reserve Component.

My personal feeling on the matter: you completed your full term of service honorably? You're a veteran. It's not your fault the Navy never called you to active duty.

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Thanks. I can honestly say I've never heard anyone who served active duty say anything different. It's pretty much did you sign up, serve the time and leave in good standing? If so, that's what counts.

Aggie Infantry said:

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That recruiting office was open to everyone.

28 years
4 deployments
11A

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Absolutely!

And I can assure you, that the last thing in my mind when I signed that NROTC contract my junior year in the Corps of Cadets was all the VA benefits I was going to get later in life. And I and other veterans EARNED them.
To me, being a Patriot for this Nation meant not just talking about it, but actually doing something to support the US Constitution, which in my case was joining the US Navy.

Ag_SGT said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Ag_SGT said:

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Quote:

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Unless I see missing limbs or an eye patch, I'm pretty convinced fraud occurred if their rating is over about 10%.

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Most of the 22 Veterans a day committing suicide everyday suffer from invisible scars. PTSD is real

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I know a few people who it is very much real. So much so that they can't hold a job, no matter how hard they try. For them, it makes sense for them to get benefits.

To those who have the same diagnosis yet still work 40+ hours a week and use their check as a second one to what they paid from their job, while living their vida loca, not so much,

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And I know numerous folks who worked over 40 hours a week, because we are "fixed", with meds who have gone on to commit suicide. I in fact know more folks who have committed suicide than I do those that were killed during a deployment. Just because we can work a 40 hour does not mean we are fixed, we are just good at pretending we are.

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Yes, because males especially [and to a lesser degree females] are able to compartmentalize the trauma and appear functional, that is until they can't!

insulator_king said:

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Aggie Infantry said:

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That recruiting office was open to everyone.

28 years
4 deployments
11A

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Absolutely!

And I can assure you, that the last thing in my mind when I signed that NROTC contract my junior year in the Corps of Cadets was all the VA benefits I was going to get later in life. And I and other veterans EARNED them.
To me, being a Patriot for this Nation meant not just talking about it, but actually doing something to support the US Constitution, which in my case was joining the US Navy.

---

And I'll say this, on the other side of the anecdotal evidence pile:

I served for over 25 years. The vast majority of my friends and acquaintances are service members, veterans, or spouses. Many of them hold a VA rating of one level or another. And if you asked them, just about every single one of them, and all of their spouses and children, would give up every single dime of VA compensation that they ever have been or will be paid in order to be physically, mentally and spiritually whole again.

I know I would.

I think about it every time I wake my wife up screaming from a nightmare, or when my elbows and wrist hurt so bad from clenching them together at night that I can't hardly type at work. I think about it after I've snapped at my kid for no reason, or have to leave a restaurant because it's too crowded or just feels off. I think about it when it takes me an extra 5 minutes to pull on my socks and boots, or when my doctor starts talking to me about hip replacements before I'm 50. I think about it when I'm sitting on the toilet for the 7th time today, hoping not to see any blood this time. And I think about it when I play the odds in my head of being able to walk my daughter down the aisle someday, or whether or not I'll get to meet my grandkids and say, "you know, when I was your age…"

So, yeah, VA compensation is nice. And it's definitely appreciated. But money's no substitute for mental and physical health. I didn't know that when I was 20. I know it now.

And I'm not saying any of this to garner sympathy or to stymy real discussion on the VA. But I think it's important enough for people to look at both sides that I just shared more personal **** about myself than I think I've ever put out in public. I told y'all stuff my mom doesn't even know.

And the crazy part is that I don't regret a minute of my service. I'd do every bit of it again, even the parts that made me put a gun barrel in my mouth and think about pulling the trigger a few years back. My service changed my life. It gave me an education, experience and perspective that can't be matched. It provided upward mobility for my family. It's going to pay for my little girl's school. And I got to be a small part of the greatest military for the greatest nation in the world. I don't need any thanks for it. The job and the friends I made are thanks enough.

But it sure would be nice to wake up one morning and not hurt in one way or another. Just one morning…

Quote:

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I served for over 25 years. The vast majority of my friends and acquaintances are service members, veterans, or spouses. Many of them hold a VA rating of one level or another. And if you asked them, just about every single one of them, and all of their spouses and children, would give up every single dime of VA compensation that they ever have been or will be paid in order to be physically, mentally and spiritually whole again.

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maverick2076 said:

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Max Stonetrail said:

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maverick2076 said:

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Max Stonetrail said:

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maverick2076 said:

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Max Stonetrail said:

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Teslag said:

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There are large variations in PTSD ratings. Can range from 0, 10, 30, 50, 70, or 100. Most I see are in the 10 to 30 range. 50 isn't common, 70 rare, and 100 is almost a unicorn.

For example, 10% is

Quote:

---

Occupational and social impairment with occasional decrease in work efficiency and intermittent periods of inability to perform occupational tasks (although generally functioning satisfactorily, with routine behavior, self-care, and conversation normal), due to such symptoms as: depressed mood, anxiety, suspiciousness, panic attacks (weekly or less often), chronic sleep impairment, mild memory loss (such as forgetting names, directions, recent events).

---

---

I will probably get roasted for this, but 10% sounds like Life and i bet 90% of the population could make a case for most or all of those, military service or not.

---

You can certainly have the opinion that 90% of the civilian population has PTSD enough to rate a 10% rating. But that 90% didn't get it in service of the US tax payer while carrying out US policy, under a contract with the US Government that promises support for their injuries incurred in service as codified by US law. And that's a really big difference.

---

What I am saying, in my opinion, is the symptoms above which aren't too terribly different from a bad hangover shouldn't qualify anybody at anytime under any circumstances for any kind of payment.

When you say "incurred in service" is that "while in" or "because of", which I think is a lot of the debate on this thread?

---

I should have used the term "service-connected", which is what the VA uses for rating criteria. That would have been more precise.

---

"Service-connected" sounds appropriate.

Based on the description of 10% and knowing how systems work, I just think someone could be asked "Do you ever feel a little down or depressed and don't feel like going into work?" and answer "Yes" like every other human being who has ever had a job and congratulations, here is your 10% for life from the taxpayer.

Having said that, I do realize thousands of veterans have service-connected injuries that prevent them from being a full participant in life and they deserve whatever forms of compensation and comfort to attempt to make up for that.

And also there are a lot of people that game the myriad of entitlement systems, not just the VA Disability.

---

Here is the exact questionnaire the VA examiner uses when evaluating PTSD. There is one of these for every rated condition the VA evaluates, so you can look at it and see for yourself if what you think is accurate.

https://www.benefits.va.gov/compensation/docs/PTSD_Review.pdf

The VA and the rating system are literally an open book. It's convoluted, it's not always easy to understand, and it can be maddeningly complex and frustrating to navigate, but every bit of it is open records. A lot of posters (not specifically you) could clear up some of their often ridiculous speculation by spending 5 minutes with Google and an hour reading. But that requires work, and being outraged by a secondhand story is much easier and emotionally satisfying for some, I guess.

---

I read the form in your link and I see where all the symptoms that were listed by another poster as 10% and 70% came from. The form gathers the data and there isn't a specified straight line between the symptoms to arrive at 10% or 70% or nn%,.but I wouldn't expect there to be as much of this type of psychological evaluation is a judgement call.. There isn't an objective way to measure this kind of criteria. Without knowing the actual data on this you cannot make a judgement if these 10% diagnoses are being handed out like candy or with real discernment.

I can only speak for myself, but I think the "outrage" is the perception there are "a lot" of people getting disability because of a physical injury yet are able to perform jobs requiring manual labor, play recreational sports and do other strenuous physical activity and don't actually seem to be held back by any physical limitations. Things like PTSD are a different animal.

maverick2076 said:

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SNIP
My service changed my life. It gave me an education, experience and perspective that can't be matched. It provided upward mobility for my family. It's going to pay for my little girl's school. And I got to be a small part of the greatest military for the greatest nation in the world. I don't need any thanks for it. The job and the friends I made are thanks enough.

---

Ain't that the truth. [What I bolded.]
Thanks for sharing.

Max Stonetrail said:

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maverick2076 said:

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Max Stonetrail said:

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maverick2076 said:

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Max Stonetrail said:

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maverick2076 said:

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Max Stonetrail said:

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Teslag said:

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There are large variations in PTSD ratings. Can range from 0, 10, 30, 50, 70, or 100. Most I see are in the 10 to 30 range. 50 isn't common, 70 rare, and 100 is almost a unicorn.

For example, 10% is

Quote:

---

Occupational and social impairment with occasional decrease in work efficiency and intermittent periods of inability to perform occupational tasks (although generally functioning satisfactorily, with routine behavior, self-care, and conversation normal), due to such symptoms as: depressed mood, anxiety, suspiciousness, panic attacks (weekly or less often), chronic sleep impairment, mild memory loss (such as forgetting names, directions, recent events).

---

---

I will probably get roasted for this, but 10% sounds like Life and i bet 90% of the population could make a case for most or all of those, military service or not.

---

You can certainly have the opinion that 90% of the civilian population has PTSD enough to rate a 10% rating. But that 90% didn't get it in service of the US tax payer while carrying out US policy, under a contract with the US Government that promises support for their injuries incurred in service as codified by US law. And that's a really big difference.

---

What I am saying, in my opinion, is the symptoms above which aren't too terribly different from a bad hangover shouldn't qualify anybody at anytime under any circumstances for any kind of payment.

When you say "incurred in service" is that "while in" or "because of", which I think is a lot of the debate on this thread?

---

I should have used the term "service-connected", which is what the VA uses for rating criteria. That would have been more precise.

---

"Service-connected" sounds appropriate.

Based on the description of 10% and knowing how systems work, I just think someone could be asked "Do you ever feel a little down or depressed and don't feel like going into work?" and answer "Yes" like every other human being who has ever had a job and congratulations, here is your 10% for life from the taxpayer.

Having said that, I do realize thousands of veterans have service-connected injuries that prevent them from being a full participant in life and they deserve whatever forms of compensation and comfort to attempt to make up for that.

And also there are a lot of people that game the myriad of entitlement systems, not just the VA Disability.

---

Here is the exact questionnaire the VA examiner uses when evaluating PTSD. There is one of these for every rated condition the VA evaluates, so you can look at it and see for yourself if what you think is accurate.

https://www.benefits.va.gov/compensation/docs/PTSD_Review.pdf

The VA and the rating system are literally an open book. It's convoluted, it's not always easy to understand, and it can be maddeningly complex and frustrating to navigate, but every bit of it is open records. A lot of posters (not specifically you) could clear up some of their often ridiculous speculation by spending 5 minutes with Google and an hour reading. But that requires work, and being outraged by a secondhand story is much easier and emotionally satisfying for some, I guess.

---

I read the form in your link and I see where all the symptoms that were listed by another poster as 10% and 70% came from. The form gathers the data and there isn't a specified straight line between the symptoms to arrive at 10% or 70% or nn%,.but I wouldn't expect there to be as much of this type of psychological evaluation is a judgement call.. There isn't an objective way to measure this kind of criteria. Without knowing the actual data on this you cannot make a judgement if these 10% diagnoses are being handed out like candy or with real discernment.

I can only speak for myself, but I think the "outrage" is the perception there are "a lot" of people getting disability because of a physical injury yet are able to perform jobs requiring manual labor, play recreational sports and do other strenuous physical activity and don't actually seem to be held back by any physical limitations. Things like PTSD are a different animal.

---

The form doesn't specify the rating because the examiner who fills out that form doesn't rate you. The examiner is a medical professional whose sole job is to evaluate your physical and mental condition against the criteria on the DBQ. Their findings are given to a rater, who reviews the DBQ, your medical records, and your service records against the rating criteria established in the CFR. They assign a rating if you have a valid diagnosis of a rated condition that is service connected.

America has been at War with Veterans since Washington & LINCOLN for what thwy earned and deserve, America wants freedom and prosperity on the CHEAP!!

Max Stonetrail said:

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maverick2076 said:

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Max Stonetrail said:

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maverick2076 said:

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Max Stonetrail said:

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maverick2076 said:

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Max Stonetrail said:

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Teslag said:

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There are large variations in PTSD ratings. Can range from 0, 10, 30, 50, 70, or 100. Most I see are in the 10 to 30 range. 50 isn't common, 70 rare, and 100 is almost a unicorn.

For example, 10% is

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Occupational and social impairment with occasional decrease in work efficiency and intermittent periods of inability to perform occupational tasks (although generally functioning satisfactorily, with routine behavior, self-care, and conversation normal), due to such symptoms as: depressed mood, anxiety, suspiciousness, panic attacks (weekly or less often), chronic sleep impairment, mild memory loss (such as forgetting names, directions, recent events).

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I will probably get roasted for this, but 10% sounds like Life and i bet 90% of the population could make a case for most or all of those, military service or not.

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You can certainly have the opinion that 90% of the civilian population has PTSD enough to rate a 10% rating. But that 90% didn't get it in service of the US tax payer while carrying out US policy, under a contract with the US Government that promises support for their injuries incurred in service as codified by US law. And that's a really big difference.

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What I am saying, in my opinion, is the symptoms above which aren't too terribly different from a bad hangover shouldn't qualify anybody at anytime under any circumstances for any kind of payment.

When you say "incurred in service" is that "while in" or "because of", which I think is a lot of the debate on this thread?

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I should have used the term "service-connected", which is what the VA uses for rating criteria. That would have been more precise.

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"Service-connected" sounds appropriate.

Based on the description of 10% and knowing how systems work, I just think someone could be asked "Do you ever feel a little down or depressed and don't feel like going into work?" and answer "Yes" like every other human being who has ever had a job and congratulations, here is your 10% for life from the taxpayer.

Having said that, I do realize thousands of veterans have service-connected injuries that prevent them from being a full participant in life and they deserve whatever forms of compensation and comfort to attempt to make up for that.

And also there are a lot of people that game the myriad of entitlement systems, not just the VA Disability.

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Here is the exact questionnaire the VA examiner uses when evaluating PTSD. There is one of these for every rated condition the VA evaluates, so you can look at it and see for yourself if what you think is accurate.

https://www.benefits.va.gov/compensation/docs/PTSD_Review.pdf

The VA and the rating system are literally an open book. It's convoluted, it's not always easy to understand, and it can be maddeningly complex and frustrating to navigate, but every bit of it is open records. A lot of posters (not specifically you) could clear up some of their often ridiculous speculation by spending 5 minutes with Google and an hour reading. But that requires work, and being outraged by a secondhand story is much easier and emotionally satisfying for some, I guess.

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I read the form in your link and I see where all the symptoms that were listed by another poster as 10% and 70% came from. The form gathers the data and there isn't a specified straight line between the symptoms to arrive at 10% or 70% or nn%,.but I wouldn't expect there to be as much of this type of psychological evaluation is a judgement call.. There isn't an objective way to measure this kind of criteria. Without knowing the actual data on this you cannot make a judgement if these 10% diagnoses are being handed out like candy or with real discernment.

I can only speak for myself, but I think the "outrage" is the perception there are "a lot" of people getting disability because of a physical injury yet are able to perform jobs requiring manual labor, play recreational sports and do other strenuous physical activity and don't actually seem to be held back by any physical limitations. Things like PTSD are a different animal.

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There are guys with physical injuries they are being compensated for that still also perform manual work. My elbows and wrists are so messed up that my hands cramp and lock up and I drop wrenches when I'm working on my bike. You know what I do? I suck it up, pick up my wrench, and work through the pain. Work still has to get done.

When I was still in, I knew a guy with 3 fused vertebrae who fought his way back onto jump status because he couldn't stand the thought of letting his young soldiers go back to the sandbox without him There are guys who lost legs in combat still actively serving in combat roles, including in SOF. You think those guys can't still do physical work despite their injuries? Or do you think they shouldn't be compensated for their broken spines and missing limbs because they can suck it up and drive on?

It's easy to draw a split second conclusion when you see a new Corvette parked outside the gym with DV plates. But the reality is you have no idea what his rating is for, what his rating is, or what he does for a living. And frankly, it's none of your business.

I can promise you he isn't buying that Corvette with just VA compensation. No one is getting rich on VA money. I'm not sure exactly what a 100% rating gets you in VA compensation, but it's somewhere around $4000 a month. A little more if you are married or have a kid. No one is getting rich on VA money alone.

Would be better if we cut the disability rolls in half.

Our veterans deserve EVERYTHING. But there are plenty who are milking it.

My point is.. start with the NON veterans on disability. This is what Obama expanded in his term.

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When I was still in, I knew a guy with 3 fused vertebrae who fought his way back onto jump status because he couldn't stand the thought of letting his young soldiers go back to the sandbox without him There are guys who lost legs in combat still actively serving in combat roles, including in SOF. You think those guys can't still do physical work despite their injuries? Or do you think they shouldn't be compensated for their broken spines and missing limbs because they can suck it up and drive on?

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Like I posted a couple of pages back, the VA itself says disability payments' "percentage ratings represent as far as can practicably be determined the average impairment in earning capacity resulting from such diseases and injuries and their residual conditions in civil occupations."

It doesn't say anything about compensating for missing limbs, fused vertebrae or any medical conditions in and of themselves. But unless the VA changes the reasons for payments, medical conditions themselves are not being compensated for, just the expected loss of income that might come from them.

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I can promise you he isn't buying that Corvette with just VA compensation. No one is getting rich on VA money. I'm not sure exactly what a 100% rating gets you in VA compensation, but it's somewhere around $4000 a month. A little more if you are married or have a kid. No one is getting rich on VA money alone.

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If the express purpose of payments, according to the VA, is to cover loss of earning capacity, then technically folks like that, who are making a nice income outside of disability payments, probably shouldn't be getting them.

BBRex said:

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When I was still in, I knew a guy with 3 fused vertebrae who fought his way back onto jump status because he couldn't stand the thought of letting his young soldiers go back to the sandbox without him There are guys who lost legs in combat still actively serving in combat roles, including in SOF. You think those guys can't still do physical work despite their injuries? Or do you think they shouldn't be compensated for their broken spines and missing limbs because they can suck it up and drive on?

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Like I posted a couple of pages back, the VA itself says disability payments' "percentage ratings represent as far as can practicably be determined the average impairment in earning capacity resulting from such diseases and injuries and their residual conditions in civil occupations."

It doesn't say anything about compensating for missing limbs, fused vertebrae or any medical conditions in and of themselves. But unless the VA changes the reasons for payments, medical conditions themselves are not being compensated for, just the expected loss of income that might come from them.

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I can promise you he isn't buying that Corvette with just VA compensation. No one is getting rich on VA money. I'm not sure exactly what a 100% rating gets you in VA compensation, but it's somewhere around $4000 a month. A little more if you are married or have a kid. No one is getting rich on VA money alone.

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If the express purpose of payments, according to the VA, is to cover loss of earning capacity, then technically folks like that, who are making a nice income outside of disability payments, probably shouldn't be getting them.

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You are getting hung up on the words "earning capacity" and not the previous ones "as far as can be practically determined the average impairment in".

It's not saying someone with a 100% rating can't earn a living…or even a good living. What it is saying is that their injuries have impaired how much their earning capacity could be if they didn't have those injuries, and the compensation scale they have is the best way they've come up with to compensate for it.

Let's take hypothetical DV Corvette guy. Maybe he makes $100k a year at his job. He's got a 50% rating for his PTSD, tinnitus, and his jacked up back, which is the minimum rating to get DV plates, IIRC. 50% rating currently pays $1132 a month. (Because VA ratings aren't linear at all). He misses an average of 5 days a month of work for physical therapy. At meetings, he can't always hear sidebars, he has to ask people to repeat themselves, and his PTSD makes him uncomfortable dealing with new people and changes as well as some of his colleagues. He doesn't speak up to his boss about some of his difficulties, because he doesn't want to deal with the stigma of being labeled as the crazy vet with PTSD who's going to snap He doesn't want to get ahead on his disability alone, and he knows plenty of guys who came out worse than him, so he keeps his mouth shut and does his best. So he doesn't get raises at the rates of his peers, and he watches them get promoted past him. His work is generally solid, but his missed time and difficulty in social situation cause him to stall in his career. Do you think over the course of his career that $1132/month is going to actually make up for his missed earning potential?

So DV Corvette continues to deal with it quietly, watching others pass him by. He goes to the gym a lot, because his therapist and doctors all tell him it's good for dealing with his PTSD. And he buys a new corvette because well, he earned it, and it makes him feel better about himself. And he knows that everywhere he goes some random person is thinking, "look at that lying piece of ***** It's not like he's missing a leg or anything. How dare he drive a nice car and have those cripple plates! I bet he's committing fraud!" And then that person runs off to ***** about him to all their friends on the Internet, where they all pat themselves on the back for how much better and more righteous they are than he is.

You still think that $1132 a month is worth it?

insulator king: "I imagine the thought process is that while deployed, we spent 6, 8 10 months, sometimes much more away from our families.

And if folks are mad, upset, think it's unfair, or whatever term you want to call it, you were certainly free to have joined, and you would have reaped the same 'benefits'."

WINNER, WINNER, CHICKEN DINNER!
I spent 4 years of my life in Muslim hellholes. Shot at, machine gunned, mortared, RPGd, and rockets (115 in Afghanistan alone hit my compound). Hell, I even had a SCUD land while we were staging in Kuwait about 1 mile from "Camp Commando". Lived in a JLIST for 15 days straight in Iraq - with uniform and body armor. Ate MREs and T-PACKs for 5 weeks straight. **** in a 55gal drum filled with diesel. No shower for 3 months. IEDs and Land Mines so thick you feared walking off the road.

Here's to the "almost joined" and to the "I couldn't join b/c I would have punched the Drill SGT" now griping online.

EDIT: MEDCOM or Public Health Command sent Industrial Hygienist out to Afghanistan (cannot say they went to Iraq, but I bet they did). Look at the air, water, and air sample contaminate results. I have the report for Kandahar for 2011-2012.

EDIT: The Army recently published an EXORD on Blast Over Pressure and the short- and long-term health effects. Another interesting read.

EDIT: And don't forget the Burn Pits. They are / will be the Agent Orange of this generation. If you served in Iraq or Afghanistan and have not done so, register at the Burn Pit Registry.

I'd like to point out some history that plays a part in the treatment of veterans, and that was the Bonus March by WW1 vets in 1932 during the depths of the great depression.
Most considered the response to the Veterans march an overreaction by Hard Headed Herbert Hoover and the Army, and led to Hoovers defeat by FDR, who came with his own set of problems.

Fast Facts: March of the Veterans Bonus Army
Short Description: 17,000 World War I veterans occupy Washington, D.C., and march on the U.S. Capitol to demand payment of promised military service bonuses.
Key Participants:
- President of the United States Herbert Hoover
- U.S. Army General Douglas MacArthur
- U.S. Army Major George S. Patton
- U.S. Secretary of War Patrick J. Hurley
- District of Columbia Police Department
- At least 17,000 U.S, WWI veterans and 45,000 supporting protesters
Location: In and around Washington, D.C., and the United States Capitol grounds
Start Date: May 1932
End Date: July 29, 1932
Other Significant Dates:
- June 17, 1932: U.S. Senate defeated a bill that would have advanced the date of payment of bonuses to the veterans. Two veterans and two D.C. police officers die in the ensuing protest.
- July 29, 1932: On the order of President Hoover, through Sec. of War Hurley, U.S. Army troops commanded by Maj. George S. Patton attack the veterans forcing them from their encampments and effectively ending the crisis. A total of 55 veterans were injured and another 135 were arrested.

https://www.thoughtco.com/bonus-army-march-4147568
Some other links;
https://veteransbreakfastclub.org/when-veterans-stormed-the-capital-the-march-of-the-bonus-army-of-1932-part-1/
https://veteransbreakfastclub.org/when-veterans-stormed-the-capital-the-march-of-the-bonus-army-of-1932-part-2/
http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/bonusm.htm
https://www.dav.org/learn-more/news/2020/the-bonus-army-march/

maverick2076 said:

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BBRex said:

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When I was still in, I knew a guy with 3 fused vertebrae who fought his way back onto jump status because he couldn't stand the thought of letting his young soldiers go back to the sandbox without him There are guys who lost legs in combat still actively serving in combat roles, including in SOF. You think those guys can't still do physical work despite their injuries? Or do you think they shouldn't be compensated for their broken spines and missing limbs because they can suck it up and drive on?

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Like I posted a couple of pages back, the VA itself says disability payments' "percentage ratings represent as far as can practicably be determined the average impairment in earning capacity resulting from such diseases and injuries and their residual conditions in civil occupations."

It doesn't say anything about compensating for missing limbs, fused vertebrae or any medical conditions in and of themselves. But unless the VA changes the reasons for payments, medical conditions themselves are not being compensated for, just the expected loss of income that might come from them.

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I can promise you he isn't buying that Corvette with just VA compensation. No one is getting rich on VA money. I'm not sure exactly what a 100% rating gets you in VA compensation, but it's somewhere around $4000 a month. A little more if you are married or have a kid. No one is getting rich on VA money alone.

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If the express purpose of payments, according to the VA, is to cover loss of earning capacity, then technically folks like that, who are making a nice income outside of disability payments, probably shouldn't be getting them.

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You are getting hung up on the words "earning capacity" and not the previous ones "as far as can be practically determined the average impairment in".

It's not saying someone with a 100% rating can't earn a living…or even a good living. What it is saying is that their injuries have impaired how much their earning capacity could be if they didn't have those injuries, and the compensation scale they have is the best way they've come up with to compensate for it.

Let's take hypothetical DV Corvette guy. Maybe he makes $100k a year at his job. He's got a 50% rating for his PTSD, tinnitus, and his jacked up back, which is the minimum rating to get DV plates, IIRC. 50% rating currently pays $1132 a month. (Because VA ratings aren't linear at all). He misses an average of 5 days a month of work for physical therapy. At meetings, he can't always hear sidebars, he has to ask people to repeat themselves, and his PTSD makes him uncomfortable dealing with new people and changes as well as some of his colleagues. He doesn't speak up to his boss about some of his difficulties, because he doesn't want to deal with the stigma of being labeled as the crazy vet with PTSD who's going to snap He doesn't want to get ahead on his disability alone, and he knows plenty of guys who came out worse than him, so he keeps his mouth shut and does his best. So he doesn't get raises at the rates of his peers, and he watches them get promoted past him. His work is generally solid, but his missed time and difficulty in social situation cause him to stall in his career. Do you think over the course of his career that $1132/month is going to actually make up for his missed earning potential?

So DV Corvette continues to deal with it quietly, watching others pass him by. He goes to the gym a lot, because his therapist and doctors all tell him it's good for dealing with his PTSD. And he buys a new corvette because well, he earned it, and it makes him feel better about himself. And he knows that everywhere he goes some random person is thinking, "look at that lying piece of ***** It's not like he's missing a leg or anything. How dare he drive a nice car and have those cripple plates! I bet he's committing fraud!" And then that person runs off to ***** about him to all their friends on the Internet, where they all pat themselves on the back for how much better and more righteous they are than he is.

You still think that $1132 a month is worth it?

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It's honestly pretty shocking and sad (even with my much lowered expectations of F16 these days) to see Ags who are literally this narrow minded and ignorant about the world to judge someone by their car and their apparent "okayness" by a glance over to be judged a disability scammer and dismissing their integrity altogether.

Kudos to you for trying to get through though. To much like lecturing a spoiled brat preteen for me to attempt.

If you've ever been in the military, you know people are scamming the taxpayers via the VA "disability" system. We've seen people admit it openly right here on TexAgs. It's shameful and the system needs reform.

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EDIT: And don't forget the Burn Pits. They are / will be the Agent Orange of this generation. If you served in Iraq or Afghanistan and have not done so, register at the Burn Pit Registry.

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I was there one deployment with a medical unit and we would dispose of expired meds, including fentanyl, other opioids, Ambien, etc, in a drum outside by burning. We had to watch it and witness the destruction by law and it was only 20 meters or so from our tents. Still convinced most of my issues (migraines, breathing, GI) came from that.

Most people are petty, vindictive, and jealous and this rule exemplified all that, it had no thought whatsoever to it. People that say if a Veteran can function with 100% disability is somehow a scammer, have no clue what the hell they are talking about.

Aggie12B said:

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If you never took the oath and put the uniform on, quit your damn b****ing about benefits given to Veterans.
It's true that there are some veterans who take advantage of the system, but the vast majority of Veterans earned what they are given as compensation for illnesses and injuries that are a result of their time in service; especially those who served in combat

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Not a good place to play the "V card". Nobody's talking combat tactics and surviving in war here, and one doesn't need to have been in the military to understand that there are d-bags out there scamming the system just like every other government disability system. Veterans hold no special immunity to this. Hell, I have a cousin who tried for years to get PTSD disability for Desert Storm - he unloaded ships in Saudi Arabia.