If it takes this much time, effort and wherewithal to remediate fraud, any talk about the national debt just falls on deaf ears!

Who cares what the interest payment is or how it compares to military spending, social security, etc.

Too many people have been given the keys to government that are incompetent, dishonest nitwits!

Why even bother having the discussion?

dds08 said:

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Why even bother having the discussion?

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you started the thread to have the discuss so you tell us

I saw a commercial about the national debt.

I'd like to report fraudulent activity on the national account.

Trillion here a trillion there, wake me up when the debt reaches quadrillion.

Democrats only want to stop paying for legitimate government services (ICE). They have no problem funding anything fake that allows money to be laundered.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Democrats only want to stop paying for legitimate government services (ICE). They have no problem funding anything fake that allows money to be laundered.

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They'll pay for 87,000 new IRS agents to go after us (the taxpayers); when they should be going after the fraudsters.

The Federal government needs to be staved of money. Congress is full of buffoons, crooks and too few good men. Nobody audits the spending and then corrects the problems. Congress is too irresponsible to allow them to have our money. The punishment for fraud should be elimination of the program and 20 years in jail for the fraudulent and firing the politicians.

One of three things will happen:

1) Reform will all happen suddenly, and a lot of people will choose to go the side of additional legislation to avoid jailtime. Once the dam breaks, and the second coming of Elliot Ness is given the green light, it could be a complete bloodbath, including a few targeted assassinations by the blob to try and protect the fraud;

2) The US government will fail, and we will have something a lot like the French Revolution, where everyone gets axed, and the US government fails to operate properly for a couple of decades; or

3) A strong handed right wing tyrant will be elected to POTUS that makes Trump look like a puppy dog. America will have her turn at putting a Napoleon / Pinochet / Hitler type into power, and that person will consolidate all of the corruption in DC into his own camp. An assassination / coup will occur after some time, and some patriots will eventually help bring the country back from the ashes that are left. America will never regain the international power it had, but American Exceptionalism will not die, and we will be competitive with the world again after a time.

I just don't see any other way out of this mess.

DOGE has only given us a glimpse at what the problem is.

BusterAg said:

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One of three things will happen:

1) Reform will all happen suddenly, and a lot of people will choose to go the side of additional legislation to avoid jailtime. Once the dam breaks, and the second coming of Elliot Ness is given the green light, it could be a complete bloodbath, including a few targeted assassinations by the blob to try and protect the fraud;

2) The US government will fail, and we will have something a lot like the French Revolution, where everyone gets axed, and the US government fails to operate properly for a couple of decades; or

3) A strong handed right wing tyrant will be elected to POTUS that makes Trump look like a puppy dog. America will have her turn at putting a Napoleon / Pinochet / Hitler type into power, and that person will consolidate all of the corruption in DC into his own camp. An assassination / coup will occur after some time, and some patriots will eventually help bring the country back from the ashes that are left. America will never regain the international power it had, but American Exceptionalism will not die, and we will be competitive with the world again after a time.

I just don't see any other way out of this mess.

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if they dont stop this fraud, it will get really bad and then have a major impact on everyone....

If you go into politics with less than $1,000 in your account and then 4 years later are worth in the millions, there is probably more fraud and illegal activity happening in Congress than in a lot of the Dem hellholes around the country.

What gets me is the Democrats while committing all this fraud, at one time were pushing for a whole host of tax increases as if the.government was running short of money.

Honestly, at some level of fraud and money laundering….execution would be a proper punishment.

I lived/worked in Vietnam and if I remember right, two bank executives were executed for embezzlement. I believe they were tried, had one additional review and was executed all in 14 months time.

I don't know why, but the debt issue does not engage people at all. Maybe it's too abstract for now. Not sure but the vast majority of people don't even think about it.

It won't change until it hits the fan. From a high level, people and organizations lend money to the government based on one criterion - the perception that the government will pay the interest when due and will return the investment when the contract expires. How does the government get the money to do that? Through taxes. So as long as the market perceives that the US government has the ability to raise enough through taxes to honor the debt, then the debt will continue to grow. It's going to take some sort of calamity/financial crisis/fan hitting incident for that to change, and for now we are content to burden our children and grandchildren with the higher taxes and/or reduced benefits that will be necessary to sustain the deficit spending.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Democrats only want to stop paying for legitimate government services (ICE). They have no problem funding anything fake that allows money to be laundered.

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If you look at the highest taxed areas in the US they often have some of the worst infrastructure or you have to pay extra fees to get things that should be paid for with those taxes. Look at the poop river story. Look at the response to the fires in California or the train project that doesn't actually build train tracks. Places like San Francisco, LA, NYC, etc have insane taxes but also look like they are falling apart. Most of the money funnels to a complex web of consultants and contractors that are all tied to politicians or to bloated bureaucracies that are basically a jobs program of people that do nothing productive and just get in the way, that's why they love regulation because it is a monster cash cow. Of course the biggest key is no accountability.