DART is falling apart

6,535 Views | 73 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by VP at Pierce and Pierce
fc2112
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Posting here instead of the Metroplex board since it is a governmental unit that is failing at it's mission and on the verge of collapse.

Dallas Area Rapid Transit started decades ago as an attempt to create a regional transit authority with light rail. The initial promised 160 miles of rail got scaled back to 84 miles as costs ballooned. Grand Prairie, Arlington and Fort worth stayed out, thus making it a Dallas County centered system. All funded by a 1 cent sales tax

And most of these cities have only a bus stop or two to show for it. They also have little representation on the governing board, which is dominated by Dallas.

Well, after decades of waste and billions of tax dollars collected, a lot of these cities that joined are now trying to get out. Last night, Addison joined Plano, Irving, Farmers Branch, Highland Park and University Park in scheduling exit elections. Others could follow suit, and cities have until late February to pull the item from spring ballots and until mid-March to officially rescind elections.

DART is trying to cajole these cities into staying with all sorts of promises. Interestingly, if any city votes to leave, service stops the next day but sales tax collection continues for years until that cities part of the debt is paid off.

Meanwhile, cities like Arlington have started micro transit options where you can travel anywhere within Arlington for $3 each way. Frankly, I've used it a few times and it's quicker than a bus but not as convenient as an Uber. Arlington also is toying with autonomous transit options and has run pilot programs in the entertainment district. The sales tax in Arlington, instead, went to bring the Cowboys and keep the Rangers.

Here's an article about the latest move. If cities start leaving, this may be the death spiral for DART.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/transportation/2026/01/27/addison-city-council-becomes-sixth-to-schedule-election-on-dart-exit/
91AggieLawyer
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Vote it out!

I think the Micro transit system MAY work. However, I wonder if it generates enough user revenue to make it possible to survive without depending on so much tax revenue. Otherwise, you've got somewhat of a DART 2.0 situation.

Sid Farkas
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FIDO*98*
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The CyberTaxi is going to cripple mass transit in large cities that aren't as dense as NY, Chicago, etc.. Musk is claiming a 20c per mile target so a 10 mile private trip would only be $2. Who would ever take DART over that?
JFABNRGR
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Interesting theyre are a couple of DART contracts out for bid right now. One is for double tracking from medical center west with new bridges over Inwood and the creek just west. Estimated in the hundreds of millions.
“You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me.”
- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
Psycho Bunny
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For a minute I thought this was a thread about the Dodge Dart. They too were about as solid as a government subsidized light rail.
Whether I get life's question right or wrong free will is an illusion.
Life is a game that plays us.
Are we dreaming of life or is life dreaming of us.
aggiehawg
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Rode it once. In 2009.

Scarier than NY subways in the 70s. (Maybe my perception was altered by being with my Dad.)
normalhorn
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I ride DART trains 1/2 days per week during mild weather seasons.
Coincidentally, a tenant across the hall from my office consults for DART (ie grifts). We chat about a lot local issues, and DART came up last year between us. He asked if I'd be interested in meeting with their leadership to be a voice for them to bounce ideas off of
I did, and it was hilarious how inept this business is. The fact that it's taken this long for it to go by the wayside is a testament to how municipalities can siphon off of the taxpayers way too easily
...take it easy on me, I'm a normal horn
normalhorn
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aggiehawg said:

Rode it once. In 2009.

Scarier than NY subways in the 70s. (Maybe my perception was altered by being with my Dad.)


You're not wrong. I'm not a huge guy (6', 185), white business professional. I ALWAYS keep my senses alert, though. And it doesn't hurt that I don't ever ride it without my "downtown" CC- SigP226 vs a smaller 9mm for being out running errands. About once a month there's a shooting, and it's not getting any better
...take it easy on me, I'm a normal horn
shiftyandquick
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aggiehawg said:

Rode it once. In 2009.

Scarier than NY subways in the 70s. (Maybe my perception was altered by being with my Dad.)

what were NY subways like in the 70s? I have an idea based on Bronson films but I can't know for certain that revenge films are an accurate representation of reality.
Ducks4brkfast
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JFABNRGR said:

Interesting theyre are a couple of DART contracts out for bid right now. One is for double tracking from medical center west with new bridges over Inwood and the creek just west. Estimated in the hundreds of millions.


Yes, came here to say this. Big project. We'll bid it but not sure the timing will work for us.
Tony Franklins Other Shoe
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Psycho Bunny said:

For a minute I thought this was a thread about the Dodge Dart. They too were about as solid as a government subsidized light rail.


Mine was a 1974 hand me down thru an older brother and sister.

Person Not Capable of Pregnancy
twk
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I've ridden DART twice, both times to go to sporting events (OU-Texas and a Stars game) from the park and ride lot in Carrollton. It was handy for that, but Dallas isn't New York, London, or Paris and doesn't have the density to justify this kind of expensive mass transit. I think they were hoping that it would spur that kind of high density development, but it really hasn't, at least not on the scale needed to justify the cost.
shiftyandquick
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the Silver line to the airport is a game changer for using DFW airport. No longer have to pay for long-term parking or uber/taxi.

Just try to think of what big city in the world that has a rail system, really wishes it didn't and is going to dismantle it.
Martin Cash
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Does Frisco have a rapid transit system?
twk
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shiftyandquick said:

the Silver line to the airport is a game changer for using DFW airport. No longer have to pay for long-term parking or uber/taxi.

Just try to think of what big city in the world that has a rail system, really wishes it didn't and is going to dismantle it.

That is a rather superficial way to look at it. Sure, there are times when you might find it useful, but the question here is whether it is worth it to spend hundreds of millions of tax dollars on what really is little more than a prestige project. Maybe you don't like doing math, but that is what would drive the decision if cities were acting logically.
TriAg2010
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I was morbidly curious to try DART from the KBH Convention Center to Love Field last year. Holy lord what a mistake that was. The train was probably 1/3rds indigents, 1/3rd people holding wounds on their way to Parkland, and 1/3rd empty seats smelling of urine.
Urban Ag
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Mass transit




GAC06
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FIDO*98* said:

The CyberTaxi is going to cripple mass transit in large cities that aren't as dense as NY, Chicago, etc.. Musk is claiming a 20c per mile target so a 10 mile private trip would only be $2. Who would ever take DART over that?


And with a robot driving, no foot fatigue
AgEngineer72
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I worked for DART 19 years and was heavily involved with the light rail build out. To say that I understand the system, the rail cars, and the technical issues is an understatement. I also understand the politics of the company, the cities (as they relate to DART), the construction contracting, and all the shenanigans. It was a monster that was that was permeated with liberal, big government thinking and I never understood how it survived. But it kept devouring funds and growing. I retired from there at the end of 2020 and don't miss it. It gave me huge insight to how big government, and Washington DC, works and into how we have such a mess in the country today.
Trajan88
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Not a DART light rail incident, directly.

Years ago I went to Dallas' Mockingbird Station to see a movie at the Angelic a theater.

When I left the parking lot I followed other cars... none of us realized we were in a "bus-only" lane .... very little markings and it was nearly 11 pm, and dark.

A couple of DART police rolled out of their parked cruiser and gave us all warning tickets for being in a the lane illegally. Heck ... maybe some of the first couple cars got real tickets, not warnings.

That was the last time I went to Mockingbird station for anything... movies, Trinity Hall pub, restaurants.

Maybe those lazy *** cops should have done more important work like throwing the homeless, vagrants, and non-paying riders off the trains... maybe, just maybe DART today would be a gem instead of a money pit.

YouBet
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FIDO*98* said:

The CyberTaxi is going to cripple mass transit in large cities that aren't as dense as NY, Chicago, etc.. Musk is claiming a 20c per mile target so a 10 mile private trip would only be $2. Who would ever take DART over that?

Yep, these cities are smart getting out. It's a failed business model just like HSR. Absolutely zero reason to invest money in light rail.
YouBet
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shiftyandquick said:

the Silver line to the airport is a game changer for using DFW airport. No longer have to pay for long-term parking or uber/taxi.

Just try to think of what big city in the world that has a rail system, really wishes it didn't and is going to dismantle it.

Logical fallacy for the most part. Most big cities have heavily ingrained rail systems that have been around for decades. And many of those are failing. See the NYC sub system as a great example.

Going forward, there is zero reason for newer big cities to invest in light rail considering the game changing technology changes in the very near-term. Especially in an extremely spread out, geographical juggernaut like the DFW. Dallas was always stupid to have built this. Just utterly unnecessary.
kubiak03
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Wow, DART has always been the poster boy of a great, well run rail transit system.

Yet another example of government's horrible return of investment and I have no doubt there has been millions in fraud over the years.
Muy
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Let DART go the way of the Las Colinas Disney Tram. All scams that should be left in the air as a reminder of the idiots who voted for this crap.

It doesn't take a traffic engineer to see the difference between a closely congested big city like Boston or Chicago and a spread out metroplex like DFW.
rsf0626
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Real bummer for people who use DART to commute to/from work

Hoping for the best but expecting the worst
rsf0626
Chetos
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rsf0626 said:

Real bummer for people who use DART to commute to/from work

Hoping for the best but expecting the worst


DART bot or sarcasm?
nortex97
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Martin Cash said:

Does Frisco have a rapid transit system?

No, and mercifully we don't have a DART rail line either. On the 'other' side of Lake Lewisville it's a shuttle for 'youths' from downtown Dallas to ride for free to Lewisville/Carrollton etc. to get into trouble.
https://www.dcta.net/getting-around/rail-bus-services/a-train
Frisco participates in DCTA for elderly etc:
https://www.friscotexas.gov/DocumentCenter/View/31628/Frisco-Demand-Response-flyer---March-1-vehicle-change-PDF?bidId=
I don't have any good things to say about DART.
Who?mikejones!
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YouBet said:

shiftyandquick said:

the Silver line to the airport is a game changer for using DFW airport. No longer have to pay for long-term parking or uber/taxi.

Just try to think of what big city in the world that has a rail system, really wishes it didn't and is going to dismantle it.

Logical fallacy for the most part. Most big cities have heavily ingrained rail systems that have been around for decades. And many of those are failing. See the NYC sub system as a great example.

Going forward, there is zero reason for newer big cities to invest in light rail considering the game changing technology changes in the very near-term. Especially in an extremely spread out, geographical juggernaut like the DFW. Dallas was always stupid to have built this. Just utterly unnecessary.


Yep, rail is about to go the way of the trolley.

Robo taxis are the future
ts5641
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Get rid of it. Useless government bloat. In the police world we called the DART train the crime train.
Duffel Pud
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Martin Cash said:

Does Frisco have a rapid transit system?


F.A.R.T.?
fc2112
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I have ridden trains in other cities and thought it was great. Boston, London, Berlin. But no, the D/FW area just doesn't work.

One of the reasons Jerry Jones wanted his new stadium in Arlington was because there WAS no rail. He thus could force more people to pay for parking.
Burdizzo
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AgEngineer72 said:

I worked for DART 19 years and was heavily involved with the light rail build out. To say that I understand the system, the rail cars, and the technical issues is an understatement. I also understand the politics of the company, the cities (as they relate to DART), the construction contracting, and all the shenanigans. It was a monster that was that was permeated with liberal, big government thinking and I never understood how it survived. But it kept devouring funds and growing. I retired from there at the end of 2020 and don't miss it. It gave me huge insight to how big government, and Washington DC, works and into how we have such a mess in the country today.



One of my college classmates does consulting engineering work for DART. They also have done some work for the California mega rail project. He talks about how much money has been dumped into and the little progress that has been made, yet his company continues to work on it. His exact words were, "We just keep sucking on that tit."
MGS
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shiftyandquick said:

the Silver line to the airport is a game changer for using DFW airport. No longer have to pay for long-term parking or uber/taxi.

Just try to think of what big city in the world that has a rail system, really wishes it didn't and is going to dismantle it.

$2 billion to save on parking for a few people.
Who?mikejones!
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I cant hardly think of worse public investment in the south than public transportation.

How many collective trillions have we spent and how much more is necessary to reach whatever undefined goal there is?

We could just buy everyone a tesla robot car when they are available and be a lot better off and probably spend far less
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