Nothing the left does is about truth. It's about chaos, division, and power. That's why no outrage over any of these. It's only when it's convenient to their cause.

Lathspell said:

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BonfireNerd04 said:

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People should listen to Chris Rock.

---

This is what I link to people, all the time.

The difference between my experiences and others, when dealing with law enforcement, has nothing to do with my race or ethnicity. I am simply always respectful and do what they ask.

Now, if they ask to search my car or home, I will tell them I need to see a warrant first. If they were to pull me out aggressively and do it anyways, I wouldn't fight. I would let them do it, and then later grab their badge numbers and names, and file an official complaint. Depending on everything that went down, I would determine whether a complaint was enough or if civil or criminal legal action is required.

It's really not that hard.

---

This would literally end all police shootings. Such a simple concept.

ShaggySLC said:

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TexasAggie_97 said:

---

Decay said:

---

Pretti did nothing except you know physically resist arresr while carrying a weapon

Other than that, nothing!!

---

This was a very unfortunate situation for all involved. A video has been released showing agents yelling he's got a gun, he's got a gun. Then the same video shows the officers securing his gun and walking away with it meaning it is no longer a threat to the officers. The same video then shows 2 agents pull their guns and shoot the unarmed man while he is on the ground. At this point he was not a threat to the officers, and they should have taken him into custody. Pretti was legally licensed to carry his gun, and I have not seen any videos with him pointing it at any of the officers, so I am not sure why they took the actions that they did.

I would imagine that the pressure will be too great for this to be swept under the rug especially with the clear video showing what appears to be a bad shoot.

---

This has been gone over many times, yet you refuse to understand that these are flat out false. Prove the cops knew the gun was gone, and if he was still wrestling with them, he's 100% a threat. Without his ID and permit, he was not legally carrying, committing a felony with the gun is also not legally carrying. Why is that so hard for people like you to grasp? Liberals crying isn't pressure. If the cop got off clean in the Babbit and guy at the hotel cases, no chance this guy gets arrested. Terrible situation created completely by Pretti.

---

WTF are you talking about? This is the first time I have even commented on this and trust me I am the furthest thing from a liberal that you can be. I also don't just eat up whatever the government says, and I have this pesky habit of trusting my own eyes and then doing a bit of thinking on the issue after some time has passed because more info usually comes out. With that being said there is clear video of Pretti standing with his hands up showing he has nothing in his hands and then the agents rushing him, tackling him, spraying him with pepper spray, beating him, taking his gun and walking away with it and when he had the nerve to try and defend himself, he gets shot. Show me any video of him brandishing his gun and pointing it at ICE or even threatening to shoot them if they don't leave. So far, all that I have seen is them being pissed that people are making their lives difficult and they went across the street to him and instigated what happened.

Video, witnesses shed new light on moments before agents fatally shot Alex Pretti | CNN

Now if you have additional video that shows him threatening the agents then by all means please share it and I will happily admit it was a valid shoot.

Don't comment on a thread without reading the whole thing. This has been gone over multiple times. You believe simplified versions of events that are impossible in the moment. You believe everything can be known by everyone involved at the instant they happen. It's naive

ETA maybe It isn't in this thread, but it is in about 40 other threads on this topic. Read those

TexasAggie_97 said:

---

ShaggySLC said:

---

TexasAggie_97 said:

---

Decay said:

---

Pretti did nothing except you know physically resist arresr while carrying a weapon

Other than that, nothing!!

---

This was a very unfortunate situation for all involved. A video has been released showing agents yelling he's got a gun, he's got a gun. Then the same video shows the officers securing his gun and walking away with it meaning it is no longer a threat to the officers. The same video then shows 2 agents pull their guns and shoot the unarmed man while he is on the ground. At this point he was not a threat to the officers, and they should have taken him into custody. Pretti was legally licensed to carry his gun, and I have not seen any videos with him pointing it at any of the officers, so I am not sure why they took the actions that they did.

I would imagine that the pressure will be too great for this to be swept under the rug especially with the clear video showing what appears to be a bad shoot.

---

This has been gone over many times, yet you refuse to understand that these are flat out false. Prove the cops knew the gun was gone, and if he was still wrestling with them, he's 100% a threat. Without his ID and permit, he was not legally carrying, committing a felony with the gun is also not legally carrying. Why is that so hard for people like you to grasp? Liberals crying isn't pressure. If the cop got off clean in the Babbit and guy at the hotel cases, no chance this guy gets arrested. Terrible situation created completely by Pretti.

---

WTF are you talking about? This is the first time I have even commented on this and trust me I am the furthest thing from a liberal that you can be. I also don't just eat up whatever the government says, and I have this pesky habit of trusting my own eyes and then doing a bit of thinking on the issue after some time has passed because more info usually comes out. With that being said there is clear video of Pretti standing with his hands up showing he has nothing in his hands and then the agents rushing him, tackling him, spraying him with pepper spray, beating him, taking his gun and walking away with it and when he had the nerve to try and defend himself, he gets shot. Show me any video of him brandishing his gun and pointing it at ICE or even threatening to shoot them if they don't leave. So far, all that I have seen is them being pissed that people are making their lives difficult and they went across the street to him and instigated what happened.

Video, witnesses shed new light on moments before agents fatally shot Alex Pretti | CNN

Now if you have additional video that shows him threatening the agents then by all means please share it and I will happily admit it was a valid shoot.

---

Touchy, not once did I call you a liberal so why don't chill with the WTF. Not a great way to start but that's you when your first comment confirms you haven't read much about before commenting. So thinking he was resisting is trusting the government now? Really? I trust my eyes too, he was wrestling with the cops when he was shot, that i debatable. When he put his hands on an agent when they were getting the girl in white, he committed a felony. Whether he was showing the gun or not is irrelevant. There is clear video of him actively fighting with agents. Unfortunately there's a good chance you get hurt fighting with cops. Good shoot or bad shoot will be determined but Pretti is dead because he put himself in a position to get shot. Sure it looks ugly but that's the hard truth.

GeorgiAg said:

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God, can you imagine if Pretti & Good were black? It'd be fentanyl Floyd all over again.

---

Someone please make a meme of Good & Plenty...

Phatbob said:

---

Don't comment on a thread without reading the whole thing. This has been gone over multiple times. You believe simplified versions of events that are impossible in the moment. You believe everything can be known by everyone involved at the instant they happen. It's naive

ETA maybe It isn't in this thread, but it is in about 40 other threads on this topic. Read those

---

No, no I don't but I what I do believe is those agents went over to him and not the other way around. Hell the video clearly shows that but let's just say that's not what happened for the sake of this conversation. What I also believe is that these agents have been trained in proper de-escalation techniques as well as the use of non-lethal methods. You cannot claim he was resisting and deserved to be shot unless you also think he did not have the right to defend himself after being pepper sprayed, beaten in the head with a metal canister multiple times, kicked, punched, etc. It's called fight or flight and there is no way that he was able to flee since there were about 5 agents on him. Again hindsight is always 20/20 but come on man do you really think what happened was deserved? Watch the video and at least agree that mistakes were made and now one man is dead and several officers will have to deal with their actions for the rest of their lives. All they had to do was NOT engage because again I have not seen any evidence that he was pointing his gun at the officers but again if there is video please show it.

People keep treating this as if it was a court of law. Phrases like "he didn't deserve to die" or "death sentence" do not apply in the heat of the moment. There is no time to gather all the details and know everything about the person in the 10-15 seconds that the entire event takes place.

Unless law enforcement has background on a person, they can only go on the immediate facts that they do know in the moment.

Is the person causing a potentially dangerous situation? _yes _no
are they complying with orders to remove themselves from the situation (deescalation)? _yes _no
are they resisting arrest? _yes _no
are they armed (being armed at any point means they have come to the situation armed)? _yes _no
has a weapon been discharged? _yes _no


These checkboxes change the situation immediately. There is no way to know within half a second if he has been disarmed, or if the gun that went off was an accidental discharge or desperate acts of the person being subdued.

"deserving" has nothing to do with anything. It is a matter of dangerous choices and inserting oneself into dangerous situations. Law enforcement knows they are putting themselves in dangerous situations every single day and act accordingly. These "protesters" are doing so without knowing how dangerous the situation could turn out to be.

ShaggySLC said:

---

TexasAggie_97 said:

---

ShaggySLC said:

---

TexasAggie_97 said:

---

Decay said:

---

Pretti did nothing except you know physically resist arresr while carrying a weapon

Other than that, nothing!!

---

This was a very unfortunate situation for all involved. A video has been released showing agents yelling he's got a gun, he's got a gun. Then the same video shows the officers securing his gun and walking away with it meaning it is no longer a threat to the officers. The same video then shows 2 agents pull their guns and shoot the unarmed man while he is on the ground. At this point he was not a threat to the officers, and they should have taken him into custody. Pretti was legally licensed to carry his gun, and I have not seen any videos with him pointing it at any of the officers, so I am not sure why they took the actions that they did.

I would imagine that the pressure will be too great for this to be swept under the rug especially with the clear video showing what appears to be a bad shoot.

---

This has been gone over many times, yet you refuse to understand that these are flat out false. Prove the cops knew the gun was gone, and if he was still wrestling with them, he's 100% a threat. Without his ID and permit, he was not legally carrying, committing a felony with the gun is also not legally carrying. Why is that so hard for people like you to grasp? Liberals crying isn't pressure. If the cop got off clean in the Babbit and guy at the hotel cases, no chance this guy gets arrested. Terrible situation created completely by Pretti.

---

WTF are you talking about? This is the first time I have even commented on this and trust me I am the furthest thing from a liberal that you can be. I also don't just eat up whatever the government says, and I have this pesky habit of trusting my own eyes and then doing a bit of thinking on the issue after some time has passed because more info usually comes out. With that being said there is clear video of Pretti standing with his hands up showing he has nothing in his hands and then the agents rushing him, tackling him, spraying him with pepper spray, beating him, taking his gun and walking away with it and when he had the nerve to try and defend himself, he gets shot. Show me any video of him brandishing his gun and pointing it at ICE or even threatening to shoot them if they don't leave. So far, all that I have seen is them being pissed that people are making their lives difficult and they went across the street to him and instigated what happened.

Video, witnesses shed new light on moments before agents fatally shot Alex Pretti | CNN

Now if you have additional video that shows him threatening the agents then by all means please share it and I will happily admit it was a valid shoot.

---

Touchy, not once did I call you a liberal so why don't chill with the WTF. Not a great way to start but that's you when your first comment confirms you haven't read much about before commenting. So thinking he was resisting is trusting the government now? Really? I trust my eyes too, he was wrestling with the cops when he was shot, that i debatable. When he put his hands on an agent when they were getting the girl in white, he committed a felony. Whether he was showing the gun or not is irrelevant. There is clear video of him actively fighting with agents. Unfortunately there's a good chance you get hurt fighting with cops. Good shoot or bad shoot will be determined but Pretti is dead because he put himself in a position to get shot. Sure it looks ugly but that's the hard truth.

---

My mistake, perhaps I took your comments " Why is that so hard for people like you to grasp? Liberals crying isn't pressure" the wrong way. Again I would suggest you watch the video I linked which has several vantage points and from what I have seen ICE escalated the situation not the other way around. He had his hands up, and they tackled him, beat him, and then realized that he had a gun, took it from him and then shot him numerous times. Again to me it just seems like many mistakes were made and a person lost his life.

I never thought the officer that shot Good was in the wrong since she tried to run him over with a car but in this case Pretti did not have the gun anymore and was clearly being subdued by no less than 5 agents when 2 of them drew their guns and started firing.

Sadly I fear that some people are giddy that this happened and both sides will try to use it to their advantage. I guess you never let a good crisis go to waste right?

TexasAggie_97 said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Don't comment on a thread without reading the whole thing. This has been gone over multiple times. You believe simplified versions of events that are impossible in the moment. You believe everything can be known by everyone involved at the instant they happen. It's naive

ETA maybe It isn't in this thread, but it is in about 40 other threads on this topic. Read those

---

No, no I don't but I what I do believe is those agents went over to him and not the other way around. Hell the video clearly shows that but let's just say that's not what happened for the sake of this conversation. What I also believe is that these agents have been trained in proper de-escalation techniques as well as the use of non-lethal methods. You cannot claim he was resisting and deserved to be shot unless you also think he did not have the right to defend himself after being pepper sprayed, beaten in the head with a metal canister multiple times, kicked, punched, etc. It's called fight or flight and there is no way that he was able to flee since there were about 5 agents on him. Again hindsight is always 20/20 but come on man do you really think what happened was deserved? Watch the video and at least agree that mistakes were made and now one man is dead and several officers will have to deal with their actions for the rest of their lives. All they had to do was NOT engage because again I have not seen any evidence that he was pointing his gun at the officers but again if there is video please show it.

---

You can 100% claim resisting even after they did that. Fight or flight both are wrong choices when dealing with police. Never in history has fighting with cops resulted in anything good happening. If it was the exact way you described it, all Pretti had to do was lay down, put his hands behind his back, let the cops know he has a gun, get arrested peacefully, then go win a million dollar lawsuit for excessive force which the government would have settled, not to mention the million he would have got from his gofundme page. He chose to fight and resist cops, which usually results in bad unintended things to happen. Those agents went there to legally arrest an illegal alien, not to rough up and shoot Pretti.

ShaggySLC said:

---

TexasAggie_97 said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Don't comment on a thread without reading the whole thing. This has been gone over multiple times. You believe simplified versions of events that are impossible in the moment. You believe everything can be known by everyone involved at the instant they happen. It's naive

ETA maybe It isn't in this thread, but it is in about 40 other threads on this topic. Read those

---

No, no I don't but I what I do believe is those agents went over to him and not the other way around. Hell the video clearly shows that but let's just say that's not what happened for the sake of this conversation. What I also believe is that these agents have been trained in proper de-escalation techniques as well as the use of non-lethal methods. You cannot claim he was resisting and deserved to be shot unless you also think he did not have the right to defend himself after being pepper sprayed, beaten in the head with a metal canister multiple times, kicked, punched, etc. It's called fight or flight and there is no way that he was able to flee since there were about 5 agents on him. Again hindsight is always 20/20 but come on man do you really think what happened was deserved? Watch the video and at least agree that mistakes were made and now one man is dead and several officers will have to deal with their actions for the rest of their lives. All they had to do was NOT engage because again I have not seen any evidence that he was pointing his gun at the officers but again if there is video please show it.

---

You can 100% claim resisting even after they did that. Fight or flight both are wrong choices when dealing with police. Never in history has fighting with cops resulted in anything good happening. If it was the exact way you described it, all Pretti had to do was lay down, put his hands behind his back, let the cops know he has a gun, get arrested peacefully, then go win a million dollar lawsuit for excessive force which the government would have settled, not to mention the million he would have got from his gofundme page. He chose to fight and resist cops, which usually results in bad unintended things to happen. Those agents went there to legal arrest an illegal alien, not to rough up and shot Pretti.

---

Democrats own this:

Exclusive | Minnesota cop union boss slams local officials for blocking cooperation with ICE: ‘There would have been no loss of life’ https://t.co/ERYvkRnZse pic.twitter.com/TbjxdrP310

— New York Post (@nypost) January 28, 2026

TexasAggie_97 said:

---

ShaggySLC said:

---

TexasAggie_97 said:

---

ShaggySLC said:

---

TexasAggie_97 said:

---

Decay said:

---

Pretti did nothing except you know physically resist arresr while carrying a weapon

Other than that, nothing!!

---

This was a very unfortunate situation for all involved. A video has been released showing agents yelling he's got a gun, he's got a gun. Then the same video shows the officers securing his gun and walking away with it meaning it is no longer a threat to the officers. The same video then shows 2 agents pull their guns and shoot the unarmed man while he is on the ground. At this point he was not a threat to the officers, and they should have taken him into custody. Pretti was legally licensed to carry his gun, and I have not seen any videos with him pointing it at any of the officers, so I am not sure why they took the actions that they did.

I would imagine that the pressure will be too great for this to be swept under the rug especially with the clear video showing what appears to be a bad shoot.

---

This has been gone over many times, yet you refuse to understand that these are flat out false. Prove the cops knew the gun was gone, and if he was still wrestling with them, he's 100% a threat. Without his ID and permit, he was not legally carrying, committing a felony with the gun is also not legally carrying. Why is that so hard for people like you to grasp? Liberals crying isn't pressure. If the cop got off clean in the Babbit and guy at the hotel cases, no chance this guy gets arrested. Terrible situation created completely by Pretti.

---

WTF are you talking about? This is the first time I have even commented on this and trust me I am the furthest thing from a liberal that you can be. I also don't just eat up whatever the government says, and I have this pesky habit of trusting my own eyes and then doing a bit of thinking on the issue after some time has passed because more info usually comes out. With that being said there is clear video of Pretti standing with his hands up showing he has nothing in his hands and then the agents rushing him, tackling him, spraying him with pepper spray, beating him, taking his gun and walking away with it and when he had the nerve to try and defend himself, he gets shot. Show me any video of him brandishing his gun and pointing it at ICE or even threatening to shoot them if they don't leave. So far, all that I have seen is them being pissed that people are making their lives difficult and they went across the street to him and instigated what happened.

Video, witnesses shed new light on moments before agents fatally shot Alex Pretti | CNN

Now if you have additional video that shows him threatening the agents then by all means please share it and I will happily admit it was a valid shoot.

---

Touchy, not once did I call you a liberal so why don't chill with the WTF. Not a great way to start but that's you when your first comment confirms you haven't read much about before commenting. So thinking he was resisting is trusting the government now? Really? I trust my eyes too, he was wrestling with the cops when he was shot, that i debatable. When he put his hands on an agent when they were getting the girl in white, he committed a felony. Whether he was showing the gun or not is irrelevant. There is clear video of him actively fighting with agents. Unfortunately there's a good chance you get hurt fighting with cops. Good shoot or bad shoot will be determined but Pretti is dead because he put himself in a position to get shot. Sure it looks ugly but that's the hard truth.

---

My mistake, perhaps I took your comments " Why is that so hard for people like you to grasp? Liberals crying isn't pressure" the wrong way. Again I would suggest you watch the video I linked which has several vantage points and from what I have seen ICE escalated the situation not the other way around. He had his hands up, and they tackled him, beat him, and then realized that he had a gun, took it from him and then shot him numerous times. Again to me it just seems like many mistakes were made and a person lost his life.

I never thought the officer that shot Good was in the wrong since she tried to run him over with a car but in this case Pretti did not have the gun anymore and was clearly being subdued by no less than 5 agents when 2 of them drew their guns and started firing.

Sadly I fear that some people are giddy that this happened and both sides will try to use it to their advantage. I guess you never let a good crisis go to waste right?

---

Where did I call you a liberal? The people like you comment was on the ones arguing about how it looks vs what the law actually is. He in no way needed to be shot but he also didn't need to be doing what he was doing that lead to quick decisions that ended his life. Both can be true. I don't know what will happen with the agent but I do know Pretti would be alive if he hadn't of made a serious of terrible choices. Shaver getting shot was a true injustice and that kill hungry cop walked. It's not giddy, its just people becoming Red Foreman and saying "dumbass" to these events.

ShaggySLC said:

---

TexasAggie_97 said:

---

ShaggySLC said:

---

TexasAggie_97 said:

---

ShaggySLC said:

---

TexasAggie_97 said:

---

Decay said:

---

Pretti did nothing except you know physically resist arresr while carrying a weapon

Other than that, nothing!!

---

This was a very unfortunate situation for all involved. A video has been released showing agents yelling he's got a gun, he's got a gun. Then the same video shows the officers securing his gun and walking away with it meaning it is no longer a threat to the officers. The same video then shows 2 agents pull their guns and shoot the unarmed man while he is on the ground. At this point he was not a threat to the officers, and they should have taken him into custody. Pretti was legally licensed to carry his gun, and I have not seen any videos with him pointing it at any of the officers, so I am not sure why they took the actions that they did.

I would imagine that the pressure will be too great for this to be swept under the rug especially with the clear video showing what appears to be a bad shoot.

---

This has been gone over many times, yet you refuse to understand that these are flat out false. Prove the cops knew the gun was gone, and if he was still wrestling with them, he's 100% a threat. Without his ID and permit, he was not legally carrying, committing a felony with the gun is also not legally carrying. Why is that so hard for people like you to grasp? Liberals crying isn't pressure. If the cop got off clean in the Babbit and guy at the hotel cases, no chance this guy gets arrested. Terrible situation created completely by Pretti.

---

WTF are you talking about? This is the first time I have even commented on this and trust me I am the furthest thing from a liberal that you can be. I also don't just eat up whatever the government says, and I have this pesky habit of trusting my own eyes and then doing a bit of thinking on the issue after some time has passed because more info usually comes out. With that being said there is clear video of Pretti standing with his hands up showing he has nothing in his hands and then the agents rushing him, tackling him, spraying him with pepper spray, beating him, taking his gun and walking away with it and when he had the nerve to try and defend himself, he gets shot. Show me any video of him brandishing his gun and pointing it at ICE or even threatening to shoot them if they don't leave. So far, all that I have seen is them being pissed that people are making their lives difficult and they went across the street to him and instigated what happened.

Video, witnesses shed new light on moments before agents fatally shot Alex Pretti | CNN

Now if you have additional video that shows him threatening the agents then by all means please share it and I will happily admit it was a valid shoot.

---

Touchy, not once did I call you a liberal so why don't chill with the WTF. Not a great way to start but that's you when your first comment confirms you haven't read much about before commenting. So thinking he was resisting is trusting the government now? Really? I trust my eyes too, he was wrestling with the cops when he was shot, that i debatable. When he put his hands on an agent when they were getting the girl in white, he committed a felony. Whether he was showing the gun or not is irrelevant. There is clear video of him actively fighting with agents. Unfortunately there's a good chance you get hurt fighting with cops. Good shoot or bad shoot will be determined but Pretti is dead because he put himself in a position to get shot. Sure it looks ugly but that's the hard truth.

---

My mistake, perhaps I took your comments " Why is that so hard for people like you to grasp? Liberals crying isn't pressure" the wrong way. Again I would suggest you watch the video I linked which has several vantage points and from what I have seen ICE escalated the situation not the other way around. He had his hands up, and they tackled him, beat him, and then realized that he had a gun, took it from him and then shot him numerous times. Again to me it just seems like many mistakes were made and a person lost his life.

I never thought the officer that shot Good was in the wrong since she tried to run him over with a car but in this case Pretti did not have the gun anymore and was clearly being subdued by no less than 5 agents when 2 of them drew their guns and started firing.

Sadly I fear that some people are giddy that this happened and both sides will try to use it to their advantage. I guess you never let a good crisis go to waste right?

---

Where did I call you a liberal? The people like you comment was on the ones arguing about how it looks vs what the law actually is. He in no way needed to be shot but he also didn't need to be doing what he was doing that lead to quick decisions that ended his life. Both can be true. I don't know what will happen with the agent but I do know Pretti would be alive if he hadn't of made a serious of terrible choices. Shaver getting shot was a true injustice and that kill hungry cop walked. It's not giddy, its just people becoming Red Foreman and saying "dumbass" to these events.

---

What can also be true is that its not up to you whether he needed to be shot. I think he did, you dont. Well either way it does not matter.


He died in a gutter trying to disrupt the deportations of illegals who have assaulted, raped, and murdered Americans. F HIM

ShaggySLC said:

---

TexasAggie_97 said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Don't comment on a thread without reading the whole thing. This has been gone over multiple times. You believe simplified versions of events that are impossible in the moment. You believe everything can be known by everyone involved at the instant they happen. It's naive

ETA maybe It isn't in this thread, but it is in about 40 other threads on this topic. Read those

---

No, no I don't but I what I do believe is those agents went over to him and not the other way around. Hell the video clearly shows that but let's just say that's not what happened for the sake of this conversation. What I also believe is that these agents have been trained in proper de-escalation techniques as well as the use of non-lethal methods. You cannot claim he was resisting and deserved to be shot unless you also think he did not have the right to defend himself after being pepper sprayed, beaten in the head with a metal canister multiple times, kicked, punched, etc. It's called fight or flight and there is no way that he was able to flee since there were about 5 agents on him. Again hindsight is always 20/20 but come on man do you really think what happened was deserved? Watch the video and at least agree that mistakes were made and now one man is dead and several officers will have to deal with their actions for the rest of their lives. All they had to do was NOT engage because again I have not seen any evidence that he was pointing his gun at the officers but again if there is video please show it.

---

You can 100% claim resisting even after they did that. Fight or flight both are wrong choices when dealing with police. Never in history has fighting with cops resulted in anything good happening. If it was the exact way you described it, all Pretti had to do was lay down, put his hands behind his back, let the cops know he has a gun, get arrested peacefully, then go win a million dollar lawsuit for excessive force which the government would have settled, not to mention the million he would have got from his gofundme page. He chose to fight and resist cops, which usually results in bad unintended things to happen. Those agents went there to legal arrest an illegal alien, not to rough up and shot Pretti.

---

We could go back and forth on this ad nauseum, and I will admit that I am not a law enforcement officer, but I am pretty sure that they have extensive training for situations like this. Below is an experts opinion take it or leave it but I guess we will just have to agree to disagree with what happened. I respect your opinion even if I don't fully agree with all of your comments.

But policing experts interviewed questioned whether the use of force was legitimate pointing to the hail of bullets once Pretti was already prone on the ground, and noting that Pretti did not seem to actively threaten agents.

Brian Higgins, an adjunct professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a retired police chief, noted that "there are a lot of questions that have to be answered" about the shooting, including how Pretti's firearm may have influenced officers' perception of the situation.

Still, "this individual didn't appear to me to even have his hand on the firearm at any time," Higgins said. "So really, there's no threat. He's just carrying it."

Quote:

---

Again hindsight is always 20/20 but come on man do you really think what happened was deserved? Watch the video and at least agree that mistakes were made and now one man is dead and several officers will have to deal with their actions for the rest of their lives. All they had to do was NOT engage because again I have not seen any evidence that he was pointing his gun at the officers but again if there is video please show it.

---

Really dislike when that is part of the discussion as it is not only hindsight, it has a virtue signaling connotation. From a legal analysis, completely irrelevant.

But for LEOs there is a continuum of force escalation that is supposed to be proportionate to the level of threat being presented to officers. And that works both ways. De-escalation and escalation. The use of the OC spray is non-lethal.

And the spray seemed to either miss him or have little effect as the struggle continued. None of the officers had pulled their service weapons...UNTIL his jacket was raised revealing his holstered gun. Threat level is immediately escalated at that point to lethality being present. (Side note: Officers do get shot with their own weapons quite frequently so an unsecured weapon in such a situation is forefront in their minds.)

When officers see the gun and yell out, "GUN! GUN! GUN!" followed a milisecond later with a BANG (very loud to those that close and engaged with Pretti)

Which is one of the reasons I want to wait o read the autopsy report and ballistics report. That first shot? Where from? Did it even hit Pretti? I think not but those reports could help shed some light on that.

But back to the moment the gun is revealed and officers alert other officers to its presence, Pretti could have then de-escalated by going limp with empty hands out front of him. But the shot rang out so fast after the discovery of his gun, he didn't have time to react.

It would be tragic if the first shot was a misfire and completely unintentional, truly but that doesn't change the use of force analysis.

Im sure F16 will change its tune in coming days.
From:
"Totally justified, FAFO!"
To:
"The feds arent perfect, accidents happen"

Some of us looked at this objectively and were disappointed in the knee jerk GOP response to blame legal carry. Others just jumped on the bandwagon FAFO echo chamber.

1981 Monte Carlo said:

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theJonatron said:

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I thought this was a wild take but then I watched every single video. This is a really dumb take.

The deceased that led to national outrage was in turtle position not moving, surrounded by federal officers. The others did not obey commands and acted shady as hell.

It's not that hard to understand.

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He just laid peacefully in turtle position and never tried to fight or get up? Maybe the videos I watched were all doctored?

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You forgot "And the Agent, for no reason, just decided to shoot him".

TexasAggie_97 said:

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ShaggySLC said:

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TexasAggie_97 said:

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Phatbob said:

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Don't comment on a thread without reading the whole thing. This has been gone over multiple times. You believe simplified versions of events that are impossible in the moment. You believe everything can be known by everyone involved at the instant they happen. It's naive

ETA maybe It isn't in this thread, but it is in about 40 other threads on this topic. Read those

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No, no I don't but I what I do believe is those agents went over to him and not the other way around. Hell the video clearly shows that but let's just say that's not what happened for the sake of this conversation. What I also believe is that these agents have been trained in proper de-escalation techniques as well as the use of non-lethal methods. You cannot claim he was resisting and deserved to be shot unless you also think he did not have the right to defend himself after being pepper sprayed, beaten in the head with a metal canister multiple times, kicked, punched, etc. It's called fight or flight and there is no way that he was able to flee since there were about 5 agents on him. Again hindsight is always 20/20 but come on man do you really think what happened was deserved? Watch the video and at least agree that mistakes were made and now one man is dead and several officers will have to deal with their actions for the rest of their lives. All they had to do was NOT engage because again I have not seen any evidence that he was pointing his gun at the officers but again if there is video please show it.

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You can 100% claim resisting even after they did that. Fight or flight both are wrong choices when dealing with police. Never in history has fighting with cops resulted in anything good happening. If it was the exact way you described it, all Pretti had to do was lay down, put his hands behind his back, let the cops know he has a gun, get arrested peacefully, then go win a million dollar lawsuit for excessive force which the government would have settled, not to mention the million he would have got from his gofundme page. He chose to fight and resist cops, which usually results in bad unintended things to happen. Those agents went there to legal arrest an illegal alien, not to rough up and shot Pretti.

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We could go back and forth on this ad nauseum, and I will admit that I am not a law enforcement officer, but I am pretty sure that they have extensive training for situations like this. Below is an experts opinion take it or leave it but I guess we will just have to agree to disagree with what happened. I respect your opinion even if I don't fully agree with all of your comments.

But policing experts interviewed questioned whether the use of force was legitimate pointing to the hail of bullets once Pretti was already prone on the ground, and noting that Pretti did not seem to actively threaten agents.

Brian Higgins, an adjunct professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a retired police chief, noted that "there are a lot of questions that have to be answered" about the shooting, including how Pretti's firearm may have influenced officers' perception of the situation.

Still, "this individual didn't appear to me to even have his hand on the firearm at any time," Higgins said. "So really, there's no threat. He's just carrying it."

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IMO the accidental discharge of Pretti's gun, not confirmed but I think his went off when the agent was turning away to run with it, is what started the barrage of shots. Does it look bad, no doubt, but once the shooting starts 10 rounds is probably fewer then normal no matter the position he is in. I still believe the bottom line is, none of that happens if Pretti doesn't insert himself in the entire situation. The cops were there to do a legal arrest. Pretti would be at home right now with a bag of cash if he just had stopped resisting and put his hands behind his back.

samurai_science said:

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ShaggySLC said:

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TexasAggie_97 said:

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ShaggySLC said:

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TexasAggie_97 said:

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ShaggySLC said:

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TexasAggie_97 said:

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Decay said:

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Pretti did nothing except you know physically resist arresr while carrying a weapon

Other than that, nothing!!

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This was a very unfortunate situation for all involved. A video has been released showing agents yelling he's got a gun, he's got a gun. Then the same video shows the officers securing his gun and walking away with it meaning it is no longer a threat to the officers. The same video then shows 2 agents pull their guns and shoot the unarmed man while he is on the ground. At this point he was not a threat to the officers, and they should have taken him into custody. Pretti was legally licensed to carry his gun, and I have not seen any videos with him pointing it at any of the officers, so I am not sure why they took the actions that they did.

I would imagine that the pressure will be too great for this to be swept under the rug especially with the clear video showing what appears to be a bad shoot.

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This has been gone over many times, yet you refuse to understand that these are flat out false. Prove the cops knew the gun was gone, and if he was still wrestling with them, he's 100% a threat. Without his ID and permit, he was not legally carrying, committing a felony with the gun is also not legally carrying. Why is that so hard for people like you to grasp? Liberals crying isn't pressure. If the cop got off clean in the Babbit and guy at the hotel cases, no chance this guy gets arrested. Terrible situation created completely by Pretti.

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WTF are you talking about? This is the first time I have even commented on this and trust me I am the furthest thing from a liberal that you can be. I also don't just eat up whatever the government says, and I have this pesky habit of trusting my own eyes and then doing a bit of thinking on the issue after some time has passed because more info usually comes out. With that being said there is clear video of Pretti standing with his hands up showing he has nothing in his hands and then the agents rushing him, tackling him, spraying him with pepper spray, beating him, taking his gun and walking away with it and when he had the nerve to try and defend himself, he gets shot. Show me any video of him brandishing his gun and pointing it at ICE or even threatening to shoot them if they don't leave. So far, all that I have seen is them being pissed that people are making their lives difficult and they went across the street to him and instigated what happened.

Video, witnesses shed new light on moments before agents fatally shot Alex Pretti | CNN

Now if you have additional video that shows him threatening the agents then by all means please share it and I will happily admit it was a valid shoot.

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Touchy, not once did I call you a liberal so why don't chill with the WTF. Not a great way to start but that's you when your first comment confirms you haven't read much about before commenting. So thinking he was resisting is trusting the government now? Really? I trust my eyes too, he was wrestling with the cops when he was shot, that i debatable. When he put his hands on an agent when they were getting the girl in white, he committed a felony. Whether he was showing the gun or not is irrelevant. There is clear video of him actively fighting with agents. Unfortunately there's a good chance you get hurt fighting with cops. Good shoot or bad shoot will be determined but Pretti is dead because he put himself in a position to get shot. Sure it looks ugly but that's the hard truth.

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My mistake, perhaps I took your comments " Why is that so hard for people like you to grasp? Liberals crying isn't pressure" the wrong way. Again I would suggest you watch the video I linked which has several vantage points and from what I have seen ICE escalated the situation not the other way around. He had his hands up, and they tackled him, beat him, and then realized that he had a gun, took it from him and then shot him numerous times. Again to me it just seems like many mistakes were made and a person lost his life.

I never thought the officer that shot Good was in the wrong since she tried to run him over with a car but in this case Pretti did not have the gun anymore and was clearly being subdued by no less than 5 agents when 2 of them drew their guns and started firing.

Sadly I fear that some people are giddy that this happened and both sides will try to use it to their advantage. I guess you never let a good crisis go to waste right?

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Where did I call you a liberal? The people like you comment was on the ones arguing about how it looks vs what the law actually is. He in no way needed to be shot but he also didn't need to be doing what he was doing that lead to quick decisions that ended his life. Both can be true. I don't know what will happen with the agent but I do know Pretti would be alive if he hadn't of made a serious of terrible choices. Shaver getting shot was a true injustice and that kill hungry cop walked. It's not giddy, its just people becoming Red Foreman and saying "dumbass" to these events.

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What can also be true is that its not up to you whether he needed to be shot. I think he did, you dont. Well either way it does not matter.


He died in a gutter trying to disrupt the deportations of illegals who have assaulted, raped, and murdered Americans. F HIM

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Should have said in hindsight, in the moment, I can completely understand why they did.

Finding out justified accident.

Only Bozo would think carrying a gun, committing a felony, then resisting arrest will be totally safe with zero risk.

Maybe should be Bozos think since this is F16.

Here's an interesting thought project. The most quoted SCOTUS decision on LEO use of force is Graham v. Conner. Note the style of the case as that denotes it was actually a civil case and not a criminal case. Nonetheless it is used in criminal trials as well.

Why? Because cities and states don't want to be sued in civil court so they all incorporate the Graham factors and language in their official training manuals, that's why.

TexasAggie_97 said:

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Decay said:

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Pretti did nothing except you know physically resist arresr while carrying a weapon

Other than that, nothing!!

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This was a very unfortunate situation for all involved. A video has been released showing agents yelling he's got a gun, he's got a gun. Then the same video shows the officers securing his gun and walking away with it meaning it is no longer a threat to the officers. The same video then shows 2 agents pull their guns and shoot the unarmed man while he is on the ground. At this point he was not a threat to the officers, and they should have taken him into custody. Pretti was legally licensed to carry his gun, and I have not seen any videos with him pointing it at any of the officers, so I am not sure why they took the actions that they did.

I would imagine that the pressure will be too great for this to be swept under the rug especially with the clear video showing what appears to be a bad shoot.

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This is a high octane, chaotic, fast moving, adrenaline dumping situation...you're almost expecting them to be superhuman here. Psychic even. Maybe the guy who retrieved the gun was not heard when he announced confiscation (if he did announce it) and then other officers thought he still had it a half second later. They clearly thought he was still armed and dangerous.

Is your argument really that they knew the gun had been taken off of him and that they shot him for funsies because it's just a blast to shoot someone as a police officer in a blue state and face trial?

Even if this is just an unfortunate accident from a police perspective...the MF'er was fighting with officers with a gun on him. Do you know how easy it is to NOT be killed by cops? YOU HAVE TO TRY TO DO IT.

B-1 83 said:

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1981 Monte Carlo said:

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theJonatron said:

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I thought this was a wild take but then I watched every single video. This is a really dumb take.

The deceased that led to national outrage was in turtle position not moving, surrounded by federal officers. The others did not obey commands and acted shady as hell.

It's not that hard to understand.

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He just laid peacefully in turtle position and never tried to fight or get up? Maybe the videos I watched were all doctored?

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You forgot "And the Agent, for no reason, just decided to shoot him".

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Educated, rich soccer moms on my feed talking about ICE "executing" Pretty and Renee Good. And how we should all feel unsafe now. I am ganuinely troubled by how stupid and impressionable the avergae person is becoming.

Quote:

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IMO the accidental discharge of Pretti's gun, not confirmed but I think his went off when the agent was turning away to run with it, is what started the barrage of shots. Does it look bad, no doubt, but once the shooting starts 10 rounds is probably fewer then normal no matter the position he is in.

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As the officers were rapidly backing away from him. Getting away from the perceived threat and attempting to keep their fellow officers out of the line of fire or cross fire.

Why is that important? Because they are were perceiving the same thing. And that reinforces the "objective reasonable officer" standard.

TexasAggie_97 said:

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My mistake, perhaps I took your comments " Why is that so hard for people like you to grasp? Liberals crying isn't pressure" the wrong way. Again I would suggest you watch the video I linked which has several vantage points and from what I have seen ICE escalated the situation not the other way around. He had his hands up, and they tackled him, beat him, and then realized that he had a gun, took it from him and then shot him numerous times. Again to me it just seems like many mistakes were made and a person lost his life.

I never thought the officer that shot Good was in the wrong since she tried to run him over with a car but in this case Pretti did not have the gun anymore and was clearly being subdued by no less than 5 agents when 2 of them drew their guns and started firing.

Sadly I fear that some people are giddy that this happened and both sides will try to use it to their advantage. I guess you never let a good crisis go to waste right?

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You should probably read the case law that decides this. Right now, your comments are ignorant as to the law and ignorant as to human performance. That is a common occurrence on F16 though, on both sides.

Pinochet said:

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Can we start pointing at the MN dip**** when people say black people are more likely to get shot by cops?

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ICE aren't cops. /libiots

Sh****SLC said:

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TexasAggie_97 said:

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Decay said:

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Pretti did nothing except you know physically resist arresr while carrying a weapon

Other than that, nothing!!

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This was a very unfortunate situation for all involved. A video has been released showing agents yelling he's got a gun, he's got a gun. Then the same video shows the officers securing his gun and walking away with it meaning it is no longer a threat to the officers. The same video then shows 2 agents pull their guns and shoot the unarmed man while he is on the ground. At this point he was not a threat to the officers, and they should have taken him into custody. Pretti was legally licensed to carry his gun, and I have not seen any videos with him pointing it at any of the officers, so I am not sure why they took the actions that they did.

I would imagine that the pressure will be too great for this to be swept under the rug especially with the clear video showing what appears to be a bad shoot.

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This has been gone over many times, yet you refuse to understand that these are flat out false. Prove the cops knew the gun was gone, and if he was still wrestling with them, he's 100% a threat. Without his ID and permit, he was not legally carrying, committing a felony with the gun is also not legally carrying. Why is that so hard for people like you to grasp? Liberals crying isn't pressure. If the cop got off clean in the Babbit and guy at the hotel cases, no chance this guy gets arrested. Terrible situation created completely by Pretti.

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Like it or not those agents will be cleared based on this:

Graham v. Connor (1989) is a landmark Supreme Court case that established the "objective reasonableness" standard for evaluating police use-of-force claims, ruling that such claims must be analyzed under the Fourth Amendment's protection against unreasonable seizures, not a subjective "good faith" test. The Court held that the reasonableness of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, considering the severity of the crime, the suspect's threat level, and whether they are resisting arrest, without the benefit of hindsight.

Same with all the agents in the videos posted by OP.

It's really EASY to be couch QB and pick apart any of these terrible situations, but at the end of the day LEO's have split seconds to clap or get clapped. I'll take the former.

Also, here is some additional sound advice:


The solution to the problem is very obvious and as simple as 1-2-3.

1) Avoid exhibiting criminal behavior that is likely to result in a law enforcement encounter.

2) Failing that, immediately discontinue criminal behavior once you encounter law enforcement.

3) Once encountered, immediately and fully comply with law enforcement.

If you simply follow those three rules, you'll likely never even meet a police officer much less be shot by one.

If Pretti is at the bottom of the steps of the Capitol building with a protest sign asking Congress to change immigration laws he would still be alive today. If he was outside of this local congressman's office, he would still be alive today. If he was on any random corner bringing the issue to the attention of passersby he would still be alive today.

That is my starting and ending point on all debates on this subject. The shoot could be good or bad. That doesn't matter to me. The man chose to show up to an active law enforcement operation. I don't have to ask any of my friends who have been in law enforcement because I've heard enough of their stories over the years of what it's like when they are part of an operation to apprehend a suspect. If you insert some group of protesting people wanting to block or thwart your operation, that's not a good situation.

It is absolutely absurd to me that anyone is defending people's right to organize a law enforcement COUNTER-Operation as a form of protest. That is not what the constitution is protecting. It's not. And to the extent that a state and municipality is withholding cooperating local Leo's for operations, that needs to be investigated to the extent there are long standing cooperative agreements and financial support in order to prevent these exact scenarios from happening. Good shoots or bad shoots. Public safety has taken a back seat here and it largely rests on the shoulders of the governor of MN and mayor of Minneapolis, who are both trying to score political points with those that want no immigrations laws to exist much less enforcement of those laws.

It is almost as if the protestors want to get hurt... I wonder why.

GeorgiAg said:

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God, can you imagine if Pretti & Good were black? It'd be fentanyl Floyd all over again.

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Put their 3 dumb faces on the side of Mt Dumbass to honor their stupidity for all time.