If the article is correct, and it might not be, but if he FORCED his way into someone else's house and was armed (assuming it was his weapon), I would have a hard time convicting the shooter if I was on a jury.

HTownAg98 said:

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Multiple shots in the back or shot execution style after he was "dead" is what I'm thinking.

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You can't murder someone who is already dead.

one safe place said:

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If the article is correct, and it might not be, but if he FORCED his way into someone else's house and was armed (assuming it was his weapon), I would have a hard time convicting the shooter if I was on a jury.

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Since we have few facts, I'll just make them up. She was banging the dead guy. Shooter came home and found them, beat the **** out of him and threw him outside naked. They also threw him a frying pan to cover himself. Naked guy kicked the door in and got shot as he entered. Shooter and his cheating wife forgot there was a doorbell camera and tried to make up a story.

I just want to see the documents they used to get the warrant. Who can pull that?

Pinochet said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Multiple shots in the back or shot execution style after he was "dead" is what I'm thinking.

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You can't murder someone who is already dead.

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abuse of a corpse.

91AggieLawyer said:

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Principal Uncertainty said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Multiple shots in the back or shot execution style after he was "dead" is what I'm thinking.

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This is a good guess.

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Without eyewitness testimony that this happened, they likely won't get a conviction. A good defense attorney can raise all sorts of reasonable doubt scenarios just with cross examination of officers/investigators.

This isn't an old west TV show: shooting someone in the back, regardless of where it is on the body, doesn't necessarily imply murder -- or even a criminal act. Could be the guy had already lawyered up and isn't talking. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) murder in Texas is still intentionally or knowingly. Firing too many shots isn't going to reach that standard. Even if someone is on the floor, if they have access to their weapon, they haven't been "stopped."

I'm going to have a next to impossible time as a juror convicting ANYONE who shoots someone who has broken into the shooter's house. I can not envision any scenario where I would convict anyone in that situation of murder and likely no crime at all. This is the top of the food chain of FAFO.

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My brother's store was being robbed, he saw it happening on his security cameras. The guy was threatening one of his cashiers with a knife. His house was right behind the store, he ran out to the corner of the store, guessed wrong as to which way the robber would run. Steps out and the guy was probably 60 feet from him, running away. Shot him in the back, twice, but didn't kill him. Did go before the grand jury but was no billed (or whatever the term is). For a few weeks after it happened, several city cops, sheriff's deputies, highway patrolmen, and a game warden came by and gave my brother those five packs of slugs or buckshot.

Pinochet said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Multiple shots in the back or shot execution style after he was "dead" is what I'm thinking.

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You can't murder someone who is already dead.

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But you can lose a perfect self defense claim for justification for the homicide.

aggiehawg said:

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Pinochet said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Multiple shots in the back or shot execution style after he was "dead" is what I'm thinking.

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You can't murder someone who is already dead.

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But you can lose a perfect self defense claim for justification for the homicide.

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Wasn't arguing that. Just pointing out that HTown's made up story isn't as good as my made up story because his cannot be true.

Double tap

Second shot may have been a coup de grce

Sorry since I misunderstood. Apologies.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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My guess… It was his own home and the guy who shot him was banging his girl.

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Case just like this in Kosse Texas and no charges were filed.

CDUB98 said:

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Quote:

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Someone breaks into your home, shoot to kill and that means more than one bullet.

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Wrong.

You shoot until the threat is eliminated and you believe yourself safe.

Very important distinction.

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And, tell the cops nothing other than you feared for your life and safety of your family. Say very little; unless, you got a lawyer present guiding you.

BlueMiles said:

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Maybe shot him outside and dragged him in…

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Probably this...

I was also thinking maybe pissed off landlord trying to kick the renters out and renter shot him and tried to say he broke in?

FobTies said:

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A few years ago Houston PD lied to obtain a no knock warrant off Harding St. The cops broke in killed a man, his wife, and their dog. The main cop was black, and the victims were white. Ask any liberal if they heard of this, or Daniel Shaver getting gunned down by Mesa PD at his hotel room. These 2 incidents are 100x worse than Brianna Taylor and George Floyd, yet hardly anyone has heard of these victims, or their police intruders.

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I live South of Houston and work downtown.

Never heard this story. Wow!

Officer Gerald Goines was found guilty of felony murder for the deaths of Tuttle and Nicholas. He was sentenced to 60 years in prison, effectively a life sentence given his age. The case has led to broader scrutiny of police practices and the handling of similar cases in Houston, with over 160 cases linked to Goines being dismissed due to his misconduct.

Seems likely to me that the shooter and the deceased may have known each other prior to the incident. Two things come to mind: (1) domestic dispute; or (2) drug deal.

Im Gipper said:

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usmcbrooks said:

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I'm going to need a lawyer to explain how the Castle Doctrine doesn't apply in this case.

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First, we are going to know the actual facts of what occurred.

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Yep has to be more to the story. The police should tell the public why though ASAP.

Shooter and decease were known to each other and no forced entry

Are you just guessing? The story says there was forced entry.

Maybe unforced entry made to look like a forced entry after the fact?

txaggie_08 said:

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Are you just guessing? The story says there was forced entry.

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And the press release from the police says:

Quote:

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Officers were advised that a gunshot victim within Florez' residence identified as, Phillip Samuel Lozano Jr., W/M, 36 years of age, had allegedly forced his way into the residence while being armed and was subsequently shot by Florez within the residence.

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Gilligan said:

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FobTies said:

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A few years ago Houston PD lied to obtain a no knock warrant off Harding St. The cops broke in killed a man, his wife, and their dog. The main cop was black, and the victims were white. Ask any liberal if they heard of this, or Daniel Shaver getting gunned down by Mesa PD at his hotel room. These 2 incidents are 100x worse than Brianna Taylor and George Floyd, yet hardly anyone has heard of these victims, or their police intruders.

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I live South of Houston and work downtown.

Never heard this story. Wow!

Officer Gerald Goines was found guilty of felony murder for the deaths of Tuttle and Nicholas. He was sentenced to 60 years in prison, effectively a life sentence given his age. The case has led to broader scrutiny of police practices and the handling of similar cases in Houston, with over 160 cases linked to Goines being dismissed due to his misconduct.

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It was big on here when it happened because 5 cops got shot.

https://texags.com/forums/38/topics/3017764/1#discussion

There are some posts there that aged like a diaper in a hot car. Definitely worth a read.

Ol_Ag_02 said:

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My guess… It was his own home and the guy who shot him was banging his girl.

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Some of America's finest folks.

Sounds like the news is just running with the details they were given by law enforcement. I wonder why LE would release just enough info to make it sound controversial?

Gilligan said:

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FobTies said:

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A few years ago Houston PD lied to obtain a no knock warrant off Harding St. The cops broke in killed a man, his wife, and their dog. The main cop was black, and the victims were white. Ask any liberal if they heard of this, or Daniel Shaver getting gunned down by Mesa PD at his hotel room. These 2 incidents are 100x worse than Brianna Taylor and George Floyd, yet hardly anyone has heard of these victims, or their police intruders.

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I live South of Houston and work downtown.

Never heard this story. Wow!

Officer Gerald Goines was found guilty of felony murder for the deaths of Tuttle and Nicholas. He was sentenced to 60 years in prison, effectively a life sentence given his age. The case has led to broader scrutiny of police practices and the handling of similar cases in Houston, with over 160 cases linked to Goines being dismissed due to his misconduct.

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Yeah, the Harding Street raid and its aftermath were widely reported on and definitely not kept quiet.

CDUB98 said:

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Quote:

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Someone breaks into your home, shoot to kill and that means more than one bullet.

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Wrong.

You shoot until the threat is eliminated and you believe yourself safe.

Very important distinction.

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....which means when the perp is no longer moving, incapable of moving and thus incapable of doing any further harm.

Which means he has been well ventilated because I'm not a fuggin EMS, operator or any other type of person that is qualified to determine when the perp is 100% neutralized and no longer poses a threat.

Which is also why I'll 100% never be selected for a jury in a case like this. Because as long as the perp is breathing, they are a threat IMO. Getting your head canoed after taking several rounds to the chest is just a hazard of the job if you are willing to break into somebody's house IMO. Sucks to suck.

aggiehawg said:

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Slicer97 said:

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AozorAg said:

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to hazardThere is undoubtedly more to the story not reported yet. Otherwise, this is open and shut justified self defense.

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Yep. Without additional details, it's hard to even speculate as to what happened. Could be something like what waitwhat? suggested. It could be evidence that the homeowner continued to shoot after the intruder was no longer a threat, but I have no idea how police would determine that without witness testimony or video evidence.

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Were I to hazard a guess without more facts, it would be an imperfect self defense wherein the shooter somehow was an instigator/original aggressor and failed to adequately disengage clearly enough to reestablish the innocence element of self defense.

To be clear, one can be the original instigator but has to meaningfully and obviously disengage in order to reestablish that innocence factor.

ETA: Or too many shots. Self defense for maybe the first shot but then continued shooting after the threat was neutralized.

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Incorrect. There is nothing that states I have only1 shot for self defense, even if the perp is hit.

Rapier108 said:

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Multiple gunshot wounds alone wouldn't be enough for any kind of charge.

Someone breaks into your home, shoot to kill and that means more than one bullet.

Now, if he was on the ground, injured but alive, and was then shot execution style, that would draw a murder charge for sure.

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That depends on a lot of factors. If he still has a weapon and is capable of using it, even if injured, the threat still remains.

A lot of variables in a situation like this.

Quote:

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Incorrect. There is nothing that states I have only1 shot for self defense, even if the perp is hit.

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Not what I said at all.

Pinochet said:

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one safe place said:

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If the article is correct, and it might not be, but if he FORCED his way into someone else's house and was armed (assuming it was his weapon), I would have a hard time convicting the shooter if I was on a jury.

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Since we have few facts, I'll just make them up. She was banging the dead guy. Shooter came home and found them, beat the **** out of him and threw him outside naked. They also threw him a frying pan to cover himself. Naked guy kicked the door in and got shot as he entered. Shooter and his cheating wife forgot there was a doorbell camera and tried to make up a story.

I just want to see the documents they used to get the warrant. Who can pull that?

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Since we are making up facts. I will go with.....

He was not an armed intruder at all but an invited guest. Argument happens. Killing happens. The homeowners fake the 'forced entry' trying to make it look like a burglary. But when the cops seperated the man and the woman their stories didn't add up.

Figure that's as good of a guess as any.

schmellba99 said:

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CDUB98 said:

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Quote:

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Someone breaks into your home, shoot to kill and that means more than one bullet.

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Wrong.

You shoot until the threat is eliminated and you believe yourself safe.

Very important distinction.

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....which means when the perp is no longer moving, incapable of moving and thus incapable of doing any further harm.

Which means he has been well ventilated because I'm not a fuggin EMS, operator or any other type of person that is qualified to determine when the perp is 100% neutralized and no longer poses a threat.

Which is also why I'll 100% never be selected for a jury in a case like this. Because as long as the perp is breathing, they are a threat IMO. Getting your head canoed after taking several rounds to the chest is just a hazard of the job if you are willing to break into somebody's house IMO. Sucks to suck.

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If you reasonably incapacitate someone, have taken their weapon, and they are lying on your floor bleeding out, and then you dome them, it's gonna look a lot like murder, not self-defense.

txaggie_08 said:

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Are you just guessing? The story says there was forced entry.

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'Alleged"

schmellba99 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Multiple gunshot wounds alone wouldn't be enough for any kind of charge.

Someone breaks into your home, shoot to kill and that means more than one bullet.

Now, if he was on the ground, injured but alive, and was then shot execution style, that would draw a murder charge for sure.

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That depends on a lot of factors. If he still has a weapon and is capable of using it, even if injured, the threat still remains.

A lot of variables in a situation like this.

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Goes to the imminence element of the threat as required for a successful self defense claim. Timing matters.