halfastros81 said:

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Many of us understand the math. The answer isn't to not take your benefits because they'll just be wasted by the government. Change the rules , reduce the payments , extend the age to get benefits , put a ring fence around social security … change it to make it solvent for future generations . I'm fine with that . I'm not good with just continuing to kick the can down the road but again I have no say . Alternatively, end it but you can't make a promise to people that are at or near retirement and counting on it . I'll admit I never planned on seeing a dime of it and I saved accordingly but I won't forgo the benefits because it's just an invitation for more government waste . I prefer to use it for Medicare premiums that are way more than I planned for and also give it to charities where it can go towards issues I believe are important rather than what the US Guv deems important . Supporting ignored veterans via private and more efficient orgs being one of those issues.

---

Everything you said sounds nice in theory but by the time those things could even happen the deficit will be $100 trillion.

You'll be gone so it won't matter to you but I assume your offspring will still be around.

All of you people saying "boomers don't understand the trouble we're in" are fooling yourselves.

As I said earlier, we've known for decades that SS was upside down. I remember being in my 40s and laughing that I would never see a penny. It's been a political hot potato for ever. "Lock box" and all that.

I don't know of any older person who believes they deposited money into an account and are getting those same dollars back.

So you can stop with the holier-than-thou "if you were just as smart and knowledgeable as us" stuff. That's just another lie you tell yourselves.

We understand perfectly well. We also understand we can't fix the mess with a few hollow bulletin board pronouncements and appeals to our congressman.

"The sacrifice younger generations will have to make is taking in aging parents, on top of foregoing SS. It's not an either or thing."

So the issue becomes less a matter "civic virtue" than individual "moral responsibility?"

Tom Fox said:

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You cannot have the top 1% paying for 50% of net income taxes and the bottom half paying net zero but yet still getting a vote on spending. We have a representation without income taxation problem reaching critical mass.

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If you add up income taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, sales and consumption taxes,… we are already there.

If you run the numbers on government spending per capita, I'm already paying for literally dozens and dozens of free loading bums and that number is going up every year. We are importing them now because the domestic bums are not reproducing fast enough for the likes of the pols. And these same worthless bums just keep voting for more of my money.

I don't know if it will be bullets or crypto currency movements or paid golden visa type immigration, but the market will come up with solutions to the unsustainable trend happening.

I can't predict the future but the odds say yes … my 2 offspring will probably be around and they will probably have offspring as well before I leave earth.

Not being snarky here , legit question and I'll admit I didn't go back and read thru the entire thread . What do you propose ?

AJ02 said:

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EclipseAg said:

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So the solution to fixing Social Security is to have some old people voluntarily send back their checks and then move in with their kids while voting for non-existent politicians who are running on dismantling the program?

---

Hell no my parents aren't moving in with me!!! They barely took care of me growing up, so no way am I taking care of them when they're crotchety old farts who wear diapers.

---

I think we may have found the motivation behind a lot of this rhetoric.

You all hate your parents.

Makes sense now.

halfastros81 said:

---

I can't predict the future but the odds say yes … my 2 offspring will probably be around and they will probably have offspring as well before I leave earth.

Not being snarky here , legit question and I'll admit I didn't go back and read thru the entire thread . What do you propose ?

---

I think the proposal is that you don't get anything and 'take one for the team'.

If he is class of 81, he will see the 100 trillion debt mark…and average home prices of 1.8 million…and 250,000 avg car price…and the 2,000 monthly electric bill…and the $40 Whataburger

"That's before I inherit (I'm currently taking care of a parent who has dementia and I've been growing their assets despite depleting them at a higher rate for care)."

Your inheritance is an entitlement - you didnt earn it. If you truly believe what you are espousing, you will give up the inheritance and donate it to SS. But you won't because you believe that is your despite the fact that you did nothing to earn it.

You can pitch all the proposals you want, but it's clear what will happen. If you've been responsible and saved for your own retirement, you will punished and forced to pay for those who were irresponsible. Probably through new taxes on all retirement accounts

sam callahan said:

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The problem with kicking the can down the road is that eventually you run out of road.

We have been kicking that can a long time . This thread is testimony as to why.

I want at least some of money out of the system, too, but I've known since my early 20s it wouldn't be there.

---

What difference does it make if the money is "there"? We are 40 trillion in debt. The money is not there for every single dollar the government spends. There is no "system". There is no "lock box".

The budget can be balanced and SS and Medicare can continue in some form or be phased into privatization, but whether the money is "there" or not seems irrelevant. What is needed is a balanced budget and an amendment or law that forces it to stay in balance or surplus. You can't stop SS and Medicare cold turkey anymore than you can fire the military, or cut every government agency by 50%. And we don't have to, but we do need to get a majority support of balancing the budget by reducing spending increases, eliminating fraud and frivolous spending, and most importantly, promoting growth, which is what I believe Trump has decided to do first, along with cutting fraudulent spending. Nothing happens without the growth as a starting point.

My mother had Alzheimer's and she lived the last 2 yrs of her life with us . Didn't hate her at all . Loved her . We hired help for daylight hours so I could work and my wife could also have a part time working life and manage the household because we simply felt like her life quality would be better around loved ones than in a nursing home. I strongly believe that was true and I wouldn't change a thing about the way we handled it.

Her combined SS income and a pension from my deceased Dad covered it for the most part but we'd have done it the same without it. You take care of your family unless you have damned good reasons not to imo.

halfastros81 said:

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I can't predict the future but the odds say yes … my 2 offspring will probably be around and they will probably have offspring as well before I leave earth.

Not being snarky here , legit question and I'll admit I didn't go back and read thru the entire thread . What do you propose ?

---

Everyone younger than 55 gets nothing. Close it down. End SNAP, Medicaid, TANF, WIC, Section 8, and every other needs based entitlement.

I would keep Medicare because the government intrusion has F!cked the health insurance system. But eventually phase it out as well.

Pay off the deficit then cut taxes starting with the highest tax payers first.

UntoldSpirit said:

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Haven't read all of this thread, so I apologize if this is repeated or already off target.

Why are social security and medicare being singled out here? We are tens of trillions in debt. We don't have the money for ANYTHING. No need to separate out SS & Med, and then use it for generational blame.

---

Because those two programs combined constitute 1/3 of all federal government spending. More than we spend on defense.

So everyone under 55 gets nothing for what has been taken from them at gunpoint or is there some plan for that as well? I can see phasing it out but that seems like a pretty draconian measure because they don't have enough time to plan for recovery . I could see 40 , maybe 45.

I can't say I disagree with any of the rest of it .

I understand the numbers look bad and knowing some of your posting history I don't doubt you have sound basis for your Age 55 cutoff but if waste is reduced like it should be elsewhere I believe the cutoff age could be reduced from 55

halfastros81 said:

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So everyone under 55 gets nothing for what has been taken from them at gunpoint or is there some plan for that as well? I can see phasing it out but that seems like a pretty draconian measure because they don't have enough time to plan for recovery . I could see 40 , maybe even 45..

I can't say I disagree with any of the rest of it .

---

I'm 51. It sucks but it must be done. We cannot survive 4 more decades of this deficit. The poor are too stupid to realize that we are just inflating their buying power away while we are holding assets and stocks as a hedge against losing our buying power.

All they see is the entitlement check that makes them not light the torches and break out the pitchforks just like the wealthy planned it.

If we stop our socialist bs. Those that work hard and take risk will thrive and those that do not won't. But that is all you can really ask for. The opportunity for greatness, not a guaranteed bare minimum outcome.

Still see a few on here hoping that we can grow our way out of this with AI or some other miracle.

Hope is not a plan.

Cutting spending to the bone where it's unconstitutional or unproductive is a huge component of the plan. A good bit of it is unproductive.

EclipseAg said:

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AJ02 said:

---

EclipseAg said:

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So the solution to fixing Social Security is to have some old people voluntarily send back their checks and then move in with their kids while voting for non-existent politicians who are running on dismantling the program?

---

Hell no my parents aren't moving in with me!!! They barely took care of me growing up, so no way am I taking care of them when they're crotchety old farts who wear diapers.

---

I think we may have found the motivation behind a lot of this rhetoric.

You all hate your parents.

Makes sense now.

---

Just a guess, but I imagine that attitude is less prevalent amongst the Silent Generation and Boomers.

matureag said:

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EclipseAg said:

---

AJ02 said:

---

EclipseAg said:

---

So the solution to fixing Social Security is to have some old people voluntarily send back their checks and then move in with their kids while voting for non-existent politicians who are running on dismantling the program?

---

Hell no my parents aren't moving in with me!!! They barely took care of me growing up, so no way am I taking care of them when they're crotchety old farts who wear diapers.

---

I think we may have found the motivation behind a lot of this rhetoric.

You all hate your parents.

Makes sense now.

---

Just a guess, but I imagine that attitude is less prevalent amongst the Silent Generation and Boomers.

---

Because most of their parents are already dead?

BonfireNerd04 said:

---

matureag said:

---

EclipseAg said:

---

AJ02 said:

---

EclipseAg said:

---

So the solution to fixing Social Security is to have some old people voluntarily send back their checks and then move in with their kids while voting for non-existent politicians who are running on dismantling the program?

---

Hell no my parents aren't moving in with me!!! They barely took care of me growing up, so no way am I taking care of them when they're crotchety old farts who wear diapers.

---

I think we may have found the motivation behind a lot of this rhetoric.

You all hate your parents.

Makes sense now.

---

Just a guess, but I imagine that attitude is less prevalent amongst the Silent Generation and Boomers.

---

Because most of their parents are already dead?

---

Not here. The wife and I have dads that are 92 and 89. Still hanging in there. We respect them and treasure the time we have left with them.

I agree . Irrationally hating your parents generally seems like a newer phenomenon that arose after boomers . Just a theory but the inflection point was about the time the public schools began to be dominated by leftists .

BonfireNerd04 said:

---

matureag said:

---

EclipseAg said:

---

AJ02 said:

---

EclipseAg said:

---

So the solution to fixing Social Security is to have some old people voluntarily send back their checks and then move in with their kids while voting for non-existent politicians who are running on dismantling the program?

---

Hell no my parents aren't moving in with me!!! They barely took care of me growing up, so no way am I taking care of them when they're crotchety old farts who wear diapers.

---

I think we may have found the motivation behind a lot of this rhetoric.

You all hate your parents.

Makes sense now.

---

Just a guess, but I imagine that attitude is less prevalent amongst the Silent Generation and Boomers.

---

Because most of their parents are already dead?

---

Lots of boomers with aging and disabled parents. And some of us care for brothers and sisters too. And whatever resources they have left--principally SS and Medicare---makes it possible to do so.

I'm surprised that euthanasia and assisted suicide hasn't been tossed out there to address this issue as well. Not a reduction of benefits rather a reduction of beneficiaries.

BonfireNerd04 said:

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UntoldSpirit said:

---

Haven't read all of this thread, so I apologize if this is repeated or already off target.

Why are social security and medicare being singled out here? We are tens of trillions in debt. We don't have the money for ANYTHING. No need to separate out SS & Med, and then use it for generational blame.

---

Because those two programs combined constitute 1/3 of all federal government spending. More than we spend on defense.

---

Budget can be balanced without major cuts to SS and Medi. Adjustments to program may of course be needed over the long term and are probably desirable, but no need to panic about these large programs in the way this thread does. We need to start with balancing the budget soon.

Example of how the budget can get balanced in the next 4 to 6 years:

Current Annual Budget
5.1 Trillion Revenues

4.1 Trillion Entitlements
1.0 Trillion Interest on debt
0.9 Trillion Defense
1.0 Trillion in Other spending

7 Trillion in Spending

1.9 Trillion deficit

Balance the budget through growth and holding the line on spending:

Annual numbers achieved in 4-6 years in 2025 dollars:

0.75 Trillion increased annual revenue due to 1.5% increase in GDP due to BBB
0.3 Trillion in additional revenue due to tarrifs
0.5 Trillion annual savings in fraud and efficiency cuts
0.3 Trillion annual savings due to reduced debt interest rates
0.15 Trillion annual savings in in additional cuts

=2.0 Trillion of deficit reduction in 2025 dollars

Maintain all spending levels at or below inflation.

This is not YET an impossible problem if we can keep Democrats out of power. The growth agenda is a start.

Zobel said:

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AgGrad99 said:

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Change Detection said:

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The system should stop now. Pay the $44K out to all retirees, and nobody pays income tax until all they put in is made zero in the ledger.

---

Dont hate that idea.

---

Note this also categorically will not make current retirees whole; they're largely zero income tax payers.

---

Well, yeah, NOW...

But for 50+ years they weren't.

There needs to be a phase out of the program over a period of time, so that people can adjust to it.

That way everyone gets ****ed somewhat...the olds lose some of their benefits, us Gen Xers lose more, but we paid in for fewer years, then the Gen Y/Z/Alpha folks also keep paying but at lower rates and also get lower benefits. ****ery for everyone.

What you apparently want is to **** the people that paid a **** ton into the system and then planned on it for retirement so that you younger people don't get ****ed nearly as much...

Sounds exactly like a Gen Y/Z/Alpha kinda plan...

Ag with kids said:

---

Zobel said:

---

AgGrad99 said:

---

Change Detection said:

---

The system should stop now. Pay the $44K out to all retirees, and nobody pays income tax until all they put in is made zero in the ledger.

---

Dont hate that idea.

---

Note this also categorically will not make current retirees whole; they're largely zero income tax payers.

---

Well, yeah, NOW...

But for 50+ years they weren't.

There needs to be a phase out of the program over a period of time, so that people can adjust to it.

That way everyone gets ****ed somewhat...the olds lose some of their benefits, us Gen Xers lose more, but we paid in for fewer years, then the Gen Y/Z/Alpha folks also keep paying but at lower rates and also get lower benefits. ****ery for everyone.

What you apparently want is to **** the people that paid a **** ton into the system and then planned on it for retirement so that you younger people don't get ****ed nearly as much...

Sounds exactly like a Gen Y/Z/Alpha kinda plan...

---

Do you think tax rates will drop long term even with cuts to ss? As a late gen x, I fully expect to begin paying higher rates and never see a dime - squeezed on both ends. That is the price we'll pay for letting people collect on foolish past promises up until now.

Is BDS (Boomer Derangement Syndrome) a thing? If not I just coined the phrase.

UntoldSpirit said:

---

BonfireNerd04 said:

---

UntoldSpirit said:

---

Haven't read all of this thread, so I apologize if this is repeated or already off target.

Why are social security and medicare being singled out here? We are tens of trillions in debt. We don't have the money for ANYTHING. No need to separate out SS & Med, and then use it for generational blame.

---

Because those two programs combined constitute 1/3 of all federal government spending. More than we spend on defense.

---

Budget can be balanced without major cuts to SS and Medi. Adjustments to program may of course be needed over the long term and are probably desirable, but no need to panic about these large programs in the way this thread does. We need to start with balancing the budget soon.

Example of how the budget can get balanced in the next 4 to 6 years:

Current Annual Budget
5.1 Trillion Revenues

4.1 Trillion Entitlements
1.0 Trillion Interest on debt
0.9 Trillion Defense
1.0 Trillion in Other spending

7 Trillion in Spending

1.9 Trillion deficit

Balance the budget through growth and holding the line on spending:

Annual numbers achieved in 4-6 years in 2025 dollars:

0.75 Trillion increased annual revenue due to 1.5% increase in GDP due to BBB
0.3 Trillion in additional revenue due to tarrifs
0.5 Trillion annual savings in fraud and efficiency cuts
0.3 Trillion annual savings due to reduced debt interest rates
0.15 Trillion annual savings in in additional cuts

=2.0 Trillion of deficit reduction in 2025 dollars

Maintain all spending levels at or below inflation.

This is not YET an impossible problem if we can keep Democrats out of power. The growth agenda is a start.

---

Yeah taxing me at 28% to pay the 4.1 trillion in entitlements is a non starter.

What do your numbers look like with let's say a 15% flat tax where the top 1% are not paying >40% of federal income taxes?

MemphisAg1 said:

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cef88 said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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The larger question is why do you think you're so special that you shouldn't pay 6.2% of your wage income into SS like everybody else has done for 90 years?

---

Maybe because he realized that it is a broken system.

---

It is not broken yet.

---

Ah yes, you have come to my same conclusion, the ending hasn't occurred yet. Glad we can agree on the outcome but not the execution.

MemphisAg1 said:

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Zobel said:

---

So far what is happening in this thread is confirming that at least the vocals boomers are sorely ignorant of the financial situation, how the budgeting and funding works, and are selfish and proudly against acting in any kind of decent civic way… while screaming that everyone else is a leftist and collectivist. It's embarrassing. You should feel bad.

---

I feel really good about collecting my SS benefits after paying into it for 45 years. Even better now that I've read all this whining from those unwilling to do what those before them did... pay their share into the SS system.

---

To be read as, "I got sold a bill of goods and paid into a broken system and expect the broken system to continue until i get PAID my comeuppance, after that IDGAF"

which then they would go on to say

"You must do the same until I'm free and clear, then you can swallow the nuke you pansy a**"

halfastros81 said:

---

I agree . Irrationally hating your parents generally seems like a newer phenomenon that arose after boomers . Just a theory but the inflection point was about the time the public schools began to be dominated by leftists .

---

"Hate" is a strong word. More like I will expend the same amount of time, energy, and effort as was spent on me.

cef88 said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

Zobel said:

---

So far what is happening in this thread is confirming that at least the vocals boomers are sorely ignorant of the financial situation, how the budgeting and funding works, and are selfish and proudly against acting in any kind of decent civic way… while screaming that everyone else is a leftist and collectivist. It's embarrassing. You should feel bad.

---

I feel really good about collecting my SS benefits after paying into it for 45 years. Even better now that I've read all this whining from those unwilling to do what those before them did... pay their share into the SS system.

---

To be read as, "I got sold a bill of goods and paid into a broken system and expect the broken system to continue until i get PAID my comeuppance, after that IDGAF"

which then they would go on to say

"You must do the same until I'm free and clear, then you can swallow the nuke you pansy a**"

---

But don't call them selfish, or they will say you're trolling and psychoanalyze that you secretly hate your parents, or something.

Ag with kids said:

---

Zobel said:

---

AgGrad99 said:

---

Change Detection said:

---

The system should stop now. Pay the $44K out to all retirees, and nobody pays income tax until all they put in is made zero in the ledger.

---

Dont hate that idea.

---

Note this also categorically will not make current retirees whole; they're largely zero income tax payers.

---

Well, yeah, NOW...

But for 50+ years they weren't.

There needs to be a phase out of the program over a period of time, so that people can adjust to it.

That way everyone gets ****ed somewhat...the olds lose some of their benefits, us Gen Xers lose more, but we paid in for fewer years, then the Gen Y/Z/Alpha folks also keep paying but at lower rates and also get lower benefits. ****ery for everyone.

What you apparently want is to **** the people that paid a **** ton into the system and then planned on it for retirement so that you younger people don't get ****ed nearly as much...

Sounds exactly like a Gen Y/Z/Alpha kinda plan...

---

The amusing thing here is that I was pointing out why this plan is not in current retirees favor. In other words, arguing for the interests of baby boomers.

You've also clearly not read what I've written. What I want is a fiscally sustainable system for my children, and I'm willing to continue to pay full rate and receive nothing back to get there. For that, I'm *checks notes* an entitled liberal and condescending.

We need more people to look at this soberly and do what's right for the future of the nation we love - which may not be what's right for their bank account.

Quote:

---

The basic area we agree is that changes must be made to address the funding/benefits gap going forward. The OP is pushing a concept that people in or near retirement should forego some or all of their SS benefit out of a sense of civic duty. While he is welcome to do that himself, for 95% of people who've paid into SS for many years, that is a non-starter.

---

You won't answer but I'll ask anyway. Why is it a nonstarter for one segment of society to take a haircut but not another nonstarter for a different one?

UntoldSpirit said:

---

BonfireNerd04 said:

---

UntoldSpirit said:

---

Haven't read all of this thread, so I apologize if this is repeated or already off target.

Why are social security and medicare being singled out here? We are tens of trillions in debt. We don't have the money for ANYTHING. No need to separate out SS & Med, and then use it for generational blame.

---

Because those two programs combined constitute 1/3 of all federal government spending. More than we spend on defense.

---

Budget can be balanced without major cuts to SS and Medi. Adjustments to program may of course be needed over the long term and are probably desirable, but no need to panic about these large programs in the way this thread does. We need to start with balancing the budget soon.

Example of how the budget can get balanced in the next 4 to 6 years:

Current Annual Budget
5.1 Trillion Revenues

4.1 Trillion Entitlements
1.0 Trillion Interest on debt
0.9 Trillion Defense
1.0 Trillion in Other spending

7 Trillion in Spending

1.9 Trillion deficit

Balance the budget through growth and holding the line on spending:

Annual numbers achieved in 4-6 years in 2025 dollars:

0.75 Trillion increased annual revenue due to 1.5% increase in GDP due to BBB
0.3 Trillion in additional revenue due to tarrifs
0.5 Trillion annual savings in fraud and efficiency cuts
0.3 Trillion annual savings due to reduced debt interest rates
0.15 Trillion annual savings in in additional cuts

=2.0 Trillion of deficit reduction in 2025 dollars

Maintain all spending levels at or below inflation.

This is not YET an impossible problem if we can keep Democrats out of power. The growth agenda is a start.

---

It's more productive to talk to people than ChatGPT or whatever LLM you used for this.

So, ask your AI this:
How do you reconcile holding below inflation when SS costs rise ~4-5% annually due to aging population and wage indexing, vs. ~2-3% inflation?

The SS trust fund depletes in less than ten years. Medicare
grows even faster, so your $4.1T increases to $5T+ by 2030.

And where does the magical debt interest rate relief come from?

Mandatory growth is baked into our budget. The CBO shows our deficit rising to $2.5T by 2035 without reforms. 90% of project budget growth comes from only interest, SS, and Medicare. You can't fix this problem by cutting away at the 10%.