Trump threatens 5% tariff on Mexico over water treaty violations affecting Texas farmers
President demands 200,000 acre-feet released by Dec. 31 to help Texas farmers facing irrigation shortages

Texas farm groups warned last year of a disastrous season for citrus and sugar as Mexican and U.S. officials worked to resolve a dispute over the 1944 treaty that supplies U.S. farmers with critical irrigation. The two countries have clashed over the treaty before, but drought-driven shortages were the most severe in nearly 30 years.

Mexico has reneged on its promise to meet the requirements of the treaty.

Obligatory: good trump

Suggested principle going forward- the only good tariffs are the ones never put into place. IMO, Mexico should fold on this very quickly.

I am tired of paying so much for fresh fruit at my HEB.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-threatens-5-tariff-mexico-over-water-treaty-violations-affecting-texas-farmers

Can't say this is a bad thing of course but I think we get a lot of produce/fruits from their side of the Rio Grand as well.

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Texas farmers have long pushed for Mexico to send more water to meet the obligations of the 81-year-old treaty that says Mexico is obligated to deliver 1.75 million acre-feet of water to the U.S. every five years. Trump also threatened sanctions and tariffs against Mexico in April, complaining then that the country had delivered less than 30 percent of the requirement over a five-year window that ended in October.

Mexico argues that climate change-driven drought has hindered its ability to send the requisite water, but officials promised to send 420,000 acre-feet to the U.S. by October.

Trump's Truth Social post came shortly after he spent the afternoon with farmers and lawmakers from agriculture-heavy states while announcing a $12 billion bailout for farmers who were hurt by his ongoing trade war.

Mexican imports currently face a 25 percent tariff, though most goods are exempted if they comply with the U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement, which Trump negotiated during his first term. It also faces additional tariffs on autos, auto parts, steel and aluminum that Trump imposed on imports from around the world on national security grounds.

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I didn't know it had gotten that bad.

Yes, state and federal politicians have been talking about doing something for decades but of course never have. Whole industries and farms have gone out of business due to the theft of water by the Mexicans. It's all well documented for decades now.

Only Trump will actually stick a finger in their face and solve the problem. Good Trump.

Good Trump! **** Mexico!

nortex97 said:

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Can't say this is a bad thing of course but I think we get a lot of produce/fruits from their side of the Rio Grand as well.

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Mexican imports currently face a 25 percent tariff, though most goods are exempted if they comply with the U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement, which Trump negotiated during his first term. It also faces additional tariffs on autos, auto parts, steel and aluminum that Trump imposed on imports from around the world on national security grounds.

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I didn't know it had gotten that bad.

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I went into my HEB a month or two back and saw cantaloupes "reduced" to 2.99 for the "regular price" of 3.99.

I walked back out w/o cantaloupe.

Saving grace, my wife, who had asked for it is EVEN cheaper than I am. I am a truly lucky man.

Mx has built dams on every tributary to the Rio Grande and shorted us for decades. We need to just nuke the dams

Im sure adding data centers in texas will help solve our water problem

How does taxing us punish Mexico?

This is another issue that is more deep than it appears. Nearly all of Mexico's major farms are now owned by companies with ties to U.S. ag industry. They enjoy cheap labor in Mexico and have free trade back across the river. So while it is true that there is a lot of ag industry out of production on the U.S. side, and a lot of that is driven by lack of water, it is also true that a lot of it is driven by choice. The treaty needs to be adhered to without question. But as with most things, follow the money. This isn't just a bunch of small mom and pop farms on each side of the river screaming about unfairness. More like first cousins who are really ok with the system but scream once in a while to make their parents think they are the little angels the parents think they are.

If he really wants results he should tax remittances imho

I took a few minutes to scroll through that treaty. Do we meet our obligations to deliver the Colorado River water? Seems like I read elsewhere that we are violating the other part of this treaty regarding the Colorado.

nortex97 said:

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Can't say this is a bad thing of course but I think we get a lot of produce/fruits from their side of the Rio Grand as well.

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Texas farmers have long pushed for Mexico to send more water to meet the obligations of the 81-year-old treaty that says Mexico is obligated to deliver 1.75 million acre-feet of water to the U.S. every five years. Trump also threatened sanctions and tariffs against Mexico in April, complaining then that the country had delivered less than 30 percent of the requirement over a five-year window that ended in October.

Mexico argues that climate change-driven drought has hindered its ability to send the requisite water, but officials promised to send 420,000 acre-feet to the U.S. by October.

Trump's Truth Social post came shortly after he spent the afternoon with farmers and lawmakers from agriculture-heavy states while announcing a $12 billion bailout for farmers who were hurt by his ongoing trade war.

Mexican imports currently face a 25 percent tariff, though most goods are exempted if they comply with the U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement, which Trump negotiated during his first term. It also faces additional tariffs on autos, auto parts, steel and aluminum that Trump imposed on imports from around the world on national security grounds.

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I didn't know it had gotten that bad.

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Can't speak for the RGV but I can speak to the Coastal Bend and water shortages are critical for South Texas. It's really, really bad.

On the border at Falcon lake headwaters both four legged and two legged critters can wade across. It should be nearly a mile wide but maybe 20 yds.

99.99% your'e joking about bombing the dams but of course it wouldn't solve the problem. Stockpiling water and releasing it when it's needed is the right answer and I feel like Trump has the leverage to get it done .

I will say this, Falcon would be more than 16% full and Amistad more than 35% full if there were no dams in the Mexican watershed areas.

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Trump threatens 5% tariff...

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Supreme Court on line 2...

halfastros81 said:

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99.99% your'e joking about bombing the dams but of course it wouldn't solve the problem. Stockpiling water and releasing it when it's needed is the right answer and I feel like Trump has the leverage to get it done .

I will say this, Falcon would be more than 16% full and Amistad more than 35% full if there were no dams in the Mexican watershed areas.

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Yea I don't have access to aircraft to carry that kind of payload, so it's just a pipe dream for those dams to go away.

This is one of those uniquely US/Mexico quandaries that shows how intermingled the countries are. As several posters have mentioned, a lot of that agriculture on the Mexican side is tied to the US and either outright controlled by US interests/owners or controlled via purchase arrangements. The for export Ag in Mexico is huge since the NAFTA, during produce season in Pharr alone about 3000 trucks a day cross with just produce and it is expected to increase. That doesn't count Laredo, Browntown, RGC & Roma, or Nogales where a ton crosses also.

Mexico offered to pay the water debt via the dams, that were built after the treaty and do not affect the Falcon or Amistad watersheds, that inflow to the Rio Grande in Rio Grande City. But I don't think the US is accepting the offer as it isn't contemplated in the treaty. https://www.borderreport.com/news/environment/mexico-proposes-unique-way-to-repay-water-it-owes-us/

I don't think a 70 year old treaty could ever have imagined that the Rio Grande Valley and its corresponding Mexican border cities would have a population approaching 3 million people, almost twice the size of San Antonio. The RGV and the Mexican side have a huge water problem, it just hasn't been publicized as of yet as the areas encourage growth as fast as they can. This problem will dwarf Corpus's issues when it comes up. The RGV still has a lot of thirsty Agriculture, as does the Mexican side. Mexico just passed legislation basically nationalizing the countries water rights and access. Mexican Ag groups have marched on Congress, blocked highways, and raised hell, and are continuing to do so. Ain't nobody happy.

The bottom line in all of this is that there is a now ton of farming and ranching in what amounts to semi-desert areas and a boat load of toilets flush and lawns get watered in the lower Rio Grande Delta area, not to mention Laredo. Couple this with HEB, Kroger, and Wal-Mart (and their customers mind you) wanting cheap lettuce, tomatoes, and vegetables year round.

And the 5% tariff will hurt US companies and consumers more than it will Mexico.

I can only speak for Sabinas River that flows into Falcon and in 80's had significant flow in Sabinas, and now it's a trickle there. Not much if any gets to Falcon.

RGV AG said:

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This is one of those uniquely US/Mexico quandaries that shows how intermingled the countries are. As several posters have mentioned, a lot of that agriculture on the Mexican side is tied to the US and either outright controlled by US interests/owners or controlled via purchase arrangements. The for export Ag in Mexico is huge since the NAFTA, during produce season in Pharr alone about 3000 trucks a day cross with just produce and it is expected to increase. That doesn't count Laredo, Browntown, RGC & Roma, or Nogales where a ton crosses also.

Mexico offered to pay the water debt via the dams, that were built after the treaty and do not affect the Falcon or Amistad watersheds, that inflow to the Rio Grande in Rio Grande City. But I don't think the US is accepting the offer as it isn't contemplated in the treaty. https://www.borderreport.com/news/environment/mexico-proposes-unique-way-to-repay-water-it-owes-us/

I don't think a 70 year old treaty could ever have imagined that the Rio Grande Valley and its corresponding Mexican border cities would have a population approaching 3 million people, almost twice the size of San Antonio. The RGV and the Mexican side have a huge water problem, it just hasn't been publicized as of yet as the areas encourage growth as fast as they can. This problem will dwarf Corpus's issues when it comes up. The RGV still has a lot of thirsty Agriculture, as does the Mexican side. Mexico just passed legislation basically nationalizing the countries water rights and access. Mexican Ag groups have marched on Congress, blocked highways, and raised hell, and are continuing to do so. Ain't nobody happy.

The bottom line in all of this is that there is a now ton of farming and ranching in what amounts to semi-desert areas and a boat load of toilets flush and lawns get watered in the lower Rio Grande Delta area, not to mention Laredo. Couple this with HEB, Kroger, and Wal-Mart (and their customers mind you) wanting cheap lettuce, tomatoes, and vegetables year round.

And the 5% tariff will hurt US companies and consumers more than it will Mexico.

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Liberalism always does.

Would sure be great if we could solve our water problems without more taxes.

Mexico built that dam on the Sabinas river way, way back when before the treaty. I think for many, many years there was not much pull on that water downstream from the dam to where it runs into the river/Falcon. But in the last 30 or so years areas along that river have really grown up, Nueva Rosita was a wide spot in the road for decades. Hell, I want to say that there are like 4 or 5 industrial plants in that town now.

What about the inflows into Falcon from the US side, like the Veleno creeks and such? I have always been curious about how time has treated all the arroyos and such. I got to visit a ranch in Coahuila that the Sabinas flowed through circa the late 80's and my goodness it was beautiful country, but it was dry as a bone save for that river.

Mexico was crafty and smart they put two dams on the Rio San Juan, one in China and the other just south of Rio Grande City. The Rio San Juan picks up all that inflow from all those mountains and mesa's coming out of Monterrey and thus those two dams usually hold a lot of water. All the land around a large portion of that river is puro caliche and thus water runs, a lot of the earth around the Falcon water shed is dirt and sucks up the water.

Water is gonna be a big, big issue prolly within our lifetimes in STX.

RGV AG said:

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Mexico was crafty and smart they put two dams on the Rio San Juan, one in China and the other just south of Rio Grande City. The Rio San Juan picks up all that inflow from all those mountains and mesa's coming out of Monterrey and thus those two dams usually hold a lot of water. All the land around a large portion of that river is puro caliche and thus water runs, a lot of the earth around the Falcon water shed is dirt and sucks up the water.

Water is gonna be a big, big issue prolly within our lifetimes in STX.

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Feeling it now in SA, bigtime. We are ~4 years into it, and I'm worried about a 1950s style Texas drought lasting 7 years or more. Sure hope not.

Maybe I heard incorrectly but didn't water rights holders in the RGV get a significant payment from USDA in October for a portion of this deficit?

RGV AG said:

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Mexico built that dam on the Sabinas river way, way back when before the treaty. I think for many, many years there was not much pull on that water downstream from the dam to where it runs into the river/Falcon. But in the last 30 or so years areas along that river have really grown up, Nueva Rosita was a wide spot in the road for decades. Hell, I want to say that there are like 4 or 5 industrial plants in that town now.

What about the inflows into Falcon from the US side, like the Veleno creeks and such? I have always been curious about how time has treated all the arroyos and such. I got to visit a ranch in Coahuila that the Sabinas flowed through circa the late 80's and my goodness it was beautiful country, but it was dry as a bone save for that river.

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Those creeks that drain from US side are rain runoff creeks. Then there's Dolores Creek north of San Ygnacio that's actually flowing but salt water. Nothing drinks or wants that water.

That is what I understand as well. The sugar mill shut down last year due to lack of water, that was the reason given. But having lived a long time in Central America where Cane grows like careless weed, due to the abundant rain and moisture, in my old age I came to wonder why in the hell Cane was growing in the dry ass RGV.

No matter the treaty and such, I think the bottom line is that there is now alotta industry and gente living in a really dry area that averages about 16-17 inches of rain a year, if that.

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Those creeks that drain from US side are rain runoff creeks. Then there's Dolores Creek north of San Ygnacio that's actually flowing but salt water. Nothing drinks or wants that water.

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Gracias, I was under the impression, mistakenly I now realize, that some of the US creeks and arroyos actually ran water fairly regularly years ago.

The US still hasn't paid reparations to Mexico for the cattle that Gus and Woodrow wrangled.

RGV AG said:

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Those creeks that drain from US side are rain runoff creeks. Then there's Dolores Creek north of San Ygnacio that's actually flowing but salt water. Nothing drinks or wants that water.

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Gracias, I was under the impression, mistakenly I now realize, that some of the US creeks and arroyos actually ran water fairly regularly years ago.

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prob on US side also is that Rio Grande drainage on our side primarily flows east to the gulf. My place is about 20 miles from Mx and 40 miles north of Laredo near Encinal. In the 40's when my family purchased, the Raices creek flowed year round. 50's drought and advanced irrigation up around Crystal City and creek quit flowing. As a kid in 60's with a little rain I had a place kinda like quicksand where the water bubbled up thru the sandy bottom. Fun yet terrifying to play in.