Tokenization of everything

6,154 Views | 86 Replies | Last: 2 mo ago by EclipseAg
Dungeon Crawler Carl
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Enjoy your 57 second word salad for breakfast.


TLDW: "We are going to blow even bigger bubbles and you don't have a choice but to go along"
Signel
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He is not wrong. Even the financial sector has finally realized crypto isn't just Bitcoin and "digital money."

I've been on here for years saying that crypto is so much more and will never go away.

Just remember.... most of those wall street fools were saying crypto was fools gold years ago.

" BlackRock CEO Larry Fink has publicly reversed his previous criticism of Bitcoin, now describing it as a legitimate alternative asset and likening it to gold, a significant shift from his 2017 characterization of Bitcoin as an "index of money laundering""
YouBet
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I don't understand what he's even telling us in that video. Everything is already digital when it comes to financial transactions.

All of our net worths are 1s and 0s outside of your cash and metals you are stacking at home.

And what does he mean by tokenizing real estate and making it digital? Is he talking about things like buying digital RE akin to Second LIfe and Meta?

Or maybe he's just talking about better connections between crypto and existing digital assets.
American Hardwood
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All this sounds like a way to steal your real stuff and give you nothing but smoke and promises in return.

This is Jack and the magic beans in real life. Those beans led to a fantasy world too.
The best way to keep evil men from wielding great power is to not create great power in the first place.
Dungeon Crawler Carl
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Quote:

And what does he mean by tokenizing real estate and making it digital?


Think of all of the due diligence that goes into a CRE transaction (appraisals, finance, engineering and environmental assessments, roof inspections, energy audit, HVAC inspections etc.)

Then take all of the historic, current and projected operational expenses, CAPEX, leases, insurance, etc.

Then take all of that information and put it in one package onto a blockchain.

Now you have a true value of a physical asset.


Then you can sell portions of that package to investors on a blockchain.

Would you like to own a small portion of a signature building in your city? Now you can.


It's not a terrible idea.


It's the people that are implementing it that are the problem.......


And BTW.... you can do the same thing for a car, a single family home, a piece of construction equipment, a piece of artwork, etc....



Yukon Cornelius
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Good. This is a highly more efficient system.
YouBet
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That makes more sense and I should have thought of that.

Anyway, yes, agreed but I'm guessing whoever gets the lead position on this is not doing this in our best interest.

As an avid sci-if reader, Blackrock reminds me of one of those future mega corporations that have evolved into their own self-governing entity and have superseded civil governments. They have their own territory like a civil government with their own security forces and armies and actually compete with civil governments on policy and resources.
Yukon Cornelius
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You don't understand it.
Dungeon Crawler Carl
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Quote:

Blackrock reminds me of one of those future mega corporations that have evolved into their own self-governing entity and have superseded civil governments.


Robocop wasn't supposed to be a documentary......
YouBet
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Dungeon Crawler Carl said:

Quote:

Blackrock reminds me of one of those future mega corporations that have evolved into their own self-governing entity and have superseded civil governments.


Robocop wasn't supposed to be a documentary......


I would get used to it. A lot of sci-fi ultimately becomes reality and I firmly believe this common storyline will be one of those that does.
javajaws
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I think he's saying you'll be able to perform monetary transactions with your wife's beenie baby collection.
Detmersdislocatedshoulder
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it is unfortunate we can't tokenize this ******
ABATTBQ11
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YouBet said:

I don't understand what he's even telling us in that video. Everything is already digital when it comes to financial transactions.

All of our net worths are 1s and 0s outside of your cash and metals you are stacking at home.

And what does he mean by tokenizing real estate and making it digital? Is he talking about things like buying digital RE akin to Second LIfe and Meta?

Or maybe he's just talking about better connections between crypto and existing digital assets.


Think of it like an abstraction layer between a consumer and a product, whether it is financial, or in the case of real estate, physical. That layer can be broken into infinitesimal pieces and easily transacted on through tokenization.

As an example with real estate, let's say you own a commercial property. You could tokenize the ownership of that property and keep the whole thing, or you could easily sell off shares via a block chain transaction.

What he's saying with an ETF is basically the same. You tokenize the fund and sell it that way so basically anyone, anywhere can buy it.

So basically everything becomes money and fractionally barterable, as I understand it.
UTExan
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Jamie Dimon of JP Morgan Chase recently was interviewed on BBC and suggested that instead of crypto, we focus on stockpiling bullets, missiles, food and tangible items as a way of preserving western civilization against eastern threats (despotism).
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
AGinHI
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Yukon Cornelius said:

You don't understand it.

So what?

Why not explain it rather than ridicule like you're some elementary school kid on the playground teasing someone because they don't know what you know.
Waffledynamics
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Sometimes I feel like the finance world exists to make up complicated and bizarre ways to just make money out of nothing.
American Hardwood
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Yukon Cornelius said:

You don't understand it.

Does all this technology require a 100% available, accessible, and dependable power grid? Does it require a 100% available, accessible, and dependable information network? Do you have 100% control over either of these systems? I think I understand it quite well. You own and control nothing with these promises.
The best way to keep evil men from wielding great power is to not create great power in the first place.
Yukon Cornelius
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I've explained it many times on this board and people ignore the information and just choose to be fearful of it. So at this point my comments maybe a little less forthcoming. However I will try to do it quickly.

1. Here's the full interview. Not a clipped fear baiting soundbyte.


2. He's talking about opening the crypto markets into the traditional markets. The example he uses is an ETF. Now if an ETF were to be tokenized nothing changes on the ETF side. However you essentially create a derivative of the ETF and put it on chain so onchain money can buy and sell it.

The biggest benefit here is reduces settlement time from 2 days to 2 seconds.

It is a method to FREE capital. I don't see that as some bad thing.


3. Let's take a more extreme example of tokenizing your house. In reality right now the deed to every property is sitting in some county clerk office. And we all collectively "trust" the county offices never mess up or lose anything. It's an insanely archaic system to preserve property ownership. Instead you can have deed digitized onchain that is infinitely more secured and preserved. And there would be far less cost associated with title searches etc. it would be a cheaper more secure system. However when people hear "blockchain" they freak out because of all the fear porn produced about it from the last decade of legacy media.
American Hardwood
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Dungeon Crawler Carl said:

Quote:

Blackrock reminds me of one of those future mega corporations that have evolved into their own self-governing entity and have superseded civil governments.


Robocop wasn't supposed to be a documentary......

The Alien franchise goes even further with this.
The best way to keep evil men from wielding great power is to not create great power in the first place.
Yukon Cornelius
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Try getting a copy of a deed to your house if the county office doesn't have power.
Lone Stranger
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There is money in transaction fees.....especially if you can figure out how to ramp up the number of transactions to get anything done.,,,,,,,,,. Probably some inefficiencies to discover and improve and some to make worse. All while getting a cut of the pie.
AGinHI
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1. Sincere thank you.

2. It may come as a surprise but there are many, maybe even a majority, who've probably never seen your prior posts.
Yukon Cornelius
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No doubt no doubt. My apologies
American Hardwood
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The fact that I can sit in my house with all of my furniture and clothing and my arsenal to defend it goes a long way to proving I own it. Tell me how you are going to prove you own 0.0578% of a piece of a Toronto office building with your block chain when the grids go down.
The best way to keep evil men from wielding great power is to not create great power in the first place.
Waffledynamics
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ABATTBQ11 said:

YouBet said:

I don't understand what he's even telling us in that video. Everything is already digital when it comes to financial transactions.

All of our net worths are 1s and 0s outside of your cash and metals you are stacking at home.

And what does he mean by tokenizing real estate and making it digital? Is he talking about things like buying digital RE akin to Second LIfe and Meta?

Or maybe he's just talking about better connections between crypto and existing digital assets.


Think of it like an abstraction layer between a consumer and a product, whether it is financial, or in the case of real estate, physical. That layer can be broken into infinitesimal pieces and easily transacted on through tokenization.

As an example with real estate, let's say you own a commercial property. You could tokenize the ownership of that property and keep the whole thing, or you could easily sell off shares via a block chain transaction.

What he's saying with an ETF is basically the same. You tokenize the fund and sell it that way so basically anyone, anywhere can buy it.

So basically everything becomes money and fractionally barterable, as I understand it.


I'm struggling to understand the benefit of this to anyone but Wall Street. This just sounds to me like a way to make sure nobody actually owns anything and some rich people get to make more money on nothing but made up nonsense.

What is the benefit of other random people having an ownership stake in my property? What is the real benefit of everything being fractionable? I want to buy my property and own it.
Dungeon Crawler Carl
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This is just the next logical step to implementing a truly digital economy.

The agrarian age of humanity was replaced by the industrial age in the 1700s.

The industrial age of humanity is on its last legs.

The digital age of humanity is beginning to take shape.


Alvin Toffler wrote about this kind of thing way back in the day. The Third Wave was a masterclass in futuristic projection.



Yukon Cornelius
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That's not really how it'll work. Any fractional ownership like that will be relegated to PE firms.

Your house wouldn't be up to be traded… nothing for you would change except If you sold your house title costs would be near zero.
El Gallo Blanco
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Is he Jewish? He looks it. Sorry, I only trust conservative Christians at this point, and even then, not 100%.
Yukon Cornelius
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Do you not have a brokerage account? Everyone who has one has to wait on settlement times. It's like saying I'm not sure how online access to brokerage accounts benefits anyone but Wall Street? It benefits anyone and everyone in the market. Everyone can participate and everyone can be a beneficiary.

Y'all are getting hung up on some bizarre extreme example of fractional ownership of your own property. That wouldn't be a thing unless you somehow decided to sell part of it or something.

Now maybe your loan gets tokenized and banks trade your loan back and forth.
Martin Q. Blank
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Quote:

And what does he mean by tokenizing real estate and making it digital? Is he talking about things like buying digital RE akin to Second LIfe and Meta?

I'm assuming something along the lines of a Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT). Nobody actually owns property, but rather shares in a company that owns the property.
American Hardwood
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Yukon Cornelius said:

That's not really how it'll work. Any fractional ownership like that will be relegated to PE firms.

Your house wouldn't be up to be traded… nothing for you would change except If you sold your house title costs would be near zero.

We have a very different idea about the possible futures. I don't have the faith in humanity's frail systems that you do.

I understand the "benefits" of the digital age, but when it comes to assets, what I can touch and feel is real, digital assets are not.

ETA: I'll repost this since you didn't address it and it goes straight to my point. Everything you are selling depends on the below which you cannot control.
Quote:

Does all this technology require a 100% available, accessible, and dependable power grid? Does it require a 100% available, accessible, and dependable information network? Do you have 100% control over either of these systems? I think I understand it quite well. You own and control nothing with these promises.

The best way to keep evil men from wielding great power is to not create great power in the first place.
YouBet
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Waffledynamics said:

Sometimes I feel like the finance world exists to make up complicated and bizarre ways to just make money out of nothing.


They do. I would look at this as simply the next frontier in extending derivatives even further through new channels. The fiat world is running out of road so this helps continue it (assuming he's not talking about adopting something like BTC as currency in parallel with adopting blockchains - two different things).

There are already trillions of trillions derivative dollars sitting out in the virtual void that is frankly all just fake math and money. If all of that stuff were to actually be called in, the world would either collapse, or everyone would just have to agree all of that stuff actually doesn't mean anything and it all just gets written off. "Just write it off, Jerry!"

I got hung up earlier in the thread on the RE statement because I immediately went down the path of dumbasses actually buying fake property in the virtual world ala Second Life and Meta. That already failed a few times so was confused as to why Fink was bringing this up again, but that's not what he was talking about. He was talking about blockchain vision which that idea has been around since blockchain broke on the scene and then kind of died on the vine. I missed that because the clip was edited.
Yukon Cornelius
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Out of curiosity what do you think that's tangible now won't be? Your money is already digital. Your retirement accounts digital. Etc etc

ETA: what changes by being onchain are any different than your current power needs? Acces to your bank? Power. Access your deed? Power. Check your retirement accounts? Power.
Heineken-Ashi
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Dungeon Crawler Carl said:

Quote:

And what does he mean by tokenizing real estate and making it digital?


Think of all of the due diligence that goes into a CRE transaction (appraisals, finance, engineering and environmental assessments, roof inspections, energy audit, HVAC inspections etc.)

Then take all of the historic, current and projected operational expenses, CAPEX, leases, insurance, etc.

Then take all of that information and put it in one package onto a blockchain.

Now you have a true value of a physical asset.


Then you can sell portions of that package to investors on a blockchain.

Would you like to own a small portion of a signature building in your city? Now you can.


It's not a terrible idea.


It's the people that are implementing it that are the problem.......


And BTW.... you can do the same thing for a car, a single family home, a piece of construction equipment, a piece of artwork, etc....





"Yes, Mr investor, would you like to invest in a token representing the appraisal and escrow document fees for our 200 unit multifamily closing?"
Yukon Cornelius
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No one is saying that haha. Maybe for PE LP they get tokenized but that's still drastically different.

I swear some of yall haven't even watched what Fink has said and jsut making up stuff.
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