AtomicActuator said:

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Showing up to work and not crashing planes is a good start. Where are you going with this?

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Fair question. I am an ATC and just wanted to see what you thought a "Good ATC" was

tunefx said:

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1939 said:

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If they are fired who is going to replace them, there is a shortage already.

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Military ATC

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Been there done that. It took years to recover from PATCO strike and the system has never been fully restaffed.

Military controllers cannot step into busy facilities and just take over. However, they can plug and play at smaller facilities. There are other options, but the Gov can never get out of their own way.

Quote:

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the Gov can never get out of their own way.

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QFT

agAngeldad said:

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tunefx said:

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1939 said:

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If they are fired who is going to replace them, there is a shortage already.

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Military ATC

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Been there done that. It took years to recover from PATCO strike and the system has never been fully restaffed.

Military controllers cannot step into busy facilities and just take over. However, they can plug and play at smaller facilities. There are other options, but the Gov can never get out of their own way.

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DEI is the answer!

Tom Fox said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Logos Stick said:

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fc2112 said:

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Would you come into work if your employer said you were not going to be paid for that work?

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They will get paid once we re-open.

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Can you spend an IOU? If they're essential, then don't make them wait or even be upt for a possible missed paycheck. It's really simple. But we'd rather avoid an uncomfortable situation in the name of convenience.

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You're an idiot if you make 6 figures and don't have a few months savings in reserve.

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Doesn't matter. If they are considered essential, pay them accordingly. If you don't, they aren't essential.

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The fed owes me almost $200K right now and I am still performing the service unpaid until a CR is passed. When I was a fed LEO I worked through every shutdown unpaid. It is the cost of working with the feds.

No sympathy here. In return they have unmatched job security and guaranteed pay raises and COLA increases.

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Nobody is asking for sympathy and that sucks for you. It shouldn't be that way.

samurai_science said:

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agAngeldad said:

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tunefx said:

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1939 said:

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If they are fired who is going to replace them, there is a shortage already.

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Military ATC

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Been there done that. It took years to recover from PATCO strike and the system has never been fully restaffed.

Military controllers cannot step into busy facilities and just take over. However, they can plug and play at smaller facilities. There are other options, but the Gov can never get out of their own way.

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DEI is the answer!

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Im sure this is sarcastic... lol.... I have first hand experience where DEI failed and the FAA did not want to address it.

If the FAA wants to fix staffing, they need to increase training facilities 2-3 x times what they have in OKC. They need to throw lots of money at training and modify the pass/fail system. About 10 years ago, the FAA approached A&M about establishing an ATC training facility. It would have been a gold mine for the university, as they own CLL airport. A&M has since increased their operations in the UAS (DRONE) world and could really step in and make huge strides.

BTW, there are probably a few controllers calling in sick, etc. (that's a NATCA/Union thing) but most are showing up to work, and yes they will get 100% back pay. They should fund the FAA/military like they do several organizations, 2 years in advance, to avoid the no pay. Some controllers will struggle if not paid on time, but they will survive; this isn't the first shutdown.

I just looked at the current qualifications to apply for an ATC position.

More info here: Air Traffic Controller Qualifications

Amongst other things, the requirement to be 31 years of age or younger; and a prohibition on use of bifocal glasses seem to be pretty self-limiting hiring factors.

Kenneth_2003 said:

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Why is the Secretary spreading this lie?

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Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy said earlier Monday that controllers are struggling to make ends meet without pay, and some are considering taking second jobs to get by.

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What Duffy actually said was that some controllers are thinking and concerned about how to make ends meet if/when the paychecks do stop coming, and considering getting second jobs if the shutdown becomes extended, which is entirely reasonable to think about.

Don't fall for CNN's mischaracterizations.

If ATC isn't working, then planes aren't flying...think of all the carbon that saves. Lefties should be rejoicing, no?

Hypocrisy again....

Really though, Palantir needs to sell the government their ATC solution called "Skynet"

fc2112 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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fc2112 said:

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Would you come into work if your employer said you were not going to be paid for that work?

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They will get paid once we re-open.

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So - "Come into work and we'll pay you - some day. Don't know when - with no interest".

You still cool with it?

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Fine, then quit. Job abandonment is grounds for termination. Use this to clean out all the DEI controllers

agAngeldad said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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DEI is exactly the reason for the shortage. ATC requires a training course, and there are limited slots. Fill the training slots up based on minority status, not merit, and qualified people never even get to train.

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This is not true

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Sure about that?

https://nypost.com/2025/02/10/us-news/air-traffic-controller-shortage-of-3800-due-to-dei-practices/

Welfare queens still getting them ribeyes and Obama phones?

CanyonAg77 said:

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agAngeldad said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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DEI is exactly the reason for the shortage. ATC requires a training course, and there are limited slots. Fill the training slots up based on minority status, not merit, and qualified people never even get to train.

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This is not true

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Sure about that?

https://nypost.com/2025/02/10/us-news/air-traffic-controller-shortage-of-3800-due-to-dei-practices/

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Quote:

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A critical shortage of 3,800 air traffic controllers is because of the Federal Aviation Administration's DEI practices leaving a "gaping hole" in recruitment, a lawyer claimed to The Post.

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well if a lawyer claimed it to the ny post it must be true! lawyers famously never lie

Logos Stick said:

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fc2112 said:

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Would you come into work if your employer said you were not going to be paid for that work?

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They will get paid once we re-open.

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Have you not heard? Trump said they "might not get paid."

I can't say I'd blame them

Queso1 said:

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Welfare queens still getting them ribeyes and Obama phones?

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Of course.

Gotta make sure the government's money keeps getting filtered to the cattle farmers and phone companies without any delay.

And what better way than to make sure the middle folk (people on welfare) keep getting that which goes to them straight to the businesses they support with their purchases.

Old McDonald said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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agAngeldad said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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DEI is exactly the reason for the shortage. ATC requires a training course, and there are limited slots. Fill the training slots up based on minority status, not merit, and qualified people never even get to train.

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This is not true

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Sure about that?

https://nypost.com/2025/02/10/us-news/air-traffic-controller-shortage-of-3800-due-to-dei-practices/

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Quote:

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A critical shortage of 3,800 air traffic controllers is because of the Federal Aviation Administration's DEI practices leaving a "gaping hole" in recruitment, a lawyer claimed to The Post.

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well if a lawyer claimed it to the ny post it must be true! lawyers famously never lie

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There is some truth in that article, and President O, had a huge DEI program in 2017-ish that was worse than this. DEI has very little to do with hiring enough to keep up. I have worked with many "DEI" controllers that were damn good and many more "non-DEI" that weren't worth a crap. (Percentages play a part in that.)

The problem is the hiring and training process is flawed. Potential controllers at an aviation school have knowledge but have not demonstrated the actual "control/separation/safety" process, and it takes time. 70% of controllers from start to finish don't make it. The article says the same thing I stated previously: inadequate and flawed. I have worked with damn good controllers that didn't go to college.

One prominent air traffic controller source who spoke to The Post claimed training at the national academy, based in Oklahoma, is inadequate.

"The academy is flawed because it is not teaching everything that is needed to become an ATC and it's subjective to the opinion of an instructor who thinks you can or can't do the job," they said.

Charpie said:

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Logos Stick said:

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fc2112 said:

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Would you come into work if your employer said you were not going to be paid for that work?

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They will get paid once we re-open.

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Have you not heard? Trump said they "might not get paid."

I can't say I'd blame them

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Trump does not have the power to not pay them. They are working.

I wish they didn't have to pay the ones off at home buy they will get paid too.

Everyone is acting like this doesn't happen on the regular.

They should privatize ATC. Numerous nations use private ATC.

tunefx said:

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1939 said:

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If they are fired who is going to replace them, there is a shortage already.

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Military ATC

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Good luck, short manned there, too