AAUP American Association of University Professors bills itself as the largest organization devoted to university professors and academics.

I know it will shock you to hear that the AAUP published material about TPUSA in October 2024, accusing the organization of engaging in "racist, homophobic and transphobic speech while on campus," and described Kirk as a "professional provocateur" .

Of course, they are all in on "academic freedom" and very against discipling faculty/administrators who were asses (my words) in the aftermath of Charlie Kirk's shooting.

So, their argument is that they can say anything in class even though their audience is captive, but when conservatives come on campus, they present a danger when people choose to participate.

"The AAUP did not answer a follow-up question about whether TPUSA and Kirk fall under the "extraordinary circumstances" where "danger" justifies revoking an invitation to college campuses."

More here…
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/liberal-professors-group-backs-faculty-speech-after-charlie-kirk-assassination-silent-condemning-attack

Something needs to change.

BTW, in my defense, I never joined.

AAUP

American Association of Useful Professors

bobbranco said:

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AAUP

American Association of Useless Professors

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fify

Tea Party said:

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bobbranco said:

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AAUP

American Association of Useless Professors

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fify

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I am pretty sure that is what Bob meant. But I could be wrong. :-)

I'm getting rather tired of the unassailable and sanctimonious university professor BS. The students are customers. The profs are employees. I see the nature of the relationship should be somewhat different than it has been.

There is vastly too much deference to the classical master/apprentice relationship. Yes, there should be respect but it should be mutual and in the interest of conveying topical knowledge.

Over_ed said:

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Tea Party said:

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bobbranco said:

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AAUP

American Association of Useless Professors

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fify

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I am pretty sure that is what Bob meant. But I could be wrong. :-)

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Upgraded them from Useful Idiots...

I do understand that some of this goes back to the duality of the university system: research and education. The question is which customer is paying more and gets more deference, I suppose: the research grantor (which often is political or at least results biased) or the students?

My kid is in his junior year. Last year, he decided he didn't want to go to college and would rather be a firefighter/EMT. I've been trying to get him to reconsider as he's ranked 3rd in his class (he has the kind of intellect where college should be of use to him).

I think I'm going to stop trying to get him to reconsider.

Over_ed said:

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Tea Party said:

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bobbranco said:

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AAUP

American Association of Useless Professors

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fify

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I am pretty sure that is what Bob meant. But I could be wrong. :-)

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Gotta love that auto-INcorrect

Slicer97 said:

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My kid is in his junior year. Last year, he decided he didn't want to go to college and would rather be a firefighter/EMT. I've been trying to get him to reconsider as he's ranked 3rd in his class (he has the kind of intellect where college should be of use to him).

I think I'm going to stop trying to get him to reconsider.

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Thread derail of sorts, but push him towards enlisting if this is really what he wants. 4 year enlistment in the AF as a fire fighter, then he gets out at 22 years old with the GI Bill and Hazelwood act to fund his education. If he's a real go getter, he also would use tuition assistance while serving his 4 year enlistment and have knocked out most gen ed requirements.

Gives him a chance to mature, find out if he likes fire fighting, and come out on the back end being able to make a more informed choice about what to major in without incurring any debt.

Slicer97 said:

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My kid is in his junior year. Last year, he decided he didn't want to go to college and would rather be a firefighter/EMT. I've been trying to get him to reconsider as he's ranked 3rd in his class (he has the kind of intellect where college should be of use to him).

I think I'm going to stop trying to get him to reconsider.

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Former Vol FF here...
Go to college and get a quick basic degree where he can wrap up as many of the basics as possible in summer school or even over his next three semesters of HS as dual credit.

There are a few doors within the fire service that having a bachelors will open for him.
From there he can walk into the fire academy of his choosing. Assuming in Texas he'll be TCFP. All of the big cities run their own academies and many of the mid-size cities as well. The big departments typically hire from their internal academies and smaller departments hire out of the bigger cities or from the training academy at TEEX (they train SFFMA and TCFP).

The college degree will never not hurt and can be useful if he ever wants to further himself on the instructor side, get more involved in the medical side (especially if he lever left the fire service to get into a hospital or clinical setting), or if he were to pursue a Law Enforcement Commission which is required now on the Fire Marshal and Arson Investigators side.

Additionally a lot of FF, especially depending on their schedules pick up side gigs. The degree could be helpful there as well with a bunch of business electives or even a full blown BA/BS in a business field.

ABC shifts can be 24 on 48 off... I know Spring for example runs 48/96... So thats 4 days OFF between shifts.
Houston runs a (less common) 4 shift rotation with 24 on, 24 off, 24 on, 120 (5 days) off. A LOT of the Houston guys have side gigs just to occupy their time (including running part time with other departments).

Slicer97 said:

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My kid is in his junior year. Last year, he decided he didn't want to go to college and would rather be a firefighter/EMT.

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I know a young man in that role.

Married. Owns his own home. Has a boat. Fishes a lot. Learned a lot of homeowner skills from his firefighter buddies.

He's doing quite well.

Success is different for everyone, and there are a lot of ways to get there.

Yeah my oldest was classic counselor pushed college knowing he had zero interest in 3-4 more years of full time classroom.

Now a commercial electrician apprentice. ~$50-65k first year depending on overtime. Owner is basically telling the guys that by the time they have their journeyman the base will be close to 6 figures. So 6 figures by the time he'd have gotten out of college. Zero debt.

I loved A&M but jeez.

Slicer97 said:

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My kid is in his junior year. Last year, he decided he didn't want to go to college and would rather be a firefighter/EMT. I've been trying to get him to reconsider as he's ranked 3rd in his class (he has the kind of intellect where college should be of use to him).

I think I'm going to stop trying to get him to reconsider.

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Obviously, he got his smarts from his mother.

Slicer97 said:

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My kid is in his junior year. Last year, he decided he didn't want to go to college and would rather be a firefighter/EMT. I've been trying to get him to reconsider as he's ranked 3rd in his class (he has the kind of intellect where college should be of use to him).

I think I'm going to stop trying to get him to reconsider.

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But on a serious note, I would encourage him to still go to college and go into STEM somewhere. While still there, much less baggage in the engineering world, for example.

AggieEP said:

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Slicer97 said:

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My kid is in his junior year. Last year, he decided he didn't want to go to college and would rather be a firefighter/EMT. I've been trying to get him to reconsider as he's ranked 3rd in his class (he has the kind of intellect where college should be of use to him).

I think I'm going to stop trying to get him to reconsider.

---

Thread derail of sorts, but push him towards enlisting if this is really what he wants. 4 year enlistment in the AF as a fire fighter, then he gets out at 22 years old with the GI Bill and Hazelwood act to fund his education. If he's a real go getter, he also would use tuition assistance while serving his 4 year enlistment and have knocked out most gen ed requirements.

Gives him a chance to mature, find out if he likes fire fighting, and come out on the back end being able to make a more informed choice about what to major in without incurring any debt.

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I flunked out of A&M, hitch-hiked, spent 4 years in the infantry of all things, then went back and got my first degree from A&M.

AggieEP offers a great alternative. Additionally he may be able to get several/many college courses while in, depending on MOS.

Slicer97 said:

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My kid is in his junior year. Last year, he decided he didn't want to go to college and would rather be a firefighter/EMT. I've been trying to get him to reconsider as he's ranked 3rd in his class (he has the kind of intellect where college should be of use to him).

I think I'm going to stop trying to get him to reconsider.

---

During 2020, looking at social media, a lot of libs believed that white police officers were just looking for opportunities to shoot or beat down black victims. That was all that seemed to be shown on social media and hysteria followed.


Some of the same is happening now, except that it is some conservatives and college education. My kids' biggest issues in college now are still not being able to understand what the professor or TA are saying because of language issues. They are still questioning the value of differential equations and other math topics. They are not being trained to be trans or recruited to be communists. Just as when most of us are in college, some professors are more focused on their research, some professors are hard to understand, and some are sticklers for deadlines. Nobody clicks on the tweet or watches the news about the prof that added an assignment to the syllabus or kept a class 12 minutes over. But they do if it is a prof spewing hate or stupid.



Picking colleges and majors is like picking stocks or investments. Select smart stocks, and your investment will grow. Of course, you don't know the future value of a stock, but the difference is that it is easy to pick majors or areas of study that will have no value in the future. The same can even be said about choosing college at all. For many, not going is a better investment, but it is still a better investment for most to attend college if their area of study aligns with their interests and future earning potential.

Over_ed said:

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Tea Party said:

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bobbranco said:

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AAUP

American Association of Useless Professors

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fify

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I am pretty sure that is what Bob meant. But I could be wrong. :-)

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Took it as "American Association of Useful Professors to advance global Marxism"

MouthBQ98 said:

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I'm getting rather tired of the unassailable and sanctimonious university professor BS. The students are customers. The profs are employees. I see the nature of the relationship should be somewhat different than it has been.

There is vastly too much deference to the classical master/apprentice relationship. Yes, there should be respect but it should be mutual and in the interest of conveying topical knowledge.

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So much that. Its why tenure so out line now. The supplier / customer relationship it de-facto is now has no equivalent of an immune supplier of bad product.

MouthBQ98 said:

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I'm getting rather tired of the unassailable and sanctimonious university professor BS. The students are customers. The profs are employees. I see the nature of the relationship should be somewhat different than it has been.

There is vastly too much deference to the classical master/apprentice relationship. Yes, there should be respect but it should be mutual and in the interest of conveying topical knowledge.

---

This is why I'm another thread I proposed that all faculty need to have a minimum of five years of non-teaching, non-research, experience before they get hired so that they understand what it means to work for a living outside academia. You know, the thing they are supposed to be training college students to do

Burdizzo said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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I'm getting rather tired of the unassailable and sanctimonious university professor BS. The students are customers. The profs are employees. I see the nature of the relationship should be somewhat different than it has been.

There is vastly too much deference to the classical master/apprentice relationship. Yes, there should be respect but it should be mutual and in the interest of conveying topical knowledge.

---

This is why I'm another thread I proposed that all faculty need to have a minimum of five years of non-teaching, non-research, experience before they get hired so that they understand what it means to work for a living outside academia. You know, the thing they are supposed to be training college students to do

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My best profs had been in the world before they began teaching.

MouthBQ98 said:

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I'm getting rather tired of the unassailable and sanctimonious university professor BS. The students are customers. The profs are employees. I see the nature of the relationship should be somewhat different than it has been.

There is vastly too much deference to the classical master/apprentice relationship. Yes, there should be respect but it should be mutual and in the interest of conveying topical knowledge.

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Academic RESPONSIBILITY >> Academic "freedom"

Anyone asking to shape youngsters who doesn't recognize that the job subordinates them to the needs of their pupils and institutional mission… doesn't belong in a classroom.

Get Off My Lawn said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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I'm getting rather tired of the unassailable and sanctimonious university professor BS. The students are customers. The profs are employees. I see the nature of the relationship should be somewhat different than it has been.

There is vastly too much deference to the classical master/apprentice relationship. Yes, there should be respect but it should be mutual and in the interest of conveying topical knowledge.

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Academic RESPONSIBILITY >> Academic "freedom"

Anyone asking to shape youngsters who doesn't recognize that the job subordinates them to the needs of their pupils and institutional mission… doesn't belong in a classroom.

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THIS. And would argue similar should apply the more highly placed or legacy "Fourth Estate."

University faculty and administrators are among the most worthwhile people in America.

Burdizzo said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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I'm getting rather tired of the unassailable and sanctimonious university professor BS. The students are customers. The profs are employees. I see the nature of the relationship should be somewhat different than it has been.

There is vastly too much deference to the classical master/apprentice relationship. Yes, there should be respect but it should be mutual and in the interest of conveying topical knowledge.

---

This is why I'm another thread I proposed that all faculty need to have a minimum of five years of non-teaching, non-research, experience before they get hired so that they understand what it means to work for a living outside academia. You know, the thing they are supposed to be training college students to do

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Sort of like the best officers are Mustangs.

Here's a question, and it applies also to MSM like CNN. Why is there so much formal tolerance for Marxism and things like CRT and yet fascism is this super boogie-man when Marxism is not?

Consider: Van Jones is a declared communist and routinely spouts that point of view on a CNN panel. Why is there not a fascist point of view heard formally if you are going to allow that?

Same with college professors and faculty -- so many openly Marxist or leaning that way permitted and encouraged. Why no examples of fascist ones?

Read careful here, set emotion aside. Simply a thought experiment:

If you exclude Nazi Germany from fascism's record,
and to be be fair in turn
exclude Soviet Union or Mao's China (you can only pick one) from communism's record then:
Fascism's record is better and does not hold a candle to the horror of communism and its results and living under such.

Soo... why all the formal toleration and acceptance of communism when it is worse?

The condemnation of fascism by Western values is absolutely valid -- but why is a mulligan given to communism by both Academia and the MSM, and recently, an admin or two?

Asking as seriously as possible, McCarthy implications aside -- why is this so allowed today. Why are both not equally condemned?