Impact of Appeals Court overturning Trump tariffs?

5,892 Views | 79 Replies | Last: 4 mo ago by BigRobSA
YouBet
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shiftyandquick said:

Highway6 said:

Ironic that it's not constitutional to impose tariffs on our trade partners that tariff our goods, but it's a-ok for our government to tax the living **** out of US citizens and businesses

so you want a king. Who rules by fiat, and not by laws passed by congress.


Congress has abdicated its responsibility and accountability.

See spending and Debt of which the Democrats are proud to increase at every opportunity and the Republicans do so with feigned displeasure.

See all of the insanity that the Biden admin put in place of which many of Trump's EO's were strictly to rescind.
Highway6
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shiftyandquick said:

Highway6 said:

Ironic that it's not constitutional to impose tariffs on our trade partners that tariff our goods, but it's a-ok for our government to tax the living **** out of US citizens and businesses

so you want a king. Who rules by fiat, and not by laws passed by congress.

No I don't want a king, and you are totally missing the point
BMX Bandit
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Can you explain you point? Because your post doesn't make any sense

Quote:

Ironic that it's not constitutional to impose tariffs on our trade partners that tariff our goods,


It is constitutional to impose tariffs. A president can't don't unilaterally and there are laws in place on how they act enacted

Quote:

but it's a-ok for our government to tax the living **** out of US citizens and businesses



Just like tariffs, the president can't unilaterally tax US citizens. There are laws in place….
P.H. Dexippus
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Ellis Wyatt said:

What has Congress passed? At all?

It's a completely dysfunctional body.

As it was intended. If Congress doesn't find trade "deficits" to be a pressing national concern (which they aren't), then they probably won't pass legislation codifying the tariffs.

Congress is worthless, but a lot of that is a feature not a bug.
ts5641
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It's amazing federal judges are still making the decisions on how the country should be run.
Didn't the USSC rule on this a couple months ago saying random federal judges can't do this unilaterally for nationwide issues?
Houston Lee
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I don't care if the courts end up blocking Trump's tariffs. Does Trump fully understand tariffs? Sure he does. But, he knows more about how other countries fear them. He is using the tariffs as a negotiating tool vs other countries and companies.

-He wants the companies to make their stuff in the USA
-He wants other countries to accept the sales of more US goods and he is also using the threat of tariffs to help end wars or do other things that are in our best interest.

The Trump tariffs and his use of them have been brilliant.

Highway6
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BMX Bandit said:

Can you explain you point? Because your post doesn't make any sense

Quote:

Ironic that it's not constitutional to impose tariffs on our trade partners that tariff our goods,


It is constitutional to impose tariffs. A president can't don't unilaterally and there are laws in place on how they act enacted

Quote:

but it's a-ok for our government to tax the living **** out of US citizens and businesses



Just like tariffs, the president can't unilaterally tax US citizens. There are laws in place….

A strong case can be made that income tax is unconstitutional, but then politicians have been trampling the Constitution for decades
MemphisAg1
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ts5641 said:

It's amazing federal judges are still making the decisions on how the country should be run.
Didn't the USSC rule on this a couple months ago saying random federal judges can't do this unilaterally for nationwide issues?

This is different. A business impacted by the tariffs sued Trump claiming he didn't have authority under the law he cited to implement such sweeping tariffs. The case went to the International Court of Trade in Wash, DC before a panel of nine judges. They agreed with the plaintiff but stayed their decision to allow Trump to appeal.

He did, and this latest verdict is from the DC Court of Appeals, a panel of eleven judges, who agreed with the lower court in a 7-4 decision. They also stayed their decision to allow Trump to appeal to the Supreme Court, which he surely will do.

So far, the case has been heard before 20 judges and the majority of them agreed Trump exceeded his authority with these massive, sweeping tariffs where he's trying to reorder global trade.

I would bet the Supreme Court upholds the appeals court verdict on the "big questions" principle, meaning when the president tries to do something that's a stretch from how the law was written, the Court usually reins in the president and says issues of major significance to the country need to be decided by Congress, a body of 535 elected representatives, instead of one person in the White House.

They did this to Biden when he tried to stretch existing laws to forgive student loans on a massive scale. The Court said "not so fast"... a decision of that magnitude needs to come from Congress. If the law clearly gave Biden or Trump the authority to implement their decisions, the courts would have upheld them. But in this case, the law that Trump referenced for his authority didn't even mention tariffs.

He tried using general language about "regulating trade" during an emergency as his justification. It's a bit of a stretch to classify our current global trade as an "emergency," as well as interpreting "regulating trade" to mean massive tariffs applied against the rest of the world that are disrupting the US economy on a large scale... some good and some bad, but nonetheless massive disruption.

In their ruling, the DC Court of Appeals claimed that tariffs are a tax, and the Constitution exclusively grants taxing power to Congress, not the president.
BMX Bandit
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ts5641 said:


Didn't the USSC rule on this a couple months ago saying random federal judges can't do this unilaterally for nationwide issues?


As to the issues here, No.
BMX Bandit
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Quote:

A strong case can be made that income tax is unconstitutiona


No, there really can't.

Before the 16th amendment sure. But not anymore
Highway6
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BMX Bandit said:

Quote:

A strong case can be made that income tax is unconstitutiona


No, there really can't.

Before the 16th amendment sure. But not anymore

Yes, but the 16th amendment was never properly ratified. But hey, think of all the things that have been done with that money to make your life and my life better. Oh, never mind
Dirty Bird
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Actual Talking Thermos said:

It's incredible how obsessed he is with implementing a policy he fundamentally understands so poorly. From evidently not knowing the difference between a trade deficit and a tariff imposed by another country to apparently sincerely believing the exporter pays the tariff not the purchaser on the importing end.

And you don't understand supply and demand due to price increases. Tariffs are absorbed by all 3 parties. Exporter, Importer, End Consumer.

We have got to figure out a way to balance trade. If not, the wealth of the US continues to gradually strip away.
BMX Bandit
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"Not properly ratified" is very fake news.
2023NCAggies
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infinity ag said:

Well, what happens now?
Are the tariffs dead in the water?

Trump and his team have until OCT 14th to make a case in front of the SC, he has free reign until then

SC will overturn the decision most likely
Apollo79
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Just curios Biden had tariffs in place specifically on China were those un-constitutional how come no one sued him and his admin?
Apollo79
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Dirty Bird said:

Actual Talking Thermos said:

It's incredible how obsessed he is with implementing a policy he fundamentally understands so poorly. From evidently not knowing the difference between a trade deficit and a tariff imposed by another country to apparently sincerely believing the exporter pays the tariff not the purchaser on the importing end.

And you don't understand supply and demand due to price increases. Tariffs are absorbed by all 3 parties. Exporter, Importer, End Consumer.

We have got to figure out a way to balance trade. If not, the wealth of the US continues to gradually strip away.

Tariffs and their use in trade with other countries is too nuanced for your average f16 poster.
YouBet
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Apollo79 said:

Just curios Biden had tariffs in place specifically on China were those un-constitutional how come no one sued him and his admin?


This goes back to Trumps May announcement. Originally, we were just going to do reciprocal tariffs which are logical. He expanded this to be global, in effect....thereby punishing some countries who didn't even have a trade imbalance with us. As someone else posted, this is larger than just tariffs because he's trying to reshape global trade.

This was another salvo in the early de-globalization movement which began in earnest with COVID. That is the backdrop of tariffs that most people don't realize or ignore. We can certainly debate the efficacy of these tariffs, but that's the background story here.
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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BMX Bandit said:

"Not properly ratified" is very fake news.


He saw a video and wants to share it with you. Just be open minded when watching it.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
MaroonStain
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Houston Lee said:

I don't care if the courts end up blocking Trump's tariffs. Does Trump fully understand tariffs? Sure he does. But, he knows more about how other countries fear them. He is using the tariffs as a negotiating tool vs other countries and companies.

-He wants the companies to make their stuff in the USA
-He wants other countries to accept the sales of more US goods and he is also using the threat of tariffs to help end wars or do other things that are in our best interest.

The Trump tariffs and his use of them have been brilliant.




This poster understands Trump's intent and motive. The rest of this thread is conjecture and flailing of arms in the streets.
kb2001
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dmart90 said:

He usurped Congressional power to implement tariffs. And Congress allowed it.

Bad Trump. Bad Congress!

Congress granted that power to the executive branch in the 70s.
LOYAL AG
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Highway6 said:

agsalaska said:

Highway6 said:

Ironic that it's not constitutional to impose tariffs on our trade partners that tariff our goods, but it's a-ok for our government to tax the living **** out of US citizens and businesses


Imposing tariffs is absolutely constitutional. Just not the way Trump is trying to do it.

If Trump tried by emergency order to tax US citizens that would also be unconstitutional.




Right, but our income tax was started to fund the military in WW1. I think that ended about 100 years ago


Huh? That doesn't even make sense. The 16th Amendment passed Congress in 1909 and was ratified by the states in early 1913. WWI started well over a year later.
techno-ag
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Houston Lee said:

I don't care if the courts end up blocking Trump's tariffs. Does Trump fully understand tariffs? Sure he does. But, he knows more about how other countries fear them. He is using the tariffs as a negotiating tool vs other countries and companies.

-He wants the companies to make their stuff in the USA
-He wants other countries to accept the sales of more US goods and he is also using the threat of tariffs to help end wars or do other things that are in our best interest.

The Trump tariffs and his use of them have been brilliant.



The left cannot kill the Spirit of Charlie Kirk.
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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LOYAL AG said:

Highway6 said:

agsalaska said:

Highway6 said:

Ironic that it's not constitutional to impose tariffs on our trade partners that tariff our goods, but it's a-ok for our government to tax the living **** out of US citizens and businesses


Imposing tariffs is absolutely constitutional. Just not the way Trump is trying to do it.

If Trump tried by emergency order to tax US citizens that would also be unconstitutional.




Right, but our income tax was started to fund the military in WW1. I think that ended about 100 years ago


Huh? That doesn't even make sense. The 16th Amendment passed Congress in 1909 and was ratified by the states in early 1913. WWI started well over a year later.


I think he confused WW1 and the Civil War.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
Houston Lee
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infinity ag
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techno-ag
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He didn't ignore the court. The court is letting them stand until SCOTUS hears the case.
The left cannot kill the Spirit of Charlie Kirk.
MemphisAg1
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That's cheap clickbait that is wrong. The Appeal Court stayed the mandate on their ruling, meaning the tariffs can stay in effect until the Supreme Court either decides not to take the case, or takes it and makes a ruling.

Has nothing to do with Trump "ignoring" the courts.
BigRobSA
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infinity ag said:




One of the dumbest arguments out there.

"Because they're ****ing morons."

Also...

"Why are MUCH weaker, POS, economies doing it?"
infinity ag
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BigRobSA said:

infinity ag said:




One of the dumbest arguments out there.

"Because they're ****ing morons."

Also...

"Why are MUCH weaker, POS, economies doing it?"


170 countries are morons and you are the only smart one?

Got it.

You must be a CEO.
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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How does one ignore something that was stated by the court?
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
Apollo79
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BigRobSA said:

infinity ag said:




One of the dumbest arguments out there.

"Because they're ****ing morons."

Also...

"Why are MUCH weaker, POS, economies doing it?"


It's not because we the US citizens pays to enrich those countries, what's good for me is good for thee
BigRobSA
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infinity ag said:

BigRobSA said:

infinity ag said:




One of the dumbest arguments out there.

"Because they're ****ing morons."

Also...

"Why are MUCH weaker, POS, economies doing it?"


170 countries are morons and you are the only smart one?

Got it.

You must be a CEO.


H1B at that!!!

We're the strongest economy in history and the next strongest is a distant, distant second. We manufacture more now, even with our idiotic govt in the way, than we ever have.

We've done it right, evidently, as evidenced by the aforementioned.
Apollo79
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infinity ag said:

BigRobSA said:

infinity ag said:




One of the dumbest arguments out there.

"Because they're ****ing morons."

Also...

"Why are MUCH weaker, POS, economies doing it?"


170 countries are morons and you are the only smart one?

Got it.

You must be a CEO.



Lol
BigRobSA
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Apollo79 said:

BigRobSA said:

infinity ag said:




One of the dumbest arguments out there.

"Because they're ****ing morons."

Also...

"Why are MUCH weaker, POS, economies doing it?"


It's not because we the US citizens pays to enrich those countries, what's good for me is good for thee


LOLwut?

Their citizens are paying to enrich them. Not us. You don't even understand tariffs.
Apollo79
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BigRobSA said:

infinity ag said:

BigRobSA said:

infinity ag said:




One of the dumbest arguments out there.

"Because they're ****ing morons."

Also...

"Why are MUCH weaker, POS, economies doing it?"


170 countries are morons and you are the only smart one?

Got it.

You must be a CEO.


H1B at that!!!

We're the strongest economy in history and the next strongest is a distant, distant second. We manufacture more now, even with our idiotic govt in the way, than we ever have.

We've done it right, evidently, as evidenced by the aforementioned.


Weird because this board says we are on the brink of financial Armageddon and the dollar is collapsing
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