torrid said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

---

torrid, this issue has NOTHING to do with illegals. Please don't muddy the waters.

This is a problem with LEGAL immigration - when a trickle becomes a flood leading to an invasion.

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

But it's not merit based because it's a lottery and filled with corruption and scams. The people were getting are not the best and brightest and one or two exceptions does not change that.

I'm sick and tired of having to Press 1 for broken English. Every single call its "dank you for calling eighty and D"

For once I agree with him, and I will give credit where credit is due.

Notice how he mentions when you factor in the Green Card, it brings the total into the 3 million range which agrees with my totals.

What he did not mention is there are 5,192,890 computer and math…

— Virgil Bierschwale (@VBierschwale) August 19, 2025

The problem is far worse than people think.

torrid said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

---

When the town you grew up in becomes demographically Indian, does it really matter if they came here legally or illegally?

As long as we're legally erecting 100 foot statues of demon gods in Sugar Land, TX; I'm fine with it.

Brother Shamus said:

---

Nothing about that resume is impressive - plenty of Americans with great credentials too. But hey - keep it up with hiring Indians.

---

I didn't give you the resume or tell you anything but very general facts about the person so that's a foolish statement. I'm not going to go into specific details on a random internet board because I like having a job and that wouldn't be appropriate. If you think I want to have to work with immigration attorneys and wait 2 months to hire the guy vs a citizen or GC holder that I don't have to deal with any of that with though believe what you may. Visas are a pain in the ass but often times they are some of the best talent in the fields I work in. There are long term ways to fix that in terms of reforming what we allow Universities to do as I mentioned as well as some of the other reforms but businesses can't sit around waiting for the world to change. They need to hire the best talent or get crushed by someone who will.

My main point though is saying that we should completely get rid of H-1s or visas for well educated STEM folks that are working in some of the most in demand fields is not practical or smart. We need reform but if we try turning that spigot off immediately and without considering some of the folks we are cutting off or the ramifications of that is foolish. We need serious reforms (I listed quite a few suggestions) but just doing away with all immigration essentially is crazy and will backfire, badly.

samurai_science said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

But it's not merit based because it's a lottery and filled with corruption and scams. The people were getting are not the best and brightest and one or two exceptions does not change that.

---

Which is why I have repeatedly said that we should have a merit based system and did so in this thread.

Cromagnum said:

---

I'm sick and tired of having to Press 1 for broken English. Every single call its "dank you for calling eighty and D"

---

I feel your pain.

But who is to blame? Satish in Bengalore?

No. He is just doing the job he's gotten.

Blame Steve Johnson, the CEO of AT&T. And John Smith, the President of the United States. And of course funded and lobbied by Boomers.

The problem is within. Which is why it is easier to fix. We just have to recognize it.

infinity ag said:

---

torrid said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

---

torrid, this issue has NOTHING to do with illegals. Please don't muddy the waters.

This is a problem with LEGAL immigration - when a trickle becomes a flood leading to an invasion.

---

"invasion" of legal immigration. You need to be more worried about the leeches already inside your house.

infinity ag said:

---

Cromagnum said:

---

I'm sick and tired of having to Press 1 for broken English. Every single call its "dank you for calling eighty and D"

---

I feel your pain.

But who is to blame? Satish in Bengalore?

No. He is just doing the job he's gotten.

Blame Steve Johnson, the CEO of AT&T. And John Smith, the President of the United States. And of course funded and lobbied by Boomers.

The problem is within. Which is why it is easier to fix. We just have to recognize it.

---

There is no will to fix it. You've said it in this thread, and we've discussed it in others- the politicians are controlled by corporate interests. Neither party works for the citizens primarily, and any benefit we get from their policies is incidental.

aggie93 said:

---

samurai_science said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

But it's not merit based because it's a lottery and filled with corruption and scams. The people were getting are not the best and brightest and one or two exceptions does not change that.

---

Which is why I have repeatedly said that we should have a merit based system and did so in this thread.

---

"Merit based" sounds good and very conservatey but it has its limits too.

Would you pay the neighbor kid's tuition just because he is a genius and your kid is a lazy knucklehead?
I am sure you would not. It is your job to guide your kid to the best outcome possible.

The same logic applies here, we have to take care and encourage our own citizens to work hard and get better and compete and give them the opportunities. That is all missing right now for Americans and much easier for Indians.

"Merit based" is a very dangerous term if you don't define it. Indians love to use that to prove how they are smart and Indians are dunderheads.

tysker said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

torrid said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

---

torrid, this issue has NOTHING to do with illegals. Please don't muddy the waters.

This is a problem with LEGAL immigration - when a trickle becomes a flood leading to an invasion.

---

"invasion" of legal immigration. You need to be more worried about the leeches already inside your house.

---

Europe got flooded by legal immigration from the middle east and africa. It's absolutely an invasion; and many parts of Europe do not look it Europe anymore.

tysker said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

torrid said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

---

torrid, this issue has NOTHING to do with illegals. Please don't muddy the waters.

This is a problem with LEGAL immigration - when a trickle becomes a flood leading to an invasion.

---

"invasion" of legal immigration. You need to be more worried about the leeches already inside your house.

---

I honestly don't understand what you are giggling about.

If you are making a point, then be clear about it. Do you agree or disagree with my post?

Keyno said:

---

torrid said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

---

When the town you grew up in becomes demographically Indian, does it really matter if they came here legally or illegally?

---

Some might refer to that as gentrification

Limit the foreign hires to the irreplaceable top 5%. The remaining 95% of jobs should be filled by Americans with STEM degrees. The corporations claiming they can't find enough Americans with specialized skills are looking to decrease labor costs by gaming the H-1B visa system.

Remember when the Great Replacement was a conspiracy theory? Pepperidge Farms remembers…

infinity ag said:

---

tysker said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

torrid said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

---

torrid, this issue has NOTHING to do with illegals. Please don't muddy the waters.

This is a problem with LEGAL immigration - when a trickle becomes a flood leading to an invasion.

---

"invasion" of legal immigration. You need to be more worried about the leeches already inside your house.

---

I honestly don't understand what you are giggling about.

If you are making a point, then be clear about it. Do you agree or disagree with my post?

---

Calling something both "legal" and an "invasion" is contradictory on its face

Keyno said:

---

tysker said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

torrid said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

---

torrid, this issue has NOTHING to do with illegals. Please don't muddy the waters.

This is a problem with LEGAL immigration - when a trickle becomes a flood leading to an invasion.

---

"invasion" of legal immigration. You need to be more worried about the leeches already inside your house.

---

Europe got flooded by legal immigration from the middle east and africa. It's absolutely an invasion; and many parts of Europe do not look it Europe anymore.

---

And which parts are those?
I'm not disputing that there are immigration problems throughout many cities and neighborhoods within European countries, but which countries no longer reflect the same cultural heritage as a nation?

Friend of mine went under cover and called one of these job ads from a facebook group. pic.twitter.com/PfdMGQbe0L

— LombardTrucking 🇮🇹🇺🇸 (@LombardTrucking) August 20, 2025

Here is how they are scamming the system and violating the law for trucking.

I hope they throw the guy into prison.

He must not be allowed to just run away to India or deactivate his Linkedin.

These Indian VPs have corps in their relative's names and approve H1Bs from these companies only and take a cut which is paid in Indian Rupees in India to avoid being detected. This particular Walmart guy was taking kickbacks from placement of 1200 workers!! All of whom just got canned too.

tysker said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

tysker said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

torrid said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

---

torrid, this issue has NOTHING to do with illegals. Please don't muddy the waters.

This is a problem with LEGAL immigration - when a trickle becomes a flood leading to an invasion.

---

"invasion" of legal immigration. You need to be more worried about the leeches already inside your house.

---

I honestly don't understand what you are giggling about.

If you are making a point, then be clear about it. Do you agree or disagree with my post?

---

Calling something both "legal" and an "invasion" is contradictory on its face

---

It is not. Think about it harder.

Keyno said:

---

torrid said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

---

When the town you grew up in becomes demographically Indian, does it really matter if they came here legally or illegally?

---

Thank you, this is what this thread is really all about. We don't like Indians.

torrid said:

---

Keyno said:

---

torrid said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

---

When the town you grew up in becomes demographically Indian, does it really matter if they came here legally or illegally?

---

Thank you, this is what this thread is really all about. We don't like Indians.

---

Not necessarily. You could interchange Indian with any foreign demographic. Changing the demographics of your towns changes the towns.

Keyno said:

---

torrid said:

---

Keyno said:

---

torrid said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

---

When the town you grew up in becomes demographically Indian, does it really matter if they came here legally or illegally?

---

Thank you, this is what this thread is really all about. We don't like Indians.

---

Not necessarily. You could interchange Indian with any foreign demographic. Changing the demographics of your towns changes the towns.

---

This is true. When you replace the entire population it is fundamentally something different. Replace all of Japan with Indians and it just becomes India 2.0. It will not remain Japan. Same thing applies here.

torrid said:

---

Keyno said:

---

torrid said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

---

When the town you grew up in becomes demographically Indian, does it really matter if they came here legally or illegally?

---

Thank you, this is what this thread is really all about. We don't like Indians.

---

The Chinese are abusing it too just not as badly. Unfortunately for us, the vast majority of Chinese are likely spies and committing espionage.

We have a really bad developing issue here.

aggie93 said:

---

I've always avoided H-1's when I can but the reality is some of the best talent is absolutely on H-1 and they are willing to work virtually unlimited hours and willing to move anywhere in the US.

---

They are motivated to work extra hours or move to BFE by the lack of leverage in the job market.

torrid said:

---

Keyno said:

---

torrid said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

---

When the town you grew up in becomes demographically Indian, does it really matter if they came here legally or illegally?

---

Thank you, this is what this thread is really all about. We don't like Indians.

---

Stop being ridiculous.

We don't like ANYONE invading us and culturally taking over through numbers. Doesn't matter if they are Indians or Nigerians or Brazilians.

infinity ag said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

samurai_science said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

But it's not merit based because it's a lottery and filled with corruption and scams. The people were getting are not the best and brightest and one or two exceptions does not change that.

---

Which is why I have repeatedly said that we should have a merit based system and did so in this thread.

---

"Merit based" sounds good and very conservatey but it has its limits too.

Would you pay the neighbor kid's tuition just because he is a genius and your kid is a lazy knucklehead?
I am sure you would not. It is your job to guide your kid to the best outcome possible.

The same logic applies here, we have to take care and encourage our own citizens to work hard and get better and compete and give them the opportunities. That is all missing right now for Americans and much easier for Indians.

"Merit based" is a very dangerous term if you don't define it. Indians love to use that to prove how they are smart and Indians are dunderheads.

---

It's certainly no panacea and there needs to be protections. My point is that merit based certainly is better than the idiotic lottery we have. At least with merit you are looking to give visas to the best talent in the areas that are most in demand vs having a low bar and just letting everyone above that bar spin the wheel.

I'm also a huge advocate for encouraging US based STEM skills and trade skills, especially for young boys since most of the programs tend to favor women.

Not really following your kid's tuition example. I certainly don't think we should be paying for foreigners to come here and get a free education. I want to get the best talent in the areas we need and charge the crap out of them to live here, even better if that money is being spent to provide programs or incentives for US Citizens to learn the same skills.

I do think it is valid as well to look at the cultural differences honestly between Indian families and most American families. I joked with an Indian friend long ago that he said "In India you get lots of choices, you get to study to be an Engineer or a Doctor" as he laughed. He was glad his son was majoring in business and following his real passion. The pressure to perform and get into a US school is immense and to fail to do so means you are failing your family which has much graver implications than most Americans understand. That doesn't mean we need to have them all come here or have any obligation to create those opportunities but it does create some very smart and very hard working people in STEM.

I also can see that if we don't allow the best and brightest to come here they will go elsewhere and the companies that are trying to win the war for talent will figure out a way to get them. That's why I prefer reform to an extreme action of cutting off the program completely. We have a lot of problems we need to fix here in the meantime and there are some really bad actors who profit off of the current system such as Universities that loves that sweet full tuition money for Grad students, consulting companies, some F500's, and various others. We should target things that incentivize people to use visas and make it expensive, limited, and difficult. We need to incentivize hiring US citizens and training them and especially young males who have been pushed to the curb for a generation.

It can't all be fixed with a wave of the hand though, we didn't get here overnight and we can't fix it overnight either.

McNasty said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

I've always avoided H-1's when I can but the reality is some of the best talent is absolutely on H-1 and they are willing to work virtually unlimited hours and willing to move anywhere in the US.

---

They are motivated to work extra hours or move to BFE by the lack of leverage in the job market.

---

That's part of it for sure. The other part is they are here to work and they don't have a connection to a particular part of the country in most cases. If you are from Bangalore and went to school in Atlanta to get your Masters do you really care much if you are living in Boston or the Bay Area or Dallas? Might have a preference but your roots are shallow. Same goes for Americans that live abroad, they are much more likely to move from one place to another than a native for the same reasons.

That said if you are on H-1B you don't want to lose your job and potentially get deported so you are going to do what you need to do to stay employed.

infinity ag said:

---

torrid said:

---

Keyno said:

---

torrid said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

---

When the town you grew up in becomes demographically Indian, does it really matter if they came here legally or illegally?

---

Thank you, this is what this thread is really all about. We don't like Indians.

---

Stop being ridiculous.

We don't like ANYONE invading us and culturally taking over through numbers. Doesn't matter if they are Indians or Nigerians or Brazilians.

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Or Californians? Or Jews, too, right? Are you familiar with the Hasidic Jews "invading" Rockland County?

aggie93 said:

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infinity ag said:

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aggie93 said:

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samurai_science said:

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aggie93 said:

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There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

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But it's not merit based because it's a lottery and filled with corruption and scams. The people were getting are not the best and brightest and one or two exceptions does not change that.

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Which is why I have repeatedly said that we should have a merit based system and did so in this thread.

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"Merit based" sounds good and very conservatey but it has its limits too.

Would you pay the neighbor kid's tuition just because he is a genius and your kid is a lazy knucklehead?
I am sure you would not. It is your job to guide your kid to the best outcome possible.

The same logic applies here, we have to take care and encourage our own citizens to work hard and get better and compete and give them the opportunities. That is all missing right now for Americans and much easier for Indians.

"Merit based" is a very dangerous term if you don't define it. Indians love to use that to prove how they are smart and Indians are dunderheads.

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It's certainly no panacea and there needs to be protections. My point is that merit based certainly is better than the idiotic lottery we have. At least with merit you are looking to give visas to the best talent in the areas that are most in demand vs having a low bar and just letting everyone above that bar spin the wheel.

I'm also a huge advocate for encouraging US based STEM skills and trade skills, especially for young boys since most of the programs tend to favor women.

Not really following your kid's tuition example. I certainly don't think we should be paying for foreigners to come here and get a free education. I want to get the best talent in the areas we need and charge the crap out of them to live here, even better if that money is being spent to provide programs or incentives for US Citizens to learn the same skills.

I do think it is valid as well to look at the cultural differences honestly between Indian families and most American families. I joked with an Indian friend long ago that he said "In India you get lots of choices, you get to study to be an Engineer or a Doctor" as he laughed. He was glad his son was majoring in business and following his real passion. The pressure to perform and get into a US school is immense and to fail to do so means you are failing your family which has much graver implications than most Americans understand. That doesn't mean we need to have them all come here or have any obligation to create those opportunities but it does create some very smart and very hard working people in STEM.

I also can see that if we don't allow the best and brightest to come here they will go elsewhere and the companies that are trying to win the war for talent will figure out a way to get them. That's why I prefer reform to an extreme action of cutting off the program completely. We have a lot of problems we need to fix here in the meantime and there are some really bad actors who profit off of the current system such as Universities that loves that sweet full tuition money for Grad students, consulting companies, some F500's, and various others. We should target things that incentivize people to use visas and make it expensive, limited, and difficult. We need to incentivize hiring US citizens and training them and especially young males who have been pushed to the curb for a generation.

It can't all be fixed with a wave of the hand though, we didn't get here overnight and we can't fix it overnight either.

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OK, I get it. I don't think there is anything fundamentally different in our positions on this.

I hope to convey through my analogy that while merit is fine, relationships trump that in this case. If I have $150k to spend on tuition, I will spend it on my kid and send him to college and guide him and hope that he makes something of himself. I will not spend it on the neighbor's kid who is a genius but lacking in funds. I will help the neighbor's kid only if I have extra cash and I feel like helping someone after my son's tuition has been paid. My relationship to my son trumps merit (the neighbor kid being smarter). Similarly we have to do what it takes to build up expertise in the US, not just roll over and say "we gotz no skillz" like many even in TA sadly do.

Earlier we were allowing mostly the best and brightest from India, from the IITs and other good schools. Now it is a free for all, people with fake resumes from fake colleges. It is purely a scam to lower US wages which will result in our towns and cities dying in the long run.

Thanks for clarifying.

tysker said:

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infinity ag said:

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torrid said:

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Keyno said:

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torrid said:

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aggie93 said:

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There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

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I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

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When the town you grew up in becomes demographically Indian, does it really matter if they came here legally or illegally?

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Thank you, this is what this thread is really all about. We don't like Indians.

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Stop being ridiculous.

We don't like ANYONE invading us and culturally taking over through numbers. Doesn't matter if they are Indians or Nigerians or Brazilians.

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Or Californians? Or Jews, too, right? Are you familiar with the Hasidic Jews "invading" Rockland County?

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Seriously, are you a woman?

infinity ag said:

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tysker said:

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infinity ag said:

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torrid said:

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Keyno said:

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torrid said:

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aggie93 said:

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There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

---

When the town you grew up in becomes demographically Indian, does it really matter if they came here legally or illegally?

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Thank you, this is what this thread is really all about. We don't like Indians.

---

Stop being ridiculous.

We don't like ANYONE invading us and culturally taking over through numbers. Doesn't matter if they are Indians or Nigerians or Brazilians.

---

Or Californians? Or Jews, too, right? Are you familiar with the Hasidic Jews "invading" Rockland County?

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Seriously, are you a woman?

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No. I'm trying to ascertain which "cultures" you find acceptable for a legal invasion into your community.

tysker said:

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infinity ag said:

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tysker said:

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infinity ag said:

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torrid said:

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Keyno said:

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torrid said:

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aggie93 said:

---

There is a lot of exaggeration in the post above. For instance most people on F-1 are unmarried students so they aren't bringing over family.

That said I'm all for serious reform of H-1B's and other visas to focus on merit and I'm fine with limiting the number by country which is something we have done in the past. America has benefited tremendously by the best and brightest immigrating here whether it is Musk or Einstein or literally millions of others. The key is we need to keep clamping down on the illegal immigration first and foremost and then reforming legal immigration to focus on merit and people that want to assimilate.

---

I agree. The H-1B system needs reform, but this issue seems like a red herring.

Their children are born here, and you may not like that but they are here legally. I think giving these children citizenship is a much different issue from giving citizenship to children of illegal aliens.

---

When the town you grew up in becomes demographically Indian, does it really matter if they came here legally or illegally?

---

Thank you, this is what this thread is really all about. We don't like Indians.

---

Stop being ridiculous.

We don't like ANYONE invading us and culturally taking over through numbers. Doesn't matter if they are Indians or Nigerians or Brazilians.

---

Or Californians? Or Jews, too, right? Are you familiar with the Hasidic Jews "invading" Rockland County?

---

Seriously, are you a woman?

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No. I'm trying to ascertain which "cultures" you find acceptable for a legal invasion into your community.

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You certainly do argue like a woman.
The classic move of putting words in other people's mouths and going "right? right...?" with the fake outrage.