H-1B visa: WH clears rule to replace lottery with wage system

4,588 Views | 73 Replies | Last: 4 mo ago by IIIHorn
Farmer_J
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This is great. Expose the corrupt H1B visa scam.

Average Joe
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IDaggie06 said:

samurai_science said:

Diversity in the workplace is overrated

Diversity is overrated


Diversity in experience and knowledge is definitely not overrated, but I know that's not what you're referring to. The problem is that people believe diversity only means where you were born and what color your skin is.
infinity ag
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Average Joe said:

IDaggie06 said:

samurai_science said:

Diversity in the workplace is overrated

Diversity is overrated


Diversity in experience and knowledge is definitely not overrated, but I know that's not what you're referring to. The problem is that people believe diversity only means where you were born and what color your skin is.


The thing is no one objected to diversity in experience and knowledge. That was never an issue, so is a strawman argument.

Diversity in practice always means sex, race, color, national origin and such static things.
infinity ag
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I am experiencing a surge in interest on Linkedin. Just got a call for an awesome opportunity. I wonder if it is because companies are scared of Trump? It is so ridiculous when citizens of a country have to struggle to get/upgrade jobs but foreigners are welcomed in. No country allows that. We have been such fool to cater to the oligarchs. They are rolling in money while citizens are struggling.
deddog
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infinity ag said:

Get Off My Lawn said:

This line seems completely backward:
Quote:

Big firms could gain, smaller ones may lose

Wouldn't it be the big firms that lose with the gutting of cheap mid-skill foreign labor? How many small businesses actually use H1Bs? It's gotta be a pain and I assume it's predominately large companies who have the scale to see benefit from mechanizing the hiring of foreigners.


Yes, the sentence seems weird.

Big firms like Amazon use them a lot. They will suffer as they don't have as many slaves to work at cheap wages which undercut Americans. They only can afford the really good ones and are okay paying for them (which they could do earlier also). So big firms overall lose.

The smaller ones will lose as they cannot afford the higher threshold of wages, so no H1B slaves at all. Earlier they could afford a few here and there. Small firms also lose.



They'll do what we do which is hire people overseas.
deddog
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Farmer_J said:

This is great. Expose the corrupt H1B visa scam.



I don't think this is true. (i.e. if a US citizen applies for it, they can't issue an H1), unless something recently changed?
infinity ag
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deddog said:

infinity ag said:

Get Off My Lawn said:

This line seems completely backward:
Quote:

Big firms could gain, smaller ones may lose

Wouldn't it be the big firms that lose with the gutting of cheap mid-skill foreign labor? How many small businesses actually use H1Bs? It's gotta be a pain and I assume it's predominately large companies who have the scale to see benefit from mechanizing the hiring of foreigners.


Yes, the sentence seems weird.

Big firms like Amazon use them a lot. They will suffer as they don't have as many slaves to work at cheap wages which undercut Americans. They only can afford the really good ones and are okay paying for them (which they could do earlier also). So big firms overall lose.

The smaller ones will lose as they cannot afford the higher threshold of wages, so no H1B slaves at all. Earlier they could afford a few here and there. Small firms also lose.



They'll do what we do which is hire people overseas.


If there is political will, all this can easily be stopped.
Trump has tariffs and is relentless. Just has to do it.
deddog
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infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

Get Off My Lawn said:

This line seems completely backward:
Quote:

Big firms could gain, smaller ones may lose

Wouldn't it be the big firms that lose with the gutting of cheap mid-skill foreign labor? How many small businesses actually use H1Bs? It's gotta be a pain and I assume it's predominately large companies who have the scale to see benefit from mechanizing the hiring of foreigners.


Yes, the sentence seems weird.

Big firms like Amazon use them a lot. They will suffer as they don't have as many slaves to work at cheap wages which undercut Americans. They only can afford the really good ones and are okay paying for them (which they could do earlier also). So big firms overall lose.

The smaller ones will lose as they cannot afford the higher threshold of wages, so no H1B slaves at all. Earlier they could afford a few here and there. Small firms also lose.



They'll do what we do which is hire people overseas.


If there is political will, all this can easily be stopped.
Trump has tariffs and is relentless. Just has to do it.

I don't think it can be easily stopped. And it will put a large number of american entreupreuners out of business.

Our ability to hire 4-6 developers fairly cheap overseas lets us run our eCommerce business in the US. We employ about 45 people in the US (mostly in our warehouse but also ancillary operations roles).

You could tariff us out of using foreign developers, but it will at best slow our growth, and depending on how severe, put us out of business. Not every company is a mega corporation that can absorb tarriffs. We've already had to change our suppliers twice.
aggie93
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infinity ag said:

Get Off My Lawn said:

This line seems completely backward:
Quote:

Big firms could gain, smaller ones may lose

Wouldn't it be the big firms that lose with the gutting of cheap mid-skill foreign labor? How many small businesses actually use H1Bs? It's gotta be a pain and I assume it's predominately large companies who have the scale to see benefit from mechanizing the hiring of foreigners.


Yes, the sentence seems weird.

Big firms like Amazon use them a lot. They will suffer as they don't have as many slaves to work at cheap wages which undercut Americans. They only can afford the really good ones and are okay paying for them (which they could do earlier also). So big firms overall lose.

The smaller ones will lose as they cannot afford the higher threshold of wages, so no H1B slaves at all. Earlier they could afford a few here and there. Small firms also lose.



Amazon will have almost no impact from this, they are one of the highest paying companies in tech. Same with Google, Microsoft, Apple, Nvidia, AMD, and any of the Elon companies. They don't give a crap about saving money on salaries, they want the best talent and are willing to pay top dollar for it.

The big financial firms, brick and mortar companies, and consulting companies will have to adjust. They are trying to cut operating expenses and don't make their money on their technology.

This is a great step in the right direction. The ways companies will get around it is more offshoring/nearshoring and it will benefit Canada the most. Much easier to get a visa in Canada and then get Citizenship there. Once you have that you can work in the US on TN-1 Visa pretty much anywhere and very easily. I would expect more firms to expand operations in Toronto and BC as well as possibly New Brunswick. Mexico will benefit some but Asians don't really like working there or in Central/South America in general and they aren't as welcoming as Canada.

Companies can always find a way to abuse the system but hopefully this will cut back on the legions of H-1s that have a low grade degree in India and get hired here on H-1 en masse for cost cutting. The other big problem is US Colleges are completely dominated at the Grad Degree level by Asians. They need to limit colleges to no more than 25% foreign students in any major, hell even 50% would be a massive shift. You have many colleges that have CS Graduate programs with no more than a handful of US born students.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
aggie93
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deddog said:

Farmer_J said:

This is great. Expose the corrupt H1B visa scam.



I don't think this is true. (i.e. if a US citizen applies for it, they can't issue an H1), unless something recently changed?

It's not true. The company is required to post it but they don't have to hire someone else. Otherwise you could have a Starbucks barista apply for a C++ programming job and say the company has to hire them over someone with a Masters Degree and 4 years of experience.

One reality that also should be faced is that while there is a LOT of abuse you also have a lot of Asians who are very smart and willing to make sacrifices most US citizens won't. Many don't care about relocation and work hours or work life balance.

Hopefully we can find a sane compromise that cuts out abuse as much as possible and gives favor to US born kids trying to build a career. Something to keep in mind as well is that AI and Robotics are about to turn a lot of industries upside down. It's going to be a wild ride.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
infinity ag
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deddog said:

infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

Get Off My Lawn said:

This line seems completely backward:
Quote:

Big firms could gain, smaller ones may lose

Wouldn't it be the big firms that lose with the gutting of cheap mid-skill foreign labor? How many small businesses actually use H1Bs? It's gotta be a pain and I assume it's predominately large companies who have the scale to see benefit from mechanizing the hiring of foreigners.


Yes, the sentence seems weird.

Big firms like Amazon use them a lot. They will suffer as they don't have as many slaves to work at cheap wages which undercut Americans. They only can afford the really good ones and are okay paying for them (which they could do earlier also). So big firms overall lose.

The smaller ones will lose as they cannot afford the higher threshold of wages, so no H1B slaves at all. Earlier they could afford a few here and there. Small firms also lose.



They'll do what we do which is hire people overseas.


If there is political will, all this can easily be stopped.
Trump has tariffs and is relentless. Just has to do it.

I don't think it can be easily stopped. And it will put a large number of american entreupreuners out of business.

Our ability to hire 4-6 developers fairly cheap overseas lets us run our eCommerce business in the US. We employ about 45 people in the US (mostly in our warehouse but also ancillary operations roles).

You could tariff us out of using foreign developers, but it will at best slow our growth, and depending on how severe, put us out of business. Not every company is a mega corporation that can absorb tarriffs. We've already had to change our suppliers twice.


The country (or any country) is built for its people, not its corporations. Corporations support the society. So there is no glory if corps make tons of money but the citizens are poor and jobless.

So a good government maintains his balance which is now out of control.

No offense, but how many devs you are able to hire is not the problem of the government or anyone else. Either figure out something that works or go out of business. Maybe you just have a bad business model where you work. The ecosystem will adjust but it will take time. The problem is everyone wants everything painlessly and that cannot happen. Many are resigned to the downhill coasting towards emptying out this country.
infinity ag
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aggie93 said:

infinity ag said:

Get Off My Lawn said:

This line seems completely backward:
Quote:

Big firms could gain, smaller ones may lose

Wouldn't it be the big firms that lose with the gutting of cheap mid-skill foreign labor? How many small businesses actually use H1Bs? It's gotta be a pain and I assume it's predominately large companies who have the scale to see benefit from mechanizing the hiring of foreigners.


Yes, the sentence seems weird.

Big firms like Amazon use them a lot. They will suffer as they don't have as many slaves to work at cheap wages which undercut Americans. They only can afford the really good ones and are okay paying for them (which they could do earlier also). So big firms overall lose.

The smaller ones will lose as they cannot afford the higher threshold of wages, so no H1B slaves at all. Earlier they could afford a few here and there. Small firms also lose.



Amazon will have almost no impact from this, they are one of the highest paying companies in tech. Same with Google, Microsoft, Apple, Nvidia, AMD, and any of the Elon companies. They don't give a crap about saving money on salaries, they want the best talent and are willing to pay top dollar for it.

The big financial firms, brick and mortar companies, and consulting companies will have to adjust. They are trying to cut operating expenses and don't make their money on their technology.

This is a great step in the right direction. The ways companies will get around it is more offshoring/nearshoring and it will benefit Canada the most. Much easier to get a visa in Canada and then get Citizenship there. Once you have that you can work in the US on TN-1 Visa pretty much anywhere and very easily. I would expect more firms to expand operations in Toronto and BC as well as possibly New Brunswick. Mexico will benefit some but Asians don't really like working there or in Central/South America in general and they aren't as welcoming as Canada.

Companies can always find a way to abuse the system but hopefully this will cut back on the legions of H-1s that have a low grade degree in India and get hired here on H-1 en masse for cost cutting. The other big problem is US Colleges are completely dominated at the Grad Degree level by Asians. They need to limit colleges to no more than 25% foreign students in any major, hell even 50% would be a massive shift. You have many colleges that have CS Graduate programs with no more than a handful of US born students.


Corps will definitely try to be clever so it is up to the government to watch and make sure goals are met in real, not just for optics.

Even during my time in the 90s, CS was almost all Asian with a handful of older locals at A&M (grad)

Corps and univs are used to a good life of exploitation and will fight anything which will make their lives harder.
aggie93
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Keyno said:

samurai_science said:

Keyno said:

It's crazy how bad Trump shifted his H1B position since 2016.

Its good to change your position on an issue when you get better information. Good Trump, hopefully he goes even further to stop the corruption.

"I know the H-1B very well. And it's something that I, frankly, use, and I shouldn't be allowed to use it. We shouldn't have it. Very, very bad for workers. And second of all, I think it's very important to say, well, I'm a businessman and I have to do what I have to do. When it's sitting there waiting for you, but it's very bad. It's very bad for business in terms of and it's very bad for our workers and it's unfair for our workers. And we should end it."
Donald J. Trump, CNN Debate, March 10, 2016

If he does this it will effectively "end it" in many ways. The problem isn't that we want to bring over the best talent based on merit, the problem is bringing over mediocre talent to replace US workers. Essentially making the H-1 more like the O-1. It's going to take time.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
Ozzy Osbourne
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chiphijason said:

Canada and parts of Europe already offer more streamlined, merit-driven immigration systems

This is the quote from above. I'd this is what we had instead of whoever decides to walk here immigration would be a non issue.


"Streamlined," yes. "Merit," no. There's a reason that the US "parks" folks who don't hit the visa lotto in Canada and Europe until their application goes through.
Ozzy Osbourne
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deddog said:

Farmer_J said:

This is great. Expose the corrupt H1B visa scam.



I don't think this is true. (i.e. if a US citizen applies for it, they can't issue an H1), unless something recently changed?


They are legally required to consider/interview the citizen candidate, and if they are qualified, hire them. But the hiring managers always game the system to say that the citizen applicant is somehow "unqualified."
bmks270
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deddog said:

infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

Get Off My Lawn said:

This line seems completely backward:
Quote:

Big firms could gain, smaller ones may lose

Wouldn't it be the big firms that lose with the gutting of cheap mid-skill foreign labor? How many small businesses actually use H1Bs? It's gotta be a pain and I assume it's predominately large companies who have the scale to see benefit from mechanizing the hiring of foreigners.


Yes, the sentence seems weird.

Big firms like Amazon use them a lot. They will suffer as they don't have as many slaves to work at cheap wages which undercut Americans. They only can afford the really good ones and are okay paying for them (which they could do earlier also). So big firms overall lose.

The smaller ones will lose as they cannot afford the higher threshold of wages, so no H1B slaves at all. Earlier they could afford a few here and there. Small firms also lose.



They'll do what we do which is hire people overseas.


If there is political will, all this can easily be stopped.
Trump has tariffs and is relentless. Just has to do it.

I don't think it can be easily stopped. And it will put a large number of american entreupreuners out of business.

Our ability to hire 4-6 developers fairly cheap overseas lets us run our eCommerce business in the US. We employ about 45 people in the US (mostly in our warehouse but also ancillary operations roles).

You could tariff us out of using foreign developers, but it will at best slow our growth, and depending on how severe, put us out of business. Not every company is a mega corporation that can absorb tarriffs. We've already had to change our suppliers twice.


How can you afford 45 US laborers but not US developers for simple e-commerce which many US developers can do?
deddog
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infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

Get Off My Lawn said:

This line seems completely backward:
Quote:

Big firms could gain, smaller ones may lose

Wouldn't it be the big firms that lose with the gutting of cheap mid-skill foreign labor? How many small businesses actually use H1Bs? It's gotta be a pain and I assume it's predominately large companies who have the scale to see benefit from mechanizing the hiring of foreigners.


Yes, the sentence seems weird.

Big firms like Amazon use them a lot. They will suffer as they don't have as many slaves to work at cheap wages which undercut Americans. They only can afford the really good ones and are okay paying for them (which they could do earlier also). So big firms overall lose.

The smaller ones will lose as they cannot afford the higher threshold of wages, so no H1B slaves at all. Earlier they could afford a few here and there. Small firms also lose.



They'll do what we do which is hire people overseas.


If there is political will, all this can easily be stopped.
Trump has tariffs and is relentless. Just has to do it.

I don't think it can be easily stopped. And it will put a large number of american entreupreuners out of business.

Our ability to hire 4-6 developers fairly cheap overseas lets us run our eCommerce business in the US. We employ about 45 people in the US (mostly in our warehouse but also ancillary operations roles).

You could tariff us out of using foreign developers, but it will at best slow our growth, and depending on how severe, put us out of business. Not every company is a mega corporation that can absorb tarriffs. We've already had to change our suppliers twice.


The country (or any country) is built for its people, not its corporations. Corporations support the society. So there is no glory if corps make tons of money but the citizens are poor and jobless.

So a good government maintains his balance which is now out of control.

No offense, but how many devs you are able to hire is not the problem of the government or anyone else. Either figure out something that works or go out of business. Maybe you just have a bad business model where you work. The ecosystem will adjust but it will take time. The problem is everyone wants everything painlessly and that cannot happen. Many are resigned to the downhill coasting towards emptying out this country.



Lots of talk. The reality is you don't run a business. That's pretty obvious.
We aren't a corporation. We are an entrepreneur run business that employs more people than you ever will.
We've been featured in plenty of rankings, so its not like we don't know how to run a business.

It's a private business where the owners put in their own money, no loans or VCs.

And we face real challenges that require methodical solutions. Not more flippant regulations so you can feel more secure about your job.
deddog
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bmks270 said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

Get Off My Lawn said:

This line seems completely backward:
Quote:

Big firms could gain, smaller ones may lose

Wouldn't it be the big firms that lose with the gutting of cheap mid-skill foreign labor? How many small businesses actually use H1Bs? It's gotta be a pain and I assume it's predominately large companies who have the scale to see benefit from mechanizing the hiring of foreigners.


Yes, the sentence seems weird.

Big firms like Amazon use them a lot. They will suffer as they don't have as many slaves to work at cheap wages which undercut Americans. They only can afford the really good ones and are okay paying for them (which they could do earlier also). So big firms overall lose.

The smaller ones will lose as they cannot afford the higher threshold of wages, so no H1B slaves at all. Earlier they could afford a few here and there. Small firms also lose.



They'll do what we do which is hire people overseas.


If there is political will, all this can easily be stopped.
Trump has tariffs and is relentless. Just has to do it.

I don't think it can be easily stopped. And it will put a large number of american entreupreuners out of business.

Our ability to hire 4-6 developers fairly cheap overseas lets us run our eCommerce business in the US. We employ about 45 people in the US (mostly in our warehouse but also ancillary operations roles).

You could tariff us out of using foreign developers, but it will at best slow our growth, and depending on how severe, put us out of business. Not every company is a mega corporation that can absorb tarriffs. We've already had to change our suppliers twice.


How can you afford 45 US laborers but not US developers for simple e-commerce which many US developers can do?


We can , but you can have 6 developers for the price of 1. Right now we need more bodies. Our goal is to get to
A point where we can hire US developers , just because of the work ethic and better output.
Not there yet, probably about a year or so away.
torrid
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deddog said:

Farmer_J said:

This is great. Expose the corrupt H1B visa scam.



I don't think this is true. (i.e. if a US citizen applies for it, they can't issue an H1), unless something recently changed?

Applying is not the same thing as being qualified.
Waffledynamics
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STOP MOST ECONOMIC MIGRANTS! Hire Americans or improve their value if they're not good enough. HEAVILY tariff outsourced labor!

Enough is enough! American companies must work for Americans!
Ramdiesel
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deddog said:

infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

Get Off My Lawn said:

This line seems completely backward:
Quote:

Big firms could gain, smaller ones may lose

Wouldn't it be the big firms that lose with the gutting of cheap mid-skill foreign labor? How many small businesses actually use H1Bs? It's gotta be a pain and I assume it's predominately large companies who have the scale to see benefit from mechanizing the hiring of foreigners.


Yes, the sentence seems weird.

Big firms like Amazon use them a lot. They will suffer as they don't have as many slaves to work at cheap wages which undercut Americans. They only can afford the really good ones and are okay paying for them (which they could do earlier also). So big firms overall lose.

The smaller ones will lose as they cannot afford the higher threshold of wages, so no H1B slaves at all. Earlier they could afford a few here and there. Small firms also lose.



They'll do what we do which is hire people overseas.


If there is political will, all this can easily be stopped.
Trump has tariffs and is relentless. Just has to do it.

I don't think it can be easily stopped. And it will put a large number of american entreupreuners out of business.

Our ability to hire 4-6 developers fairly cheap overseas lets us run our eCommerce business in the US. We employ about 45 people in the US (mostly in our warehouse but also ancillary operations roles).

You could tariff us out of using foreign developers, but it will at best slow our growth, and depending on how severe, put us out of business. Not every company is a mega corporation that can absorb tarriffs. We've already had to change our suppliers twice.


The country (or any country) is built for its people, not its corporations. Corporations support the society. So there is no glory if corps make tons of money but the citizens are poor and jobless.

So a good government maintains his balance which is now out of control.

No offense, but how many devs you are able to hire is not the problem of the government or anyone else. Either figure out something that works or go out of business. Maybe you just have a bad business model where you work. The ecosystem will adjust but it will take time. The problem is everyone wants everything painlessly and that cannot happen. Many are resigned to the downhill coasting towards emptying out this country.



Lots of talk. The reality is you don't run a business. That's pretty obvious.
We aren't a corporation. We are an entrepreneur run business that employs more people than you ever will.
We've been featured in plenty of rankings, so its not like we don't know how to run a business.

It's a private business where the owners put in their own money, no loans or VCs.

And we face real challenges that require methodical solutions. Not more flippant regulations so you can feel more secure about your job.


That's a cold take. Hundreds of thousands of US born citizens that have been layed off, even forced to train their foreign replacenents, could probably care less if your company goes out of business. You'll be no more worse off than many thousands of US born citizens that have been laid off while H1B workers don't even have to sweat it or worry about losing their jobs here in the US.
SpreadsheetAg
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If you apply the reasonableness gauge... this makes alot of sense.

Which is more reasonable - to attract and reward visas to people with a very high level of experience and skills? Or do randomly hand out visas like drawing from a raffle cage?

I do wonder how "random" the visas were in the end? Were there low-level bureaucrats scrutinizing visas or backdooring to people they knew? I'd bet money that someone was getting paid to make sure there wasn't as much randomness as was supposed to be there as well.
ts5641
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Trump is busting on India's balls a bit. Using tariffs to get them off Russian oil and now this. Good Trump.
ts5641
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IDaggie06 said:

samurai_science said:

Diversity in the workplace is overrated

Diversity is overrated

Preach! Diversity is not our strength. Diversity is our weakness.
infinity ag
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deddog said:

infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

Get Off My Lawn said:

This line seems completely backward:
Quote:

Big firms could gain, smaller ones may lose

Wouldn't it be the big firms that lose with the gutting of cheap mid-skill foreign labor? How many small businesses actually use H1Bs? It's gotta be a pain and I assume it's predominately large companies who have the scale to see benefit from mechanizing the hiring of foreigners.


Yes, the sentence seems weird.

Big firms like Amazon use them a lot. They will suffer as they don't have as many slaves to work at cheap wages which undercut Americans. They only can afford the really good ones and are okay paying for them (which they could do earlier also). So big firms overall lose.

The smaller ones will lose as they cannot afford the higher threshold of wages, so no H1B slaves at all. Earlier they could afford a few here and there. Small firms also lose.



They'll do what we do which is hire people overseas.


If there is political will, all this can easily be stopped.
Trump has tariffs and is relentless. Just has to do it.

I don't think it can be easily stopped. And it will put a large number of american entreupreuners out of business.

Our ability to hire 4-6 developers fairly cheap overseas lets us run our eCommerce business in the US. We employ about 45 people in the US (mostly in our warehouse but also ancillary operations roles).

You could tariff us out of using foreign developers, but it will at best slow our growth, and depending on how severe, put us out of business. Not every company is a mega corporation that can absorb tarriffs. We've already had to change our suppliers twice.


The country (or any country) is built for its people, not its corporations. Corporations support the society. So there is no glory if corps make tons of money but the citizens are poor and jobless.

So a good government maintains his balance which is now out of control.

No offense, but how many devs you are able to hire is not the problem of the government or anyone else. Either figure out something that works or go out of business. Maybe you just have a bad business model where you work. The ecosystem will adjust but it will take time. The problem is everyone wants everything painlessly and that cannot happen. Many are resigned to the downhill coasting towards emptying out this country.



Lots of talk. The reality is you don't run a business. That's pretty obvious.
We aren't a corporation. We are an entrepreneur run business that employs more people than you ever will.
We've been featured in plenty of rankings, so its not like we don't know how to run a business.

It's a private business where the owners put in their own money, no loans or VCs.

And we face real challenges that require methodical solutions. Not more flippant regulations so you can feel more secure about your job.


The point remains that you are doing it for yourself, no one else. The country isn't obliged to make things better so you make more money.

Ultimately, the rules are the same. Figure it out or exit the industry because your business model isn't working. The US is under no obligation to provide you with H1B slaves so you and your friends can enrich yourselves. Maybe consider moving to Bungalore so you can get all the cheap labor you need?
infinity ag
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Just saw this on Linkedin.

I'd rather Lindsey in the US get a job than Rajesh or Chang. Someone qualified like this should not be homeless in America while immigrants make merry. It's not because Lindsey is "lazy" like some of posters opine. And no, she should be required to do HVAC or become a plumber to survive when her skillset is something else.

If Lindsey gets a job, she pays taxes and the money is used for local infra. If Rajesh/Chang get jobs, they send a portion back to their countries and we lose it forever.

I have been in situations in the past where I show up for an interview and the interviewers are basically yawning through it. Then I don't get the job and find out (through an employee friend) that the job posting was fake, they had an H1B candidate lined up and I was among the Americans interviewed so they can report to the Govt that they could not find anyone and had to hire Rajesh (for low wages).

Our leaders have failed us and we have quietly accepted this as inevitable.

President Trump, the eyes of America are upon you...


aggie93
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infinity ag said:

Just saw this on Linkedin.

I'd rather Lindsey in the US get a job than Rajesh or Chang. Someone qualified like this should not be homeless in America while immigrants make merry. It's not because Lindsey is "lazy" like some of posters opine. And no, she should be required to do HVAC or become a plumber to survive when her skillset is something else.

If Lindsey gets a job, she pays taxes and the money is used for local infra. If Rajesh/Chang get jobs, they send a portion back to their countries and we lose it forever.

I have been in situations in the past where I show up for an interview and the interviewers are basically yawning through it. Then I don't get the job and find out (through an employee friend) that the job posting was fake, they had an H1B candidate lined up and I was among the Americans interviewed so they can report to the Govt that they could not find anyone and had to hire Rajesh (for low wages).

Our leaders have failed us and we have quietly accepted this as inevitable.

President Trump, the eyes of America are upon you...




I've hired hundreds of H-1's and never had to interview a US citizen in order to do so so your story seems awfully suspicious. I always prefer to hire citizens or at least GC holders because it is less hassle, less expensive (H-1s cost thousands of dollars to transfer, a lot more to initiate and a pain in the ass), and they take time. Even an expedited transfer is no less than 6 weeks and often longer. If I have a citizen I don't have to deal with sponsoring I will always hire them. In the end though it's about skills and ability that match what is needed. I hire for companies that are technology driven and pay very well though and they only care about getting the strongest technical person they can.

The woman's story is sad and it may be true. Being a Project Manager with super generic skills like she states (she doesn't mention an industry, companies she worked for, types of projects, etc which are red flags) are less than a dime a dozen. I hate to even open PM reqs because I get flooded. BTW, PM's tend to be citizens and female more than other engineering roles (assuming she is an engineer, she doesn't say). I seriously doubt as a PM she is losing out to jobs to H-1s, if for no other reason communication skills and people skills are key with PM jobs and that obviously favors a citizen.

I'm all for reforming the system and especially going after the people trying to defraud it or abuse it but that only happens if we actually understand the real problems (and there are definitely real problems with the lottery being a significant one). I worry about the number of foreign students in tech in proportion to citizens. I worry about companies having no limits on the number of student visas they can hire as interns since internships are the gateway to experience. I worry about college admissions being so active in recruiting foreign students at the graduate level and using it as a funding source they have become dependent on. I think consulting companies like Tata and Cognizant should be audited and fined into oblivion and no company should be able to have more than 25% of workers on visa.

I also think it is insane that we obsess over trying to push women into engineering and CS jobs often at the expense of men when those women are more likely to end up leaving the field or become PMs like the woman you had an example of above because few women like the tedious detail work, long hours, and lack of social interaction that is what most of those jobs end up being. We need to encourage more US men to get involved in Engineering and CS yet instead they are limited, especially by college admissions and even in High School they will see women and girls with all kinds of encouragement and special attention they will have to work much harder to earn if they are even able to.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Ronald Reagan
deddog
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Ramdiesel said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

Get Off My Lawn said:

This line seems completely backward:
Quote:

Big firms could gain, smaller ones may lose

Wouldn't it be the big firms that lose with the gutting of cheap mid-skill foreign labor? How many small businesses actually use H1Bs? It's gotta be a pain and I assume it's predominately large companies who have the scale to see benefit from mechanizing the hiring of foreigners.


Yes, the sentence seems weird.

Big firms like Amazon use them a lot. They will suffer as they don't have as many slaves to work at cheap wages which undercut Americans. They only can afford the really good ones and are okay paying for them (which they could do earlier also). So big firms overall lose.

The smaller ones will lose as they cannot afford the higher threshold of wages, so no H1B slaves at all. Earlier they could afford a few here and there. Small firms also lose.



They'll do what we do which is hire people overseas.


If there is political will, all this can easily be stopped.
Trump has tariffs and is relentless. Just has to do it.

I don't think it can be easily stopped. And it will put a large number of american entreupreuners out of business.

Our ability to hire 4-6 developers fairly cheap overseas lets us run our eCommerce business in the US. We employ about 45 people in the US (mostly in our warehouse but also ancillary operations roles).

You could tariff us out of using foreign developers, but it will at best slow our growth, and depending on how severe, put us out of business. Not every company is a mega corporation that can absorb tarriffs. We've already had to change our suppliers twice.


The country (or any country) is built for its people, not its corporations. Corporations support the society. So there is no glory if corps make tons of money but the citizens are poor and jobless.

So a good government maintains his balance which is now out of control.

No offense, but how many devs you are able to hire is not the problem of the government or anyone else. Either figure out something that works or go out of business. Maybe you just have a bad business model where you work. The ecosystem will adjust but it will take time. The problem is everyone wants everything painlessly and that cannot happen. Many are resigned to the downhill coasting towards emptying out this country.



Lots of talk. The reality is you don't run a business. That's pretty obvious.
We aren't a corporation. We are an entrepreneur run business that employs more people than you ever will.
We've been featured in plenty of rankings, so its not like we don't know how to run a business.

It's a private business where the owners put in their own money, no loans or VCs.

And we face real challenges that require methodical solutions. Not more flippant regulations so you can feel more secure about your job.


That's a cold take. Hundreds of thousands of US born citizens that have been layed off, even forced to train their foreign replacenents, could probably care less if your company goes out of business. You'll be no more worse off than many thousands of US born citizens that have been laid off while H1B workers don't even have to sweat it or worry about losing their jobs here in the US.

H1B workers absolutely have to sweat it about losing their jobs. Losing their jobs effectively means deportation.
But i'm not talking about H1B. That's a red meat topic, but not the real problem.

The real problem is that it is far more cost effective to hire workers in Asian countries than in the US. And we aren't doing anything to address it. No H1s? Not a problem. Companies will just move jobs overseas. And its not easy to legislate around. You can try tariffs, and eventually we are going to tariff companies out of even more jobs.

Needs something more ingenious. Obviously, salaries are higher here - but that in itself isn't an issue. Regulation and health care are massive barriers to hiring in the US.
Brother Shamus
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Thanks for doing your part in hiring foreign workers over Americans, bucko!
deddog
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infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

Get Off My Lawn said:

This line seems completely backward:
Quote:

Big firms could gain, smaller ones may lose

Wouldn't it be the big firms that lose with the gutting of cheap mid-skill foreign labor? How many small businesses actually use H1Bs? It's gotta be a pain and I assume it's predominately large companies who have the scale to see benefit from mechanizing the hiring of foreigners.


Yes, the sentence seems weird.

Big firms like Amazon use them a lot. They will suffer as they don't have as many slaves to work at cheap wages which undercut Americans. They only can afford the really good ones and are okay paying for them (which they could do earlier also). So big firms overall lose.

The smaller ones will lose as they cannot afford the higher threshold of wages, so no H1B slaves at all. Earlier they could afford a few here and there. Small firms also lose.



They'll do what we do which is hire people overseas.


If there is political will, all this can easily be stopped.
Trump has tariffs and is relentless. Just has to do it.

I don't think it can be easily stopped. And it will put a large number of american entreupreuners out of business.

Our ability to hire 4-6 developers fairly cheap overseas lets us run our eCommerce business in the US. We employ about 45 people in the US (mostly in our warehouse but also ancillary operations roles).

You could tariff us out of using foreign developers, but it will at best slow our growth, and depending on how severe, put us out of business. Not every company is a mega corporation that can absorb tarriffs. We've already had to change our suppliers twice.


The country (or any country) is built for its people, not its corporations. Corporations support the society. So there is no glory if corps make tons of money but the citizens are poor and jobless.

So a good government maintains his balance which is now out of control.

No offense, but how many devs you are able to hire is not the problem of the government or anyone else. Either figure out something that works or go out of business. Maybe you just have a bad business model where you work. The ecosystem will adjust but it will take time. The problem is everyone wants everything painlessly and that cannot happen. Many are resigned to the downhill coasting towards emptying out this country.



Lots of talk. The reality is you don't run a business. That's pretty obvious.
We aren't a corporation. We are an entrepreneur run business that employs more people than you ever will.
We've been featured in plenty of rankings, so its not like we don't know how to run a business.

It's a private business where the owners put in their own money, no loans or VCs.

And we face real challenges that require methodical solutions. Not more flippant regulations so you can feel more secure about your job.


The point remains that you are doing it for yourself, no one else. The country isn't obliged to make things better so you make more money.

Ultimately, the rules are the same. Figure it out or exit the industry because your business model isn't working. The US is under no obligation to provide you with H1B slaves so you and your friends can enrich yourselves. Maybe consider moving to Bungalore so you can get all the cheap labor you need?

Our company has been Inc5000 for about 5 years now.
We've started at 2 people. That's more than you would have ever made payroll for. And are now at 50, with record revenues month over month for about 2 years now.

You sound like a business school grad, great in theory, absolutely stupid solutions in reality.
You have no idea what it takes to run a company, but post **** constantly about others that do. You are way out of your league. Simpletons don't run companies. Entrepreneurs do.

And they have real challenges that need to be addressed with mature non-boneheaded solutions.
deddog
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Brother Shamus said:

Thanks for doing your part in hiring foreign workers over Americans, bucko!

Thank government for making it ridiculously hard to do business in the US. While the rest of the world works on generating ingenious products, we work to make sure to dot the Is and cross the Ts for the regulators and auditors/
infinity ag
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deddog said:

infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

deddog said:

infinity ag said:

Get Off My Lawn said:

This line seems completely backward:
Quote:

Big firms could gain, smaller ones may lose

Wouldn't it be the big firms that lose with the gutting of cheap mid-skill foreign labor? How many small businesses actually use H1Bs? It's gotta be a pain and I assume it's predominately large companies who have the scale to see benefit from mechanizing the hiring of foreigners.


Yes, the sentence seems weird.

Big firms like Amazon use them a lot. They will suffer as they don't have as many slaves to work at cheap wages which undercut Americans. They only can afford the really good ones and are okay paying for them (which they could do earlier also). So big firms overall lose.

The smaller ones will lose as they cannot afford the higher threshold of wages, so no H1B slaves at all. Earlier they could afford a few here and there. Small firms also lose.



They'll do what we do which is hire people overseas.


If there is political will, all this can easily be stopped.
Trump has tariffs and is relentless. Just has to do it.

I don't think it can be easily stopped. And it will put a large number of american entreupreuners out of business.

Our ability to hire 4-6 developers fairly cheap overseas lets us run our eCommerce business in the US. We employ about 45 people in the US (mostly in our warehouse but also ancillary operations roles).

You could tariff us out of using foreign developers, but it will at best slow our growth, and depending on how severe, put us out of business. Not every company is a mega corporation that can absorb tarriffs. We've already had to change our suppliers twice.


The country (or any country) is built for its people, not its corporations. Corporations support the society. So there is no glory if corps make tons of money but the citizens are poor and jobless.

So a good government maintains his balance which is now out of control.

No offense, but how many devs you are able to hire is not the problem of the government or anyone else. Either figure out something that works or go out of business. Maybe you just have a bad business model where you work. The ecosystem will adjust but it will take time. The problem is everyone wants everything painlessly and that cannot happen. Many are resigned to the downhill coasting towards emptying out this country.



Lots of talk. The reality is you don't run a business. That's pretty obvious.
We aren't a corporation. We are an entrepreneur run business that employs more people than you ever will.
We've been featured in plenty of rankings, so its not like we don't know how to run a business.

It's a private business where the owners put in their own money, no loans or VCs.

And we face real challenges that require methodical solutions. Not more flippant regulations so you can feel more secure about your job.


The point remains that you are doing it for yourself, no one else. The country isn't obliged to make things better so you make more money.

Ultimately, the rules are the same. Figure it out or exit the industry because your business model isn't working. The US is under no obligation to provide you with H1B slaves so you and your friends can enrich yourselves. Maybe consider moving to Bungalore so you can get all the cheap labor you need?

Our company has been Inc5000 for about 5 years now.
We've started at 2 people. That's more than you would have ever made payroll for. And are now at 50, with record revenues month over month for about 2 years now.

You sound like a business school grad, great in theory, absolutely stupid solutions in reality.
You have no idea what it takes to run a company, but post **** constantly about others that do. You are way out of your league. Simpletons don't run companies. Entrepreneurs do.

And they have real challenges that need to be addressed with mature non-boneheaded solutions.


Again, no one's problem but yours. If you become Elon Musk tomorrow, good for you. If not, too bad. No one is on the hook to provide you with slave labor so you can the numbers.

Apply tariffs on outsourced work to level the playing field. Else risk turning the US into a slum.
infinity ag
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deddog said:

Brother Shamus said:

Thanks for doing your part in hiring foreign workers over Americans, bucko!

Thank government for making it ridiculously hard to do business in the US. While the rest of the world works on generating ingenious products, we work to make sure to dot the Is and cross the Ts for the regulators and auditors/


You simply have a bad business model if it is so dependent on cheap overseas labor (a form of corporate welfare).

If your company has a bad business models, it needs to go belly up. Not be funded indirectly by Americans. Cheap H1B labor is a form of welfare. We all complain about illegals and other kinds of immigrants who come to the US and go on welfare, corporations who depend on H1B cheap slave labor are also milking the system and deserve to go out of business.

The US doesn't need to cater to companies without strong business models, I am okay with them all going out of business and better businesses arising which not just take and also give back to society. Society doesn't exist to provide for corporations which is a line many greedy pseudo-conservatives take.
infinity ag
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Just saw this on teamblind.com which is a board to discuss work issues.

One can feel sorry about her situation but she or people like her have gamed the system and taken opportunities from other more deserving.

She seems intelligent, works for Google. Maybe she should think about Making India Great Again?

Just watch the sob stories are going to be turned up in volume to ramp up pressure on the Trump administration. Likely funded by Dems, corporations and leftists.

She applied to a temporary visa (H1B) and is now complaining that she feels temporary. Hmm. Maybe she should go back to India and feel permanent again.

America is not a jobs program for foreigners. H1B renewal needs to be stopped for now.

The H-1B has given me so many opportunities. But even after 12 years, my life in the US feels unstable and temporary because of it.
https://www.businessinsider.com/h1b-life-feels-unstable-after-12-years-in-usa-2025-8



Quote:

  • Surbhi Madan, a Google software engineer, has been on an H1-B visa for 12 years.
  • While the visa has enabled her to grow her career, it also leaves her with a sense of instability.
  • The visa has affected everything from the leases she signs to whether she will freeze her eggs.



Quote:


I came to the US in 2013 to pursue a bachelor's at Brown University. I was inspired by my older brother, who went to the US for his master's and liked the teaching approach.

Quote:


While the one-third probability of getting picked in the lottery remains the same since I applied in 2017, the job market when I graduated felt better. Companies were hiring and willing to sponsor H-1B applications. I feel like I got really lucky when I compare it to the situation for recent graduates now.

Quote:


I've been living in the US for 12 years. My challenges feel very different from my friends who are US citizens.


Quote:

Because of the visa, my life in the US feels temporary.
I have friends who are buying apartments. I find it hard to put down permanent roots. I have an option to renew my apartment lease for one or two years, and I always choose one year because I never know how long I'll be allowed to live in the US.
One time, I was returning to the US after traveling abroad. At immigration, a US border officer asked me about the purpose of my visit, to which I replied, "I live here." I remember him saying, "You don't live here; you work here," which left a mark on me. I remember thinking: "It's true."


Quote:

My visa has become a consideration in my family planning, too.
I'm 30, and I have been looking into egg freezing as an option. While researching the process, I thought about what would happen if I no longer had working rights in the US and wanted to retrieve the eggs.


She should probably just go back to India and find a nice boy and marry considering she is 30. The longer she waits here, the worse it gets for her.
SpreadsheetAg
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That immigration officer is wise and gave a sage comment.

Her life feels temporary because that's the point.
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