ChipFTAC01 said:

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lb3 said:

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Over_ed said:

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IMO, there should to be a law allowing everyone the opportunity to pay the same price, but I'm sure some of our business folks are going to disagee.

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When I buy in larger volumes or more frequently than you do, why shouldn't I be allowed to get a discount?

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Or conversely, if I'm willing to pay more because of convenience or the relative value of a dollar to me why shouldn't the retailer be allowed to maximize what they'll sell it to me for. I shake my head at the cost of a gallon of gas near my office but if rich people are willing to pay it then more power to them.

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But the issue isn't charging more for convenience or volume. Or even for loyalty. It's charging differently for profiling individuals in different ways.

But there are already transparency laws and gouging laws and other consumer protection laws. Maybe we need more.

I will relent on it not being directly unconstitutional, but if there are consumer protection laws designed to protect consumers, the constitution requires those laws to be applied to individuals equally.

Over_ed said:

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1) prices will be hidden so you have to use an app to see them. This allows…

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I don't see how this can be legal in a brick-and-mortar store. I believe there are many existing FTC regulations regarding how item prices are displayed in the store. Once upon a time they required individual price tags, which is obviously no longer the case. But I think they still have to have a price tag somewhere.

I see giant swings in fuel pricing day-by-day and hour-by-hour... 0.30+ swings and there is nothing out of the ordinary happening to cause it. Simply the day / time of the week.

$0.30 more at Valero vs the H-E-B grocery store station.

aggiehawg said:

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Im Gipper said:

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the most cool guy said:

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This is will test deceptive trade practices laws everywhere.

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It could, but if the business tells you the pricing is dynamic based on the Individual, what law does it break?

As I said, this is new territory and new laws are needed to protect consumers.

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Do you have any idea of how much signage that would require both outside and inside each store? A veritable crap ton, that's how much. And shoppers seeing those signs will NOT respond well to that.

I was in the grocery business for a couple of years with my late first husband. Margins are very small in that industry. Not sure it would even be worth the hassle and expense, even if you didn't lose customers over something like that.

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I suspect that is why they are doing away with pricing on the shelves and moving it to their app. You look at your phone to get YOUR price.

Digital signs allow the pricing to change over the course of the day. It eliminates manually changing the signs as well as any trace that the price was $1.00 cheaper an hour earlier.

Putting the pricing in the app has both advantages of digital signs, but also allows the pricing to be customized for each individual. It also gives a lot feedback (how many times was it looked at, was it placed in the cart, did they look for a substitute...). AI companies love this, more data, more learning, more $$$. But if you looked at the video, the companies (Delta, Kroger...) love it as well.

Over_ed said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Im Gipper said:

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the most cool guy said:

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This is will test deceptive trade practices laws everywhere.

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It could, but if the business tells you the pricing is dynamic based on the Individual, what law does it break?

As I said, this is new territory and new laws are needed to protect consumers.

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Do you have any idea of how much signage that would require both outside and inside each store? A veritable crap ton, that's how much. And shoppers seeing those signs will NOT respond well to that.

I was in the grocery business for a couple of years with my late first husband. Margins are very small in that industry. Not sure it would even be worth the hassle and expense, even if you didn't lose customers over something like that.

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I suspect that is why they are doing away with pricing on the shelves and moving it to their app. You look at your phone to get YOUR price.

Digital signs allow the pricing to change over the course of the day. It eliminates manually changing the signs as well as any trace that the price was $1.00 cheaper an hour earlier.

Putting the pricing in the app has both advantages of digital signs, but also allows the pricing to be customized for each individual. It also gives a lot feedback (how many times was it looked at, was it placed in the cart, did they look for a substitute...). AI companies love this, more data, more learning, more $$$. But if you looked at the video, the companies (Delta, Kroger...) love it as well.

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I'm sort of in disbelief that we need more laws for this, but maybe we do. Personalized pricing seems inherently unfair and unlawful, and dynamic pricing is a bit more justifiable, but can easily be abused.

In the video, I see the companies more focused on using AI for upselling. I guess the problem is the temptation to go further, and no one stopping them, but surely they will be stopped. No one is going to support personalized pricing.

aggiehawg said:

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Im Gipper said:

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UntoldSpirit said:

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I see this as clearly violating the equal protection clause (14th amendment) of the constitution. You can't charge people differently based on profiling. Surely this is obvious.

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Uhhhhh, the 14th Amendment has no application to what a private business does.

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No but Truth in Advertising laws as well as Deceptive Trade Practices will apply.

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Well. Unless you add the medical industry.

The appropriate consumer protection may be similar to gas stations being limited to 1 price change per day: a law that specifies if you sell SKU'ed items you only get to change the price once a day.

Im Gipper said:

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UntoldSpirit said:

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I see this as clearly violating the equal protection clause (14th amendment) of the constitution. You can't charge people differently based on profiling. Surely this is obvious.

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Uhhhhh, the 14th Amendment has no application to what a private business does.

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Correct, but there will multiple class actions under Civil Rights laws when one race is being charged more than another for the exact same product at the exact same time. That seems inevitable with this kind of pricing.

Get Off My Lawn said:

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The appropriate consumer protection may be similar to gas stations being limited to 1 price change per day: a law that specifies if you sell SKU'ed items you only get to change the price once a day.

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Plumbers charge a lot more to come to your house at 1:00AM than they do 1:00PM. I doubt they like that law.

Teslag said:

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More government is never the solution.

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This is equivalent to 'any amount of government of any type is bad'.

You're an anarchist.

I have been screaming for a long time that US corps are evil. As days go by, the more proof we see.

UntoldSpirit said:

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I see this as clearly violating the equal protection clause (14th amendment) of the constitution. You can't charge people differently based on profiling. Surely this is obvious.

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Yep.

I'm going to have AI monitor my purchases for detection of said violation and then have it represent me when I sue those corporations for millions.

What if they raise the price because your social credit score sucks? If we allow these things to be done, we lose control over who gets affected.

Admiral Nelson said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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The appropriate consumer protection may be similar to gas stations being limited to 1 price change per day: a law that specifies if you sell SKU'ed items you only get to change the price once a day.

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Plumbers charge a lot more to come to your house at 1:00AM than they do 1:00PM. I doubt they like that law.

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SKU = stock keeping unit. I.e. inventory items. Service wouldn't be restricted.

The YMCA bases your membership dues on your household income, but that is more of a "financial assistance" discount.

I think parts of Europe base speeding tickets and other fines on your income levels as a well.

"Pain points?" Good lord.

100%

I personally am hoping for a challenge to companies being able to keep excessive data about you. At the very least just make them liable to a degree that is so painful it isnt economic for them to store so much information.

TexAgs91 said:

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Teslag said:

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More government is never the solution.

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This is equivalent to 'any amount of government of any type is bad'.

You're an anarchist.

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No it's not equivalent and no he's not an anarchist.

With the amount of government we have now, it is entirely possible to want less government but still be in favor of some government. It just means there is too much government now.

How about I offer them a per unit price and they take it or leave it? Two can play at that game. It may also be possible to strip data out and counter this move. I already have declined to purchase good at convenience stores that have started in on the no price display trend but too many of my peers just have to have their junk food.

Tea Party said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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Teslag said:

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More government is never the solution.

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This is equivalent to 'any amount of government of any type is bad'.

You're an anarchist.

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No it's not equivalent and no he's not an anarchist.

With the amount of government we have now, it is entirely possible to want less government but still be in favor of some government. It just means there is too much government now.

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He said 'more government is never the solution'. That means as soon as a bunch of cavemen or nomads implement any sort of government they've screwed up and implemented the wrong solution.

Quote:

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I suspect that is why they are doing away with pricing on the shelves and moving it to their app. You look at your phone to get YOUR price.

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Again for grocery shopping, that is counter-productive as the vast majority of shoppers, compare pricing per unit. Make that more time consuming, less convenient would be a turn off.

Higher prices for wealthy people? Sounds like socialism to me.

GeorgiAg said:

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Higher prices for wealthy people? Sounds like socialism to me.

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Nothing wrong in aspects of socialism. We all benefit from it in some way or other but many of us claim to hate it. A 100% capitalistic society is cut throat and ruthless. Benefits only the strong/rich. Once you get old/weak, you get cast aside like a smelly rag. Not a healthy society where we leave people behind (and bring in foreigners).

RikkiTikkaTagem said:

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What if they raise the price because your social credit score sucks? If we allow these things to be done, we lose control over who gets affected.

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YES!!! This.

We saw Dems freeze conservatives out of all media (essentially). All the major platforms kowtowed to them on Jan 6, COVID, mRMA, global warming...

Imagine essentially all corps being to do this to individuals not conforming to idealized profiles, not just media.

Unequal pricing is the dying canary that shows where this knowledge and use of data could lead. IMO, we desperately need laws to preserve a modicom of privacy. Same thing on being able to use cash anyplace - then they can't profile.

But, as I said in my OP, there will be "business" guys who think this is fine. And, obviously, corporate America and tech have bought into this vision - to the tune of trillions of dollars.

Quote:

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Nothing wrong in aspects of socialism

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Garbage!

Waffledynamics said:

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AI needs severe regulation, or it's going to be a real problem.

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And this coming from NOT a communist liberal. That's how you know it's real.

Im Gipper said:

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Quote:

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Nothing wrong in aspects of socialism

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Garbage!

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Closed mind has closed off all possibilities.

Open the mind, eschew all kinds of labels and think about it.

infinity ag said:

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Im Gipper said:

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Quote:

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Nothing wrong in aspects of socialism

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Garbage!

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Closed mind has closed off all possibilities.

Open the mind, eschew all kinds of labels and think about it.

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My mind is WIDE OPEN and sees that Socialism kills everything it touches.

It has no good parts. Pick up a history book.

Im Gipper said:

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infinity ag said:

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Im Gipper said:

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Quote:

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Nothing wrong in aspects of socialism

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Garbage!

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Closed mind has closed off all possibilities.

Open the mind, eschew all kinds of labels and think about it.

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My mind is WIDE OPEN and sees that Socialism kills everything it touches.

It has no good parts. Pick up a history book.

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So, then does that mean you want to regulation when it comes to things like this topic?

Who?mikejones! said:

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Go to the damn store and pay cash

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hahahahaha....WalMart has had cameras and facial recognition in their stores for over a decade. They know who you are when you walk in, how long you will be there, what you will likely buy and how much money you will spend. Cash, Check, or Charge, they already have a profile on you

Good point.

No Spin Ag said:

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Im Gipper said:

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infinity ag said:

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Im Gipper said:

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Quote:

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Nothing wrong in aspects of socialism

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Garbage!

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Closed mind has closed off all possibilities.

Open the mind, eschew all kinds of labels and think about it.

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My mind is WIDE OPEN and sees that Socialism kills everything it touches.

It has no good parts. Pick up a history book.

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So, then does that mean you want to regulation when it comes to things like this topic?

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What are you asking?

Regulations do not mean socialism.

RikkiTikkaTagem said:

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What if they raise the price because your social credit score sucks? If we allow these things to be done, we lose control over who gets affected.

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Would you mind posting the URL where we can find the ridiculous social credit score?

Hint: Doesn't exist.









/S not/S

Trajan88 said:

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I see giant swings in fuel pricing day-by-day and hour-by-hour... 0.30+ swings and there is nothing out of the ordinary happening to cause it. Simply the day / time of the week.

$0.30 more at Valero vs the H-E-B grocery store station.

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Yes, but they aren't hiding it. It's on a huge sign right out front and you see it before you even drive into the station.