I agree. I wouldnt ever really want quotas or to actually limit what any kid wants to do. But, I do think it's a good idea to instruct student on what their careers could look like as a part of general instruction

We can definitely agree there. Part of the issue I have with the current state of liberal arts programs is that they don't do a great job of preparing students for a very competitive job market. In fact the biggest "changes" I've seen in the last 25 years has been to add in the dumb and completely unmarketable woke ideology as a core part of the disciplines.

AggieEP said:

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But don't you think that an increased throughput of students in trade schools would just recreate the problem in those fields?

Plumber and electrician are great jobs until there are so many of them out there that wages are severely depressed and work is harder to come by.

Your solution really just swaps one imbalance for another.

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Exactly.
The reason why the tech world sucks today is because we have too many of them from H1B visas. Everyone in India sends their kids to the US for school with the aim that they can get into the US work place. No one really cares about a US college degree.

When that happens, it is a problem for the rest of us. We are screwed both on demand and supply side. Too many foreigners, and fewer and fewer jobs due to outsourcing.

So getting into trades will result in Tata and Infosys branching into HVAC and plumbing in the future and inundating the country with their low skilled cheap labor.

Who?mikejones! said:

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AggieEP said:

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But don't you think that an increased throughput of students in trade schools would just recreate the problem in those fields?

Plumber and electrician are great jobs until there are so many of them out there that wages are severely depressed and work is harder to come by.

Your solution really just swaps one imbalance for another.

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Sure, at the extreme end. I dont think we could ever get to where it's a problem

Ill add, since I work in construction and am somewhat familiar with it,....there are very very few young people in plumbing, electrical and hvac fields. At least where I am. I know my guys struggle hiring anyone under, let's say 25, and keeping them more than a month, whether through self departure or getting fired for not showing up, not being reliable or some other flaw.
.

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Maybe the pay isn't good enough. Everything is a demand and supply problem. They probably get more pay doing something else. Either that or the Govt gives them welfare to do nothing.

Who?mikejones! said:

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College is probably a bad idea for most students. Go learn to be an eletrician, plumber, welder and hundreds of other high paying alternatives and you will probably never be looking for a job

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What's happening now might make the change to this. Kids and parents have been conditioned that everyone needs to go to college. Most kids treat this as a 4-6 year party with a useless degree and mediocre grades and effort. The girls either marry up or the men struggle to find good jobs.

ts5641 said:

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Who?mikejones! said:

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College is probably a bad idea for most students. Go learn to be an eletrician, plumber, welder and hundreds of other high paying alternatives and you will probably never be looking for a job

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What's happening now might make the change to this. Kids and parents have been conditioned that everyone needs to go to college. Most kids treat this as a 4-6 year party with a useless degree and mediocre grades and effort. The girls either marry up or the men struggle to find good jobs.

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I agree.
However if you get a "good" degree from a "good" American university, as an American, you should be able to get a decently job in the US. If you cannot, there is a big problem. Which is where we are today. Why? Because our companies prefer to hire foreigners - plain and simple.

I am waiting for Trump to cancel H1B and replace with a fool-proof new system to get only the geniuses (not basement bargain trash) from other countries. And impose an x% tariff on outsourced jobs to India and other countries. Trump is in a crashing hurry so I am sure he will do it. He's even ripped apart his "friendship" with India so he can make H1B changes with worrying about that relationship.

in my experience as an engineer, the new/young engineers can use Excel to do calculations like no bodys business, but it's all just copying formulas. Some of them get it, others just 'memorize the test' but don't really get why the calculation works or doesn't work. Same with design tools (like flow calculators, stress analysis software, etc.). The software says it work, but in reality it can't be built, or it's going to be crazy expensive and they can't see more practical way to make things work.

Also seeing a lot of them use AI to write technical memo's. It's a slog to check those as it's just full of big words that don't mean anything.

TMfrisco said:

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My daughter graduated in May. She spent the Spring job hunting. She applied for 56 jobs (not jobs over her head), interviewed 25 times and received one offer. Fortunately a job she liked.

She was a 4.0 from Mays. Smart. Talks well to anyone. Sorority President. Buck Weirus winner. Selected to work for the Collegiate Council for 2 years. Sorority woman of the year. Good internships. Etc, Etc... In other words, the resume was good.

At her graduation my nephew said, "If she is having a hard time finding a job, what are the 'normal' kids doing".

I think the technical kids and engineers are doing ok - everyone else, not so much. I would agree the "underemployment" is high.

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My company will be filling jobs for May 2026 graduates this fall. By spring, there are not entry level jobs left b/c they're filled. Almost all companies are like that now.

Curios why did she wait so long to interview? I guess with no campus job center that doesn't help things.

unfortunately univ. and profs have brought it on themselves.

My aunt is as conservative as they come, PhD from A&M and just retired from a B12 univ and 90% of her fellow profs were a liberal as they come. She always had to keep her mouth closed around them.

I had some pretty liberal colleagues and I always took it as a challenge to engage them on topics (sometimes within our discipline and sometimes just general political small talk) in a way where we could have an adult discussion. I found that 95% of the time I could have a rational conversation, now again this was at a military service academy so not representative of all of higher ed, but at least some sort of proof of concept.

The bigger issue which has remained unaddressed for years was in universities seeming to formally endorse political positions. It's hard to have a fair and balanced conversation with a colleague about how BLM is promoting questionable behavior while the university puts up a big BLM mural on campus. Or that LGBTQ stuff has gone too far when the university president is marching in a pride parade.

In my experience, a good academic feels exhilaration at the chance to engage in deep and meaningful conversations. Unfortunately we also do have some very weak academics who think they are born to educate (indoctrinate) the ignorant masses and who are not interested in true dialogue.

Sets a poor standard when universities required one to submit or sign a diversity statement to be considered for employment

I should ask, did the service academies require such written statements?

With all the tariffs implemented, nothing to protect American engineers from their jobs being offshored. I personally know of 'American' engineering offices that offshore most of their engineering hours.

Same with the work visas. Lots of engineers immigrating to the US while American engineering grads can't find work.

People mention AI for good reason but why won't our elected officials deal with the above 2 issues now? That was their mandate when elected.

agracer said:

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in my experience as an engineer, the new/young engineers can use Excel to do calculations like no bodys business, but it's all just copying formulas. Some of them get it, others just 'memorize the test' but don't really get why the calculation works or doesn't work. Same with design tools (like flow calculators, stress analysis software, etc.). The software says it work, but in reality it can't be built, or it's going to be crazy expensive and they can't see more practical way to make things work.

Also seeing a lot of them use AI to write technical memo's. It's a slog to check those as it's just full of big words that don't mean anything.

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I'm GenX and we had lots of those types of engineers too. About 1/2 of engineers have critical thinking skills and can figure things out; the other half need to follow recipes.

No such document for us, but I will say that I updated my military records to remove gender, race and religious denomination when I applied to work there.

When I did that I remember thinking what kind of messed up country we'd become when simple facts about who you are could lead to discrimination against you.

History repeats itself.

Life Post Carter Sucked. Military life sucked, economy was sluggish, gas lines were long…..took another President to fix EVERYTHING.

Life Post O'Bummer sucks. Military life sucked, economy sucks, gas and food prices were high…..took another President to fix EVERYTHING.


I graduated 1990 at the forefront of the peace dividen in Engineering and most of us could not find immediate. Bad timing for us. Took a year for me to find my first job in Gainesville Tx where I did basic design and traditional drafting with pencil.

agracer said:

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TMfrisco said:

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My daughter graduated in May. She spent the Spring job hunting. She applied for 56 jobs (not jobs over her head), interviewed 25 times and received one offer. Fortunately a job she liked.

She was a 4.0 from Mays. Smart. Talks well to anyone. Sorority President. Buck Weirus winner. Selected to work for the Collegiate Council for 2 years. Sorority woman of the year. Good internships. Etc, Etc... In other words, the resume was good.

At her graduation my nephew said, "If she is having a hard time finding a job, what are the 'normal' kids doing".

I think the technical kids and engineers are doing ok - everyone else, not so much. I would agree the "underemployment" is high.

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My company will be filling jobs for May 2026 graduates this fall. By spring, there are not entry level jobs left b/c they're filled. Almost all companies are like that now.

Curios why did she wait so long to interview? I guess with no campus job center that doesn't help things.

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Good question. I would say because the jobs she was after are not typically on that kind of cycle. I guess the sports world is a little different than the typical corporate world.

She did apply for a few jobs in the fall, but they all wanted people who could start earlier than she could.

TMfrisco said:

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agracer said:

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My company will be filling jobs for May 2026 graduates this fall. By spring, there are not entry level jobs left b/c they're filled. Almost all companies are like that now.

Curios why did she wait so long to interview? I guess with no campus job center that doesn't help things.

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Good question. I would say because the jobs she was after are not typically on that kind of cycle. I guess the sports world is a little different than the typical corporate world.

She did apply for a few jobs in the fall, but they all wanted people who could start earlier than she could.

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Agreed. This is very common outside of a few professions that actively recruit on campus.

When I graduated (without a job), all my accounting/engineering friends already had great jobs lined up with well-known companies. That's just not how it works for other majors.

None of my kids had jobs at graduation. They worked part-time gigs while actively applying/interviewing. It took three to six months to land that first (crappy) job.

Young male college grads are now jobless at the same rate as non-grads, per FT: pic.twitter.com/F1lZRXp4Yf

— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) August 7, 2025

FCBlitz said:

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History repeats itself.

Life Post Carter Sucked. Military life sucked, economy was sluggish, gas lines were long…..took another President to fix EVERYTHING.

Life Post O'Bummer sucks. Military life sucked, economy sucks, gas and food prices were high…..took another President to fix EVERYTHING.


I graduated 1990 at the forefront of the peace dividen in Engineering and most of us could not find immediate. Bad timing for us. Took a year for me to find my first job in Gainesville Tx where I did basic design and traditional drafting with pencil.

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Eh. The problems being discussed in this thread are way more systemic than "it's the fault of the democrat president"

Survey: 77% of Zoomers have brought parent to job interview, 45% have parents call bosses regularlyhttps://t.co/xk6ZE5khE0

— Not the Bee (@Not_the_Bee) August 7, 2025

Who?mikejones! said:

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Survey: 77% of Zoomers have brought parent to job interview, 45% have parents call bosses regularlyhttps://t.co/xk6ZE5khE0

— Not the Bee (@Not_the_Bee) August 7, 2025

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I call bull****
There is no way 77% of candidates got their parents to an interview.
No way.
I mean maybe they did the survey outside of Columbia or Oberlin College or something, and then extrapolated.

JohnClark929 said:

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With all the tariffs implemented, nothing to protect American engineers from their jobs being offshored. I personally know of 'American' engineering offices that offshore most of their engineering hours.

Same with the work visas. Lots of engineers immigrating to the US while American engineering grads can't find work.

People mention AI for good reason but why won't our elected officials deal with the above 2 issues now? That was their mandate when elected.

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Because this requires thoughtfulness, ingenuity, and problem solving skill.
Congress isn't capable of any of those things, so instead , we get the Presidential Tariff hammer.