Teslag said:

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Same

I always laugh at people who use cash for most purchases. Congrats on being irresponsible and throwing money away.

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Convenience Cards is what I call them.

What I don't understand is anyone who uses debit. Blows my mind.

Gilligan said:

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Teslag said:

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Same

I always laugh at people who use cash for most purchases. Congrats on being irresponsible and throwing money away.

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Convenience Cards is what I call them.

What I don't understand is anyone who uses debit. Blows my mind.

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Ditto. Mine is for absolute emergencies only if my 3 other CCs don't work for some reason. Way too much risk with DCs.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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scoop12 said:

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I don't have any problem with processor fees as they offer a valuable service and benefit to businesses. I do have a problem with the increase in interchange fees that you have zero negotiating power over which are used to pay for credit card rewards. The credit card companies get to offer rewards to customers and stick small business with the bill without any pushback. It's another one of the small cuts that are killing small business.

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Do small businesses have to take credit cards?

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If they want my business, they do.

rwv2055 said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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scoop12 said:

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I don't have any problem with processor fees as they offer a valuable service and benefit to businesses. I do have a problem with the increase in interchange fees that you have zero negotiating power over which are used to pay for credit card rewards. The credit card companies get to offer rewards to customers and stick small business with the bill without any pushback. It's another one of the small cuts that are killing small business.

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Do small businesses have to take credit cards?

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If they want my business, they do.

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This is the point all the "cash only" types miss from their positions well above the proletariat. We have a brick and mortar and a web presence and may collect less than 0.5% of our in-store purchases in cash. We obviously have nothing in cash online.

Pinochet said:

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rwv2055 said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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scoop12 said:

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I don't have any problem with processor fees as they offer a valuable service and benefit to businesses. I do have a problem with the increase in interchange fees that you have zero negotiating power over which are used to pay for credit card rewards. The credit card companies get to offer rewards to customers and stick small business with the bill without any pushback. It's another one of the small cuts that are killing small business.

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Do small businesses have to take credit cards?

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If they want my business, they do.

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This is the point all the "cash only" types miss from their positions well above the proletariat. We have a brick and mortar and a web presence and may collect less than 0.5% of our in-store purchases in cash. We obviously have nothing in cash online.

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Is it really "cash only"? I don't see too many people advocating that. It's mostly people like me who argue that we need to retain cash as an option.

Yes, people who can't understand anyone who does money different than they do. They dont seem to understand why a credit card can be a preferable payment form for a seller. There are fees that we all like to ***** about, but the additional sales from the convenience factor outweigh that by orders of magnitude. My libertarian-esque view says the government needs to get the **** out of this issue, but the fact remains that credit cards are a necessity for almost any business.

TheEternalOptimist said:

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Hawley and Sanders are working on some bipartisan legislation to cap interest rates. 29% APR is ridiculous.

Perhaps one of a handful of things that can be agreed on.

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No. This is just a form of price controls, which never work.
It's not the banks' responsibility to charge a "reasonable" rate (what ever that is). It's the consumer's responsibility to not run a balance with those kinds of rates.

Caveat emptor

Pinochet said:

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Yes, people who can't understand anyone who does money different than they do. They dont seem to understand why a credit card can be a preferable payment form for a seller. There are fees that we all like to ***** about, but the additional sales from the convenience factor outweigh that by orders of magnitude. My libertarian-esque view says the government needs to get the **** out of this issue, but the fact remains that credit cards are a necessity for almost any business.

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Yeah, I agree with all of that. I just don't see anyone advocating for cash only....just people who don't want to lose it as an option.

I rarely use cash. It's basically an emergency FOP for us at this point in life, but there is a massive slippery slope here that we have to balance.

One of my greatest fears is that we deploy USCBDC. The day that happens is a massive step closer to totalitarianism, so I want the status quo of e-payment outside of government owned wallets to be put in stasis and not change at all towards the government getting involved.

We also absolutely need to retain cash as a FOP because we keep sacrificing analog backups for more and more digital and automation which is frankly suicidal as a society.

I have noticed a large number of retailers charging a fee for credit card use recently. If you eliminate the rewards and retailers continue to pass fees onto the consumer, then I see dark days ahead for cc companies. It has been smart for consumers to use them when the retailer eats the fee and the consumer gets rewards, but smart consumers will figure out that paying a fee and getting no rewards is a losing proposition for them.

FbgTxAg said:

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I'd use my card less and pay cash more if I didn't effectively get the CCTransaction fee the business pays, back with each purchase.

Credit Cards aren't the problem. It's the processor vultures. Businesses have to be able to process the cards, and pay a fee for each. In essence, reward cards just give that to the cardholder. They still make money on interest.

But cash suffers - even though it's much better for businesses to be paid in cash.

I've used the rewards system for a long time - and got a few first-class rides across the pond. And I've also been the guy paying the CC transaction fees. Adjust prices accordingly, move on.

But in the end, this bill if passed would probably keep cash alive a bit longer.

Which is good, cuz when cash is gone, it's the next step in our demise.

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What I've never understood are the businesses that offer a 5% cash discount. Your credit card fees aren't that high.

Also, your business isn't going broke over credit card fees. If your profit margin is 2-3%, you have other problems. And I pay 10s of thousands of dollars annually in credit card fees.

reineraggie09 said:

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FbgTxAg said:

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I'd use my card less and pay cash more if I didn't effectively get the CCTransaction fee the business pays, back with each purchase.

Credit Cards aren't the problem. It's the processor vultures. Businesses have to be able to process the cards, and pay a fee for each. In essence, reward cards just give that to the cardholder. They still make money on interest.

But cash suffers - even though it's much better for businesses to be paid in cash.

I've used the rewards system for a long time - and got a few first-class rides across the pond. And I've also been the guy paying the CC transaction fees. Adjust prices accordingly, move on.

But in the end, this bill if passed would probably keep cash alive a bit longer.

Which is good, cuz when cash is gone, it's the next step in our demise.

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What I've never understood are the businesses that offer a 5% cash discount. Your credit card fees aren't that high.

Also, your business isn't going broke over credit card fees. If your profit margin is 2-3%, you have other problems. And I pay 10s of thousands of dollars annually in credit card fees.

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I give 5% cash discount. And it's not because of the 2.7% fee I pay per transaction. Other benefits to persuading customers to pay in cash.

AGpops1923 said:

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reineraggie09 said:

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FbgTxAg said:

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I'd use my card less and pay cash more if I didn't effectively get the CCTransaction fee the business pays, back with each purchase.

Credit Cards aren't the problem. It's the processor vultures. Businesses have to be able to process the cards, and pay a fee for each. In essence, reward cards just give that to the cardholder. They still make money on interest.

But cash suffers - even though it's much better for businesses to be paid in cash.

I've used the rewards system for a long time - and got a few first-class rides across the pond. And I've also been the guy paying the CC transaction fees. Adjust prices accordingly, move on.

But in the end, this bill if passed would probably keep cash alive a bit longer.

Which is good, cuz when cash is gone, it's the next step in our demise.

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What I've never understood are the businesses that offer a 5% cash discount. Your credit card fees aren't that high.

Also, your business isn't going broke over credit card fees. If your profit margin is 2-3%, you have other problems. And I pay 10s of thousands of dollars annually in credit card fees.

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I give 5% cash discount. And it's not because of the 2.7% fee I pay per transaction. Other benefits to persuading customers to pay in cash.

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This! Are people this obtuse? For some it could be a significantly higher discount. I feel like a fool for reporting our cash payments and I want the option to stop if they do not do something about progressive taxation.

I get 2% cash back using my Fidelity CC. The only [small] requirement is that it goes into my brokerage account at Fidelity. If I needed the cash immediately, I would just xfer it to my bank checking account if needed.

If bank fees were reduced, I would just alter my payment methods to whatever made the most sense.

You are a fool.

AGpops1923 said:

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You are a fool.

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I am in court almost everyday against the federal government and my clients are criminals. The feds look really closely at their sources of income and regularly freeze their accounts. It would be a pretty bad look if they raided a clients house and found a receipt paying me in cash and I did not have the corresponding deposit into my IOLTA account along with a CTR filing.

We will take in over a million in cash this year. It hurts to give the government 30% of that, but it is what it is. I keep hoping my honesty will be rewarded and they will lower our taxes down to at least 20% for the top earners.

Seems they should be looking closely.

hph6203 said:

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Seems they should be looking closely.

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Oh they do.

Tom Fox said:

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AGpops1923 said:

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You are a fool.

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I am in court almost everyday against the federal government and my clients are criminals. The feds look really closely at their sources of income and regularly freeze their accounts. It would be a pretty bad look if they raided a clients house and found a receipt paying me in cash and I did not have the corresponding deposit into my IOLTA account along with a CTR filing.

We will take in over a million in cash this year. It hurts to give the government 30% of that, but it is what it is. I keep hoping my honesty will be rewarded and they will lower our taxes down to at least 20% for the top earners.

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Why should cash income not be taxed? That's an absurd belief. You still deduct all the costs associated with the service you provided. I guess the stereotype of lawyers not understanding math or accounting still hasn't been proven wrong.

I don't understand why some people think that income should be taxed differently based on how you received it. Cash tips? Tax them. Cash payment for a widget? Tax it. Pushing some weird theory that income in currency should be tax free is what gets us into a spot where half our country doesn't pay any tax while the other half shoulders a disproportionate amount.

LoL I don't. I think our current progressive taxation system is theft. Everyone should pay the same rate. From the first dollar to the last. Whether cash, income, investments, everything. And that rate should never exceed 10%.

But cash at least allows small business owners willing to risk it, the ability to use it as a tax avoidance strategy.

To make sure you follow me: I am saying that cash allows you to CHEAT.

Tom Fox said:

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LoL I don't. I think our current progressive taxation system is theft. Everyone should pay the same rate. From the first dollar to the last. Whether cash, income, investments, everything. And that rate should never exceed 10%.

But cash at least allows small business owners willing to risk it, the ability to use it as a tax avoidance strategy.

To make sure you follow me: I am saying that cash allows you to CHEAT.

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And if people like you, who advise criminals, didn't suggest that cheating is only a big deal if you get caught, the government wouldn't have the excuse of cash allows cheating and therefore we have to be able to track every digital dollar to make CBDC mandatory. Congrats, you're either a thief or tolerating thieves. You're the former prosecutor, right? That figures. Once a dishonest guy, always a dishonest guy. You give lawyers a bad name.

Pinochet said:

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Tom Fox said:

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LoL I don't. I think our current progressive taxation system is theft. Everyone should pay the same rate. From the first dollar to the last. Whether cash, income, investments, everything. And that rate should never exceed 10%.

But cash at least allows small business owners willing to risk it, the ability to use it as a tax avoidance strategy.

To make sure you follow me: I am saying that cash allows you to CHEAT.

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And if people like you, who advise criminals, didn't suggest that cheating is only a big deal if you get caught, the government wouldn't have the excuse of cash allows cheating and therefore we have to be able to track every digital dollar to make CBDC mandatory. Congrats, you're either a thief or tolerating thieves. You're the former prosecutor, right? That figures. Once a dishonest guy, always a dishonest guy. You give lawyers a bad name.

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Former prosecutor and federal agent. Progressive taxation is theft.

And I personally report every single dollar that I earn, but I understand why someone would not do so.

When you put the entire tax burden on a tiny subset of the electorate and phase out virtually all deductions, then allow those largely not paying to vote for ever more taxes … well you get we have right now.

Everyone scatter. It's a fed.

hph6203 said:

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Everyone scatter. It's a fed.

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LoL … I'm not the former fed you need to worry about.

Well unless you think Trump is going to declare himself dictator and institute his own gestapo to hunt down progressives and illegals. And you belong to one of the aforementioned groups.

This thread is the embodiment of both societal progress and pitfalls when viewing the velocity of money and transactional convenience.

The central bank ledger economy has been around for 100s of years. We were warned by the founders not to be lured by the Faustian central banks. Now, we are addicted to unsound money. Oh what uncomfortably slow horrors we would experience if we had to return to gold, silver, or copper to purchase goods and services. I can only dream...

We march on with the "convenience" arguments completely ignoring the hidden fees that have chipped away at everyone's liberty and freedom. The central banks will own our labor outright soon enough. They will control every transaction we make and/or don't make. Any transaction not conducted inside this hellish CBDC system will be considered terrorism. All of this sounds dystopian but it's happening in plain sight.

The ignorant people speaking ill of those who want to conduct business in cash should be ashamed of themselves; especially the conservatives on this forum. Cash, even if fiat, is one of the last vestiges of real freedom and liberty...and some of you seem all too willing to piss it away for perceived convenience.

And what the hell is this BS nonsense of lambasting people for not wanting to pay this irresponsible f-ing government more of our hard-earned money via taxation? IT IS NOT PATRIOTIC TO PAY EXORBITANT TAXES! I will remind everyone that we fought a world super power because of high taxes. Pay the bank cartel the least amount necessary and lawful; not a nickel more.