Maybe more of a philosophy post, but wanted to pose the question:

Have dumbs always outbred the smarts? Or, did we make a fatal mistake trying to defeat natural selection?

The movie Idiocracy has an opening scene which gets at the question, where we see a dumb trailer park type guy have a million kids while the smart educated couple has none.



The movie argues we defeated natural selection and caused our own doom.

Is that true, or have dumbs always outnumbered the smarts and it just seems more prevalent now since we're all connected and have to see the scale of human stupidity?

What are your thoughts on "defeating" natural selection in humanity and its impact?

Two thoughts, very generally.

The premise of your question assumes the theory of natural selection is a completely true premise from which to frame the question, which I think is difficult given the context of the question around the idea.

Second, you're assuming natural selection should select intelligence as the most dominant phenotype.

I also know the guys in my high school class that knocked someone up were rarely considered "gifted".

When I had to student teach to get my degree I had a conversation with one of the coaches about how stupid some of these kids are. I said something like how do they get so stupid. He said, "If you follow an idiot home, a bigger idiot will answer the door." That is so true. That was basically the only thing I learned form student teaching, and decided after those months to never teach again.

Yes, idiots will always have more kids. Idiots don't think rationally. They only go off of what feels good in the moment. Idiots never go about planning to have kids. They just like to play Russian roulette with sex. Just like my neighbor. She has like 8 kids, and not one single adult male non-child in the house. Damn I wish my HOA banned all renters. I am sure multiple dads. I am guessing she is getting some government assistance because there is no why in hell she has a job that will allow her to pay a rent over $2500 a month.

as someone said earlier, this comes down to a question of philosophy.

it's an interesting question that to begin with you must decide if there is a biological precondition to mate inherent in humans like in the animal kingdom.

I would make a case that as intelligence is lower in a human the instinct to follow animal instincts (biological reproduction) is higher. Any look at Instagram or tik tok will show that there are people who are of the more lower income level will celebrate a more promiscuous lifestyle and brag about sex, pregnancies, and abortion. You literally see ghetto people rapping about it all the time.

so yes, i'd say that those of lower intellect will be more inclined to out breed their counterparts

ibtfafo

I think we're moving toward a world where there's less dumb jobs so it stands out more. AI and robotics will accelerate the issue.


I'm all for legal immigration and as much as possible for smart people. Everyone doesn't have to be elite of the elite smart but pretty smart

BenFiasco14 said:

---

Maybe more of a philosophy post, but wanted to pose the question:

Have dumbs always outbred the smarts? Or, did we make a fatal mistake trying to defeat natural selection?

The movie Idiocracy has an opening scene which gets at the question, where we see a dumb trailer park type guy have a million kids while the smart educated couple has none.



The movie argues we defeated natural selection and caused our own doom.

Is that true, or have dumbs always outnumbered the smarts and it just seems more prevalent now since we're all connected and have to see the scale of human stupidity?

What are your thoughts on "defeating" natural selection in humanity and its impact?

---

For every few hundred thousand avg people there's a super successful person or innovator of some sort. Yes they've always outbred us super successful people.

The answer to your question is yes, always

But some societies manage it better to promote the smarts to making more of the important decisions, mostly by using a capitalism reinforced meritocracy

The US has evolved far away from this, and now intentionally puts the volumes of dumbs way above the outnumbered smarts in terms of decision making and social priority

Yes, the dumbs outbreed the smarts. And there were more of them to start with.

BearJew13 said:

---

Second, you're assuming natural selection should select intelligence as the most dominant phenotype.

---

Natural selection doesn't select for long-term health, success, or intelligence. It selects only those who live long enough to reproduce.

Intelligent people consider the ability to care for young before making them.

Imbeciles wing it and let their accidents starve.

Do you mean educated or do you mean wise?

I see the highly educated a socialist Marxist who are fools who have been indoctrinated by the system

I see plumbers and truck drivers mechanics seeing things the same way I do but they're not heavily educated they know how to follow the money and they don't get that stupid covid jab and there are causing a half heart cardiomyopathy

So expound a little bit

TexasRebel said:

---

Intelligent people consider the ability to care for young before making them.

Imbeciles wing it and let their accidents starve.

---

The first sentence is probably true and sounds much like the opening scene to Idiocracy


But if the second sentence were true there would be zero imbeciles

If a youngster is capable of being a smart person in life, the perverted public education system will dumb him/her down before they let them out the door.

EVA3 said:

---

BearJew13 said:

---

Second, you're assuming natural selection should select intelligence as the most dominant phenotype.

---

Natural selection doesn't select for long-term health, success, or intelligence. It selects only those who live long enough to reproduce.

---

Also, in nature there are always far more offspring produced than will live to the age of reproduction. Humans are the only species that can counter the factors that lead to the decimation of the young. We have no significant predators. We have technology to provide adequate food, water, clothing, shelter, etc. for all. We have technology to eliminate or treat childhood diseases. No other organism on the planet can do the same so their chances of reaching sexual maturity are very much tied to their intelligence and other survival traits. Humans do not share those negative selection pressures so their offspring reach the age of sexual maturity and their reproductive success is based on their reproductive success. Those that are good at having babies produce babies that will be good at having babies and as several posters have already stated, intelligence will actually be a negative for reproductive success in this scenario.

Idiocracy is not a movie, it's a documentary, and we are very far down that path.

Short answer... Yes.

Dumbs have always outlived the smarts, that is the long answer. (FYI : Dumbs do not include the stupids)

TexasRebel said:

---

Intelligent people consider the ability to care for young before making them.

Imbeciles wing it and let their accidents starve government pay for their kids.

---

FIFY

BenFiasco14 said:

---

Maybe more of a philosophy post, but wanted to pose the question:

Have dumbs always outbred the smarts? Or, did we make a fatal mistake trying to defeat natural selection?

The movie Idiocracy has an opening scene which gets at the question, where we see a dumb trailer park type guy have a million kids while the smart educated couple has none.



The movie argues we defeated natural selection and caused our own doom.

Is that true, or have dumbs always outnumbered the smarts and it just seems more prevalent now since we're all connected and have to see the scale of human stupidity?

What are your thoughts on "defeating" natural selection in humanity and its impact?

---

It certainly was never this bad and Idiocracy is being played out before us.
Just read some letters Civil War soldiers wrote home to family. They're more eloquent than a PhD in English writing something today.

Quote:

---

Have dumbs always outbred the smarts?

---

yes

The human brain has incredible potential. Given the proper environmental and societal stimuli, you'd be surprised how many of the "dumb ones" trigger into something positive.

But as mentioned above, when you subsidize and encourage dumb, you're going to get dumber. We have been doing this universally since the worst President of all time enacted the New Deal.

TexasRebel said:

---

Intelligent people consider the ability to care for young before making them.

Imbeciles wing it and let their accidents starve.

---

This is being way too nice.

Intelligent people possess better means to not have kids so they can pursue other selfish desires. People who are waiting to afford a kid generally have luxury car payments, vacations abroad, and a big promotion they are shooting for.

Whoever said idiots follow idiots has this correct. I remember a Friend who was in our group of friends after college, he always referenced his dad, but this guy wasn't too smart himself. One day at some event I met his dad, it's definitely true, the apple doesn't fall very far from the tree. It's amazing what dumb parents do to their kids, some of those kids actually learn at school and can break those cycles, but we need good schools for that to happen

Someone post up the intro to "Idiocracy".

Woo-hoo! I'm gonna bleep all these cheerleaders!

BearJew13 said:

---

Second, you're assuming natural selection should select intelligence as the most dominant phenotype.

---

This is a good point. There are tons of examples of natural selection "trying" the volume approach. Developing intelligence seems to be a lot more difficult than just having more offspring.

I'll add that I think prosperity is a huge contributing factor. It's never been easier to survive and have a comfortable life than it is now. People can entertain themselves for hours just brainlessly scrolling up on their phones. Not sure what the solution is for this since prosperity is kind of the main goal for a society.

Back to the Future

Today I realized that Trevor in the opening of "Idiocracy" was played by the same guy as the character Jimmy Barrett the comedian on "Mad Men."

Heineken-Ashi said:

---

The human brain has incredible potential. Given the proper environmental and societal stimuli, you'd be surprised how many of the "dumb ones" trigger into something positive.

But as mentioned above, when you subsidize and encourage dumb, you're going to get dumber. We have been doing this universally since the worst President of all time enacted the New Deal.

---

This was going to be the point I was going to make. I think there are a lot more "smart" people born than develop into successful, noticeable smart people. The seed must fall in rich soil to flourish; plenty good seed falls on rocky ground.

now add in 12 million illegal aliens who aren't exactly MENSA award winners

Some wandering thoughts . There was a time where generally "smarts" bred a lot as it improved their chances to prosper . Consider successful farmers or pioneers who had big families to expand their agricultural assets . I don't believe the answer is "always". Domestication of the continent and mechanization certainly lessened the importance of a big family unit .

Multiply and prosper is a general tenet of many religions and the moral basis of said religions also promotes order and prosperity imo. Granted there are exceptions and when the religion becomes a basis for power seekers that also can be problematic. To me that's a *******ization of the religious tenet but that's probably a different discussion. Same goes for power seekers that must stamp out religion to consolidate power.

Combination of breakdown in morality and encouraging people to have offspring that they cannot provide for is the work of evil imo . the problem increases exponentially as generations pass. It starts to look less like an orderly civilization and more like a merciless jungle.

One more wandering thought , I have a BIL that I would consider a "dumb" . He isn't really stupid but I'd say he is weak . Had 6 kids ( farm family) and also developed a pretty bad drug addiction . His wife is a really strong Catholic and she sort of held things together and encouraged the kids in school, church , sports, etc. they did have one Down's syndrome child that is lifelong dependent but the other 5 are all independent and successful ( doctors, nurses, engineers) and are raising what look to be successful families of their own. Point being, this is an example of a "dumb" producing productive children.

you are also leaving out that the more intelligent will weigh the risks of having additional children versus total income levels/retirement/expenses.

while hoodrats see more of a financial incentive to have the US government (us taxpayers) pay for their endless amounts of children.

Career politicians all know that most people are stupid and that is what makes them successful. Most of the others are woefully complacent until something bad happens to them, which is not lost on those politicians.

It is passed on through generations.

My father had a Masters degree in Electrical Engg from a top school in the Bay Area. I have 3 degrees including a grad engineering degree from A&M. So education is very important to me, I have used many methods to guide both my kids into performing to the best of their abilities in school. My son is in a top 5 school for Computer Science. No DEI for him else he would have gotten into MIT, Stanford or Berkeley. I had no problems spanking my kids when they were little and when they deserved it. I don't tolerate them talking back rudely either. They can make their point politely and I encourage that. As my son crossed 20, he gets more autonomy in his life but I am always watching as a parent. Thankfully he is a good kid. Daughter is a teen and she has more restrictions. Recently she wanted to go to a concert with a boy. Another girl who was supposed to go could not. Answer is NO. And no means no. She was cool with it and probably already realizes that I am protecting her. I also had banned smart phones for both my kids until 10th grade (9th grade they got flip phones, nothing in middle school). My daughter is even now banned from instagram. She does have snapchat but that is only because her school study and sport groups communicate on that. I don't want her posting coquettish photos of herself at this age. Some of our friend's daughters do and my wife who follows them tells me about it.

The answer for your question is awareness and importance of education assigned by parents. Starts from there. Some parents don't have a good education but they make sure their kids get one. Asian immigrants are like that. Daddy may have a small grocery store but son is studying at Harvard to be a doctor.

A big reason is today's parents (who are 30-50) want to be friends of their kids. And desperately so. I never wanted to. I told my kids, you will have 1000 friends, but only ONE father. So I am NOT your friend. That doesn't mean I am a angry grump all the time, it means I am not "one of the guys" and I have a different position in their lives that cannot ever be replaced. Friends might come and go. All the friends of mine who desperately wanted to be buddies with their kids are now regretting it looking at their out of control party kids. Too late now. My neighbor guy is my age, he lives in a house likely paid by his wife's father (who is super successful and rich). He works at a business his father in law built. His kids? 3 sons, and all did degrees that don't make much money or are dead end. The oldest son got a chick pregnant at 21 while at college and at 23 has a 2 year old daughter - he is unmarried of course. He broke up with her and now they only meet to exchange the baby and you can see the bad vibes.

Bottomline: The parents are the key. Dumb parents almost always raise dumb kids

Yes, but they used to die at faster rates so it evened out.

Shame.

There's no more shame in our society and we need to bring it back.

It used to be shameful to be an idiot and most everyone would treat you like you should be ashamed of yourself. It used to be shameful to be a bad parent or a single mother of 8 from multiple fathers. It used to be shameful to be on welfare. It used to be shameful to be out of work.

Nobody is ashamed of being worthless anymore and if anyone even hints at looking down on someone who should be ashamed of themselves, they are chastised for discriminating, being an elite snob or not be compassionate enough.

We need to bring back shame