JJxvi said:

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MAROON said:

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Texas property taxes are extremely low

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8th highest property tax burden of all states is not low. We also have the 12th highest sales tax burden, combined with 0 state income tax gives us the relatively low total tax burden that is ranked 37th.


How the 50 States Rank By Tax Burden - CPA Practice Advisor

all we are talking about is how to divide up the where the money comes from - which is part of the problem. We should be demanding lower expenditures AND lower taxes.

I'm negative property taxes because it's based on a made-up number by a government authority. A number that provides $0 to my cash in-flow but adds to my cash outflow.

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It is based on two numbers. The first and most important is indeed a made-up number by a government authority. Its not the value of your property, it is that authority's budget.

Then everybody within the boundaries of that authority has to pay for it. We're not talking about taxing you more because your value is more, but thats how everyone understands it. We're talking about dividing the budgeted amount of tax up among property owners based on how much property each owner within the district owns. You dont pay more because property values went up. If everybody's value went up proportionally and the government authority set the same budget, then everybody's tax would stay exactly the same. However, government is able to raise taxes when property values go up and pretend that they arent, and luckily for them the blame falls on the appraisals, which I'm sure is how they like it.

Thats not to say that appraisal isnt a problem, it is but moreseo because its kinda hard to appraise all property in entire counties. Its impossible to know everything you need to know about every property to do so accurately even in the smallest counties, which also also are going to have a tiny budget.

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Which is why so many on here have harped on cutting expenditures. You are right, the budget has been set and has to come from somewhere, so appraisals let you haggle over what percent of the budget comes of of your pocket vs your neighbors based on perceived value.

We all win if little Johnny and Jane could live with less bloated ISD admin, a slightly used gym, dirt fields and not need the latest in unvetted classroom IT.

I homeschool my kids and yet the largest burden of my property taxes go to educate other kids on values I disagree with; all while having to dance between avoiding potholes and not high centering on the county access road.

You trust the government with even more money and deference on spending priorities? I don't. That's just one reason this doesn't make sense.

"local teaching authorities" do not realize increases in higher property appraisals. They get what the states says they get. Anything they collect higher gets sent back to the state.

BCG Disciple said:

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Exemption increasing by $40k only means appraisal districts will be more aggressive to bring values up.

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The formulas are set...arent they? how can they play games with appraisal values...and anyway values are going down...so they wont be able to raise values in the current environment. Which maybe why they're being so cautious in raising the exemption.

It's hard to get anything done when only 8% of us vote. That's what our county turnout was. 8%. So we can argue all day long about why we have the "wrong" people in state elected leadership but 8% would tell me that most even on this forum didn't vote.

MAROON said:

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My property value goes up higher than my spending or income most years. I shouldn't have to move to a worse part of town because I'm getting taxed on unrealized gains.

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This is how we get real estate prices like california and NY. They can live in a property despite the rapidly growing valuations because of restrictions on valuations.

I think moving late in life because you can no longer afford a neighborhood and its valuations is perfectly understandable. It allows the properties to turn over and be useful to younger people.

WestAustinAg said:

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BCG Disciple said:

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Exemption increasing by $40k only means appraisal districts will be more aggressive to bring values up.

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The formulas are set...arent they? how can they play games with appraisal values...and anyway values are going down...so they wont be able to raise values in the current environment. Which maybe why they're being so cautious in raising the exemption.

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When housing values are going down, they can always raise raw land values. Very hard to find comps and contest land value appraisals.

WestAustinAg said:

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BCG Disciple said:

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Exemption increasing by $40k only means appraisal districts will be more aggressive to bring values up.

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The formulas are set...arent they? how can they play games with appraisal values...and anyway values are going down...so they wont be able to raise values in the current environment. Which maybe why they're being so cautious in raising the exemption.

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Formulas are set? Yes, they can only bump the assessment up 10% if homesteaded, but they'll still bump the value and get you next year. I would say my market value through the appraisal district is still about 20% lower than what I could get when I see sales in my neighborhood. Not sure what yours is. There is certainly room for them to be more aggressive.

BCG Disciple said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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BCG Disciple said:

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Exemption increasing by $40k only means appraisal districts will be more aggressive to bring values up.

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The formulas are set...arent they? how can they play games with appraisal values...and anyway values are going down...so they wont be able to raise values in the current environment. Which maybe why they're being so cautious in raising the exemption.

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Formulas are set? Yes, they can only bump the assessment up 10% if homesteaded, but they'll still bump the value and get you next year. I would say my market value through the appraisal district is still about 20% lower than what I could get when I see sales in my neighborhood. Not sure what yours is. There is certainly room for them to be more aggressive.

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Stop approving bonds. The bonds are what drives up the tax bill no matter the appraisal.

The appraisal system is rigged to make money for protest companies, but it is the debt service that causes taxes to go up.

fc2112 said:

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There are a lot of counties in Texas without a single structure valued over $300,000.

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Name one. I assume you mean residential structures, not ag or commercial buildings, which helps, but still, any sound structure without wheels is bumping up on multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars in replacement value. If you're talking appraised values are artificially low, then that is another point.

I could guess Reeves or maybe Hudspeth (might be high$ homes off in the mountains there, though). Fewer than you would think.

lb3 said:

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All taxes are theft but property taxes are the least worst of the available options because it promotes productive use of the land.

I sometimes think that the people complaining the loudest are the same people who celebrate tax returns.

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This is just a silly argument.

And, honestly, if I have a piece of land that I have an ag or wildlife exemption on that I pay say $500 in taxes per year, why on earth would I entertain the idea of improving that land so I can pay multiple thousands of dollars in taxes?

Beyond that, "productive use" of land is highly subjective. Not every damn piece of land needs to be a housing development, strip mall, solar farm or warehouse.

I complain about property taxes because the entire system is a friggin scam. Your property is the only thing you buy that gets taxed as if you bought it every year, except like your income, you have no idea what the tax will be year in and year out and the only way to fight it is to go to the very government that is demanding your money and trying to negotiate a lower robbery rate.

Oh, and even when you pay for your property mortgage free and clear, you still have an annual duty to the crown to buy their permission and have the luxury to stay on that property. Yay!

And property tax isn't anywhere close to the least worst of the available options. It's just the option that every Texan is accustomed to, so the belief is that it is the only way it can be done because the overwhelming majority of Texans never leave the state for any extended period of time and have no clue that things are done differently in other areas of the country.

BCG Disciple said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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BCG Disciple said:

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Exemption increasing by $40k only means appraisal districts will be more aggressive to bring values up.

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The formulas are set...arent they? how can they play games with appraisal values...and anyway values are going down...so they wont be able to raise values in the current environment. Which maybe why they're being so cautious in raising the exemption.

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Formulas are set? Yes, they can only bump the assessment up 10% if homesteaded, but they'll still bump the value and get you next year. I would say my market value through the appraisal district is still about 20% lower than what I could get when I see sales in my neighborhood. Not sure what yours is. There is certainly room for them to be more aggressive.

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I was just under the belief that they have a formula for how to determine value. They use sales values as the prime way to determine home values in a neighborhood. Maybe they have some other pieces of data that go into it. I hope that formula or algorithm is NOT susceptible to manipulation. Maybe it is...

AustinScubaAg said:

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BCG Disciple said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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BCG Disciple said:

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Exemption increasing by $40k only means appraisal districts will be more aggressive to bring values up.

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The formulas are set...arent they? how can they play games with appraisal values...and anyway values are going down...so they wont be able to raise values in the current environment. Which maybe why they're being so cautious in raising the exemption.

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Formulas are set? Yes, they can only bump the assessment up 10% if homesteaded, but they'll still bump the value and get you next year. I would say my market value through the appraisal district is still about 20% lower than what I could get when I see sales in my neighborhood. Not sure what yours is. There is certainly room for them to be more aggressive.

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Stop approving bonds. The bonds are what drives up the tax bill no matter the appraisal.

The appraisal system is rigged to make money for protest companies, but it is the debt service that causes taxes to go up.

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This has to become our mindset in Texas. Stop saying yes to every school districts desire to spend 500 million on a football field and related facilities. Stop paying for a 50 million theater complex. Just stop all the insanity. And never approve bond packages that cover short term or operational budget issues.

In FY24 Texas property tax collections were $86.8 B. These monies are all for local government finance, be it cities or special districts or school districts. The state does not directly spend property tax revenues. (It does take local property tax revenue into account in the public school funding formula so there is some state redirection of property tax revenues among local entities.)

Will gambling save us? Taking midpoint of the estimates for casinos, sports betting, and expanded lottery, these would generate $3.1 B per year in aggregate. That could fund a 3.6% reduction in property taxes if estimates are realized and if government spending doesn't rise in response to these new revenues. Any reduction would be welcome, but this will hardly be a major reduction in property taxes.

Someone mentioned the sales tax. The state government rate is 6.25%, and local entities (cities, counties) can tack on up to 2%. In FY 24 state sales tax revenue was $47.2B, and local sales tax revenue was about $15.3 B. If a local tax rate of 2% generates $15.3 B, it will be no small increase in the rate to generate an increase in local sales tax revenue that will replace the current $86.8 B of property taxes. (We would need an 11 percentage point increase in the sales tax rate, so the current 8.25% would rise to 19.25%. That's a European VAT - sized rate.)

For some additional perspective, total state government taxes in FY24 were $81.9B, with state sales taxes the largest single item at $47.2B.

Absent very significant spending cuts *at the local level*, a replacement for the property tax is probably going to require a state income tax.

IRS data for 2022 indicates that total AGI for Texas individual income tax returns was $1,252 B and there were 13,641,000 returns file, so average AGI per return was just under $92,000. To replace the $86.8B Texas collected as property taxes, we could have a flat rate tax of just under 7% on the AGI reported on federal individual income tax returns filed in Texas.

Before someone mentions corporations, the federal corporate income tax revenue collected on Texas returns was about 10% of the federal individual income tax collections in Texas.

We complain about the property tax but we don't have a state income tax. From my perspective, that's a fair trade. Obviously opinions vary.

Also -- please don't construe anything I have written as a justification for the level of spending by our state and local governments. Obviously it is that level of spending that drives the 'need' for the current levels of state and local tax collections. So, if you want lower taxes, what spending would you cut?

F that! I would pay > $60k in state income tax versus $12k in property taxes.

The issue i have is thus

2020 appraisal brings in X amount of revenue

2021 appraisal brings in Y amount of revenue

2022 appraisal brings in Z amount of revenue

2023 appraisal brings in B amount of revenue

2024 appraisal brings in D amount of revenue



in each year there is likely some amount of new revenue due to new construction

In each year there there may be some fluctuation as it pertains to city/state/county individual tax rate

Yearly revenues have gone up each year, not at full valuation as some municipalities have altered some rates as to try to offset the increase on the tax payer

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The yearly appraisal(to my knowledge) is mandated by the state comptroller via law passed by our own state govt

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As property values have increased over the past 20 years, the rate of increase has far exceeded inflation

The rate of increase has far outpaced my own salary increase

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Municipalities have enjoyed an ever increasing budget with no limit in sight

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1. Revenues ought to be frozen at some acceptable level across the state, lest you take it to the voters

2. Bond issues can still be held as normal

3. Future revenue increases or decreases should be tied to the growth or shrinkage in overall income

4. SPENDING IS OUT OF CONTROL, it should be curtailed at every level.

5. I see no reason we cant rewrite the comptrollers directive and suspend these yearly evaluations to some other interval. How much is spent in time and money protesting these things? It's wasteful.

6. In all of these past few years has anyone ever stated a need for additional revenue?

One can certainly argue that spending on certain things allows for growth or that you have to spend to provide services and infrastructure to the areas that have already grown. At some point the growth is negative as is compares to the individuals standard and cost of living.





We are in a housing valuation boom that far exceeds income growth for most residents


and for those that would make the 50's house comparison. I live in a modest home built in the 50s in BCS( a 3/2), not a modern 2800 sq ft home.

schmellba99 said:

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lb3 said:

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All taxes are theft but property taxes are the least worst of the available options because it promotes productive use of the land.

I sometimes think that the people complaining the loudest are the same people who celebrate tax returns.

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This is just a silly argument.

And, honestly, if I have a piece of land that I have an ag or wildlife exemption on that I pay say $500 in taxes per year, why on earth would I entertain the idea of improving that land so I can pay multiple thousands of dollars in taxes?

Beyond that, "productive use" of land is highly subjective. Not every damn piece of land needs to be a housing development, strip mall, solar farm or warehouse.

I complain about property taxes because the entire system is a friggin scam. Your property is the only thing you buy that gets taxed as if you bought it every year, except like your income, you have no idea what the tax will be year in and year out and the only way to fight it is to go to the very government that is demanding your money and trying to negotiate a lower robbery rate.

Oh, and even when you pay for your property mortgage free and clear, you still have an annual duty to the crown to buy their permission and have the luxury to stay on that property. Yay!

And property tax isn't anywhere close to the least worst of the available options. It's just the option that every Texan is accustomed to, so the belief is that it is the only way it can be done because the overwhelming majority of Texans never leave the state for any extended period of time and have no clue that things are done differently in other areas of the country.

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We kind of do at this point. You can pretty much bank on a 10% increase every year.

pacecar02 said:

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The issue i have is thus

2020 appraisal brings in X amount of revenue

2021 appraisal brings in Y amount of revenue

2022 appraisal brings in Z amount of revenue

2023 appraisal brings in B amount of revenue

2024 appraisal brings in D amount of revenue



in each year there is likely some amount of new revenue due to new construction

In each year there there may be some fluctuation as it pertains to city/state/county individual tax rate

Yearly revenues have gone up each year, not at full valuation as some municipalities have altered some rates as to try to offset the increase on the tax payer

________________________

The yearly appraisal(to my knowledge) is mandated by the state comptroller via law passed by our own state govt

________________________


As property values have increased over the past 20 years, the rate of increase has far exceeded inflation

The rate of increase has far outpaced my own salary increase

________________________

Municipalities have enjoyed an ever increasing budget with no limit in sight

________________________

1. Revenues ought to be frozen at some acceptable level across the state, lest you take it to the voters

2. Bond issues can still be held as normal

3. Future revenue increases or decreases should be tied to the growth or shrinkage in overall income

4. SPENDING IS OUT OF CONTROL, it should be curtailed at every level.

5. I see no reason we cant rewrite the comptrollers directive and suspend these yearly evaluations to some other interval. How much is spent in time and money protesting these things? It's wasteful.

6. In all of these past few years has anyone ever stated a need for additional revenue?

One can certainly argue that spending on certain things allows for growth or that you have to spend to provide services and infrastructure to the areas that have already grown. At some point the growth is negative as is compares to the individuals standard and cost of living.





We are in a housing valuation boom that far exceeds income growth for most residents


and for those that would make the 50's house comparison. I live in a modest home built in the 50s in BCS( a 3/2), not a modern 2800 sq ft home.

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Revenue (excluding debt service) is capped at 3% increase a year without voter approval. The tax rate cannot be set to create more revenue. Your analogy would be correct if not for this cap. As I stated earlier it is voter approved bonds that drive the tax rate up.

I'm tracking with you there

But why then is it needed to adjust appraisals.every year?

I just love that we get an extra $40k exemption.

They raised the value of my 2 acres by $20k each acre

Washington County says hold my beer to any relief

Exactly, all these efforts are like 1 or 2 year band aids, if that

schmellba99 said:

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lb3 said:

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All taxes are theft but property taxes are the least worst of the available options because it promotes productive use of the land.

I sometimes think that the people complaining the loudest are the same people who celebrate tax returns.

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This is just a silly argument.

And, honestly, if I have a piece of land that I have an ag or wildlife exemption on that I pay say $500 in taxes per year, why on earth would I entertain the idea of improving that land so I can pay multiple thousands of dollars in taxes?

Beyond that, "productive use" of land is highly subjective. Not every damn piece of land needs to be a housing development, strip mall, solar farm or warehouse.

I complain about property taxes because the entire system is a friggin scam. Your property is the only thing you buy that gets taxed as if you bought it every year, except like your income, you have no idea what the tax will be year in and year out and the only way to fight it is to go to the very government that is demanding your money and trying to negotiate a lower robbery rate.

Oh, and even when you pay for your property mortgage free and clear, you still have an annual duty to the crown to buy their permission and have the luxury to stay on that property. Yay!

And property tax isn't anywhere close to the least worst of the available options. It's just the option that every Texan is accustomed to, so the belief is that it is the only way it can be done because the overwhelming majority of Texans never leave the state for any extended period of time and have no clue that things are done differently in other areas of the country.

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Name one other tax that encourages economic activity.

pacecar02 said:

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I'm tracking with you there

But why then is it needed to adjust appraisals.every year?

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Yearly appraisals try and keep the tax burden fair (though in truth the Homestead exemption mess that up). The goal of the cap is to prevent out of control spending but only works if voters stop approving insane bonds.

mrad85 said:

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I just love that we get an extra $40k exemption.

They raised the value of my 2 acres by $20k each acre

Washington County says hold my beer to any relief

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How convenient.

ts5641 said:

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If they wanted to change this they would've by now. They clearly don't and won't. But it is completely out of hand at this point.

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Bingo, Texas Republicans like the talking point but they aren't for you. Their pockets are lined with business owners money, that's who they answer to.

Property Tax relief is a joke, it needs to be strangled and smothered with extreme prejudice, we need leadership!

YouBet said:

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mrad85 said:

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I just love that we get an extra $40k exemption.

They raised the value of my 2 acres by $20k each acre

Washington County says hold my beer to any relief

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How convenient.

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CAD issues are excellent examples of Hanlon's Razor:
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Tbh the CAD is populated with people that struggle to explain the difference between cost, price, and value; or highest & best use.

If you can't walk in and get your property value lowered during protest season, either the CAD made a mistake & arrived at a correct opinion of value, or you're ******ed.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Property taxes are a tax on unrealized gains, which I thought Republicans were against.

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The original premise makes sense though.

It was intended to fund public services like police and fire, that would protect your property.

The greater value your property, the more you have to protect essentially the more you pay.