https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/i-owe-the-libertarians-an-apology

You can color me unsurprised about the timing. The timing is absolutely aimed at progressing leftist causes by trying to isolate Trump. But, in all fairness, Trump brought this type of criticism on himself.

Key points from the article:

1) He still thinks Libertarians are too ideological, and not pragmatic enough. I still agree with Smith here.
2) He praised Paul Rand for sticking to his principles and asking congress to challenge Trump on tariffs.
3) He praised Milton Friedman for being mostly correct
4) He chastises the left for not speaking out against their own party when they do stupid stuff
5) He longs for the days of Reagan leading the right, and partially blames the left for giving power to Trump.
6) He prefers the politics of Javier Milei over Trump, which is interesting. I think if he looked more closely at what Milei is doing, he might not continue to have that opinion. A big part of Milei's politics is to absolutely destroy the welfare state, something that Smith would absolutely not tolerate.

I absolutely believe that Smith will crawfish from this very soon, and turn back into a leftist mouthpiece. But, I think that this is very important. This could be one of the first cracks of respected leftist intellectuals moving hard towards the middle.

That is very dangerous, in my view, as we need a whole hell of a lot more clean-up of government corruption before the left turns towards the middle. They WILL get back into office again at some point. The only question is how far towards the middle will they have to go to regain power.

We have plenty of threads on the good, bad, and ugly of the Trump tariffs. Please don't repeat that discussion here. What I find more interesting is this tactic being used by Smith. He is not-so-subtly paying homage to Sowell with this article. If Smith is truly going through a Sowell type transformation, that would be a good thing. I'm not holding my breath.

Meh, he still is has a basic misunderstanding of markets and of economics. The only thing he is lamenting is that the old-school GOP had some libertarian roots to it, whereas the Trump GOP does not, and he doesn't like Trump. There is no movement on his side, just on what the GOP has become.

Libertarianism is every bit as pie in the sky as communism. It doesn't work with human nature.

Libertarians have been directionally correct about every major political issue over the last 60-80 years. It just takes time for the public and the monied interests of political parties to take notice.

Pookers said:

---

Libertarianism is every bit as pie in the sky as communism. It doesn't work with human nature.

---

This also is a misunderstanding of Libertarianism. Thinking that government can better control human nature than the individual is dumb and ignores millennia of evidence to the contrary. Libertarianism, in its core, might not be perfect in execution, but it works better than anything else in execution.

Pookers said:

---

Libertarianism is every bit as pie in the sky as communism. It doesn't work with human nature.

---

Both presuppose that men are angels, but communism misses the human behavior and motivation more severely. English colonists (with strict moral culture) who tried collectivism died of starvation. English colonists who observed private property and non-aggression built growing communities.

Libertarianism =/= Anarchism

It is the recognition that there is almost nothing that the government can do more efficiently or morally than the individual regulating their own best interests as it interacts with interests of those around them. That is not just economically based, which is a common mischaracterization of Libertarianism, but morally based as well.

tysker said:

---

Libertarians have been directionally correct about every major political issue over the last 60-80 years. It just takes time for the public and the monied interests of political parties to take notice.

---

Conceptually..

Quote:

---

Libertarianism =/= Anarchism

It is the recognition that there is almost nothing that the government can do more efficiently or morally than the individual regulating their own best interests as it interacts with interests of those around them. That is not just economically based, which is a common mischaracterization of Libertarianism, but morally based as well.

---

Sure, but the problem is that it's not applied only to individuals. It's applied to societies and communities collectively.

So while an individual can do better than the government, there are also a lot of individuals who can't/won't.There are just a lot of people who suck. Who want no personal responsibility and will do things that harm/hinder you and I.

That sometimes gets lost in libertarianism.

Phatbob said:

---

Meh, he still is has a basic misunderstanding of markets and of economics. The only thing he is lamenting is that the old-school GOP had some libertarian roots to it, whereas the Trump GOP does not, and he doesn't like Trump. There is no movement on his side, just on what the GOP has become.

---

There's a reason Biden did not unwind the original Trump tariffs. And there's a reason why you don't read/hear about the Sanders/Warren/AOC-style Progressives flipping out on Trump's protectionist economic policies.

The GOP has undeniably moved toward Progressivist economic policies.

AgGrad99 said:

---

Sure, but the problem is that it's not applied to individuals. It's applied to societies and communities.

So while an individual can do better than the government, there are also a lot of individuals who can't.

That sometimes gets lost in libertarianism.

---

There are always going to be individual failures. That is not lost in libertarianism at all. The problems brought about with individual misbehavior is easy to point out, but also easier to guard against. The problems with collective "fixes" are that the unintended consequences of those fixes make them worse, or at best, a wash over the libertarian alternative way of dealing with the issue, but just try and address the problems with the collective "fix" and you'll see how difficult that is. What do you think DOGE is trying to address, but finding it so hard to do? THAT is the problem even with the modern version of Conservatism, is that it is still collectivist in nature.

It's not just failures though. There are evil people who will take advantage of you and I, given the chance. I dont think it's an easy fix, in either case. And there are unintended consequences regardless.

I'm ok with protecting our free society, so it can remain so. Though admittedly, that goes way too far at times.

(I'm not against libertarianism, and have voted for their candidates multiple times)

Get Off My Lawn said:

---

Pookers said:

---

Libertarianism is every bit as pie in the sky as communism. It doesn't work with human nature.

---

Both presuppose that men are angels, but communism misses the human behavior and motivation more severely. English colonists (with strict moral culture) who tried collectivism died of starvation. English colonists who observed private property and non-aggression built growing communities.

---

The US has never been libertarian. The federalists where up in everybodies business.

Who is this guy and why should anyone give a single **** what he thinks, in any direction?

I don't understand looking to other people to confirm my personal principles.

tysker said:

---

Libertarians have been directionally correct about every major political issue over the last 60-80 years. It just takes time for the public and the monied interests of political parties to take notice.

---

Unfettered immigration says hello. Completely wrong on this one. Same with legality of ALL drugs. Generally I like the freedom and leave me alone aspects of Libertarianism but it can go to dumb places when you don't pay attention to reality.

kag00 said:

---

tysker said:

---

Libertarians have been directionally correct about every major political issue over the last 60-80 years. It just takes time for the public and the monied interests of political parties to take notice.

---

Unfettered immigration says hello. Completely wrong on this one. Same with legality of ALL drugs. Generally I like the freedom and leave me alone aspects of Libertarianism but it can go to dumb places when you don't pay attention to reality.

---

The problems are less with the amount of immigration than with the cost of social services provided to everyone who comes in. Remove every social service given out like candy, like the Libertarian model, and immigration goes to a manageable level, even unfettered.

tysker said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Meh, he still is has a basic misunderstanding of markets and of economics. The only thing he is lamenting is that the old-school GOP had some libertarian roots to it, whereas the Trump GOP does not, and he doesn't like Trump. There is no movement on his side, just on what the GOP has become.

---

There's a reason Biden did not unwind the original Trump tariffs. And there's a reason why you don't read/hear about the Sanders/Warren/AOC-style Progressives flipping out on Trump's protectionist economic policies.

The GOP has undeniably moved toward Progressivist economic policies on tariffs, for now.

---

How else has the GOP moved hard progressive on economics?

BigRobSA said:

---

Who is this guy and why should anyone give a single **** what he thinks, in any direction?

---

He's a commentator and intellectual in the econ / political space. I would say he's on the fringes of the "intellectual dark web".

He gets cited to by other commentators. I think his biggest interview yet was Larry Summers, which is a lot more than nothing. If it helps, he was asked by the NYT to replace Krugman, but refused.

Quote:

---

I don't understand looking to other people to confirm my personal principles.

---

This surprises me absolutely none.

BusterAg said:

---

tysker said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Meh, he still is has a basic misunderstanding of markets and of economics. The only thing he is lamenting is that the old-school GOP had some libertarian roots to it, whereas the Trump GOP does not, and he doesn't like Trump. There is no movement on his side, just on what the GOP has become.

---

There's a reason Biden did not unwind the original Trump tariffs. And there's a reason why you don't read/hear about the Sanders/Warren/AOC-style Progressives flipping out on Trump's protectionist economic policies.

The GOP has undeniably moved toward Progressivist economic policies on tariffs, for now.

---

How else has the GOP moved hard progressive on economics?

---

kag00 said:

---

tysker said:

---

Libertarians have been directionally correct about every major political issue over the last 60-80 years. It just takes time for the public and the monied interests of political parties to take notice.

---

Unfettered immigration says hello. Completely wrong on this one. Same with legality of ALL drugs. Generally I like the freedom and leave me alone aspects of Libertarianism but it can go to dumb places when you don't pay attention to reality.

---

This is an uninformed take. The only prominent 'unfettered immigration' libertarian thinker I am aware of is Bryan Caplan. I would argue your average libertarian simply wants Congress to get its **** together, create better regulations and actually enforce them.

BusterAg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

Who is this guy and why should anyone give a single **** what he thinks, in any direction?

---

He's a commentator and intellectual in the econ / political space. I would say he's on the fringes of the "intellectual dark web".

He gets cited to by other commentators. I think his biggest interview yet was Larry Summers, which is a lot more than nothing. If it helps, he was asked by the NYT to replace Krugman, but refused.

---

Noah is a College Station native interestingly, and graduated from A&M Consolidated High School.

BusterAg said:

---

tysker said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Meh, he still is has a basic misunderstanding of markets and of economics. The only thing he is lamenting is that the old-school GOP had some libertarian roots to it, whereas the Trump GOP does not, and he doesn't like Trump. There is no movement on his side, just on what the GOP has become.

---

There's a reason Biden did not unwind the original Trump tariffs. And there's a reason why you don't read/hear about the Sanders/Warren/AOC-style Progressives flipping out on Trump's protectionist economic policies.

The GOP has undeniably moved toward Progressivist economic policies on tariffs, for now.

---

How else has the GOP moved hard progressive on economics?

---

Some us remember when the GOP was going to roll back Obamacare. Some of us remember when the GOP considered personal retirement accounts for younger workers in an effort to offer personal retirement options other than Social Security.

The GOP is burdened by voters needing the same welfare state as the DNC. From chatgpt:

Quote:

---

President Donald Trump has publicly stated that he will not cut Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid benefits. In a town hall event on April 30, 2025, he affirmed, "We're not doing anything with entitlements" . Additionally, a White House article from March 2025 reiterated that the administration will not cut these programs .[url=https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/03/fact-check-president-trump-will-always-protect-social-security-medicare/?utm_source=chatgpt.com][/url]

---

Ribbed Paultz said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

Who is this guy and why should anyone give a single **** what he thinks, in any direction?

---

He's a commentator and intellectual in the econ / political space. I would say he's on the fringes of the "intellectual dark web".

He gets cited to by other commentators. I think his biggest interview yet was Larry Summers, which is a lot more than nothing. If it helps, he was asked by the NYT to replace Krugman, but refused.

---

Noah is a College Station native interestingly, and graduated from A&M Consolidated High School.

---

He has posted on TexAgs before. I liked his posts and have been following him since he was a grad student at Michigan.

tysker said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

tysker said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Meh, he still is has a basic misunderstanding of markets and of economics. The only thing he is lamenting is that the old-school GOP had some libertarian roots to it, whereas the Trump GOP does not, and he doesn't like Trump. There is no movement on his side, just on what the GOP has become.

---

There's a reason Biden did not unwind the original Trump tariffs. And there's a reason why you don't read/hear about the Sanders/Warren/AOC-style Progressives flipping out on Trump's protectionist economic policies.

The GOP has undeniably moved toward Progressivist economic policies on tariffs, for now.

---

How else has the GOP moved hard progressive on economics?

---

Some us remember when the GOP was going to roll back Obamacare. Some of us remember when the GOP considered personal retirement accounts for younger workers in an effort to offer personal retirement options other than Social Security.

The GOP is burdened by voters needing the same welfare state as the DNC. From chatgpt:

Quote:

---

President Donald Trump has publicly stated that he will not cut Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid benefits. In a town hall event on April 30, 2025, he affirmed, "We're not doing anything with entitlements" . Additionally, a White House article from March 2025 reiterated that the administration will not cut these programs .[url=https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/2025/03/fact-check-president-trump-will-always-protect-social-security-medicare/?utm_source=chatgpt.com][/url]

---

---

These are great ideas. Who was going to win the presidency and enact them?

I am more concerned with rolling back the Chicago-style corruption in DC first, because the GOP is never going to win again until that is done, and RIOs are just as bad as Dems.

I am on record about the Fiscal Stimulus in 2020. Was not-so-smart in 2020, but not dumb. Was super dumb starting in 2021.