True, but it sounds like they're subcontracting to existing infrastructure, which is good all around. That would bring production online quicker and strengthen other domestic players in the semiconductor field that already have installed assets.torrid said:
It takes a long time and a lot of money to bring a semiconductor plant online. This had to be something that was already in the works.
torrid said:
It takes a long time and a lot of money to bring a semiconductor plant online. This had to be something that was already in the works.
Super interesting. Got any good links?Quote:
The announcement is that downselect and fab qual has NVIDIA using these fabs for Blackwell, which is interesting because I've been hearing of yield problems in Samsung Taylor, but anything to get around tarriffs.
I can try digging some up for you, but i work for a semi contract manufacturer who competes with TSMC and Samsung Foundry so I just kind of hear things from time to time.ShinerAggie said:Super interesting. Got any good links?Quote:
The announcement is that downselect and fab qual has NVIDIA using these fabs for Blackwell, which is interesting because I've been hearing of yield problems in Samsung Taylor, but anything to get around tarriffs.
Well, they can punish the employees all they want, but yields are directly proportional to cleanliness and manufacturing tidiness. If they want to make top dollar but pay for bottom dollar talent, I can imagine where that leads!BadMoonRisin said:I can try digging some up for you, but i work for a semi contract manufacturer who competes with TSMC and Samsung Foundry so I just kind of hear things from time to time.ShinerAggie said:Super interesting. Got any good links?Quote:
The announcement is that downselect and fab qual has NVIDIA using these fabs for Blackwell, which is interesting because I've been hearing of yield problems in Samsung Taylor, but anything to get around tarriffs.
My wife also works for Taylor ISD so she hears stuff too.
https://www.trendforce.com/news/2024/09/12/news-samsungs-2nm-yield-rate-at-most-20-withdraws-personnel-from-texas-taylor-plant/
At one point Samsung sent their employees back to Austin because the yield rates were so low. This article was just 6 months ago.
edit: According to the article, though, they aren't using the Taylor fab at all, they are using Winstrom and Foxconn to assemble the supercomputers, so basically an ODM like Dell uses overseas to put their stuff together. TSMC is running Blackwell wafers out of Phoenix.
Fair point. 70% compensation relatively and they are getting 20% yield. Hmmm wonder why. They hired John Deere mechanics to be process engineers.ShinerAggie said:Well, they can punish the employees all they want, but yields are directly proportional to cleanliness and manufacturing tidiness. If they want to make top dollar but pay for bottom dollar talent, I can imagine where that leads!BadMoonRisin said:I can try digging some up for you, but i work for a semi contract manufacturer who competes with TSMC and Samsung Foundry so I just kind of hear things from time to time.ShinerAggie said:Super interesting. Got any good links?Quote:
The announcement is that downselect and fab qual has NVIDIA using these fabs for Blackwell, which is interesting because I've been hearing of yield problems in Samsung Taylor, but anything to get around tarriffs.
My wife also works for Taylor ISD so she hears stuff too.
https://www.trendforce.com/news/2024/09/12/news-samsungs-2nm-yield-rate-at-most-20-withdraws-personnel-from-texas-taylor-plant/
At one point Samsung sent their employees back to Austin because the yield rates were so low. This article was just 6 months ago.
edit: According to the article, though, they aren't using the Taylor fab at all, they are using Winstrom and Foxconn to assemble the supercomputers, so basically an ODM like Dell uses overseas to put their stuff together. TSMC is running Blackwell wafers out of Phoenix.
Please tell me how this is the case. I'm sincerely interested in how this could be the case.pfo said:
I think robots will eventually do most of the work. Robots could even up the playing field on the USA's disadvantage on wage and benefits compensation for employeesP
Process controls have and will continue to become more and more automated, but we're a long way from automated semiconductor fabrication. PCB fab and assembly are already highly automated, but even then you need technicians, operators and engineers for the equipment.pfo said:
I think robots will eventually do most of the work. Robots could even up the playing field on the USA's disadvantage on wage and benefits compensation for employees.
RED AG 98 said:Process controls have and will continue to become more and more automated, but we're a long way from automated semiconductor fabrication. PCB fab and assembly are already highly automated, but even then you need technicians, operators and engineers for the equipment.pfo said:
I think robots will eventually do most of the work. Robots could even up the playing field on the USA's disadvantage on wage and benefits compensation for employees.
AI might the next next frontier. First, we have to be able to build the advanced nodes in country. And continue to keep China from being able to pursue or develop sub 5nm.
It costs too much to operate Fabs in the US and Europe. This is the facts.ShinerAggie said:Well, they can punish the employees all they want, but yields are directly proportional to cleanliness and manufacturing tidiness. If they want to make top dollar but pay for bottom dollar talent, I can imagine where that leads!BadMoonRisin said:I can try digging some up for you, but i work for a semi contract manufacturer who competes with TSMC and Samsung Foundry so I just kind of hear things from time to time.ShinerAggie said:Super interesting. Got any good links?Quote:
The announcement is that downselect and fab qual has NVIDIA using these fabs for Blackwell, which is interesting because I've been hearing of yield problems in Samsung Taylor, but anything to get around tarriffs.
My wife also works for Taylor ISD so she hears stuff too.
https://www.trendforce.com/news/2024/09/12/news-samsungs-2nm-yield-rate-at-most-20-withdraws-personnel-from-texas-taylor-plant/
At one point Samsung sent their employees back to Austin because the yield rates were so low. This article was just 6 months ago.
edit: According to the article, though, they aren't using the Taylor fab at all, they are using Winstrom and Foxconn to assemble the supercomputers, so basically an ODM like Dell uses overseas to put their stuff together. TSMC is running Blackwell wafers out of Phoenix.
BadMoonRisin said:torrid said:
It takes a long time and a lot of money to bring a semiconductor plant online. This had to be something that was already in the works.
They broke ground in Phoenix and Talylor in 2022, but i believe the deal had been in the works during trumps term.
The announcement is that downselect and fab qual has NVIDIA using these fabs for Blackwell, which is interesting because I've been hearing of yield problems in Samsung Taylor, but anything to get around tarriffs.
The demand is coming. Basically all RFQs we see now are requiring non-PRC non-Taiwan manufacturing by 2030. Regardless of tariffs or anything else, COVID exposed this as this national security risk it is. The government and major US companies are doing what they can to ensure that kind of scenario cannot happen again.astros4545 said:BadMoonRisin said:torrid said:
It takes a long time and a lot of money to bring a semiconductor plant online. This had to be something that was already in the works.
They broke ground in Phoenix and Talylor in 2022, but i believe the deal had been in the works during trumps term.
The announcement is that downselect and fab qual has NVIDIA using these fabs for Blackwell, which is interesting because I've been hearing of yield problems in Samsung Taylor, but anything to get around tarriffs.
There have been no tools installed in Taylor yet
No demand, no rush to start production
I think a large part of its failure is the woke nonsense requirements completely unrelated to the fabrication of semiconductors (DEI, mandating things such as childcare, etc, etc).samurai_science said:It costs too much to operate Fabs in the US and Europe. This is the facts.ShinerAggie said:Well, they can punish the employees all they want, but yields are directly proportional to cleanliness and manufacturing tidiness. If they want to make top dollar but pay for bottom dollar talent, I can imagine where that leads!BadMoonRisin said:I can try digging some up for you, but i work for a semi contract manufacturer who competes with TSMC and Samsung Foundry so I just kind of hear things from time to time.ShinerAggie said:Super interesting. Got any good links?Quote:
The announcement is that downselect and fab qual has NVIDIA using these fabs for Blackwell, which is interesting because I've been hearing of yield problems in Samsung Taylor, but anything to get around tarriffs.
My wife also works for Taylor ISD so she hears stuff too.
https://www.trendforce.com/news/2024/09/12/news-samsungs-2nm-yield-rate-at-most-20-withdraws-personnel-from-texas-taylor-plant/
At one point Samsung sent their employees back to Austin because the yield rates were so low. This article was just 6 months ago.
edit: According to the article, though, they aren't using the Taylor fab at all, they are using Winstrom and Foxconn to assemble the supercomputers, so basically an ODM like Dell uses overseas to put their stuff together. TSMC is running Blackwell wafers out of Phoenix.
The CHIPS Act was a failure, because at some point the tax payers money goes away and you still have to operate the fabs.
I am an industrial I&E contractor in Houstonsamurai_science said:It costs too much to operate Fabs in the US and Europe. This is the facts.ShinerAggie said:Well, they can punish the employees all they want, but yields are directly proportional to cleanliness and manufacturing tidiness. If they want to make top dollar but pay for bottom dollar talent, I can imagine where that leads!BadMoonRisin said:I can try digging some up for you, but i work for a semi contract manufacturer who competes with TSMC and Samsung Foundry so I just kind of hear things from time to time.ShinerAggie said:Super interesting. Got any good links?Quote:
The announcement is that downselect and fab qual has NVIDIA using these fabs for Blackwell, which is interesting because I've been hearing of yield problems in Samsung Taylor, but anything to get around tarriffs.
My wife also works for Taylor ISD so she hears stuff too.
https://www.trendforce.com/news/2024/09/12/news-samsungs-2nm-yield-rate-at-most-20-withdraws-personnel-from-texas-taylor-plant/
At one point Samsung sent their employees back to Austin because the yield rates were so low. This article was just 6 months ago.
edit: According to the article, though, they aren't using the Taylor fab at all, they are using Winstrom and Foxconn to assemble the supercomputers, so basically an ODM like Dell uses overseas to put their stuff together. TSMC is running Blackwell wafers out of Phoenix.
The CHIPS Act was a failure, because at some point the tax payers money goes away and you still have to operate the fabs.
TyHolden said:
Rellis is building a super computer as well....probably why we're adding semiconductors out there as well.
https://news.tamus.edu/texas-am-system-triples-supercomputing-capacity/
MouthBQ98 said:
I'm involved in providing services to Samsung in Taylor and I am pretty sure they are still only under construction out there, no production yet. Samsung has had a large facility south of Pflugerville for years and they may be doing some sort of production there.
They are making rapid steady progress in Taylor so far as I can see.
This is probably true.torrid said:
It takes a long time and a lot of money to bring a semiconductor plant online. This had to be something that was already in the works.
True, but we also have a government that wants to cut regulations and that may make things happen a lot faster.torrid said:
It takes a long time and a lot of money to bring a semiconductor plant online. This had to be something that was already in the works.
aggie93 said:True, but we also have a government that wants to cut regulations and that may make things happen a lot faster.torrid said:
It takes a long time and a lot of money to bring a semiconductor plant online. This had to be something that was already in the works.
Yes but most of the reasons for the delays of the TSMC plants for instance in Arizona have been due to governmental interference. You can't snap your fingers and make a giant semiconductor plant appear with all of the equipment and training involved by any stretch, hell the security and cleanliness alone required is extreme. That said having a cooperative government makes a real difference and encourages additional investment.RED AG 98 said:aggie93 said:True, but we also have a government that wants to cut regulations and that may make things happen a lot faster.torrid said:
It takes a long time and a lot of money to bring a semiconductor plant online. This had to be something that was already in the works.
True, but regulations are a very small part of why qualifying a semiconductor fab takes so long. It mostly is a lengthy process because it's very difficult.
