McInnis 03 said:

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Can you imagine AggieKatie2 at home last night asking her husband "wow, did you see the hornets nest I stirred up on TexAgs today? SHEESH!"

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No kidding! Everyone has an opinion on each other's kids. I guess it's always been that way but funny to see the stereotypes. They were definitely entertaining to read and some were probably just trolling to get people worked up. :-)

wreckncrew said:

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McInnis 03 said:

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Can you imagine AggieKatie2 at home last night asking her husband "wow, did you see the hornets nest I stirred up on TexAgs today? SHEESH!"

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No kidding! Everyone has an opinion on each other's kids. I guess it's always been that way but funny to see the stereotypes. They were definitely entertaining to read and some were probably just trolling to get people worked up. :-)

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my wife and i talked about this thread so i can only imagine what her convo was like.

If your kid isn't elite or trending towards elite, time to drop the charade of needing to do a hobby 4 hours a day.

evestor1 said:

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wreckncrew said:

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McInnis 03 said:

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Can you imagine AggieKatie2 at home last night asking her husband "wow, did you see the hornets nest I stirred up on TexAgs today? SHEESH!"

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No kidding! Everyone has an opinion on each other's kids. I guess it's always been that way but funny to see the stereotypes. They were definitely entertaining to read and some were probably just trolling to get people worked up. :-)

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my wife and i talked about this thread so i can only imagine what her convo was like.

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It has been a very interesting read, and yes we discussed a lot of the back and forth. We were both raised in smaller public school districts, so we see a lot of the pros and cons of the public schools in the B/CS area, and then the alternatives (charter and private).

I think the biggest concern of the homeschooling route (other than the fear of screwing up our child), is the potential of her to miss out on opportunities she would have in a school setting (socializing, classmates, prom, school sporting events, etc). It sounds like those that have go done the homeschooling path before have helped create alternatives to address some of those items.

Just a few thoughts:

1. I think there's a lot of confirmation bias on this thread.

2. Adults (particularly parents) don't know if a kid is weird or not. Their peers know. Also, having weird kids isn't necessarily a bad thing.

3. Having kids more comfortable with adults isn't necessarily a good thing. (I'm not a fan of kids who think they are mini-adults, want to call me by my first name, and so on.)

4. There definitely can be gaps in education in homeschooling. (One of my homeschooled students wrote a paper about this for my class at a local college.)

5. Homeschooled kids eventually enter the real world. (Per a previous post, one of my few "nonbinary" students was homeschooled. They were a great student, but I don't think a tatted, nonbinary adult was what their parents were expecting.)

6. Public schools definitely are not geared to giving kids individualized instruction. Schools recognize the need for that, but current pedagogy trends work against that.

7. There are many good reasons to homeschool, but I'm not sure athletics is one of them. Most parents would be better served putting the money spent on athletics into a college savings/investment account.

BBRex said:

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Just a few thoughts:

1. I think there's a lot of confirmation bias on this thread.

2. Adults (particularly parents) don't know if a kid is weird or not. Their peers know. Also, having weird kids isn't necessarily a bad thing.

3. Having kids more comfortable with adults isn't necessarily a good thing. (I'm not a fan of kids who think they are mini-adults, want to call me by my first name, and so on.)

4. There definitely can be gaps in education in homeschooling. (One of my homeschooled students wrote a paper about this for my class.)

5. Homeschooled kids eventually enter the real world. (Per a previous post, one of my few "nonbinary" students was homeschooled. They were a great students, but I don't think a tatted, nonbinary adult was what their parents were expecting. Great student, though.)

6. Public schools definitely are not geared to giving kids individualized instruction. Schools recognize the need for that, but current pedagogy trends work against that.

7. There are many good reasons to homeschool, but I'm not sure athletics is one of them. Most parents would be better served putting the money spent on athletics into a college savings/investment account.

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This. Those kids are the most annoying. We have a kid in our neighborhood, her parents are our friends, she is mu daughter's age and friend too. Right from when she was 8, she'd talk to the adults like she was one of them. She was respectful and did not call me by my first name but she'd ask me "how was work going?". This, from an 8 year old kid who had no idea what "work" was. At first, it felt amazing, since my daughter was no where near that, but later it got annoying too.

Classical conversations is a great choice for families that dont want the pure homeschooling model.

So is classical education schools. Concept; 2 or 3 days a week the child goes to school and is taught key concepts and gets socialization with others. Then gets the homework for the rest of the week. Then the days at home are spent working on assignments with the flexibility to do sports and other interesting things as time permits. Different classical schools will have different emphasis...some quite difficult. All better than public schools.

Hey man, you do you. I think your situation is different as are many home schooled scenarios.

I'm also not against it but there's no way in hell we'll be going that route for many reasons. I come from a family of public educators (as in schools named after them) and still have family that have devoted their lives to it as a public service.

Now, before everyone gets into the libertarian "gubmint employee daycare worker" mentality, I'll just leave it at that.

I went to public school and also went to a public university. I am still of the mindset that regardless of what education is offered, the effort from the parent is paramount and number one indicator of the success of the student.

Does that mean to home school and control that effort, end to end? University model and few days a week? Private school? Charter?

All are options but the mindset, discipline and investment (time or finances, or both) from the parents are what's key.

Discipleship, discipline, direction.

Sounds like you're doing them all and I commend you.

No complaints with comment, just adding in regards to our specific situation, my mom taught at a public school, as do two of my siblings (and one brother-in-law). While I have spoke to them for their opinion on potentially doing homeschooling, their choice of profession has zero impact on our decision.

Very interesting discussion and appreciate all the insight here. My daughter is beginning this journey with her 5 year old. They live in FW and public schools aren't an option.

MasonB said:

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I'm a stay at home dad. Circumstances and timing made it an option for us to make that decision so that I could care for our autistic son.

We've had to make sacrifices as a family and me personally.

I encounter comments and judgements like yours all the time. "Must be nice to fish all day" and "That kid isn't doing real schoolwork" and "He is wasting his kids life".

The people making these comments don't see the curriculum work he does 6 days a week, including the summer. They don't see the science presentations he does on fish habitats. They don't see the volunteer work he does to bring a fishing event to the children's hospital. They don't see the research he does before and after our 30 plus field trips a year. They don't see that he has literally been to over 1,000 speech and occupational therapy. They don't see the history projects and geography projects he works on at home just for fun. They don't see a lot more than that.

Yet they feel entitled to weigh in - why exactly?

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And they don't see the brilliance in using making different cookie recipes to teach fractions.

Math is learned and dessert is made
Win/Win here

I think kids of educated and reasonably intelligent and conscientious parents do their kids good by home schooling or by splitting home school with a part time private school, which is what I think my youngest brother and sister in law do with their kids. They get do home school and church based school also, and do sports and hobbies. They are very well educated and well rounded.

Stonegateag85 said:

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If your kid isn't elite or trending towards elite, time to drop the charade of needing to do a hobby 4 hours a day.

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I know a lot of select baseball losers that put countless hours and dollars into that only for their idiot son to just get a JUCO "scholarship".

Only one thing needs to be said, the government wants your kids to go to public schools. Obviously, that can't the best thing for them. I will hang up now.

flashplayer said:

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schwabbin said:

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Home schooling sounds very isolating to me. I enjoyed public school as a kid and you meet people from all walks of life.

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Guarantee you my homeschool kids met more people in public than you ever did at public schools. And they get mature adult interaction, not the genpop prison population of public schools.

Edit to say I have taught in public schools very recently so I have perspective on both sides.

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Bingo.

This is why it's funny to me to read posts about people being irritated with children talking to them as adults. Like above, an 8 year old asking how work was. That's quite significant.

This is actually a good example. Many homeschool kids do this because this is the environment they are in. We homeschool our kids as well, and as long as they are respectful, I have no issue with this. Homeschool kids are generally more socially advanced than their public school counterparts because they interact with not only children, but also adults far more frequently. My kids help with our businesses, they interact with adults in other businesses, they are part of 4H councils, Ag ambassadors, etc. They deal with more adults than they do children. They are more socially adept as 14-15 year olds than many 40 year old adults I know. It's just part of how homeschooling works for kids. It is off-putting if you aren't aware or ready for it because we are used to treating kids as less capable.

agsalaska said:

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NoahAg said:

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agsalaska said:

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Quote:

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ALL of that to say...
whoever said family support/health is the most important factor is correct. If home life is crap it doesn't matter which route kids take

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This I completely disagree with. If home life is crap they are FAR better off in school. Not even close.

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Fair enough. Some homes are so bad that a full time gov't babysitter is a better alternative than at home in an abusive situation.

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Have you spent any time in a public school recently? Personally. First hand experience.

Public schools are far short of perfect but they give kids from all kinds of backgrounds amazing opportunities. Calling them government babysitters is ignorant. Outside of some inner city issues, most, the vast majority, of kids do just fine in public high schools. For most kids from tough households school gives them all kinds of chances to be successful, from football to band to ffa to robotics.

Yes they need reform.

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How recent do you want? I was a substitute teacher for about 2 months 6 1/2 years ago in the Albuquerque and Rio Ranch public schools. It was only for one to a few days at a time. 1st grade, 5th grade, 10th and 12th I think. Utter chaos in the elementary grades and while the high schoolers did their 'work' tried to share it surreptitiously via cell phones. ANd these weren't even in the south valley or international district.

It's amazing that kids even learn, and SO MUCH TIME IS WASTED! dealing with kids that you can't discipline. 20-25% of the kids take up and waste the remaining ~80% of the time for the other students.

So yes I do know and you are wrong.

Finally I have not yet seen any mention of HSLDA https://hslda.org/ . It's a must for anyone homeschooling.
There are also studies https://www.nheri.org/research-facts-on-homeschooling/.

It's also quite ironic that the politics board which tends to be such strong adherents of limited government has some so strongly advocating for the government to teach and raise kids, theirs or others.

My adult kids did both public school and homeschooling and hated the cliques, overemphasis on sports, bullying and general chaos they experienced. If you want to 'starve the beast', pull your kids out of PS's and deny them that funding which is based upon student count.

And run for school board! I did 25 or so years, and lost. SO spent my time mwith my kids. AT the very least attend school board meetings and hold the board members accountable.

Teslag said:

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And I'm saying some of those negatives are actually positives

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And I [ and others] are saying you are wrong. I have given examples, which are not anecdotes, but first hand data points.

insulator_king said:

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Teslag said:

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And I'm saying some of those negatives are actually positives

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And I [ and others] are saying you are wrong I have given examples, when are not anecdotes, but first hand data points.

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And as I said before I think a lot of them were/are pretty weird and awkward and don't realize it. There's something to be said for having a lot of diverse experiences, even negatives ones. And some memories and experiences doing things a parent doesn't approve of is good. Like getting drunk at parties and pounding vag in high school. Those years are some of the best of your life and need to be enjoyed.

infinity ag said:

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BBRex said:

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This. Those kids are the most annoying. We have a kid in our neighborhood, her parents are our friends, she is mu daughter's age and friend too. Right from when she was 8, she'd talk to the adults like she was one of them. She was respectful and did not call me by my first name but she'd ask me "how was work going?". This, from an 8 year old kid who had no idea what "work" was. At first, it felt amazing, since my daughter was no where near that, but later it got annoying too.

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I'm not clear, is this child homeschooled, or is her manner just annoying because she is a child?

My kids certainly knew what work was from a young age. They collected up the firewood I cut, hauled it in a wagon to the back porch and [neatly] stacked it in the wood bin. More real life that PS does not hardly teach.

We also attended the annual homeschool convention in ABQ, and homeschooled students were runners assisting the setup and were invariably polite, respectful and well mannered.

Go here to search for homeschooling groups.
https://my.hslda.org/groups/s/

I'm sure there are multiple HS conventions with workshops that can help you, as well as home school graduations that provide the thrill of finishing one step in your child.s life.

Well, I can say that those activities you enjoyed were exactly what I didn't [and still don't] have any interest in at all, and didn't want my kids to experience either.

You're open about the lifestyle you enjoyed, and I'm saying my desired lifestyle was and is 180 degrees out of that. So we strongly disagree on how useful and helpful those experiences are.

insulator_king said:

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agsalaska said:

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NoahAg said:

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agsalaska said:

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Quote:

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ALL of that to say...
whoever said family support/health is the most important factor is correct. If home life is crap it doesn't matter which route kids take

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This I completely disagree with. If home life is crap they are FAR better off in school. Not even close.

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Fair enough. Some homes are so bad that a full time gov't babysitter is a better alternative than at home in an abusive situation.

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Have you spent any time in a public school recently? Personally. First hand experience.

Public schools are far short of perfect but they give kids from all kinds of backgrounds amazing opportunities. Calling them government babysitters is ignorant. Outside of some inner city issues, most, the vast majority, of kids do just fine in public high schools. For most kids from tough households school gives them all kinds of chances to be successful, from football to band to ffa to robotics.

Yes they need reform.

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How recent do you want? I was a substitute teacher for about 2 months 6 1/2 years ago in the Albuquerque and Rio Ranch public schools. It was only for one to a few days at a time. 1st grade, 5th grade, 10th and 12th I think. Utter chaos in the elementary grades and while the high schoolers did their 'work' tried to share it surreptitiously via cell phones. ANd these weren't even in the south valley or international district.

It's amazing that kids even learn, and SO MUCH TIME IS WASTED! dealing with kids that you can't discipline. 20-25% of the kids take up and waste the remaining ~80% of the time for the other students.

So yes I do know and you are wrong.

Finally I have not yet seen any mention of HSLDA https://hslda.org/ . It's a must for anyone homeschooling.
There are also studies https://www.nheri.org/research-facts-on-homeschooling/.

It's also quite ironic that the politics board which tends to be such strong adherents of limited government has some so strongly advocating for the government to teach and raise kids, theirs or others.

My adult kids did both public school and homeschooling and hated the cliques, overemphasis on sports, bullying and general chaos they experienced. If you want to 'starve the beast', pull your kids out of PS's and deny them that funding which is based upon student count.

And run for school board! I did 25 or so years, and lost. SO spent my time mwith my kids. AT the very least attend school board meetings and hold the board members accountable.

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Even back when I was in school, subs sort of caught hell. I wouldn't expect that to be the way it is in every class every day.

I'm also not seeing a bunch of people pushing public schools. There are definitely problems, the severity of which depends on where you live. But there are some genuine concerns about home schooling that aren't insurmountable, but that do make it more difficult than it might appear on face value. For some people, private schools or charter schools might be a better option, if available.

insulator_king said:

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Well, I can say that those activities you enjoyed were exactly what I didn't [and still don't] have any interest in at all, and didn't want my kids to experience either.

You're open about the lifestyle you enjoyed, and I'm saying my desired lifestyle was and is 180 degrees out of that. So we strongly disagree on how useful and helpful those experiences are.

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Then my intuition was indeed right on the money

The "good" public schools of today are a shadow of the same schools from decades ago. And those were a shadow of private schools back them.

"Our students excel at drug use and casual sex"

Your leading argument should become the motto of public schools everywhere.

sam callahan said:

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"Our students excel at drug use and casual sex"

Your leading argument should become the motto of public schools everywhere.

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Should I assume you don't find the "you should send your kids to public school, otherwise they won't know how to interact with the gays, transgender people, or future inmates" selling point compelling?

Or my favorite, "if your kid isn't exposed to gay stuff in grade school, they'll be transgender when they go to college".

Everyone thinks their kids are advanced. I don't know why you would shield your kid from the big bad world instead of teaching them to make choices like they will have to do for the rest of their lives.

Separately, once kids get to high school, there are advanced paths in schools where the teachers really are good at teaching a particular subject. How is Mom smart enough to be teaching AP biology, physics, calculus, foreign language, computer science, etc all at once? I can see it in the lower grades but not once the kids are older.

aTmAg said:

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The "good" public schools of today are a shadow of the same schools from decades ago. And those were a shadow of private schools back them.

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What are you basing this on?

insulator_king said:

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infinity ag said:

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BBRex said:

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This. Those kids are the most annoying. We have a kid in our neighborhood, her parents are our friends, she is mu daughter's age and friend too. Right from when she was 8, she'd talk to the adults like she was one of them. She was respectful and did not call me by my first name but she'd ask me "how was work going?". This, from an 8 year old kid who had no idea what "work" was. At first, it felt amazing, since my daughter was no where near that, but later it got annoying too.

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I'm not clear, is this child homeschooled, or is her manner just annoying because she is a child?

My kids certainly knew what work was from a young age. They collected up the firewood I cut, hauled it in a wagon to the back porch and [neatly] stacked it in the wood bin. More real life that PS does not hardly teach.

We also attended the annual homeschool convention in ABQ, and homeschooled students were runners assisting the setup and were invariably polite, respectful and well mannered.

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Are saying that your kids hauled wood because they were homeschooled? Can a kid that is in an actual school not help their parents around the house.

All of you homeschool parents act like any non homeschooled kids are hoodlums with no ability to be good kids that learn values from their parents.

1939 said:

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Separately, once kids get to high school, there are advanced paths in schools where the teachers really are good at teaching a particular subject. How is Mom smart enough to be teaching AP biology, physics, calculus, foreign language, computer science, etc all at once? I can see it in the lower grades but not once the kids are older.

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One, it's not always mom who is teaching. It can be an online class or co-op with a qualified teacher. Also, by HS many homeschoolers are taking some number of dual credit classes.

NoahAg said:

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1939 said:

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Separately, once kids get to high school, there are advanced paths in schools where the teachers really are good at teaching a particular subject. How is Mom smart enough to be teaching AP biology, physics, calculus, foreign language, computer science, etc all at once? I can see it in the lower grades but not once the kids are older.

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One, it's not always mom who is teaching. It can be an online class or co-op with a qualified teacher. Also, by HS many homeschoolers are taking some number of dual credit classes.

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If that's the case then what is the point? Pull your kids out of school so they can go to some online class or you have to try and find an actual teacher somewhere. Isn't that admitting that you can't provide what a public or private school can?

1939 said:

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NoahAg said:

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1939 said:

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Separately, once kids get to high school, there are advanced paths in schools where the teachers really are good at teaching a particular subject. How is Mom smart enough to be teaching AP biology, physics, calculus, foreign language, computer science, etc all at once? I can see it in the lower grades but not once the kids are older.

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One, it's not always mom who is teaching. It can be an online class or co-op with a qualified teacher. Also, by HS many homeschoolers are taking some number of dual credit classes.

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If that's the case then what is the point? Pull your kids out of school so they can go to some online class or you have to try and find an actual teacher somewhere. Isn't that admitting that you can't provide what a public or private school can?

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Imagine having a brand that's so bad, you try to bully people into buying your product. Welcome to public school.

I didn't read the entire thread, but what does the typical day look like when you homeschool? Do you have a set schedule with "classes" every hour with lessons where you teach in front of a white board? Do you ever just watch lessons on YouTube? If they are assigned to read something, do you just leave the room and have them sit there and read? I'm just genuinely curious as to the day to day details.

Is this the "I have money and didn't pull out" thread?

Seven Costanza said:

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I didn't read the entire thread, but what does the typical day look like when you homeschool? Do you have a set schedule with "classes" every hour with lessons where you teach in front of a white board? Do you ever just watch lessons on YouTube? If they are assigned to read something, do you just leave the room and have them sit there and read? I'm just genuinely curious as to the day to day details.

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You could ask 100 homeschool families this question. You'll get 100 different answers, which is part of the point.

My kids (all 5th grade and younger, 3 in school and 3 not in school) have formal classes online from about 7:30 to about 11 Monday through Thursday. The school has their own curriculum. My wife works with them for about an hour and a half to two hours after lunch in our classroom, then they go to the park, museum, hike, bike ride, roller skating. Something outside the house. I help them after work most days (typically math subjects, religion, and Latin). That can be an hour or more depending on what they need. There are times of the day for prayer and chores. Friday mornings they go to mass, and spent about half the day finishing homework and reading. They turn in work for grades. We typically don't read their assigned reading, but if we do they must have read it themselves first. In the summer, they take at least one class and then they have baking and cooking club. Every day is different, but as homeschool goes there's probably more structure than most.