Reed Shaw said:

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I can't wait for us to ally up with North Korea too! That's gonna be great! Three countries run by dictators!

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Trump is going to blame South Korea for not making peace. Taiwan is just ****ed and should just change flags now.

Did anyone not see this coming?

aggiehawg said:

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In 2022, the favorability rating among Americans was over 70% approval. Now? Barely over 40% approval.

That is an incredible loss of goodwill and political capital for any leader, much less one during a war. He might hav been a great comedian but his political instincts are crap.

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Ukraine is turning into an Eastern European version of Afghanistan. There is no fixing it and there's no "fully conquering" it.

Bea Aruthur said:

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Some of yall are clueless, UKE gave up their Nukes because they couldn't afford to keep them, and the agreement they signed was worthless, if you are mad take it up with Bubba Clinton.


My question how come no one stopped Russia when they took Crimea or Georgia simple answer Biden crime family with help from the cross dressing Zelinsky.

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Great argument for anybody else we try to make a deal with to get rid of their nukes. Sure, we will guarantee your security against attacks…until we decide we would rather not and declare the agreement to be worthless. Bet that makes Taiwan really want to stick by our side and not start making plans for a soft reunification with China.

Teslag said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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Teslag said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Teslag said:

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deddog said:

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Teslag said:

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deddog said:

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Teslag said:

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deddog said:

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newbie11 said:

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If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

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Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

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None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

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My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

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If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

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Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

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I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

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Then it makes little sense to waste our money and Ukraine lives to grind them down. The threat is China, not Russia. Always has been.

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This is a fair take as well. I think people can easily make arguments like this without justifying Russia's actions and castigating Zelenskyy for simply resisting an invasion.

Agree?

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Try selling us on the Ukrainian people rather than Zelensky. Nearly every politician is an unethical narcissistic - so you'll never win folks over to Zelensky. But the Ukrainian people - we can empathize with them. …although that's a more nuanced sale since the predominantly Russian eastern Ukrainians may be far less ideologically opposed to Russian control than the Kiev flavor Ukrainian.

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Also fair. But realistically anyone fighting for the Ukrainians would be in this position once it became political. The cold hard truth is that Ukraine needed foreign aid and weapons to fight off Russia. And to do that they would need to beg steal borrow and curry favor with the every western power they could. Just part of the game. If I my country were being invaded I'd want my leader to do the same and not a single ounce of me would want to surrender any of my countrymen for a quick deal. I'd literally rather ****ing die.

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I don't begrudge folks playing the hand they're dealt. But nothing in our hand necessitates fealty to Zelensky.

Zelensky is doing what he's supposed to in exploiting us (or anyone else he can grift off of) as the leader of his government's benefit.

But as Americans we should be asking:
How much do we care about Zelensky
How much do we care about Zelensky's government
How much do we care about Ukraine
How much do we care about Ukraine's borders
How much do we care about Ukrainians
How do we influence improved lives for those we care about
How much are we willing to invest toward that goal

To date The Blob has not had this conversation because their goal has nothing to do with Ukraine and everything to do with degradation of Russia using Ukrainians as a sponge of opportunity.

Martin Cash said:

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Hullabaloonatic said:

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I don't understand why you're celebrating the downfall of an ally. Truly baffling times we're in where Republicans cheer for Russia.

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Before Russia invaded, the left was telling us that Zelensky was the fascist leader of neo Nazis.

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Let's say that was true. We should give Ukraine over to Russia?

Oh no someone thought something wrong so I'm going to also choose poorly. The hell argument is this?

45-70Ag said:

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🚨BREAKING: Zelenskyy just said "He no longer feels supported by the US."

— Derrick Evans (@DerrickEvans4WV) February 18, 2025

If he truly wants the Ukrainian government to be involved in negotiations, have an open election that's monitored and whoever wins can represent Ukraine.

This clown is mad his free ride is over with president dementia.

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Regardless of opinion on the resources provided to Ukraine there is no way they can or should be expected to go along with any 'settlement' they aren't fully a part of.

The only legit end to the war would be all Russian troops out of Ukraine's borders with the possible exception of Crimea along with Russian paying whatever billions are needed to pay for rebuilding what they've destroyed along with repaying us for the resources we delivered to help fight off the Russians.

Is that the way it could play out? Pipe dream. Russia wants control of all of Ukraine and even if they're willing to 'just' settle for the 20% they currently control they will want the settlement set up in such a way that before too long they have a puppet government in Ukraine favorable to them.

Quote:

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I guess they got bogged down by documenting all the biolabs and Nazis and stealing appliances.

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I have no idea what that's supposed to mean, but I see you had no answers about our historic alliance or mutual defense pacts with Ukraine, and no knowledge of Ukrainian history prior to the Obama admin. Didn't think so.

Gigem314 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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In 2022, the favorability rating among Americans was over 70% approval. Now? Barely over 40% approval.

That is an incredible loss of goodwill and political capital for any leader, much less one during a war. He might hav been a great comedian but his political instincts are crap.

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Ukraine is turning into an Eastern European version of Afghanistan. There is no fixing it and there's no "fully conquering" it.

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Nah. A lot to criticize about this war, but this is nothing like Afg. That was militarily permissive with an insurgent force hiding in an incurable culture. Ukraine is trench warfare between mechanized power with an emerging drone weapon threat.

Jugstore Cowboy said:

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Quote:

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I guess they got bogged down by documenting all the biolabs and Nazis and stealing appliances.

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I have no idea what that's supposed to mean, but I see you had no answers about our historic alliance or mutual defense pacts with Ukraine, and no knowledge of Ukrainian history prior to the Obama admin. Didn't think so.

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Read the post again genius.

If scrolling up is too difficult

How about a couple bullet points.

We (and Russia) gave security assurances to Ukraine for giving up their nukes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

Ukraine's president in 2014 was Yanukovych but he was overthrown for being a Russian puppet. He proved the doubters wrong by… fleeing to Russia, where he remains to this day. Sadly the vaunted Russian army was unable to take Kiev and return him to power.

I guess they got bogged down by documenting all the biolabs and Nazis and stealing appliances.

This was never about right and wrong. Wrongs happen all over the world that we don't involve ourselves in.

Ukraine was a corrupt nation, not part of NATO, and not a historical ally. No reason for the US to be involved.

If Russia took all of Ukraine quickly like they would have without our involvement - the average American would care less than the "Gulf of America" map change.

BUT our corrupt leadership at the time laundered its money there - so we committed - AND then our corrupt leadership laundered even more money in forever war.



We need to shut off the tap. We need to expose the corruption and punish those responsible.

And we need to grateful that American boys were never sent in to protect Biden's grift.

He should go back to Dancing With The Stars if he wants to be supported.

It is money well spent. Putin is bankrupting Russia to achieve his dream of restoring Imperial Russia. Their GDP is about that of Texas. Trump is right about Europe footing more of the bill to arm Ukraine. The EU has relied on the US far to long for their defense. Hopefully, this is a wake up call for them to increase their commitment.

e=mc2 said:

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revvie said:

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My question...what dirt does Putin have on Trump. He is KGB trained remember. Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave right now. We are snatching defeat from the jaws of victory over one of the charter members of the Axis of Evil.

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So, you'd rather keep the war going with how many more killed? A million? 5 million? How many deaths are you good with. Trump is good with no more deaths. Ukraine will still be Ukraine. Russia will still be Russia. Trade will open between countries.

Shame on you.

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If it spare futures American lives, I am fine with it. Russia will not stop their expansion. Whose next...Moldavia or perhaps the Baltic states. Trump just want to guarantee peace in our time.

Hullabaloonatic said:

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45-70Ag said:

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🚨BREAKING: Zelenskyy just said "He no longer feels supported by the US."

— Derrick Evans (@DerrickEvans4WV) February 18, 2025

If he truly wants the Ukrainian government to be involved in negotiations, have an open election that's monitored and whoever wins can represent Ukraine.

This clown is mad his free ride is over with president dementia.

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I don't understand why you're celebrating the downfall of an ally. Truly baffling times we're in where Republicans cheer for Russia.

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I don't understand why you consider Ukraine an ally. The corruption in Ukraine been well documented for many years.

Normally, allies create a win/win scenario for us. Ukraine is truly nothing more than a proxy that has been sucking US resources. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians dead in a war they never were going to be able to win.

This has always been the dichotomy I've never understood. If Russia is such a terrible threat to the US that we fear, why do those that have supported this war believe that us throwing a bunch of money at Ukraine could somehow result in them defeating Russia?

Reed Shaw said:

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I can't wait for us to ally up with North Korea too! That's gonna be great! Three countries run by dictators!

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Huh? You're wading in over your head.

Quote:

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If Russia took all of Ukraine quickly like they would have without our involvement - the average American would care less than the "Gulf of America" map change.

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Massive revisionist history here. We didn't really get heavily involved until the summer of 2022, well after Ukraine repelled Russia's initial invasion in the spring of 2022.

Russia just sucked at invading.

Teslag said:

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deddog said:

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newbie11 said:

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If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

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Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

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None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

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I think it is disengenuous to not recognize that Russia was concerned about Ukraine being admitted into NATO. One can be opposed to Russia and still recognize the obvious.

The only reason Russia was concerned about Ukraine in NATO is because it would make it all but impossible to make Ukraine a part of Russia.

This may just well end with a dirty bomb going off in Russia. And who'd blame them.

So, once the smoke clears, who is gonna clean up the mess?

Teslag said:

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The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

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And why is it our responsibility to defend his country?

Ukraine has been nothing but a money laundering sh*thole for our elite class.

Can you name 3 positive things Ukraine has done for us (meaning the average citizen in the U.S.) in the past 10 years?

Teslag said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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Teslag said:

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The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

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Do you want American troops/NATO in this fight. This is unwinnable for Ukraine and more people are dying because of our support

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Of course not. I want a negotiated peace along current lines and Ukraine in NATO. And if not in NATO then security presence or arms for Ukraine to stave off any future Russian aggression.

Is that so bad?

And people are only dying because Russia invaded a sovereign nation. Don't forget that.

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And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is precisely how you get the US into a kinetic war with Russia and China at the same time.

Again, look at NATO's expansion eastward over time, and tell me that Putin is unreasonable in seeing NATO as an aggressor.

Teslag said:

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The only reason Russia was concerned about Ukraine in NATO is because it would make it all but impossible to make Ukraine a part of Russia.

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Really, did Putin whisper that into your ear? Or are you making a hell of an assumption?

jrdaustin said:

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Teslag said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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Teslag said:

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The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

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Do you want American troops/NATO in this fight. This is unwinnable for Ukraine and more people are dying because of our support

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Of course not. I want a negotiated peace along current lines and Ukraine in NATO. And if not in NATO then security presence or arms for Ukraine to stave off any future Russian aggression.

Is that so bad?

And people are only dying because Russia invaded a sovereign nation. Don't forget that.

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And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is precisely how you get the US into a kinetic war with Russia and China at the same time.

Again, look at NATO's expansion eastward over time, and tell me that Putin is unreasonable in seeing NATO as an aggressor.

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Countries that have experienced Russia all clamor to join NATO. Joining a defensive pact is somehow aggressive

His comments the past few days clearly reflect his awareness that the clock is running out on him being relevant.

Both Russia and the USA require a Ukraine election to continue the peace process. He knows he will lose.

GAC06 said:

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jrdaustin said:

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Teslag said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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Teslag said:

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The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

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Do you want American troops/NATO in this fight. This is unwinnable for Ukraine and more people are dying because of our support

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Of course not. I want a negotiated peace along current lines and Ukraine in NATO. And if not in NATO then security presence or arms for Ukraine to stave off any future Russian aggression.

Is that so bad?

And people are only dying because Russia invaded a sovereign nation. Don't forget that.

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And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is precisely how you get the US into a kinetic war with Russia and China at the same time.

Again, look at NATO's expansion eastward over time, and tell me that Putin is unreasonable in seeing NATO as an aggressor.

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Countries that have experienced Russia all clamor to join NATO. Joining a defensive pact is somehow aggressive

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You and I might not think so, but to Putin - who has watched the NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization expand from the North Atlantic eastward, gobbling up former Soviet sattelites right up to the border of Russia - the westward expansion of NATO could easily be seen as an aggression.

Why is looking at NATO through Russia's eyes so hard for some people?

Russia knows that countries that join NATO are countries they can't invade. Russia invaded Ukraine because they could join NATO.

jrdaustin said:

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GAC06 said:

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jrdaustin said:

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Teslag said:

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FIDO*98* said:

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Teslag said:

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The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

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Do you want American troops/NATO in this fight. This is unwinnable for Ukraine and more people are dying because of our support

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Of course not. I want a negotiated peace along current lines and Ukraine in NATO. And if not in NATO then security presence or arms for Ukraine to stave off any future Russian aggression.

Is that so bad?

And people are only dying because Russia invaded a sovereign nation. Don't forget that.

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And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is precisely how you get the US into a kinetic war with Russia and China at the same time.

Again, look at NATO's expansion eastward over time, and tell me that Putin is unreasonable in seeing NATO as an aggressor.

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Countries that have experienced Russia all clamor to join NATO. Joining a defensive pact is somehow aggressive

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You and I might not think so, but to Putin - who has watched the NORTH ATLANTIC Treaty Organization expand from the North Atlantic eastward, gobbling up former Soviet sattelites right up to the border of Russia - the westward expansion of NATO could easily be seen as an aggression.

Why is looking at NATO through Russia's eyes so hard for some people?

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Really, it's not, but Russia has been expansionist since the time of the Tsars. Putin is just " carryin' on the family tradition" - doesn't mean I have to like it.

Aggie Apotheosis said:

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dBoy99 said:

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45-70Ag said:

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🚨BREAKING: Zelenskyy just said "He no longer feels supported by the US."

— Derrick Evans (@DerrickEvans4WV) February 18, 2025

If he truly wants the Ukrainian government to be involved in negotiations, have an open election that's monitored and whoever wins can represent Ukraine.

This clown is mad his free ride is over with president dementia.

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Can we just give Ukraine back to Russia already?

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I'm old enough to remember when conservatives hated ruthless dictators.

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I remember when conservatives hated spending hundreds of billions of dollars to make Ukrainian grittier oligarchs rich sso that congress people could keep their illegal bioweapons labs and money laundering schemes intact.