Great story.

Why were we there?

Why were we there?











That's the question, and the only question, why were we there?

Goaltending for the UN, that's why.

Fightin_Aggie said:

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Burrus86 said:

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Well, Democrats like them a good war every now and then.

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Many forget it was JFK who got us involved in Vietnam. "Advisers" were sent in before Kennedy's term but it was JFK who ramped it up to the war it became.

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Not exactly true. It was more Kennedy sent in a few thousand advisors

it was Johnson in 1964 who really began to ramp up sending the first Army regiments to South Vietnam.

LMCane said:

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Fightin_Aggie said:

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Burrus86 said:

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Well, Democrats like them a good war every now and then.

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Many forget it was JFK who got us involved in Vietnam. "Advisers" were sent in before Kennedy's term but it was JFK who ramped it up to the war it became.

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Not exactly true. It was more Kennedy sent in a few thousand advisors

it was Johnson in 1964 who really began to ramp up sending the first Army regiments to South Vietnam.

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Johnson had the same advisors JFK had. Its a myth to think JFK's plans would have been substantially different had he lived. At least, in terms of mid-60s Vietnam strategy.

Barnes thread

George Bush Sr. was the guy who first deployed our troops to Somalia. Clinton was the guy who screwed up Mogadishu and the cowardly retreat afterwards.

As a Kid I remember my dad saying the government could screw up a two car funeral. I didn't get then, but boy do I get it now !!

We were told it was a humanitarian mission. And it was...right up until it wasn't.

Quit sending you a Democrat or that stupid

It's all orchestrated about the public Masters

LMCane said:

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watching this you see even more clearly what an insane maniac Bill Clinton and his team of morons were for getting us literally involved in fighting a civil war

in one of the most backward Al Qaeda infested cesspools on the planet.

all it did was get Americans killed, wasted millions, lost us equipment.

and gave us Ilhan Omar and thousands of Hamas supporting "refugees" taking over Minneapolis.

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Shoot. Even watching the original movie, you are left with a sense of "why the hell are we here? This isn't our fight". I think they did a good job portraying that.

I met jeff struecker when I was stationed at Fort Benning when I was a young 2LT. He was a pastor at a church in Columbus. One amazing man.

Aggie Therapist said:

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LMCane said:

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watching this you see even more clearly what an insane maniac Bill Clinton and his team of morons were for getting us literally involved in fighting a civil war

in one of the most backward Al Qaeda infested cesspools on the planet.

all it did was get Americans killed, wasted millions, lost us equipment.

and gave us Ilhan Omar and thousands of Hamas supporting "refugees" taking over Minneapolis.

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Shoot. Even watching the original movie, you are left with a sense of "why the hell are we here? This isn't our fight". I think they did a good job portraying that.

I met jeff struecker when I was stationed at Fort Benning when I was a young 2LT. He was a pastor at a church in Columbus. One amazing man.

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He has spoken at our church in Houston. You are right in the little I have heard from him he seems to be an amazing man. Can't imagine what he went through in that ordeal and to come out the way he has. God has used him more than you can count because of this tragic event.

This is a brutal watch. I'm having to do it in pieces.

This.

TTUArmy said:

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We were told it was a humanitarian mission. And it was...right up until it wasn't.

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This is the answer to the question of "why were we there"

It started as a UN lead humanitarian mission, feeding starving kids due to war-created famine. And then, war lords started stealing all of the aid.

What we decided to do: put a few boots on the ground to force warlords to distribute all aid.

What should we have done? One of two things:

1) Quit sending the aid. This would be my preferred option, but reasonable people could disagree.
2) Invade Somalia with an adequate, overwhelming show of force. I don't like this approach. This is how you wind up spending $2 trillion in Afghanistan over 10 years. I disagree with this option, but reasonable people can disagree.

What you absolutely should not do is throw an underwhelming force into a war zone. That was a major ****-up. Was it the military's fault for bad execution, or the White House's fault for forcing bad military strategy? That is less clear. What is clear is that putting some men in harms way without overwhelming force has been demonstrated time and again to be stupid, costing American lives. The lesson learned here was not learned by Biden, and led to many men dying while we pulled out of Afghanistan.

ts5641 said:

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This is a brutal watch. I'm having to do it in pieces.

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It's a great watch. Better than the movie.

It is brutal.

What is clear is that we should never allow US troops to report to the UN. The vast majority of issues arose from that feckless leadership by the UN.

Also, humanitarian missions don't go as planned. If it is bad enough to deploy a young Marine with 210 rounds, what do you think he is going to do when the plan goes awry? He is launching 210 rounds to live.

You can determine for yourself what parts of American leadership keep dedicating troops to both UN and humanitarian missions. Those two missions typically have bad outcomes because the leadership is always convinced that the best possible outcome plans will work as presented.

Things go wrong and, then, you learn.

Troy91 said:

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What is clear is that we should never allow US troops to report to the UN. The vast majority of issues arose from that feckless leadership by the UN.

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Are you saying this from direct experience in Somalia?

All of the information I have seen show that the mission to kill Adid was solely a US mission.

Coordinating with UN to distribute grain seems reasonable. Coordinating with the UN to assassinate a tyrant is a terrible idea.

Can you confirm that we did the later?

I did the workup to go to Somalia but did not deploy there.

The documentary covers this in the first 5 minutes. We were on a UN peacekeeping mission. That UN peace keeping command is the one that refused to roll armored vehicles for a long time which left the Rangers stuck in the city overnight.

The only heavy support that the Rangers and Delta had were UN forces.

I remember reading this book when I was in high school. The full-color pictures of Kevin Durant captive in the middle.

The bravery of Randy Shugart and Gary Gordon is legendary.

Great book.

I haven't watched this so apologies if the doc covers this, but I remember hearing on a podcast that intel was provided prior to the insertion that a certain Mujahideen fighter did earlier training with the Somali's. He was trained by the US during the conflict with Russia to convert RPG sights to attack low level helicopters. They knew this going in and we all know what happened next.

That would be of course Osama Bin Laden.

Troy91 said:

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I did the workup to go to Somalia but did not deploy there.

The documentary covers this in the first 5 minutes. We were on a UN peacekeeping mission. That UN peace keeping command is the one that refused to roll armored vehicles for a long time which left the Rangers stuck in the city overnight.

The only heavy support that the Rangers and Delta had were UN forces.

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This was not clear in the documentary, but I might have missed it.

Thanks for your post. Primary information is always the best.

Troy91 said:

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I did the workup to go to Somalia but did not deploy there.

The documentary covers this in the first 5 minutes. We were on a UN peacekeeping mission. That UN peace keeping command is the one that refused to roll armored vehicles for a long time which left the Rangers stuck in the city overnight.

The only heavy support that the Rangers and Delta had were UN forces.

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Yep. It was a pissing contest - the UN commander was pissed that Garrison did not inform him of the raid that ultimately turned into the black hawks getting shot down fiasco. The reason why the UN was kept out of the loop is because (at least from what I was told) that they had more leaks than the Iraqi navy and magically Adid's troops would know of the raid or not be there.

They kept the armor delayed for hours before rolling out.

Quote:

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all it did was get Americans killed, wasted millions, lost us equipment.

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same ole same ole with our govt....
Rinse and repeat for the past 30+ years

TTUArmy said:

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We were told it was a humanitarian mission. And it was...right up until it wasn't.

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when you watch this documentary you see that this was NOT a humanitarian mission

it was Clinton and his idiots trying to prove they were tough

there were entire weeks of the US Army launching attack missions against Somali warlords

BEFORE Black Hawk Down

LMCane said:

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EX TEXASEX said:

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It is like you went exploring in the forest and you found a pack of feral rabid dogs. Instead of avoiding them like the plague. Genius lib elites and government officials thought it would be a fantastic idea to bring the rabid dogs home and obviously bring the rabies with them. Which turns out to be a disaster. SURPRISE, SURPRISE!!!

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It's worse than that

we weren't aimlessly exploring.

the US Army Rangers and Delta were DELIBERATELY sent to Mogadishu to go to war against General Aidid, who led one of the armies engaged in the Somali Civil War

so we are literally then killing his men, killing his leaders, killing civilians in the crossfire- all in a fundamentalist Islamic failed state where half the population is high on khat all day long

then "surprised" when they ambush our troops.

literal insanity.

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Troy91 said:

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I did the workup to go to Somalia but did not deploy there.

The documentary covers this in the first 5 minutes. We were on a UN peacekeeping mission. That UN peace keeping command is the one that refused to roll armored vehicles for a long time which left the Rangers stuck in the city overnight.

The only heavy support that the Rangers and Delta had were UN forces.

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I cancelled Netflix.

I can remember from reading the book, one of the big takeaways was Clinton admin wouldn't allow AC130's and the command in Somalia requested them.

The movie made no mention of it.

Is there mention of AC130's in this doc?

None. The documentary focuses on trigger pullers from both sides. It also throws in the civilian perspective. There is zero strategic or tactical discussion.

BadMoonRisin said:

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I remember reading this book when I was in high school. The full-color pictures of Kevin Durant captive in the middle.

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quite a plot twist

Troy91 said:

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I did the workup to go to Somalia but did not deploy there.

The documentary covers this in the first 5 minutes. We were on a UN peacekeeping mission. That UN peace keeping command is the one that refused to roll armored vehicles for a long time which left the Rangers stuck in the city overnight.

The only heavy support that the Rangers and Delta had were UN forces.

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My understanding was the Marines had been sent on a peace keeping mission to help protect the grain distribution. After they left, Aidid's guys attacked and killed some UN Paki soldiers and the Rangers/Delta were sent in to go after Aidid. But that was from reading an article back in the mid/late 90s.

Old Army Ghost said:

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BadMoonRisin said:

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I remember reading this book when I was in high school. The full-color pictures of Kevin Durant captive in the middle.

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quite a plot twist

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Mike. You got me.

gd, that would be another docuseries.