Touchscreen said:

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Rossticus said:

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So what did we get in exchange?

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I think the grand plan is that this will drive a wedge between any alliance between Russia and China. If I was a Ukranian I think I would start brushing up on my Russian language proficiency, because Ukraine is dead meat once this agreement is completed.

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Once Hussein/Biden allowed Russia into Ukraine, Ukraine was never going to get that land back.

hth

nortex97 said:

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Everything I'd have hoped for: trade, lower energy costs, and peace.

Quote:

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Sergey Lavrov's main statements:

Russia has never endangered Ukraine's energy supply system. Moscow only strikes those facilities that serve the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

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That is demonstrably false. We should not stand next to him and let him tell lies like that without challenging them. Regardless of where you stand on ending the war, Russia has committed a ton of war crimes, including attacking the power supply networks for civilians coming into and during winter. Whatever settlement is reached needs to account for those crimes and punishment for those who perpetrated them.

Touchscreen said:

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Rossticus said:

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So what did we get in exchange?

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I think the grand plan is that this will drive a wedge between any alliance between Russia and China. If I was a Ukranian I think I would start brushing up on my Russian language proficiency, because Ukraine is dead meat once this agreement is completed.

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I'm breathing a sigh of relief: at least Zelensky will personally have billions of U.S. dollars to buy all the meat (and anything else) he wants.

Something like 60 percent of their generating capacity has been impacted, but if Russia wanted to wipe out their electric grid that would have been easily accomplished. Electric grids are not particularly difficult to functionally wipe out with cruise missiles etc.

The Russians (and Ukrainians) always talk in hyperbole, it is what it is.

Following yesterday’s Summit between U.S. and Russian Officials in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia; Secretary of State Marco Rubio, alongside National Security Advisor Mike Waltz and Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, cites “the incredible opportunity to partner with the Russians geopolitically,… pic.twitter.com/jieJ0mSdLK

— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) February 18, 2025

What it's really been all about:

BROWN: Is it a mistake to not include Ukraine in this meeting about ending the war in Ukraine?

BURCHETT: No, ma'am. The last 3.5 years, no one has attempted to negotiate with Russia. All they're done is open up the American taxpayers to $200b+ of investment and I think the gravy… pic.twitter.com/o1rEVVzMqR

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) February 18, 2025

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Once Hussein/Biden allowed Russia into Ukraine, Ukraine was never going to get that land back.

hth

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That was obvious. If you are Ukraine though, it's going to get much worse. Once Putin has a chance to retool his military some and Ukraine has been suitably isolated, the Russians will be back to bite off another chunk or two of Ukraine, if not the whole thing.

nortex97 said:

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LOLOL. Europe in a nutshell.

Since the weekend, he was in Germany, Poland, UAE,... Now he's in Turkey and supposedly he's cancelled his planned visit to Saudi Arabia.

I don't think I've ever seen a nation at war with a President or Prime Minister simultaneously on the road as much as Volodymyr Zelenskyy. https://t.co/SwXG6r6qbk

— TheLastRefuge (@TheLastRefuge2) February 18, 2025

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I wonder if he stopped off in Switzerland for some skiing, I hear his family makes sure to get in plenty of time doing that. You know like any leader at war you need to get some slope time in.

nortex97 said:

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Everything I'd have hoped for: trade, lower energy costs, and peace.

Quote:

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Sergey Lavrov's main statements:

We agreed that a process for Ukrainian regulation will be formed in the near future, the US will announce who will represent Washington, as soon as we know who it will be, we will immediately designate our participant in the process.

We did not just listen, we heard each other.

US Secretary of State Rubio emphasized the need for Russia and the US to be guided by national interests, Moscow agrees with this.

Russia and the US agreed that everything should be done to combine efforts in geopolitical spheres and economic affairs.

There is reason to believe that the American side has begun to better listen to Russia's position.

Consultations between Russia and the US on Ukraine will be regular after both sides appoint negotiating teams.

Lavrov said that he had not seen reports that Russia and the US allegedly agreed on a three-stage plan for settling Ukraine during the negotiations.

The appearance of troops from the same NATO countries, but under a foreign flag, the flag of the European Union or the national flag, is unacceptable.

Russia and the United States agreed that it is necessary to remove obstacles to mutually beneficial economic cooperation.

The United States proposed introducing a moratorium on attacks on energy facilities in the Russian Federation and Ukraine. Thus, the attack by Ukrainian drones on an oil pumping station in the Krasnodar Territory is, in fact, an attack on the energy infrastructure of Kazakhstan. Russia has never endangered Ukraine's energy supply system. Moscow only strikes those facilities that serve the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

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But the appearance of troops from North Korea are acceptable? Ukraine is about to get screwed in these negotiations.

rgag12 said:

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So in that model, the Russians would want control over eastern and Central Europe while America controls the western hemisphere, and China controls Asia?

That's going to be a tough pill to swallow for a country that's dominated the world for 40-50 years. Economically I'm not sure the American people are ready for the consequences

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Russia doesn't remotely have the capability of expanding even to the point of having the old Soviet Union back much less the Warsaw Pact or beyond. They don't have the men, resources, or capability even if we let them. The hard stop for them is Poland which would kick their ass even standing alone. I could maybe see a problem with the Baltics, especially Lithuania because of that weird sliver of land connecting to Kaliningrad which is a very strategically important port for Russia. It was so dumb to allow the Baltics into NATO, they should have remained Neutral. This isn't the old Soviet Union though, this is Russia trying to create a defensive buffer for what is an impossible to defend border that stretches for thousands of miles and touches so many different countries.

China is a very different story though. China is a problem and much more dangerous. If it came to push and shove it is absolutely in the US's interest to make concessions in Eastern Europe to keep Russia away from China and even to make them into a quasi ally. We will never be close friends with Russia but there is no reason for us to be enemies, we have quite a bit in common with them culturally in a post Communist Russia.

Remember that Putin wants to be Peter the Great not Stalin. Unfortunately most Americans don't understand Russia or their history. Russia will always require a strongman to lead it because of the geography and Democracy as we know it won't work there. That said we want the Orthodox/European focused leaders in charge of Russia. It is incredibly dangerous for them to be getting closely allied with China and Iran, we need to do all we can to drive a wedge there. China and Iran are not countries we can trust or align with unless they change their leadership entirely and who knows when that will happen or if it will.

Oh, and Ukraine is the most corrupt and conquered country in Europe and likely always will be. We have almost no interests whatsoever there so getting involved is just lunacy. At best it is making a deal with Saddam against the Ayatollah.

North Korean troops were an irrelevant blip on the radar, as with the whole "Kursk front." The only reason NoKo matters to anyone at all is the threat of shelling Seoul and their nuclear weapons (which are wholly/categorically disregarded in this conflict). And, of course, the Norks wouldn't have any nukes but for precious Jimmy Carter, fwiw.

More importantly, the EU can't afford to 'fill the gap' left by USAID in their politics of censorship.

Good, let EU try funding that mess of $40 billion. I doubt much of it will get funded as they have plenty of budget issues and trying to ramp up defense spending. Plus, it won't give the US politicians on the NGO boards any cover of being US Govt. funded. They will be exposed as…

— Free To Speak (@FreeToSpeak71) February 18, 2025

aggie93 said:

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nortex97 said:

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LOLOL. Europe in a nutshell.

Since the weekend, he was in Germany, Poland, UAE,... Now he's in Turkey and supposedly he's cancelled his planned visit to Saudi Arabia.

I don't think I've ever seen a nation at war with a President or Prime Minister simultaneously on the road as much as Volodymyr Zelenskyy. https://t.co/SwXG6r6qbk

— TheLastRefuge (@TheLastRefuge2) February 18, 2025

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I wonder if he stopped off in Switzerland for some skiing, I hear his family makes sure to get in plenty of time doing that. You know like any leader at war you need to get some slope time in.

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He ain't just on the slopes.

He's visiting the U.S.-supplied billions in his Swiss Bank accounts.

Touchscreen said:

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Rossticus said:

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So what did we get in exchange?

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I think the grand plan is that this will drive a wedge between any alliance between Russia and China. If I was a Ukranian I think I would start brushing up on my Russian language proficiency, because Ukraine is dead meat once this agreement is completed.

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Maybe this one will mean more than the security agreement we gave Ukraine to give up their nuclear arsenal.

I doubt it.

nortex97 said:

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Polish FM talking trash about how they control the Nobel Prize. That's the EU aristocracy in a nutshell, angry, powerless, just want their war to continue.

All in the family 🧵 https://t.co/Z7LwMWZY8u

— Mike Benz (@MikeBenzCyber) February 17, 2025

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That's all they've got….deny trump the Nobel prize. lol.

nortex97 said:

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North Korean troops were an irrelevant blip on the radar, as with the whole "Kursk front." The only reason NoKo matters to anyone at all is the threat of shelling Seoul and their nuclear weapons (which are wholly/categorically disregarded in this conflict). And, of course, the Norks wouldn't have any nukes but for precious Jimmy Carter, fwiw.

More importantly, the EU can't afford to 'fill the gap' left by USAID in their politics of censorship.

Good, let EU try funding that mess of $40 billion. I doubt much of it will get funded as they have plenty of budget issues and trying to ramp up defense spending. Plus, it won't give the US politicians on the NGO boards any cover of being US Govt. funded. They will be exposed as…

— Free To Speak (@FreeToSpeak71) February 18, 2025

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Hilarious…let Europe fund them. Those ngos hate America and actively spent money in conflict to our interests. They belong in Europe.

AgLA06 said:

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Touchscreen said:

---

Rossticus said:

---

So what did we get in exchange?

---

I think the grand plan is that this will drive a wedge between any alliance between Russia and China. If I was a Ukranian I think I would start brushing up on my Russian language proficiency, because Ukraine is dead meat once this agreement is completed.

---

Maybe this one will mean more than the security agreement we gave Ukraine to give up their nuclear arsenal.

I doubt it.

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I expect that Russia will honor this one just like they did that one. All you need to do is look at what his glowing red line is…he doesn't want Ukraine in any defensive alliance because he plans to take the rest as soon as he rebuilds his Army.

txags92 said:

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AgLA06 said:

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Touchscreen said:

---

Rossticus said:

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So what did we get in exchange?

---

I think the grand plan is that this will drive a wedge between any alliance between Russia and China. If I was a Ukranian I think I would start brushing up on my Russian language proficiency, because Ukraine is dead meat once this agreement is completed.

---

Maybe this one will mean more than the security agreement we gave Ukraine to give up their nuclear arsenal.

I doubt it.

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I expect that Russia will honor this one just like they did that one. All you need to do is look at what his glowing red line is…he doesn't want Ukraine in any defensive alliance because he plans to take the rest as soon as he rebuilds his Army.

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Honestly the US insistence that NATO members serve as peacekeepers but do so under the condition that Artcle 5 cannot be invoked if that force is attacked by Russia is all you need to know vis-a-vis Russia's anticipated behavior re: a "peace" treaty with Ukraine.