Logos Stick said:

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People can screw off in the office as well as at home.

Gen Xers are taking over and they better be willing to be flexible if they want the best and brightest workers. I'm not advocating full remote but hybrid is the absolute minimum now. A day or two at home per week is reasonable.

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Full transparency on their on line work, every single second. Save your private emails for after work hours.

Remember I actually went to work six days a week, on Saturdays I didn't have to wear a suit. Didn't have a lot of fax, no emails. Had to show up and conduct business in person. Have skin in that game because you need to be good at it.

Far too many jobs these days do not require any personal skills, nor much skill at all.

The people most likely in my office wanting to work from home are over 40. The young kids fresh out of college are in every day because it is their social circle

Saxsoon said:

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The people most likely in my office wanting to work from home are over 40. The young kids fresh out of college are in every day because it is their social circle

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Then they should be fired. They are not needed.

Worst position to ever take, is that you are not replaceable. NO ONE is irreplaceable.

Figure that out first.

aggiehawg said:

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Saxsoon said:

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The people most likely in my office wanting to work from home are over 40. The young kids fresh out of college are in every day because it is their social circle

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Then they should be fired. They are not needed.

Worst position to ever take, is that you are not replaceable. NO ONE is irreplaceable.

Figure that out first.

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I have a lot I can say about these folks. As a newish leader in the org but still under 40, I am shocked at how incompetent some of these people are. I am new to the field/company and I have folks who have been there for a decade asking me for help on processes

Saxsoon said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Saxsoon said:

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The people most likely in my office wanting to work from home are over 40. The young kids fresh out of college are in every day because it is their social circle

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Then they should be fired. They are not needed.

Worst position to ever take, is that you are not replaceable. NO ONE is irreplaceable.

Figure that out first.

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I have a lot I can say about these folks. As a newish leader in the org but still under 40, I am shocked at how incompetent some of these people are. I am new to the field/company and I have folks who have been there for a decade asking me for help on processes

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Edit - never mind I reread

No

aggiehawg said:

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Logos Stick said:

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People can screw off in the office as well as at home.

Gen Xers are taking over and they better be willing to be flexible if they want the best and brightest workers. I'm not advocating full remote but hybrid is the absolute minimum now. A day or two at home per week is reasonable.

---

Full transparency on their on line work, every single second. Save your private emails for after work hours.

Remember I actually went to work six days a week, on Saturdays I didn't have to wear a suit. Didn't have a lot of fax, no emails. Had to show up and conduct business in person. Have skin in that game because you need to be good at it.

Far too many jobs these days do not require any personal skills, nor much skill at all.

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As a lawyer everything's billable hours. Doesn't matter where from and you can't hide from it.

Quote:

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As a lawyer everything's billable hours. Doesn't matter where from and you can't hide from it.

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But back in my day. had to be in the office to bill.

JPM's stock price has more than tripled from its COVID low and they have posted record results nearly every quarter since then. Some of that was in a fully remote environment. All of it was in a hybrid environment. I'm sure there are folks that abuse WFH but to act like it's been a disaster for the bank seems untrue…

Hungry said:

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JPM's stock price has more than tripled from its COVID low and they have posted record results nearly every quarter since then. Some of that was in a fully remote environment. All of it was in a hybrid environment. I'm sure there are folks that abuse WFH but to act like it's been a disaster for the bank seems untrue…

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LOL. You think that is relevant? Stock price because he kept running the company well, despite the pikers?

That is the problem. Lazy people. Do not want to actually work.

Dimon recommended the government seize property to more quickly tackle climate change.

I give zero ****s about his rto policy. I'd love for him get bent and **** right off this planet. Anyone with his mindset needs to immediately cease consuming oxygen and returning co2.

Logos Stick said:

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Pinochet said:

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Dan Scott said:

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WFH/remote work is so bad they say, but then corporations are laying off Americans and hiring Indians.

That makes no sense.

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Chicken/egg. All those people who insisted they were more efficient remotely than in the office forced management to make the rational choice of hiring a different remote worker for 1/10 of the cost.

There are definitely industries that have been hurt by WFH. Stuff that depended on an apprentice type model has slowly gotten worse. In-person communication skills have slipped while electronic (email/zoom/etc) has gotten better. Not sure what the answer is but I do know that he's the guy in charge there. He was specifically responding to a petition that some people signed. He has every right to tell people the business is not a ****ing democracy. You don't get to vote to overturn his decisions.

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How old are you? I've been in high tech since I graduated from a&m in the 80s. We started offshoring to reduce cost around the year 2000. WFH for American workers had nothing to do with it.

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My industry is highly regulated and didn't even try offshoring until the mid 00s. It started as just a limited data entry role because we recognized that younger staff learned by doing and fixing the problems they created. The industry has gotten more and more flexible over time (with more flexibility as you moved up), and everyone was fine with the idea that you could never push all the entry level client work to even be done remotely in the US, let alone India or Argentina, because clients want to see you and new staff need the chance to do the easy stuff. They also move up to more and more of a selling role over time, which the Indians don't do. During covid, the push to be fully remote and all the "I'm just as efficient" stuff was accepted. Once all those staff were remote, there was no need to pay someone a Manhattan salary when a St Louis one would be just as good. The offshoring also ramped up. We even stopped separately stating US vs India/South America staff and just listed them all together.

At the beginning, the offshore work was **** compared to onshore work, but NYC stopped being able to say their people were better than Houston or Kansas City. Offshore work isn't as good but it's much closer to good now. I still think the bigger problem is that the 3-5 year people haven't had near the learning opportunities or ability to observe how more experienced folks solve clients' problems at this point in their careers because of WFH, but I also have an office that we've had to expand because we ran out of space with too many people wanting to be in the office. No mandates needed.

And just to be completely clear, I'm not a believer in mandating people be in the office. One of the reasons I got into this industry was the flexibility. I think it can also be true that in my industry, there is big value in being in the office more in the early part of your career. And the CEO can make whatever decision he wants; he shouldn't care that some low level staff started a petition to change a CEO decision.

aggiehawg said:

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Logos Stick said:

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People can screw off in the office as well as at home.

Gen Xers are taking over and they better be willing to be flexible if they want the best and brightest workers. I'm not advocating full remote but hybrid is the absolute minimum now. A day or two at home per week is reasonable.

---

Full transparency on their on line work, every single second. Save your private emails for after work hours.

Remember I actually went to work six days a week, on Saturdays I didn't have to wear a suit. Didn't have a lot of fax, no emails. Had to show up and conduct business in person. Have skin in that game because you need to be good at it.

Far too many jobs these days do not require any personal skills, nor much skill at all.

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And 10X more inefficient back in the day. I can complete in 20 minutes what it takes someone 60+ 8 hours to do.

It is a different world. Steve Jobs was right when he called computers a bicycle for the mind. If you want to walk and wear a suit, have at it. But you'll be miles behind.

Again, being with people in person has value. No denying that. But acknowledge that a single competent person on Zoom can do more than an office full of people in the 1980s.

aggiehawg said:

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BenFiasco14 said:

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The bash WFH thread is becoming as common as the civil war and bash teachers threads. And always plays out almost exact same.

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Because WFH does not work for many industries.

Dimon was looking at his employee's online activities while they supposedly were working for his company.

They were goofing off and not working.

Why is that such a problem for you?

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Whether employees are working from home or the office, in a huge, matrixed, complex organization like JPM the approach should be the same: set expectations and then if they consistently fall short on quality or quantity/expected outcome, can them.

The idea that in-office guarantees focus is inaccurate. Once you have just a little experience, your boss absolutely will not be looking over your shoulder and ensuring you're on task all the time. So if you want to screw around in office, that's easy (well, at least for a little while until it shows up in production, same as with remote work).

I am pretty conservative, but when Management offshores work, and then claims how great that is, and that it works (and it does) but then tells the locals to get their ass in the office to take advantage of the synergies of being co-located you know they are full of *****


Management hates the lack of control, and hate the empty RE even more.

Yes colocation is very beneficial, but we live in a world of multinationals where operational work, initiatives and op models have people from across the world working on the same value streams everyday.

I could respect someone at least saying - we hate the lack of control and the empty RE, unless there are cost reasons to not be colocated, get your ass in here. You may know they are maniacal control freaks that cant figure out that they lower costs by getting rid of unused RE, but at least they admitted it. Instead they lie, and expect their "team" to buy it.

Smh.


The US is so full of snowflakes - they are either lying, buying it or afraid to push back.

I had the fortune to work for Don Ganter at the Chicken. It was his rules because he owned the joint. If you didn't like it, you could leave and he would hire another college kid. As I got older I learned to appreciate his lesson for respecting the owner of a company that hired you. Don, as mean as he seemed, cared for the Ave college kid…..as long as they worked hard for him.

The CEO of our company hates WFH until ski season hits and he's at his vacation home 2 out of every 3 weeks.

There are some jobs that can easily be done remotely. Other jobs cannot be. When I was at a large corporation productivity soared because middle management quit wasting half of every day with meaningless meetings and people could actually focus on their work. Sure, some people abused it, so the company laid those people off, Then as the weeks passed they realized some of those roles were more critical than they thought and they had to either rehire or find new people, but for more money than they previously paid.

And as for Jamie Dimon, JPMorgans mortgage service is absolutely terrible and after hours is pretty much non-existent. So put the damn remote workers on after hours duty as a compromise, please.

BoydCrowder13 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Logos Stick said:

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People can screw off in the office as well as at home.

Gen Xers are taking over and they better be willing to be flexible if they want the best and brightest workers. I'm not advocating full remote but hybrid is the absolute minimum now. A day or two at home per week is reasonable.

---

Full transparency on their on line work, every single second. Save your private emails for after work hours.

Remember I actually went to work six days a week, on Saturdays I didn't have to wear a suit. Didn't have a lot of fax, no emails. Had to show up and conduct business in person. Have skin in that game because you need to be good at it.

Far too many jobs these days do not require any personal skills, nor much skill at all.

---

And 10X more inefficient back in the day. I can complete in 20 minutes what it takes someone 60+ 8 hours to do.

It is a different world. Steve Jobs was right when he called computers a bicycle for the mind. If you want to walk and wear a suit, have at it. But you'll be miles behind.

Again, being with people in person has value. No denying that. But acknowledge that a single competent person on Zoom can do more than an office full of people in the 1980s.

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A couple years ago I had some data digitized from an old project that was pulled off the shelf from the 1980's. It took a day or two for an analyst to digitize everything, then about 4 hours for me to recreate the project digitally. I found an AFE in the folder where the company was billing its partner over 3,000 man hours for the project.

And let's not pretend that office/work culture in the 80's was 100% business 12 hours a day, six days a week. I've been told of all kinds of shenanigans that went down back then during office hours by the old-timers. Stuff that would get you fired on the spot nowadays.

The times, they change in some ways, yet are so similar in many ways.

FCBlitz said:

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I had the fortune to work for Don Ganter at the Chicken. It was his rules because he owned the joint. If you didn't like it, you could leave and he would hire another college kid. As I got older I learned to appreciate his lesson for respecting the owner of a company that hired you. Don, as mean as he seemed, cared for the Ave college kid…..as long as they worked hard for him.

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This. The WFH passionate debate cracks me up. It's very simple. We outlawed indentured servitude a long time ago. If you don't like who you work for and their rules, go find a job that suits you or start your own business where you are the boss.

Remote work is run rampant with people who use the mouse mover to make it look like they're working.

His frustration with remote work is from dishonest employees abusing a system that promotes that type of behavior.

One of my son's friends has his MHA from A&M and in 3+ years has been to the office once and that was to receive a TB shot.

He's never met a coworker in person.

He's not learning interpersonal skills. I don't see how he could advance in that scenario.

Kids aren't learning how to interact professionally.

Gilligan said:

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One of my son's friends has his MHA from A&M and in 3+ years has been to the office once and that was to receive a TB shot.

He's never met a coworker in person.

He's not learning interpersonal skills. I don't see how he could advance in that scenario.

Kids aren't learning how to interact professionally.

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But don't you understand? Your son's friend is 1000% more efficient than those old boomers in the office! And the world is all digital these days! Personal interaction is overrated!

We've taken a slothful generation and given them the gift of WFH. There was no other outcome than wailing and gnashing of teeth to get the sloths back into the office.

FL_Ag1998 said:

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Gilligan said:

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One of my son's friends has his MHA from A&M and in 3+ years has been to the office once and that was to receive a TB shot.

He's never met a coworker in person.

He's not learning interpersonal skills. I don't see how he could advance in that scenario.

Kids aren't learning how to interact professionally.

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But don't you understand? Your son's friend is 1000% more efficient than those old boomers in the office! And the world is all digital these days! Personal interaction is overrated!

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You joke but this is all mostly true

Dimon is auditioning for an opening in the Trump Whitehouse Being STRONGLY against WFH is how he is going to get on list for the next round of appointments

infinity ag said:

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Jamie Dimon is an out of touch "let them have cake" type of moron.

I don't necessarily disagree with the RTO mandate, but this clueless boomer needs to realize that work in 2025 is international. In my previous job, we were asked to work from the office, but we all came in after 1.5 hours of commute only to get on calls all day with people in different parts of the US and the world. I never even talked to anyone in the office so what was the point of coming in? Everyone is on calls and shouting over each other. Meeting rooms were scarce as well.

I think he is on his way out anyway so he doesn't care. He's managed the company well for 20 years but he is now losing it. Does he think people can't waste time in the office? Dumbo.

Boomers like him who are stuck in the 70s need to be put to pasture.

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I disagree wholeheartedly. We experience the same at our org with the entitled next generation that has "loose" work ethics and expectations.

Keller6Ag91 said:

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infinity ag said:

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Jamie Dimon is an out of touch "let them have cake" type of moron.

I don't necessarily disagree with the RTO mandate, but this clueless boomer needs to realize that work in 2025 is international. In my previous job, we were asked to work from the office, but we all came in after 1.5 hours of commute only to get on calls all day with people in different parts of the US and the world. I never even talked to anyone in the office so what was the point of coming in? Everyone is on calls and shouting over each other. Meeting rooms were scarce as well.

I think he is on his way out anyway so he doesn't care. He's managed the company well for 20 years but he is now losing it. Does he think people can't waste time in the office? Dumbo.

Boomers like him who are stuck in the 70s need to be put to pasture.

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I disagree wholeheartedly. We experience the same at our org with the entitled next generation that has "loose" work ethics and expectations.

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It also creates laziness and dishonesty. There should be no expectation to work from home unless you start your own company. The amount of federal workers who abused the system of remote work is unreal and there's no way it doesn't happen in the private sector.

45-70Ag said:

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Keller6Ag91 said:

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I disagree wholeheartedly. We experience the same at our org with the entitled next generation that has "loose" work ethics and expectations.

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It also creates laziness and dishonesty. There should be no expectation to work from home unless you start your own company. The amount of federal workers who abused the system of remote work is unreal and there's no way it doesn't happen in the private sector.

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I was in DC recently for business right after the USAID story broke, and our consultant told us that abuse by federal workers was off the charts. One department had a requirement that employees had to be in the office once a month, so employees would come in on the last day of one month and the first of the next back-to-back, and then go back home for almost two months straight. Outrageous when you realize we're forking over hard-earned tax dollars to these leeches.

Of course federal abuse doesn't necessarily have anything to do with JP Morgan or other private companies, but it unfortunately reinforces a narrative that isn't helpful when employees are trying to retain some type of a hybrid working arrangement.

I currently work in a role that's in the office Mon-Thu and remote on Friday. Actually works quite well because everybody's in the office at the same time, and you can get people together to get stuff done, and when you're working remotely it's no big deal because everybody else is remote also. It's a day of video calls instead of in-person meetings. I remember some of the bigger hassles came when everyone was on a different schedule. You could only get half the group together in person and then try to connect the other half remotely. There were always two or three who were "unavailable" or having "connection issues" that just made it untenable.

jaime diamond is a thief. his company is constantly caught with it hand in the cookie jar in precious metal manipulation. you may agree with his work from home stance but let's not act as if this guy has any moral character. he would steal your shirt off your back if your not paying attention

I can argue both sides of this because there are all kinds of exceptions and scenarios. It totally depends on your company, industry, and/or role.

Anyone who is applying one size fits all to this from either direction either doesn't have enough life experience or has an agenda.

Someone else mentioned it but the unintended consequences of lack of human interaction are probably the biggest land mine here that we can't fully nail down.

This desperate attempt to not interact face to face with people by the younger generations is not going to help us as a society going forward.

Being in person is simply better depending on the purpose for gathering.

The bigger deal IMO is how many jobs have already been soft-automated without us knowing it? The 40 hour work week concept is 100 years old. Since then, productivity has probably went up 20x. So you have too many people that are probably working 20 hours a week. The easy answer is to fire them but at a certain point, between outsourcing and AI, we are probably reaching a point of things almost working too efficiently

Dan Scott said:

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WFH/remote work is so bad they say, but then corporations are laying off Americans and hiring Indians.

That makes no sense.

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Yep. It's all bull***** They fire Americans to hire Indians, who are remote.

I dislike work from home but every single one of you falling for this is delusional about what is going on. They are using your ability to work remotely as an excuse to hire foreigners cheaper than you. If you can do your job remotely then you can do your job from India and that's exactly what they are doing. Yes one American is worth 10 Indians but they don't care, it was never about quality of work and entirely about driving American wages down and replacing Americans.

bmks270 said:

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HoustonAg9999 said:

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Dan Scott said:

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WFH/remote work is so bad they say, but then corporations are laying off Americans and hiring Indians.

That makes no sense.

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its the old school boomers who think you are not in your seat by 5am you are not working see it all the time

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boomer executives complaining about work from home are the same ones who spent the last 3 decades replacing an office work force with an offshore one.

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They are now of course using work from home policies as an excuse to offshore more work or bring in more H1-Bs for cheap.

Gilligan said:

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One of my son's friends has his MHA from A&M and in 3+ years has been to the office once and that was to receive a TB shot.

He's never met a coworker in person.

He's not learning interpersonal skills. I don't see how he could advance in that scenario.

Kids aren't learning how to interact professionally.

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He won't, he's a number on a sheet of paper that will be replaced the instant his company can find a way to outsource his work.

Remote work that is 100% like this removes all humanity from the situation. All a company needs to do to fire someone is send an email and then cut off the check. They are remote and not a person, so why would anyone care?

It's an office space "fix the system and it will work itself out" scenario.