Inb4 learn to code

AggieDruggist89 said:

---

Slicer97 said:

---

Less IRS.

---

Who does that benefit? Tax codes aren't written by IRS. It's the congress, right?

How does less IRS benefit average middle class Americans?

---

The better question is how does more IRS benefit the average middle class Americans?

More audits of middle class Americans?

More targeting of conservatives?

More employees doing the minimal amount of work to get a paycheck?

More employees to perform activities they were not directed to by Congress?

javajaws said:

---

AggieDruggist89 said:

---

Slicer97 said:

---

Less IRS.

---

Who does that benefit? Tax codes aren't written by IRS. It's the congress, right?

How does less IRS benefit average middle class Americans?

---

---

Quote:

---

The better question is how does more IRS benefit the average middle class Americans?

---

show me where I said more IRS benefits the average middle class.

Quote:

---

More audits of middle class Americans?

---

Having been audited 3 times while being self employed, I say audit every single self employed middle class. I've seen so many deductions that are brand new F250s, horses and horse trailers for kids. Under the farm.

Quote:

---

More targeting of conservatives?

---

We will find out.

Quote:

---

More employees doing the minimal amount of work to get a paycheck?

---

Possibly this could some money.

Quote:

---

More employees to perform activities they were not directed to by Congress?

---

Maybe.

Bottomline is I'd be more excited if a law is passed to lower my taxes. Then IRS can focus on collection of consumption taxes.

So.. Basically fire a bunch of IRS employees and prevent conservatives from getting audited.

I am still all for IRS auditing corporations, businesses and especially farmers. In my anecdotal experience, Farmers are the biggest tax cheats. And they illegally use farm diesel all the time. And CA farmers are rich mother****er. So are the Corp who now own farms!

APHIS AG said:

---

rocky the dog said:

---

---

Only a Democrat would declare this as a "victory".

---

Exactly. This only reinforces just how bloated our government is.

AggieDruggist89 said:

---

So.. Basically fire a bunch of IRS employees and prevent conservatives from getting audited.

I am still all for IRS auditing corporations, businesses and especially farmers. In my anecdotal experience, Farmers are the biggest tax cheats. And they illegally use farm diesel all the time. And CA farmers are rich mother****er. So are the Corp who now own farms!

---

Small businesses and realtors probably cheat more than farmers.

Know a realtor who put in a $15k Generac at their house and deduct the whole thing. Same for about half their vacations.

Sometimes the IRS catches up, sometimes they never do.

There are plenty of legitimate, lawful deductions for businesses. When you push the envelope, you eventually cross the line.

How are the farmers cheating on the taxes - just out of curiosity?

Sounds like never a better time to be a tax cheat!

Maybe they plan on implementing a massive LLM to use AI to perform audits, that would be interesting.

AggieDruggist89 said:

---

So.. Basically fire a bunch of IRS employees and prevent conservatives from getting audited.

I am still all for IRS auditing corporations, businesses and especially farmers. In my anecdotal experience, Farmers are the biggest tax cheats. And they illegally use farm diesel all the time. And CA farmers are rich mother****er. So are the Corp who now own farms!

---

As a member of a farm "corporation," I think you have a misconception of what most farm corps are. Most are second or third generation farm families just trying to keep the farm in the family. No rich people in our corp, and no people making dubious tax write-offs.

SA68AG said:

---

The IRS needs to expand in one area - Non-profits.

All the BLMs, Clinton Foundation and NGOs need to be audited and have their statuses revoked if in non-compliance.

---

Drunk and high this early?

You like to ****ing party!!!!!


I agree but you know that won't be how it goes down. Even with President Trump. The lower ranks will find all of the good guys to harass

The layoff number at a minimum needs to reach 87,000 to get rid of the massive expansion from Biden

AggieDruggist89 said:

---

Slicer97 said:

---

Less IRS.

---

Who does that benefit? Tax codes aren't written by IRS. It's the congress, right?

How does less IRS benefit average middle class Americans?

---

Do you feel the IRS fairly and impartially administrates the tax code as written?

Or do you believe the IRS selectively targets those whom the administration in power wishes to punish or those who do not have the resources to meaningfully defend themselves from prosecution, and makes up regulations as it deems helpful?

The answers to this question will determine the answer to your question. I don't know about you, but the prospect of 87,000 additional IRS agents, many with the license to enforce "the law" with firearms pulled, working for Kamala Harris to achieve her political goals sent chills up my spine, and not in a good way.

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

Most are second or third generation farm families just trying to keep the farm in the family. No rich people in our corp, and no people making dubious tax write-offs.

---

That what all my farming friends say... Driving off in his lambo. But his family owns very large acreage of almonds and cherries.

I don't know. Another farming family I know buys everything under the farm, 5 trucks, horses for roping, 2 horse trailers, 2 travel trailers, pontoon, golf cart, 2 Polaris Rzr for kids.

Maybe tax cheat is harsh. They have more opportunities to deduct is a better description.

Since taxation is simply theft by gubmint, I'd go with the latter as well.

Bulldog73 said:

---

AggieDruggist89 said:

---

Slicer97 said:

---

Less IRS.

---

Who does that benefit? Tax codes aren't written by IRS. It's the congress, right?

How does less IRS benefit average middle class Americans?

---

Do you feel the IRS fairly and impartially administrates the tax code as written?

Or do you believe the IRS selectively targets those whom the administration in power wishes to punish or those who do not have the resources to meaningfully defend themselves from prosecution, and makes up regulations as it deems helpful?

The answers to this question will determine the answer to your question. I don't know about you, but the prospect of 87,000 additional IRS agents, many with the license to enforce "the law" with firearms pulled, working for Kamala Harris to achieve her political goals sent chills up my spine, and not in a good way.

---

You're really directing your anger against Libtards in a wrong way here.

Im not opposed to the audit.

Im genuinely curious how this will translate to me personally paying less taxes is all.

No need to get all fired up. We are on the same side.

That's the problem.... less taxes is not the goal. Im all for auditing/slicing a lot of the BS, but the goal is more "owning the libs" than anything else.

Ag_of_08 said:

---

That's the problem.... less taxes is not the goal. Im all for auditing/slicing a lot of the BS, but the goal is more "owning the libs" than anything else.

---

Purging the Libs is fun for now. But eventually we need better economy for the middle Americans. If I pay less taxes, I'd spend more money and have more fun.

Again, some may. That is not what most farm corps are. The farm itself has lots of hard assets. Not a single sports car, though. I'll have to bring it up at the next meeting. It's going to take a lot of lease checks to buy a Lambo.

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

Again, some may. That is not what most farm corps are. The farm itself has lots of hard assets. Not a single sports car, though. I'll have to bring it up at the next meeting. It's going to take a lot of lease checks to buy a Lambo.

---

I won't call you a tax cheat. I apologize if I did. I don't really know much about farm finances other than having worked in Central California Farm region and got to know many farmers. But driving around SH99 in CA, in between the trees are mega 10,000 sqft mansions typically owned by farmers. Common saying in the area was "oh they farm. They got money" and your typical stay home moms with big new SUV are from farming families. And of course from farmers we hear "oh it's tough this year."

kb2001 said:

---

The layoff number at a minimum needs to reach 87,000 to get rid of the massive expansion from Biden

---

If I told you those people never actually got hired and that they won't be now that DJT is in office, would you say the number of layoffs needed to go down?

Slicer97 said:

---

Less IRS.

---

How about NO IRS? At all. Of ANY kind.

That'd suit me just fine.

AgCat93 said:

---

Slicer97 said:

---

Less IRS.

---

How about NO IRS? At all. Of ANY kind.

---

Then who would audit consumption tax collection and corporate taxes?

I understand what you are saying, but your anger is displaced. Most of those farmers are justvtakinh advantage of the tax laws.

I worked for Garver Ranches Inc in the early 70s when I was 19 and 20. We harvest peas and wheat around Walla Walla, for three months; both Garver's fields and custom harvesting. 90 percent of his income came in three months. The remaining 9 months were spent maintaining/repairing equipment and fences, preparing fields, and planting. Mr. Garver did have a nice (not extravagant) house, lots of acreage (not all adjacent) and drove a Mercedes 450SL as a field car.

I do not know what happened to the farm corp, but most ofthat area is now wineries.

I will never be grudge someone for taking advantage of the tax code, how large their income is, or how little taxes they pay. If you do not like a business being able to write off equipment and vehicles, lobby to get the tax code changed. If you do not like someone being able to receive tax credits, refundable or otherwise, get the tax code changed.

I have stated before, my personal preference is to do away with direct federal taxation, and make the states responsible for funding the federal budget. That would assume we actually get a real federal budget.

I am not angry and I don't have issues with proper deductions. Certainly I took advantage of proper deductions in my LLC days.

But I also don't object to deductions being scrutinized.

Shortly after Biden took office he directed the IRS to begin targeting large Family offices and American owned oil & gas companies. The IRS opened up audits on them with their minds made up they were not "paying their fair share". They didn't care how the tax laws were written they only cared about their interpretation of the law. For close to 4 years now these offices and companies have been under audit going back 3 years.

Just another example of Biden weaponizing the government against its citizens. Tens of Millions of dollars spent trying to find a $10,000 mistake they can write up.

Most of these agents didn't work from their office and now are crying about having to either go in or GTFO. Hopefully this puts an end to this practice of targeting people and company with no cause.

infinity ag said:

---

Does that mean my tax refunds are going to be delayed?

---

Lol at people that get refunds.

I didn't experience that. I have not had any family office clients audited for more than the normal 3 year period and those are just with the old fashioned incompetent IRS agent with no understanding of either tax law or the IRS' own procedures. Once I educate them on both of those, things go smoothly. The thing that I have seen is CAP clients getting pushed out of the program for various reasons and some taking themselves out because IRS hasn't finished the audit by the time they file the return. There's no point in CAP if you still get audited later. APMA can't get their **** together either so the normal 4 year APAs are extended to 5 and 6 years, and then they are still not signed until after the last year is filed.

Most large corporations are on a continuous 3 year audit cycle - they are always being audited. There aren't big changes because they have external auditors applying the same scrutiny to all their tax positions and forcing the company to put up reserves for bad positions. The smaller businesses I've dealt with are the biggest culprits with bad deductions and garbage tax positions. They get **** tax advice from bad CPAs and then blame the IRS for the audit instead of realizing the positions they took weren't complicated or controversial. They just didn't follow the rules because they felt entitled.

AggieDruggist89 said:

---

So.. Basically fire a bunch of IRS employees and prevent conservatives from getting audited.

I am still all for IRS auditing corporations, businesses and especially farmers. In my anecdotal experience, Farmers are the biggest tax cheats. And they illegally use farm diesel all the time. And CA farmers are rich mother****er. So are the Corp who now own farms!

---

I did something north of 11,000 tax returns before I retired and based on my experience, I do not recall there was any specific industry or occupation where people were "cheating" on their returns. Certain occupations (farming being one of them but actually anyone that was self-employed) lent themselves to erroneous things in the return, due in part to the need for equipment purchases and the mixing personal stuff with business stuff.

I had a lot of folks come to me to do their work, but took almost no new clients my final ten years in practice. A lot of that stemmed from seeing the nature of what they were used to tax-wise. I could look at a return, ask a few questions, and knew I didn't want to take them on based on what they were used to with regard to their return and their preparer.

We bought an RV park for my son to run and the first few years someone was on site 7 days a week for four hours in the afternoon. I would go down on Saturday and Sunday so he could have the weekend off and much of the time I would be in the office doing tax returns. Most of the tenants would say they wanted me to do their return and my reply was no you don't. They would say why, do you charge a lot. And I would say no, because if I do it you will get a smaller refund, or possibly owe tax. Reason being, most of these people were working on pipelines or plant expansions, working away from home, thus getting per diem of $30,000 to $50,000 a year. And they were deducting the related expenses (lot rent, their RV, meals, vehicle expenses) but none of them, not a single one, reduced the expenses by the per diem monies they received. They were not "cheating" but the person doing their return didn't know the rules, or knew them and chose not to follow them so the return was very wrong. Most of them used preparers like "Betty's Bookkeeping & Tax Service" or "Ethel's Tax Preparation and Tanning Salon."

Hispanics had a propensity, if married, to each file as head of household and allocated the kids where it did the most good (back when the personal exemptions were still allowed).

If I were the IRS, I would audit a huge percentage of returns (depending on the level of income) prepared by the Betty's Bookkeeping types of preparer (not a CPA) and a huge percentage of partnerships and S corporations that had large losses (likely prepared by a CPA) and look at the partners/shareholders individual returns as it relates to passive losses, basis, and at risk. I would also require depreciation schedules to be attached to the return. A cursory review, often only a couple of minutes, would reveal many errors. Lot of money to get in all those areas.

I guess all this is a long-winded way of saying that, at least based on my experience, much of the problem rests with poor preparers, an overly complex code, more than people consciously "cheating" though that does exist.

infinity ag said:

---

Does that mean my tax refunds are going to be delayed?

---

What's a refund?

I have heard directly that the IRS agents came after these large family offices and O&G companies believing they wrre8paying their fair share. That was a direct quote from one of the lead IRS agents.
Basically saying we know you are cheating on your taxes. We don't have any proof but we are going to apply the full force of the agency and find it.
Like you said most of these agents have no idea how corporate and family office tax works but they are convinced they are right. At no time has it been smooth sailing even after spending months explaing how it works and why they are wrong. They keep coming back with what they think are gotcha findings and everytime they are wrong.

taxpreparer said:

---

I understand what you are saying, but your anger is displaced. Most of those farmers are justvtakinh advantage of the tax laws.

---

Agree 100%. Most of my farm clients were not rich, or well off, because of what they planted in the ground or fed and sold, but because they owned land, and often, lots of it. Most of them (or their parents or grandparents) purchased that land for under $50 an acre and held on to it.

One benefit of owning land, at least to those in my area who bought it long ago, was that they still had the minerals. When the 3D seismic became the thing, many of my folks went from a few hundred dollars in royalties to $1 to $3 million in annual royalties. Additionally, many, many pipelines came through (and still are) and they were getting $900 to around $2,000 per rod or more.

People would comment "old man so and so is a farmer" and never realize his wealth didn't come from planting rice or running a couple hundred head of cattle.

AggieDruggist89 said:

---

So.. Basically fire a bunch of IRS employees and prevent conservatives from getting audited.

I am still all for IRS auditing corporations, businesses and especially farmers.

And CA farmers are rich mother****er. So are the Corp who now own farms!

---

So? Who cares how much someone else has? And why would that mean that they deserve to be hassled by the IRS more than anyone else?

How about quit wishing ill upon those who have more than you do and start wishing ill upon your fellow citizens who make a living off of their neighbors and then show up at said neighbor's home to demand they pay even more under the threat of imprisonment?

4 said:

---

AggieDruggist89 said:

---

So.. Basically fire a bunch of IRS employees and prevent conservatives from getting audited.

I am still all for IRS auditing corporations, businesses and especially farmers.

And CA farmers are rich mother****er. So are the Corp who now own farms!

---

So? Who cares how much someone else has? And why would that mean that they deserve to be hassled by the IRS more than anyone else?

How about quit wishing ill upon those who have more than you do and start wishing ill upon your fellow citizens who make a living off of their neighbors and then show up at said neighbor's home to demand they pay even more under the threat of imprisonment?

---

Ok right.

So you're good with Pelosi's insider trading. Got it.

Of course it won't be IRS but DOGE going after her and other high networth politicians.

Stick to the argument.

Why should people who you deem to be "rich" deserve to be hassled by the IRS more than anyone else?

AggieDruggist89 said:

---

So.. Basically fire a bunch of IRS employees and prevent conservatives from getting audited.

I am still all for IRS auditing corporations, businesses and especially farmers. In my anecdotal experience, Farmers are the biggest tax cheats. And they illegally use farm diesel all the time. And CA farmers are rich mother****er. So are the Corp who now own farms!

---

Your cynicism and obvious bias renders the conclusions in your post and anecdotal claim worthless, if revealing. Says more about you than farmers as a group.

Farmers are incentivized to purchase equipment, supplies, services, etc. in order to keep money in circulation, thus stimulating the economy.

Or would you prefer that incentive disappear, more money collected by the IRS that they can turn over to USAID and the like to "dump onto the entire world economy?"