Canyon Lake Agbu94 said:

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the most cool guy said:

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I just paid $34,000 in property taxes a week ago and I only get to deduct $10k. It would be really great if we could get rid of this stupid cap. The SALT deduction does not disproportionately benefit Texans, that is for sure. Our property taxes are so ****ing high we're actually paying more than many people elsewhere pay in state income tax.

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Technically, if you account for the general sales tax that is included in that $10k limit, even less than the capped amount comes from your substantial property taxes. These state property taxes need to be reined in. $34,000.00 seems crazy, even if you doubled up payments in one year.

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It's a brag, you would have live in a multimillion dollar house to have a property tax bill that high.

Goes to show most people still support high taxes becuase it's somebody else paying it.

Lived in Harris County for almost 40 years and sold our home in 2021. Tax rates are way over $2.00 per $100 valuation by the time you add MUD, HOA, EMS, etc. Also the valuation goes up every year. My son purchased a home recently and in some areas the total tax assessment was over $3.00 and pushing $3.50. State and local taxes are rising faster than the National debt. And then you add the dramatic rise of home insurance over the past 10 years.

The SALT cap was an increase in taxes for the middle class and a tax cut for the upper class.

High earners get around the SALT cap with pass-through entity taxes in their partnership interests. The middle class that pays more than $10k in SALT, but isn't wealthy enough to own partnership interests electing into PTET regimes, get screwed.

Brother Shamus said:

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Goes to show most people still support high taxes becuase it's somebody else paying it.

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I'd say it's more like I don't think it's fair that people want a tax break simply because they own very expensive real estate, while those who don't get no such break. Why should I pay more in federal income tax than the guy struggling to pay for the mansion that he knew was going to have high property taxes even if we earn the same amount of money? How about we just lower the tax rate?

1939 said:

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Brother Shamus said:

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Goes to show most people still support high taxes becuase it's somebody else paying it.

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I'd say it's more like I don't think it's fair that people want a tax break simply because they own very expensive real estate, while those who don't get no such break. Why should I pay more in federal income tax than the guy struggling to pay for the mansion that he knew was going to have high property taxes even if we earn the same amount of money? How about we just lower the tax rate?

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I feel it's not right to charge a tax on the income earned to pay another tax. So if I earn $100K and pay $25K in income tax…and then have to use $10K of that remaining $75K to pay another tax….i don't feel like I should have to pay income tax on the portion that was used to pay the property tax. That double taxation is what SALT attempts to eliminate. Trying to say that some amount of double taxation is okay as long as it only affects folks wealthier than me just feels like flat out jealous socialism.

1939 said:

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Brother Shamus said:

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Goes to show most people still support high taxes becuase it's somebody else paying it.

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I'd say it's more like I don't think it's fair that people want a tax break simply because they own very expensive real estate, while those who don't get no such break. Why should I pay more in federal income tax than the guy struggling to pay for the mansion that he knew was going to have high property taxes even if we earn the same amount of money? How about we just lower the tax rate?

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Look the wealthy are really the only ones currently getting hosed with fed income taxes. Most conservatives want a flat tax and that is considered to be the gold standard of fairness. By most accounts the flat tax rate will be around 15%.

A family of four that contributes to their IRA has to earn more than $275k annually to exceed that 15% tax rate. And only 5% of US households make more than $275k annually.

95% of Americans are already being treated fairly from a fed income tax perspective when compared to those truly footing the fed tax bill. Almost all tax relief for that top 5% is necessary until they are down near a 15% net fed income tax rate.

I didn't even notice fed income taxes between $250K and $400k. Once I hit $400k, it was like every deduction went away and I was paying through the nose.

SALT should go away entirely. It is 100% shifting federal tax burden between states. That's all it accomplishes in the end. Pure BS. If they want to give a federal tax break, lower the rates. Simple.

The vast majority of folks….even those that post on this forum….have no idea about how deductions and exemptions quickly phase out as income increases….all while marginal rates increase. There is a point where you actually only keep about 25% of each additional dollar earned while you are in the "phase out" brackets. Not a huge impact on the very wealthy….hut a huge impact on the two professional income comfortable.

HarleySpoon said:

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The vast majority of folks….even those that post on this forum….have no idea about how deductions and exemptions quickly phase out as income increases….all while marginal rates increase. There is a point where you actually only keep about 25% of each additional dollar earned while you are in the "phase out" brackets. Not a huge impact on the very wealthy….hut a huge impact on the two professional income comfortable.

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Nobody here is arguing that taxes are not high. The answer to high taxes is cutting the tax rate.

Let's say 2 people each make $200k per year

One of these 2 lives in an expensive home and pays $30k in property tax. The other lives in a moderate home and pays $9,000.

Why should the guy that lives in the big house get to deduct $30k off his federal income taxable income and the other guy only $9k?

It's makes zero sense, just like your argument about double taxation. all it does is allow states to raise their taxes and essentially steal those dollars from the federal government by shifting the tax burden. The fact that the tax rate is high for higher earners makes no difference in this case.

I have a feeling you don't like the salt tax because it caps your deduction, not because it's good policy.

The tax code is ******ed and designed to create as big a govt employment and enforcement req as possible, along with loopholes.

They could make a flat tax or consumption tax for same revenue with virtually no enforcement necessary

1939 said:

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HarleySpoon said:

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The vast majority of folks….even those that post on this forum….have no idea about how deductions and exemptions quickly phase out as income increases….all while marginal rates increase. There is a point where you actually only keep about 25% of each additional dollar earned while you are in the "phase out" brackets. Not a huge impact on the very wealthy….hut a huge impact on the two professional income comfortable.

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Nobody here is arguing that taxes are not high. The answer to high taxes is cutting the tax rate.

Let's say 2 people each make $200k per year

One of these 2 lives in an expensive home and pays $30k in property tax. The other lives in a moderate home and pays $9,000.

Why should the guy that lives in the big house get to deduct $30k off his federal income taxable income and the other guy only $9k?

It's makes zero sense, just like your argument about double taxation. all it does is allow states to raise their taxes and essentially steal those dollars from the federal government by shifting the tax burden. The fact that the tax rate is high for higher earners makes no difference in this case.

I have a feeling you don't like the salt tax because it caps your deduction, not because it's good policy.

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The solution is that everyone pays the exact same rate on their first to their last dollar and then all of us as citizens with equal skin in the game can vote to determine what that rate is.

When do you expect that this will happen? When 95% of Americans are largely detached from the serious consequences of our current progressive taxation theft scheme.

Do you believe that most conservatives even on this forum give a crap about the plights of that top 5%? They will gladly lower their effective tax rate from 10 to 8% long before the lower the top tax brackets.

That is the beauty of a progressive tax structure, those getting hosed do not have the votes to resist.

HarleySpoon said:

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The vast majority of folks….even those that post on this forum….have no idea about how deductions and exemptions quickly phase out as income increases….all while marginal rates increase. There is a point where you actually only keep about 25% of each additional dollar earned while you are in the "phase out" brackets. Not a huge impact on the very wealthy….hut a huge impact on the two professional income comfortable.

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CPA here. I know exactly how they work. I also know that deductions, phase-outs, etc overly complicate the code. Lower the rates. SALT deductions shift the burden from citizens between states. Period.

Trucker 96 said:

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HarleySpoon said:

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The vast majority of folks….even those that post on this forum….have no idea about how deductions and exemptions quickly phase out as income increases….all while marginal rates increase. There is a point where you actually only keep about 25% of each additional dollar earned while you are in the "phase out" brackets. Not a huge impact on the very wealthy….hut a huge impact on the two professional income comfortable.

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CPA here. I know exactly how they work. I also know that deductions, phase-outs, etc overly complicate the code. Lower the rates. SALT deductions shift the burden from citizens between states. Period.

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Do you actually believe that the top rates will be cut the most?

Because those are the people the most in need of relief.

The overwhelming majority already pay under what a flat tax would be.

The last thing we need to do is increase the number of people with little to no skin in the game. That is already the crux of the problem.

Nowhere did I say top rates should be cut the most, so no. I'd cut them across the board. And I do think basically everyone should have skin in the game. I could accept leaving a standard deduction, although smaller than we have now. So that takes a few at the bottom, but nothing like we have now. Get rid of the EIC. Get rid of basically all tax credits. No credit for having kids, needing child care, etc. No personal exemptions. No SALT deductions. No mortgage deductions. I'd leave a lower long-term capital gains rate structure. I'd allow current 401k/IRA rules to stay in place. That's it. Simple.

Trucker 96 said:

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Nowhere did I say top rates should be cut the most, so no. I'd cut them across the board. And I do think basically everyone should have skin in the game. I could accept leaving a standard deduction, although smaller than we have now. So that takes a few at the bottom, but nothing like we have now. Get rid of the EIC. Get rid of basically all tax credits. No credit for having kids, needing child care, etc. No personal exemptions. I'd leave a lower long-term capital gains rate structure. I'd allow current 401k/IRA rules to stay in place. That's it. Simple.

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What would have the highest tax bracket set at?

AG86PF said:

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Maybe I'm dumb and don't understand it...so help me out if I'm wrong...

But isn't this eliminating the $10,000 cap on State and Local Taxes? Meaning the states like NY and Cali that have income taxes will be able to deduct any amount of State Income taxes they pay instead of it being capped at $10,000?

Seriously if I have this wrong then help me out with it. But that sounds like an incentive for them to pay more State Income tax and have it taken out of their Federal? Helping out the states who voted for a state income tax? It sounds like it puts more of the federal tax burden on us and lets them concentrate on their local/state tax burden.

I realize it is a deduction not a credit so maybe it isn't a big deal to me after all. But just seems like something I don't want to be in favor of. Again, help me understand it better please

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That's politics when you have a few republican congress people from California and New York and a three or four seat majority in the House.

Not sure. After I remove all of the other deductions, credits, and other bull****, I'd need to see how the math works out and would decide from there. They'd be lower than they are now; I can assure that.

Trucker 96 said:

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Not sure. After I remove all of the other deductions, credits, and other bull****, I'd need to see how the math works out and would decide from there. They'd be lower than they are now; I can assure that.

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What matters is that they are in line with the lower brackets. Progressive taxation is socialist bs to try and level the playing field after the scores are tallied.

The "rich" already pay almost 1/2. That is insane. I do not consume more federal benefits than those paying net zero. Hell, they probably consume more.

Either equalize the rate or they shouldn't have as high a percentage of the vote.

DeLaHonta said:

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The SALT cap was an increase in taxes for the middle class and a tax cut for the upper class.

High earners get around the SALT cap with pass-through entity taxes in their partnership interests. The middle class that pays more than $10k in SALT, but isn't wealthy enough to own partnership interests electing into PTET regimes, get screwed.

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this

I live in the real world where a flat tax is just never going to happen. We can pine for it all day. But what I'm proposing absolutely could.

Trucker 96 said:

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I live in the real world where a flat tax is just never going to happen. We can pine for it all day. But what I'm proposing absolutely could.

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Then F it. Let the "rich" keep their carve out. The middle class already has a fair tax rate. If conservatives are going to engage in class warfare, so be it.

Either we all pay the same rate or its every man for himself. I have always played it safe when it came to taxes but have now decided that I am going to start pushing the envelope with tax avoidance strategies. Which is sad, because I never batted an eye at paying my 10-15%. 30+% is a non starter.

Not sure what you were waiting for.

Whatever "class warfare" spin you want to put on it, high tax states shifting their federal burden to other states is bull****

Trucker 96 said:

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Not sure what you were waiting for.

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Not willing to compromise my ethics. Most of my peers pay essentially net 10% because they lie and run their personal expenses through their business and pocket all cash directly. I have not done that hoping that conservative principles would prevail.

Time to go all TeslaAg and screw everybody else.

Ah, so you want to just be a tax cheat. You could have just said that. If you've been waiting around for a flat tax, lol.

Most of the blue states enacted PTE workarounds to bypass the cap.

Trucker 96 said:

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Not sure what you were waiting for.

Whatever "class warfare" spin you want to put on it, high tax states shifting their federal burden to other states is bull****

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Agreed, now lower the tax brackets on the ones actually paying for everything.

I would make tax accountants obsolete. You can join my wife as an industry accountant pimping that controller title.

I'm a VP at a fortune 50. I have never done taxes. I've been proposing massive simplification the entire thread, so yeah, fewer tax accountants. You could do what I'm proposing on one page

Trucker 96 said:

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Ah, so you want to just be a tax cheat. You could have just said that. If you've been waiting around for a flat tax, lol.

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I'm the sucker getting cheated by the LoL poors.