infinity ag said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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infinity ag said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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aTmAg said:

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A bunch of people will simply not be able to get credit cards anymore.

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In fairness, there's a ton of people who shouldn't have them. That 29.9% rate covers the cost of those who just straight up default on cards.

Bring back cash.

ETA: let the CC companies adjust rates based upon credit score, user history, etc.

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Cash is for barbarians who lived in the 20th century.
We need payment apps. I just scan and transfer. No credit card nonsense. No cash to carry.,

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I'm a barbarian then. Love me some cash.

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You are probably from the 19th century then. Wake up, it is 2025.

If you use cash, you are at risk. With CCs if someone steals money or puts charges, you can get the money back. You are protected. I've had this situation many times.

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Cash is still king. Deals can be had.

DrEvazanPhD said:

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infinity ag said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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infinity ag said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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aTmAg said:

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A bunch of people will simply not be able to get credit cards anymore.

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In fairness, there's a ton of people who shouldn't have them. That 29.9% rate covers the cost of those who just straight up default on cards.

Bring back cash.

ETA: let the CC companies adjust rates based upon credit score, user history, etc.

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Cash is for barbarians who lived in the 20th century.
We need payment apps. I just scan and transfer. No credit card nonsense. No cash to carry.,

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I'm a barbarian then. Love me some cash.

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You are probably from the 19th century then. Wake up, it is 2025.

If you use cash, you are at risk. With CCs if someone steals money or puts charges, you can get the money back. You are protected. I've had this situation many times.

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Cash is still king. Deals can be had.

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p

For some things you might be able to get a lower price cash, but for most you can't. And you sure won't be getting percentages in back in rewards or actual discounts.

Most of the time it's even better to take the terrible car dealer financing and then paying it off the first month than paying them cash.

What about getting paid in cash and then using it to pay expenses?

[If you insist on being disrespectful to other posters, then take a break -- Staff]

Make their tax rate equivalent to the interest rate charged on their cards.

Tom Fox said:

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What about getting paid in cash and then using it to pay expenses?

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That's a different scenario for most Americans. But if I were running a business like that I'd probably deposit it so it's easier to pay taxes on the income.

Teslag said:

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Tom Fox said:

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What about getting paid in cash and then using it to pay expenses?

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That's a different scenario for most Americans. But if I were running a business like that I'd probably deposit it so it's easier to pay taxes on the income.

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Of course. We deposit all of the $800k we take in annually in cash and joyfully pay our 30% net fed income taxes.

I'm just saying that if the govt raises income taxes on the top 1% to let's say 50%, I'd like some options to mitigate that insanity.

aTmAg said:

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A bunch of people will simply not be able to get credit cards anymore.

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Amazes me how many people can that shouldn't.

No Spin Ag said:

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aTmAg said:

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A bunch of people will simply not be able to get credit cards anymore.

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Then they never should have had them.

Kind of like I'm the early aughts when people were buying houses when they needed special means to get them because they couldn't really afford them, companies and banks were just using them as a means for profits. Shocking, i know.

And we all know how that turned out.

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I fully support this, knowing that the consequence will be that very few people will be approved.

Bring back frugality.

4 said:

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Never understood why credit card companies seemed to be immune to usury laws...

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By being incorporated in states that don't have them.

Teslag said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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infinity ag said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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infinity ag said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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aTmAg said:

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A bunch of people will simply not be able to get credit cards anymore.

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In fairness, there's a ton of people who shouldn't have them. That 29.9% rate covers the cost of those who just straight up default on cards.

Bring back cash.

ETA: let the CC companies adjust rates based upon credit score, user history, etc.

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Cash is for barbarians who lived in the 20th century.
We need payment apps. I just scan and transfer. No credit card nonsense. No cash to carry.,

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I'm a barbarian then. Love me some cash.

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You are probably from the 19th century then. Wake up, it is 2025.

If you use cash, you are at risk. With CCs if someone steals money or puts charges, you can get the money back. You are protected. I've had this situation many times.

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Cash is still king. Deals can be had.

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p

For some things you might be able to get a lower price cash, but for most you can't. And you sure won't be getting percentages in back in rewards or actual discounts.

Most of the time it's even better to take the terrible car dealer financing and then paying it off the first month than paying them cash.

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But it's much cooler to walk in with a briefcase full of hundies yo

I'd agree with that. Nothing kills the mood for me faster than when a Romanian girl pulls out her square reader.

infinity ag said:

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aTm2004 said:

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The CC companies will make up the lost revenue by limiting or eliminating cards with no annual fee.

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This may happen.
I always get no annual fee cards and pay off every month. They make no money from people like myself.

They make their revenues from the dolts who run up bills and don't pay and accumulate large amounts of debt.

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Did you forget about the transaction fees they charge merchants? Why do you think some gas stations have cash and cc prices that are different, with cc price typically 10 cents higher than cash?

rab79 said:

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infinity ag said:

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aTm2004 said:

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The CC companies will make up the lost revenue by limiting or eliminating cards with no annual fee.

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This may happen.
I always get no annual fee cards and pay off every month. They make no money from people like myself.

They make their revenues from the dolts who run up bills and don't pay and accumulate large amounts of debt.

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Did you forget about the transaction fees they charge merchants? Why do you think some gas stations have cash and cc prices that are different, with cc price typically 10 cents higher than cash?

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My business pays $50K annually in CC fees. Most people only view the world through their own myopic lenses.

rab79 said:

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infinity ag said:

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aTm2004 said:

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The CC companies will make up the lost revenue by limiting or eliminating cards with no annual fee.

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This may happen.
I always get no annual fee cards and pay off every month. They make no money from people like myself.

They make their revenues from the dolts who run up bills and don't pay and accumulate large amounts of debt.

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Did you forget about the transaction fees they charge merchants? Why do you think some gas stations have cash and cc prices that are different, with cc price typically 10 cents higher than cash?

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Most of those places are usually Apu run ****holes or truck stops.

Nobody uses a credit card without knowing the rates should they not pay it back. Personal responsibility isn't a thing anymore? Literally no one makes you get a credit card. No one makes you keep a balance. Don't spend what you don't have.

Merchant fee will shoot up a lot. It will be passed onto consumers.

aTmAg said:

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A bunch of people will simply not be able to get credit cards anymore.

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Or they won't qualify for large limits, which is probably a good thing. Using CC's for small purchases, or price tracking for gas & groceries makes sense, spending beyond that to the tune of thousands when the interes is 17+% is BSC.

aTmAg said:

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A bunch of people will simply not be able to get credit cards anymore.

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Probably not a terrible thing

Rossticus said:

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Kenneth_2003 said:

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Rossticus said:

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This could potentially result in additional business from people with good credit and assets who need a quick $10,000 - $20,000 of credit for something. Why take out a private loan or less flexible HELOC at 7%+, plus fees, when you can put it on a card for a guaranteed 10% over 5 years?

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Are you implying that the fees are >3%?

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Average of 2-5% of the amount borrowed. Plus there's a minimum draw when you take out funds against it. It's bit less convenient than just putting it on a card. Some people would choose that convenience if they planned to pay off the amount quickly.

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Never had reason to explore that route.
Thanks for the info!

DaShi said:

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You guys clearly aren't aware that Texas has a usury limit capped at 10%.

National banks got around this by successfully lobbying for and getting the national bank act that allows them to effectively export the usury laws of their home state to our state

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And you clearly aren't aware Texas law specifically allows 18% interest for credit cards

Dream world to think real competition actually exists or even could exist in national banking. They should not only be capped, but broken up.

While they're charging us wildly high merchant fees and customer usage fees, they've started using XRP for near free transactions and have access to free money from the fed and treasury that they loan to us for profit

You're free to use cash if you want. No one is forcing you to use credit cards.

DaShi said:

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Dream world to think real competition actually exists or even could exist in national banking. They should not only be capped, but broken up.

While they're charging us wildly high merchant fees and customer usage fees, they've started using XRP for near free transactions and have access to free money from the fed and treasury that they loan to us for profit

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Free money from the fed? Also broken up? What have they done to limit competition? Have they forced regional and community banks to not get involved with merchant solutions? No, of course not. Smaller banks just don't have the resources to build out a merchant solution. How would you like daddy govt to fix that for you?

Teslag said:

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Right.

Using cash literally costs you money and is irresponsible.

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Now this is true.

I love using my credit card, not just because of the ease, but because I pay it off every few days ago I never pay interest, plus I usually get about fifty bucks in cash back from purchases. It's nice when the credit card company makes no money off you and is actually paying you to use it.

The ripple effect of this bill will be significant. Less credit at the lower end of the economic scale. Probably less credit at the middle of the economic scale as well. This will lead to business closures in low margin businesses such as restaurants. Wal Mart and Amazon will be fine, of course. But this will hurt young families ability to juggle their lives and force more "eat at home" and less grabbing food on the go.

Yes we can all agree that fewer people eating fast food is good and fewer people being able to rack up credit card debt is good but there are no solutions only trade offs. The trade here is going to be painful in some segments of the economy. Just something to be mindful of when you're cheering for more government.

The sources of revenue for the credit card companies is ****ing ludicrous.

They charge vendors somewhere between 2 and 4% of the transaction price.

Annual fees.

Then the credit card level of interest and fees and penalties.

Sure those cash back rewards look great, but Because cash has become so discouraged, the credit card companies and "payment vendors" have become a hidden middle man that take anywhere between 4-8% off the top of every transaction.....ensuring your dollar goes less and less further.

CC companies must be highly profitable. The handful of times my number got stolen, and a few thousand dollars of stuff got bought, they just wrote it off as "no problem".

fc2112 said:

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CC companies must be highly profitable. The handful of times my number got stolen, and a few thousand dollars of stuff got bought, they just wrote it off as "no problem".

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They are following the law, not blowing it off because they are making so much money

This will ultimately lead to people and politicians claiming credit cards are essential and the government will subsidize their credit like they do for school tuition.

No Spin Ag said:

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Teslag said:

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Right.

Using cash literally costs you money and is irresponsible.

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Now this is true.

I love using my credit card, not just because of the ease, but because I pay it off every few days ago I never pay interest, plus I usually get about fifty bucks in cash back from purchases. It's nice when the credit card company makes no money off you and is actually paying you to use it.

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They are making their money off of the business in those transactions. They are not letting their service be used out of the kindness of their hearts.

LOYAL AG said:

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The ripple effect of this bill will be significant. Less credit at the lower end of the economic scale. Probably less credit at the middle of the economic scale as well. This will lead to business closures in low margin businesses such as restaurants. Wal Mart and Amazon will be fine, of course. But this will hurt young families ability to juggle their lives and force more "eat at home" and less grabbing food on the go.

Yes we can all agree that fewer people eating fast food is good and fewer people being able to rack up credit card debt is good but there are no solutions only trade offs. The trade here is going to be painful in some segments of the economy. Just something to be mindful of when you're cheering for more government.

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Like everything being done these past two weeks, we're (the entire country) being adjusted in all facets, and so far, it's all been in the right direction, including this.

fc2112 said:

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CC companies must be highly profitable. The handful of times my number got stolen, and a few thousand dollars of stuff got bought, they just wrote it off as "no problem".

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They make good money in the good times to cover the lost money in the bad.

So I too use my American Airlines card to get free airfare, etc. And I have no illusion that all those points are paid for by me in what I pay for things.

But those CC transaction fees are already baked into retail prices. So if I pay cash, I'm still paying the higher prices to cover the fees, but not getting the miles.

Unless vendors can start charging different prices for cash transactions vs CC, why wouldn't I keep using my AA card?

fc2112 said:

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CC companies must be highly profitable. The handful of times my number got stolen, and a few thousand dollars of stuff got bought, they just wrote it off as "no problem".

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VISA profit % before taxes has been in the 50s and even looks to be in the 60s based on their 2024 income statement. As a comparison, AAPL is closer to 30%. Home Depot in 2023 was at 13%.