The constitutional right to a fully funded public school system.

The System said:

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The constitutional right to a fully funded public school system.

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Explain how.

The System said:

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The constitutional right to a fully funded public school system.

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Explain the logic here. I haven't seen anything in a bill that says they won't be funded for students that are enrolled.

What is realistically going to happen is that the fly-by night charters that already operate in murky waters are going to transition to "private" schools to capture the most money possible. Most charter schools are already POS, they will just get worse with no regulations. The pendulum will swing the other way quickly and private schools will find themselves bogged down under increasing regulations as TEA tries to find the right balance.

Get rid of recapture/Robin Hood, get rid of the TEA, get rid of all the STAAR requirements & CCMR requirements, and return local control to the local ISDs. That is the best thing Texas could do, but they won't because there's no $$$ involved in that.

Good catch.

bubblesthechimp said:

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The notion that affordable quality options will just pop up seems too optimistic to me given how difficult it is already to find affordable quality daycare/childcare these days despite overwhelming need.

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Its weird but markets are created or expanded whereever their is money and incentive. It wont be 5 years before we have lots of new private schools across the state. Parents will still have to do the hard work of vetting the private schools.

The System said:

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fightingfarmer09 said:

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Rossticus said:

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Owlagdad said:

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fightingfarmer09 said:

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agsalaska said:

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This.

One of the big misunderstandings is schools struggle to educate students because they are public. That's generally not true and just a knee jerk reaction from conservatives who are trained to think that way. Public schools struggle, fail, whatever you want to call it because they are over regulated and act as monopolies.
Our Universities are the best in the world and they are generally public but are forced to compete for students and staff.

Want to fix schools? Open enrollment and let schools compete for students. That and let teachers compete for better jobs at higher pay. Do that and 90% of the problems are solved.

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My brother teaches at a rural 3A school. Good academics, good athletics across the board, and just a quality Texas experience.

If they keep open enrollment like they have now tons of kids fleeing Houston will continue to drive their growth into 4a and 5a demands without the tax base. So they had to close their enrollment to keep the size smaller. But that means those kids just outside of the district can no longer attend and have to go to some poorer rural districts again.

Pass a voucher program that allows the good Texas districts to allow students to apply to get in, but allow the district to make those decisions themselves and get the funding to do it the right way.

---

Agree! But lawyers looking for payday would jump all over this because some turd wasn't allowed in. Media would smear those fine fine folks and their schools. Most school boards and Superintendents don't want to fight those battles- and really they shouldn't. Can't wait until private schools who accept vouchers and turn others down end up in court.

---

Ah! But now you've identified the TRUE crux of the issue. Public school quality is most frequently hamstrung by turds and their turd parents who soak up time and resources while negatively impacting the ability of educators to do their job. You put all those turds in a private school or otherwise high performing public school and suddenly the institution will begin to eerily resemble the much maligned low performing school that they originated from.

None of this addresses the issue, apart from facilitating a means by which some folks can isolate their children from the "turd effect" as much as possible. Schools and teachers always get the blame for not finding a way to simultaneously polish turds AND serve the quality students. If you're looking for a true solution the central issue, vouchers aren't it. Then again, I'm not sure that it's politically or societally feasible to acknowledge and address the true problem(s).

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The people that are fleeing the "turd effect"
have already left (love the term). This does nothing to help those that remained but artificially inflate the tuition making it harder from those deserving to get into a private school.

No proposal I have seen is worth even a vote, let alone support.

Radical idea, create a draft/trade system. If Catholic High wants the voucher for little Johnny then they have to take the voucher for little Tyrone. The amount of vouchers a school can receive is calculated based on a % of their enrollment that is in designated categories.

For every voucher they accept they have to take on a SPED designated kid. These are the vulnerable of the community that need better schools.

---

F16 doesn't care about any of that. Their kids are already in private school and isolated from the "turds". They just want you to pay for it now with absolutely zero strings attached.

Vouchers aren't about helping kids escape a bad public school. They overwhelmingly go to kids already in private school. Just a big entitlement program for the rich who shout loud about how bad government entitlement programs are.

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There are plenty of turds in private schools already. The parents pulled their little turd out of the toilet and hoped to get a new start at a new school. But turds do what turds do.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Texas Senate Bill 2 (SB2) proposes the creation of education savings accounts, allocating $10,000 per student annually to fund private school tuition and related expenses. While proponents argue this empowers parental choice, it’s crucial to recognize the potential consequences… pic.twitter.com/dlneAYUEco

— Matthew Gutiérrez, Ed.D. (@DrMattGutierrez) February 1, 2025

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Texas is a low cost state. It doesnt need to match the west coast or east coast on epenses.

Then theres the matter that there's plenty of research that shows that cities and states that spend more $'s per student dont have superior outcomes from the low cost cities and states.

None of that really addresses the information in the chart. Especially the issue of the vouchers spending more money on private schools than public schools.

I'm not against school choice but I've seen very little evidence that it improves educational outcomes as a whole and it appears Texas is just throwing money to private school and ****ing over the public schools.

WestAustinAg said:

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The System said:

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fightingfarmer09 said:

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Rossticus said:

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Owlagdad said:

---

fightingfarmer09 said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

This.

One of the big misunderstandings is schools struggle to educate students because they are public. That's generally not true and just a knee jerk reaction from conservatives who are trained to think that way. Public schools struggle, fail, whatever you want to call it because they are over regulated and act as monopolies.
Our Universities are the best in the world and they are generally public but are forced to compete for students and staff.

Want to fix schools? Open enrollment and let schools compete for students. That and let teachers compete for better jobs at higher pay. Do that and 90% of the problems are solved.

---

My brother teaches at a rural 3A school. Good academics, good athletics across the board, and just a quality Texas experience.

If they keep open enrollment like they have now tons of kids fleeing Houston will continue to drive their growth into 4a and 5a demands without the tax base. So they had to close their enrollment to keep the size smaller. But that means those kids just outside of the district can no longer attend and have to go to some poorer rural districts again.

Pass a voucher program that allows the good Texas districts to allow students to apply to get in, but allow the district to make those decisions themselves and get the funding to do it the right way.

---

Agree! But lawyers looking for payday would jump all over this because some turd wasn't allowed in. Media would smear those fine fine folks and their schools. Most school boards and Superintendents don't want to fight those battles- and really they shouldn't. Can't wait until private schools who accept vouchers and turn others down end up in court.

---

Ah! But now you've identified the TRUE crux of the issue. Public school quality is most frequently hamstrung by turds and their turd parents who soak up time and resources while negatively impacting the ability of educators to do their job. You put all those turds in a private school or otherwise high performing public school and suddenly the institution will begin to eerily resemble the much maligned low performing school that they originated from.

None of this addresses the issue, apart from facilitating a means by which some folks can isolate their children from the "turd effect" as much as possible. Schools and teachers always get the blame for not finding a way to simultaneously polish turds AND serve the quality students. If you're looking for a true solution the central issue, vouchers aren't it. Then again, I'm not sure that it's politically or societally feasible to acknowledge and address the true problem(s).

---

The people that are fleeing the "turd effect"
have already left (love the term). This does nothing to help those that remained but artificially inflate the tuition making it harder from those deserving to get into a private school.

No proposal I have seen is worth even a vote, let alone support.

Radical idea, create a draft/trade system. If Catholic High wants the voucher for little Johnny then they have to take the voucher for little Tyrone. The amount of vouchers a school can receive is calculated based on a % of their enrollment that is in designated categories.

For every voucher they accept they have to take on a SPED designated kid. These are the vulnerable of the community that need better schools.

---

F16 doesn't care about any of that. Their kids are already in private school and isolated from the "turds". They just want you to pay for it now with absolutely zero strings attached.

Vouchers aren't about helping kids escape a bad public school. They overwhelmingly go to kids already in private school. Just a big entitlement program for the rich who shout loud about how bad government entitlement programs are.

---

There are plenty of turds in private schools already. The parents pulled their little turd out of the toilet and hoped to get a new start at a new school. But turds do what turds do.

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And the private school then gets to kick them out when they are tired of them.. And what happens to the money? Little Johnny gets a voucher, pays the private school, then gets kicked out after a few months and goes back to public school.

You can call it whatever term makes you feel good: voucher, school choice, educational savings account, parent empowerment, etc. At the end of the day, it's an entitlement program for the wealthy who love to tell everyone else how bad entitlement programs are.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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None of that really addresses the information in the chart. Especially the issue of the vouchers spending more money on private schools than public schools.

I'm not against school choice but I've seen very little evidence that it improves educational outcomes as a whole and it appears Texas is just throwing money to private school and ****ing over the public schools.

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Because that is handwaving by public school defenders. The average ISD spends over $16k per student and when you exclude facilities bonds (which, why would you? that's still taxpayer money) it's over $12k per student. All of that is taxpayer money. The people making a distinction about the $6500 and $10k are focusing only on general fund monies and presenting a distorted view.

The System said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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The System said:

---

fightingfarmer09 said:

---

Rossticus said:

---

Owlagdad said:

---

fightingfarmer09 said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

This.

One of the big misunderstandings is schools struggle to educate students because they are public. That's generally not true and just a knee jerk reaction from conservatives who are trained to think that way. Public schools struggle, fail, whatever you want to call it because they are over regulated and act as monopolies.
Our Universities are the best in the world and they are generally public but are forced to compete for students and staff.

Want to fix schools? Open enrollment and let schools compete for students. That and let teachers compete for better jobs at higher pay. Do that and 90% of the problems are solved.

---

My brother teaches at a rural 3A school. Good academics, good athletics across the board, and just a quality Texas experience.

If they keep open enrollment like they have now tons of kids fleeing Houston will continue to drive their growth into 4a and 5a demands without the tax base. So they had to close their enrollment to keep the size smaller. But that means those kids just outside of the district can no longer attend and have to go to some poorer rural districts again.

Pass a voucher program that allows the good Texas districts to allow students to apply to get in, but allow the district to make those decisions themselves and get the funding to do it the right way.

---

Agree! But lawyers looking for payday would jump all over this because some turd wasn't allowed in. Media would smear those fine fine folks and their schools. Most school boards and Superintendents don't want to fight those battles- and really they shouldn't. Can't wait until private schools who accept vouchers and turn others down end up in court.

---

Ah! But now you've identified the TRUE crux of the issue. Public school quality is most frequently hamstrung by turds and their turd parents who soak up time and resources while negatively impacting the ability of educators to do their job. You put all those turds in a private school or otherwise high performing public school and suddenly the institution will begin to eerily resemble the much maligned low performing school that they originated from.

None of this addresses the issue, apart from facilitating a means by which some folks can isolate their children from the "turd effect" as much as possible. Schools and teachers always get the blame for not finding a way to simultaneously polish turds AND serve the quality students. If you're looking for a true solution the central issue, vouchers aren't it. Then again, I'm not sure that it's politically or societally feasible to acknowledge and address the true problem(s).

---

The people that are fleeing the "turd effect"
have already left (love the term). This does nothing to help those that remained but artificially inflate the tuition making it harder from those deserving to get into a private school.

No proposal I have seen is worth even a vote, let alone support.

Radical idea, create a draft/trade system. If Catholic High wants the voucher for little Johnny then they have to take the voucher for little Tyrone. The amount of vouchers a school can receive is calculated based on a % of their enrollment that is in designated categories.

For every voucher they accept they have to take on a SPED designated kid. These are the vulnerable of the community that need better schools.

---

F16 doesn't care about any of that. Their kids are already in private school and isolated from the "turds". They just want you to pay for it now with absolutely zero strings attached.

Vouchers aren't about helping kids escape a bad public school. They overwhelmingly go to kids already in private school. Just a big entitlement program for the rich who shout loud about how bad government entitlement programs are.

---

There are plenty of turds in private schools already. The parents pulled their little turd out of the toilet and hoped to get a new start at a new school. But turds do what turds do.

---

And the private school then gets to kick them out when they are tired of them.. And what happens to the money? Little Johnny gets a voucher, pays the private school, then gets kicked out after a few months and goes back to public school.

You can call it whatever term makes you feel good: voucher, school choice, educational savings account, parent empowerment, etc. At the end of the day, it's an entitlement program for the wealthy who love to tell everyone else how bad entitlement programs are.

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The bill prioritizes low income households and applications with disabilities. What is the mechanism in the bill that would make it an entitlement for wealthy families?

I'm also still curious if you can expand on how it would remove the constitutional right to a fully funded public school system?

Fenrir said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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None of that really addresses the information in the chart. Especially the issue of the vouchers spending more money on private schools than public schools.

I'm not against school choice but I've seen very little evidence that it improves educational outcomes as a whole and it appears Texas is just throwing money to private school and ****ing over the public schools.

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Because that is handwaving by public school defenders. The average ISD spends over $16k per student and when you exclude facilities bonds (which, why would you? that's still taxpayer money) it's over $12k per student. All of that is taxpayer money. The people making a distinction about the $6500 and $10k are focusing only on general fund monies and presenting a distorted view.

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Not all students are the same. Spending on special education students is higher than a Gen Ed student.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Fenrir said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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None of that really addresses the information in the chart. Especially the issue of the vouchers spending more money on private schools than public schools.

I'm not against school choice but I've seen very little evidence that it improves educational outcomes as a whole and it appears Texas is just throwing money to private school and ****ing over the public schools.

---

Because that is handwaving by public school defenders. The average ISD spends over $16k per student and when you exclude facilities bonds (which, why would you? that's still taxpayer money) it's over $12k per student. All of that is taxpayer money. The people making a distinction about the $6500 and $10k are focusing only on general fund monies and presenting a distorted view.

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Not all students are the same. Spending on special education students is higher than a Gen Ed student.

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How does that justify presenting misleading numbers? People pushing the $6k vs $10k numbers are clearly trying to make it sound like public schools are not being funded as well as the vouchers would fund private schools. That's clearly a misrepresentation.

Beyond that, the voucher would only increase the amount to $11,500 for applications with disabilities which is still below both of those averages across the board that ISDs spend. I'm not seeing the relevance of the point you're attempting to make.

Do you know the cost of specialty schools for disabilities? It's about 5 times the amount of a voucher. So I don't think poor special Ed students will be utilizing a voucher that will only pay about 1/5 of the cost.

Secondly, private schools don't have to accept special education students nor do they have to provide any special services for those kids. Once again, kids with disabilities, especially poor kids w/disabilities won't be utilizing the voucher.

Thirdly, poorer families have obstacles like transportation. National school lunch program, etc that prevents them from leaving the public school system to a private school.

So what you are left with, as evidenced in multiple states currently doing vouchers, is that the vouchers overwhelmingly go to middle and upper class families who already send their kids to private school. Voucher=entitlement program for the wealthy.

My oldest has a disability so I am aware of the cost associated with that one at least since we pay out of pocket for it. It's definitely not $50k but I know there are way more costly disabilities out there (although I would like to see some evidence for the idea that the average cost for disabilities is anywhere near that level).

Is public school an entitlement program in your mind?

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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None of that really addresses the information in the chart. Especially the issue of the vouchers spending more money on private schools than public schools.

I'm not against school choice but I've seen very little evidence that it improves educational outcomes as a whole and it appears Texas is just throwing money to private school and ****ing over the public schools.

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There's plenty of proof that it provides good outcomes in states and cities that have it. Go look for it.

Secondly our public schools are indoctrination camps. We need to start a long slowly unwind of this infrastructure and bring competition to the cities school districts that control the kids.

It's about state allotment. Private schools spend more than what their tuition fee is when you consider all the fundraising that is required and endowments.

Texas public schools are indoctrination camps. For **** sakes.

Please provide the evidence you say is readily available.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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It's about state allotment. Private schools spend more than what their tuition fee is when you consider all the fundraising that is required and endowments.

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Why does it matter which fund it comes from (general vs local funds)? It's taxpayer money all the same. The argument that is being made is that private schools would be funded in greater quantity than public schools which is patently false.

I'm pretty good with the argument that it creates additional costs to the state for which the future costs may not be fully known yet but the idea that public schools are not being funded equally to private just falls flat.

As for what private schools spend, I can only speak to mine as I have seen what they spend. It's well below the $16k/student average that I've seen for ISDs.

Fenrir said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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It's about state allotment. Private schools spend more than what their tuition fee is when you consider all the fundraising that is required and endowments.

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Why does it matter which fund it comes from (general vs local funds)? It's taxpayer money all the same. The argument that is being made is that private schools are being funded in greater quantity than public schools which is patently false.

I'm pretty good with the argument that it creates additional costs to the state for which the future costs may not be fully known yet but the idea that public schools are not being funded equally to private just falls flat.

As for what private schools spend, I can only speak to mine as I have seen what they spend. It's well below the $16k/student average that I've seen for ISDs.

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Because this bill deals specifically with state allotment.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Fenrir said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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It's about state allotment. Private schools spend more than what their tuition fee is when you consider all the fundraising that is required and endowments.

---

Why does it matter which fund it comes from (general vs local funds)? It's taxpayer money all the same. The argument that is being made is that private schools are being funded in greater quantity than public schools which is patently false.

I'm pretty good with the argument that it creates additional costs to the state for which the future costs may not be fully known yet but the idea that public schools are not being funded equally to private just falls flat.

As for what private schools spend, I can only speak to mine as I have seen what they spend. It's well below the $16k/student average that I've seen for ISDs.

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Because this bill deals specifically with state allotment.

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No problem, we should just remove the local funding from ISDs when students go elsewhere. I mean why do they need funds associated with children they aren't educating? If a parent lives in one ISD but works at a neighboring ISD and sends their kids to that one, the ISD they work at should get those funds.

The System said:

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WestAustinAg said:

---

The System said:

---

fightingfarmer09 said:

---

Rossticus said:

---

Owlagdad said:

---

fightingfarmer09 said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

This.

One of the big misunderstandings is schools struggle to educate students because they are public. That's generally not true and just a knee jerk reaction from conservatives who are trained to think that way. Public schools struggle, fail, whatever you want to call it because they are over regulated and act as monopolies.
Our Universities are the best in the world and they are generally public but are forced to compete for students and staff.

Want to fix schools? Open enrollment and let schools compete for students. That and let teachers compete for better jobs at higher pay. Do that and 90% of the problems are solved.

---

My brother teaches at a rural 3A school. Good academics, good athletics across the board, and just a quality Texas experience.

If they keep open enrollment like they have now tons of kids fleeing Houston will continue to drive their growth into 4a and 5a demands without the tax base. So they had to close their enrollment to keep the size smaller. But that means those kids just outside of the district can no longer attend and have to go to some poorer rural districts again.

Pass a voucher program that allows the good Texas districts to allow students to apply to get in, but allow the district to make those decisions themselves and get the funding to do it the right way.

---

Agree! But lawyers looking for payday would jump all over this because some turd wasn't allowed in. Media would smear those fine fine folks and their schools. Most school boards and Superintendents don't want to fight those battles- and really they shouldn't. Can't wait until private schools who accept vouchers and turn others down end up in court.

---

Ah! But now you've identified the TRUE crux of the issue. Public school quality is most frequently hamstrung by turds and their turd parents who soak up time and resources while negatively impacting the ability of educators to do their job. You put all those turds in a private school or otherwise high performing public school and suddenly the institution will begin to eerily resemble the much maligned low performing school that they originated from.

None of this addresses the issue, apart from facilitating a means by which some folks can isolate their children from the "turd effect" as much as possible. Schools and teachers always get the blame for not finding a way to simultaneously polish turds AND serve the quality students. If you're looking for a true solution the central issue, vouchers aren't it. Then again, I'm not sure that it's politically or societally feasible to acknowledge and address the true problem(s).

---

The people that are fleeing the "turd effect"
have already left (love the term). This does nothing to help those that remained but artificially inflate the tuition making it harder from those deserving to get into a private school.

No proposal I have seen is worth even a vote, let alone support.

Radical idea, create a draft/trade system. If Catholic High wants the voucher for little Johnny then they have to take the voucher for little Tyrone. The amount of vouchers a school can receive is calculated based on a % of their enrollment that is in designated categories.

For every voucher they accept they have to take on a SPED designated kid. These are the vulnerable of the community that need better schools.

---

F16 doesn't care about any of that. Their kids are already in private school and isolated from the "turds". They just want you to pay for it now with absolutely zero strings attached.

Vouchers aren't about helping kids escape a bad public school. They overwhelmingly go to kids already in private school. Just a big entitlement program for the rich who shout loud about how bad government entitlement programs are.

---

There are plenty of turds in private schools already. The parents pulled their little turd out of the toilet and hoped to get a new start at a new school. But turds do what turds do.

---

And the private school then gets to kick them out when they are tired of them.. And what happens to the money? Little Johnny gets a voucher, pays the private school, then gets kicked out after a few months and goes back to public school.

You can call it whatever term makes you feel good: voucher, school choice, educational savings account, parent empowerment, etc. At the end of the day, it's an entitlement program for the wealthy who love to tell everyone else how bad entitlement programs are.

---

If he gets kicked out, the school won't continue to get the funding. That's pretty easy to understand unless you're just trolling. No different to whatever public school he's in now that requires his attendance to get funded.

Big picture school choice has nothing to do with entitlement or even wealth. The problem most public schools have is parents don't care and aren't involved. That isn't going to change. What can change is the lesser percentage that do care can use this to move their kids to entry level private school that would provide a much better education and opportunity for them to break their family wealth cycle.

It's why other countries have gone to a multi tiered school system to prop up and educate all the kids they can that care and put in the work. The rest go to trades or career like schools after elementary or junior high. Because when the US says education they actually mean books smarts and tests instead of preparing students to be successful in life. That's another place private schools differentiate themselves. Especially the classical schools focused on reasoning and independence.

The joke of calling this entitlement is just about every private school is trying to become more diverse. They spend ridiculous amounts of money (from their own endowments) on financial aid already to bring in anyone that can qualify. The longer the kids stay in public schools the likelihood they can test in is drastically reduced.

As it stands all the arguing in this thread is just a waste of time. No private school (especially parochial schools) are going to touch these vouchers. They don't want government control because that's what got us the current public school situation. They have higher standards and results than the best public schools and even the entry level (cheaper) private schools aren't going to want the government to interfere drop their performance or prestige. Parochial schools aren't going to give the government a single chance to dictate religion or moral requirements to attend.

Fenrir said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Fenrir said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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It's about state allotment. Private schools spend more than what their tuition fee is when you consider all the fundraising that is required and endowments.

---

Why does it matter which fund it comes from (general vs local funds)? It's taxpayer money all the same. The argument that is being made is that private schools are being funded in greater quantity than public schools which is patently false.

I'm pretty good with the argument that it creates additional costs to the state for which the future costs may not be fully known yet but the idea that public schools are not being funded equally to private just falls flat.

As for what private schools spend, I can only speak to mine as I have seen what they spend. It's well below the $16k/student average that I've seen for ISDs.

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Because this bill deals specifically with state allotment.

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No problem, we should just remove the local funding from ISDs when students go elsewhere. I mean why do they need funds associated with children they aren't educating? If a parent lives in one ISD but works at a neighboring ISD and sends their kids to that one, the ISD they work at should get those funds.

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Bring it up in another bill but we're talking about state allotment.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Texas public schools are indoctrination camps. For **** sakes.

Please provide the evidence you say is readily available.

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It's both ridiculous and not far off.

Public schools by and large aren't indoctrinating anything. They fail at being able to teach the basics, to say that and then say they have the ability to indoctrinate is hypocritical at best.

At the same time the vast majority of educators are politically liberal. And it's not unusual for that frame of mind to bleed over to their interaction with the kids. Even in private schools where it's often a point of contention, but ultimately dealt with.

The biggest hang up in any public school reform is that it generally requires some form of expectation and evaluation based on performance to justify increase spend and salaries. This demographic does not want to be held accountable. It's the biggest divide between the public and private sector across the board.

Private sector works hard, has often lofty expectations, high stress that hopefully leads to good pay.

Public sector focuses on time in role instead of competency which lowers stress that hopefully leads to pensions.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Fenrir said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Fenrir said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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It's about state allotment. Private schools spend more than what their tuition fee is when you consider all the fundraising that is required and endowments.

---

Why does it matter which fund it comes from (general vs local funds)? It's taxpayer money all the same. The argument that is being made is that private schools are being funded in greater quantity than public schools which is patently false.

I'm pretty good with the argument that it creates additional costs to the state for which the future costs may not be fully known yet but the idea that public schools are not being funded equally to private just falls flat.

As for what private schools spend, I can only speak to mine as I have seen what they spend. It's well below the $16k/student average that I've seen for ISDs.

---

Because this bill deals specifically with state allotment.

---

No problem, we should just remove the local funding from ISDs when students go elsewhere. I mean why do they need funds associated with children they aren't educating? If a parent lives in one ISD but works at a neighboring ISD and sends their kids to that one, the ISD they work at should get those funds.

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Bring it up in another bill but we're talking about state allotment.

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Nah, I'm gonna stick to my belief that it's an irrelevant distinction by people that are power hungry, greedy and looking to mislead people that only look at surface level discussion.

I'll be perfectly fine if this bill dies like the last one, I just don't like dishonest people.

have there been any studies or any models indicating that increased voucher driven competition for schools specifically will result in more people entering the private school ring to provide quality education?

i get that we operate on the free market philosophy but im just not sure that applies to schools given (as mentioned earlier) it definitely doesnt apply to daycare. most of the new daycares that pop up are either ****ty or too expensive.

it seems like a good amount of hopium being peddled that vouchers will lead to more opportunity instead of just providing benefits to those who have their kids in private school already.

bubblesthechimp said:

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have there been any studies or any models indicating that increased voucher driven competition for schools specifically will result in more people entering the private school ring to provide quality education?

i get that we operate on the free market philosophy but im just not sure that applies to schools given (as mentioned earlier) it definitely doesnt apply to daycare. most of the new daycares that pop up are either ****ty or too expensive.

it seems like a good amount of hopium being peddled that vouchers will lead to more opportunity instead of just providing benefits to those who have their kids in private school already.

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And right now we are talking about a small percentage of kids. For ease, let's say 100,000 children could benefit from this program. 80,000 would come from the public schools. Where are these 80,000 coming from? Are there enough in any one location to develop any competition to the public schools or encourage the opening of a new public school? Or are they spread so thin that it's not going to make a difference in the big picture? Or, if there were enough in one or two spots, the difference is only seen in those couple locations.

bubblesthechimp said:

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it seems like a good amount of hopium being peddled that vouchers will lead to more opportunity instead of just providing benefits to those who have their kids in private school already.

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Explain how this makes sense to you.

i assume this is being asked in good faith

the voucher pushers are making the assumption that availability of funds will result in more private schools popping up and schools then being positioned to compete for those dollars.

my question is whether there's enough data out there to support that assertion. the demand for daycare is through the roof but its difficult to find quality affordable daycare. maybe vouchers are the difference. i dont know. it just seems like an assumption not based on any current research or data (unless i dont know about it)

so like you're talking about disabled kids. how many schools are there out there that are available and affordable to serve those kids with disabilities who are going to get first access to these funds? the assumption is that someone will see there's a market and try and fill it? there already is a market and no one has filled it.

hope that makes sense.

bubblesthechimp said:

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i assume this is being asked in good faith

the voucher pushers are making the assumption that availability of funds will result in more private schools popping up and schools then being positioned to compete for those dollars.

my question is whether there's enough data out there to support that assertion. the demand for daycare is through the roof but its difficult to find quality affordable daycare. maybe vouchers are the difference. i dont know. it just seems like an assumption not based on any current research or data (unless i dont know about it)

so like you're talking about disabled kids. how many schools are there out there that are available and affordable to serve those kids with disabilities who are going to get first access to these funds? the assumption is that someone will see there's a market and try and fill it? there already is a market and no one has filled it.

hope that makes sense.

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I actually think this is backwards.

It's not the voucher pushers that assume more private schools will pop up, but those against the vouchers.

The loudest complaints I see are from parents who have kids at good schools, who are afraid private schools will pop up and take money away from those good schools.

I'm not sure that logic holds though, as I would think that if a public school is good and highly sought after (and presumably more convenient), parents are going to stick with that option.

SB2 on Senate floor right now.

Creighton said, "Many of these students are trapped in public schools or education environments because of a zip code, and that's just not right."

*so many eye rolls*

Can they not see how they should open up public school choice??

Pretty much passed along party lines (not surprising) except for one Republican nay…on to the House.

Howdy, it is me! said:

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Pretty much passed along party lines (not surprising) except for one Republican nay…on to the House.

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They're too busy with Beyonc.