fightingfarmer09 said:

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Rossticus said:

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Owlagdad said:

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fightingfarmer09 said:

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agsalaska said:

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This.

One of the big misunderstandings is schools struggle to educate students because they are public. That's generally not true and just a knee jerk reaction from conservatives who are trained to think that way. Public schools struggle, fail, whatever you want to call it because they are over regulated and act as monopolies.
Our Universities are the best in the world and they are generally public but are forced to compete for students and staff.

Want to fix schools? Open enrollment and let schools compete for students. That and let teachers compete for better jobs at higher pay. Do that and 90% of the problems are solved.

---

My brother teaches at a rural 3A school. Good academics, good athletics across the board, and just a quality Texas experience.

If they keep open enrollment like they have now tons of kids fleeing Houston will continue to drive their growth into 4a and 5a demands without the tax base. So they had to close their enrollment to keep the size smaller. But that means those kids just outside of the district can no longer attend and have to go to some poorer rural districts again.

Pass a voucher program that allows the good Texas districts to allow students to apply to get in, but allow the district to make those decisions themselves and get the funding to do it the right way.

---

Agree! But lawyers looking for payday would jump all over this because some turd wasn't allowed in. Media would smear those fine fine folks and their schools. Most school boards and Superintendents don't want to fight those battles- and really they shouldn't. Can't wait until private schools who accept vouchers and turn others down end up in court.

---

Ah! But now you've identified the TRUE crux of the issue. Public school quality is most frequently hamstrung by turds and their turd parents who soak up time and resources while negatively impacting the ability of educators to do their job. You put all those turds in a private school or otherwise high performing public school and suddenly the institution will begin to eerily resemble the much maligned low performing school that they originated from.

None of this addresses the issue, apart from facilitating a means by which some folks can isolate their children from the "turd effect" as much as possible. Schools and teachers always get the blame for not finding a way to simultaneously polish turds AND serve the quality students. If you're looking for a true solution the central issue, vouchers aren't it. Then again, I'm not sure that it's politically or societally feasible to acknowledge and address the true problem(s).

---

The people that are fleeing the "turd effect"
have already left (love the term). This does nothing to help those that remained but artificially inflate the tuition making it harder from those deserving to get into a private school.

No proposal I have seen is worth even a vote, let alone support.

Radical idea, create a draft/trade system. If Catholic High wants the voucher for little Johnny then they have to take the voucher for little Tyrone. The amount of vouchers a school can receive is calculated based on a % of their enrollment that is in designated categories.

For every voucher they accept they have to take on a SPED designated kid. These are the vulnerable of the community that need better schools.

---

F16 doesn't care about any of that. Their kids are already in private school and isolated from the "turds". They just want you to pay for it now with absolutely zero strings attached.

Vouchers aren't about helping kids escape a bad public school. They overwhelmingly go to kids already in private school. Just a big entitlement program for the rich who shout loud about how bad government entitlement programs are.

The System said:

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fightingfarmer09 said:

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Rossticus said:

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Owlagdad said:

---

fightingfarmer09 said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

This.

One of the big misunderstandings is schools struggle to educate students because they are public. That's generally not true and just a knee jerk reaction from conservatives who are trained to think that way. Public schools struggle, fail, whatever you want to call it because they are over regulated and act as monopolies.
Our Universities are the best in the world and they are generally public but are forced to compete for students and staff.

Want to fix schools? Open enrollment and let schools compete for students. That and let teachers compete for better jobs at higher pay. Do that and 90% of the problems are solved.

---

My brother teaches at a rural 3A school. Good academics, good athletics across the board, and just a quality Texas experience.

If they keep open enrollment like they have now tons of kids fleeing Houston will continue to drive their growth into 4a and 5a demands without the tax base. So they had to close their enrollment to keep the size smaller. But that means those kids just outside of the district can no longer attend and have to go to some poorer rural districts again.

Pass a voucher program that allows the good Texas districts to allow students to apply to get in, but allow the district to make those decisions themselves and get the funding to do it the right way.

---

Agree! But lawyers looking for payday would jump all over this because some turd wasn't allowed in. Media would smear those fine fine folks and their schools. Most school boards and Superintendents don't want to fight those battles- and really they shouldn't. Can't wait until private schools who accept vouchers and turn others down end up in court.

---

Ah! But now you've identified the TRUE crux of the issue. Public school quality is most frequently hamstrung by turds and their turd parents who soak up time and resources while negatively impacting the ability of educators to do their job. You put all those turds in a private school or otherwise high performing public school and suddenly the institution will begin to eerily resemble the much maligned low performing school that they originated from.

None of this addresses the issue, apart from facilitating a means by which some folks can isolate their children from the "turd effect" as much as possible. Schools and teachers always get the blame for not finding a way to simultaneously polish turds AND serve the quality students. If you're looking for a true solution the central issue, vouchers aren't it. Then again, I'm not sure that it's politically or societally feasible to acknowledge and address the true problem(s).

---

The people that are fleeing the "turd effect"
have already left (love the term). This does nothing to help those that remained but artificially inflate the tuition making it harder from those deserving to get into a private school.

No proposal I have seen is worth even a vote, let alone support.

Radical idea, create a draft/trade system. If Catholic High wants the voucher for little Johnny then they have to take the voucher for little Tyrone. The amount of vouchers a school can receive is calculated based on a % of their enrollment that is in designated categories.

For every voucher they accept they have to take on a SPED designated kid. These are the vulnerable of the community that need better schools.

---

F16 doesn't care about any of that. Their kids are already in private school and isolated from the "turds". They just want you to pay for it now with absolutely zero strings attached.

Vouchers aren't about helping kids escape a bad public school. They overwhelmingly go to kids already in private school. Just a big entitlement program for the rich who shout loud about how bad government entitlement programs are.

---

Haven't read a current version, but the one that failed to pass last session definitely would not have given first priority to kids already in private school based on the qualifications that were listed.

Fenrir said:

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The System said:

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fightingfarmer09 said:

---

Rossticus said:

---

Owlagdad said:

---

fightingfarmer09 said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

This.

One of the big misunderstandings is schools struggle to educate students because they are public. That's generally not true and just a knee jerk reaction from conservatives who are trained to think that way. Public schools struggle, fail, whatever you want to call it because they are over regulated and act as monopolies.
Our Universities are the best in the world and they are generally public but are forced to compete for students and staff.

Want to fix schools? Open enrollment and let schools compete for students. That and let teachers compete for better jobs at higher pay. Do that and 90% of the problems are solved.

---

My brother teaches at a rural 3A school. Good academics, good athletics across the board, and just a quality Texas experience.

If they keep open enrollment like they have now tons of kids fleeing Houston will continue to drive their growth into 4a and 5a demands without the tax base. So they had to close their enrollment to keep the size smaller. But that means those kids just outside of the district can no longer attend and have to go to some poorer rural districts again.

Pass a voucher program that allows the good Texas districts to allow students to apply to get in, but allow the district to make those decisions themselves and get the funding to do it the right way.

---

Agree! But lawyers looking for payday would jump all over this because some turd wasn't allowed in. Media would smear those fine fine folks and their schools. Most school boards and Superintendents don't want to fight those battles- and really they shouldn't. Can't wait until private schools who accept vouchers and turn others down end up in court.

---

Ah! But now you've identified the TRUE crux of the issue. Public school quality is most frequently hamstrung by turds and their turd parents who soak up time and resources while negatively impacting the ability of educators to do their job. You put all those turds in a private school or otherwise high performing public school and suddenly the institution will begin to eerily resemble the much maligned low performing school that they originated from.

None of this addresses the issue, apart from facilitating a means by which some folks can isolate their children from the "turd effect" as much as possible. Schools and teachers always get the blame for not finding a way to simultaneously polish turds AND serve the quality students. If you're looking for a true solution the central issue, vouchers aren't it. Then again, I'm not sure that it's politically or societally feasible to acknowledge and address the true problem(s).

---

The people that are fleeing the "turd effect"
have already left (love the term). This does nothing to help those that remained but artificially inflate the tuition making it harder from those deserving to get into a private school.

No proposal I have seen is worth even a vote, let alone support.

Radical idea, create a draft/trade system. If Catholic High wants the voucher for little Johnny then they have to take the voucher for little Tyrone. The amount of vouchers a school can receive is calculated based on a % of their enrollment that is in designated categories.

For every voucher they accept they have to take on a SPED designated kid. These are the vulnerable of the community that need better schools.

---

F16 doesn't care about any of that. Their kids are already in private school and isolated from the "turds". They just want you to pay for it now with absolutely zero strings attached.

Vouchers aren't about helping kids escape a bad public school. They overwhelmingly go to kids already in private school. Just a big entitlement program for the rich who shout loud about how bad government entitlement programs are.

---

Haven't read a current version, but the one that failed to pass last session definitely would not have given first priority to kids already in private school based on the qualifications that were listed.

---

In this bill, if too many apply it goes to a lottery. The first 80% will go towards people at 500% or less of the poverty level and had their kid enrolled in a public school the prior year. The last 20% goes toward everyone else who didn't get a spot in the first 80%. There were so many disagreements about these parameters, from all angles.

It's been put on the intent calendar for Tuesday and no doubt Abbott will address it tomorrow.

Texas Senate Bill 2 (SB2) proposes the creation of education savings accounts, allocating $10,000 per student annually to fund private school tuition and related expenses. While proponents argue this empowers parental choice, it’s crucial to recognize the potential consequences… pic.twitter.com/dlneAYUEco

— Matthew Gutiérrez, Ed.D. (@DrMattGutierrez) February 1, 2025

Teachers, heads up!

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/89R/impactstmts/html/SB00002IA.htm

(From the attached link)
ACTUARIAL EFFECTS

According to the Teacher Retirement System (TRS), if a level headcount is maintained, it would not have an impact on expected funding progress for the system because TRS' actuarial valuation already assumes a level headcount.

The actuarial analysis notes that even a small adjustment such as a decrease in the projected covered payroll growth could be enough for TRS to no longer be actuarially sound according to the statutory definition. TRS' analysis also notes that it is possible an increase in the contribution rate may be necessary in the future if payroll does not grow as currently projected following the passage of this bill.

Sorry if this has been covered in the thread:

Is there anything about homeschoolers in the bill?

kingj3 said:

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Sorry if this has been covered in the thread:

Is there anything about homeschoolers in the bill?

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There is nothing specific about homeschoolers which means they are included like anyone else would be and would be eligible for at least $2,000 to cover pre-approved expenses. To be eligible they must take an annual norm-referenced assessment test or the appropriate assessment instrument required under subsection B of Chapter 39 of the education code.

This is terrible for homeschoolers and a big threat to the freedom they enjoy in this state. Expanding government into homeschooling is the opposite of why people homeschool.

Instead of providing control over educational funds, the state retains control of how and where the money is spent. Corporate vendors may benefit the most from this bill.

Since I don't know where you stand, if you need more convincing on why this is a bad bill for homeschoolers and why a homeschooler should not take the money, let me know, we will discuss more.

Are you upset about demanding results (testing) for the money handed out?

Forgive me if this has already been posted, but is the money portable to other public schools as well?

Same way I read it. Nothing says homeschoolers have to take the money.

B-1 83 said:

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Are you upset about demanding results (testing) for the money handed out?

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Nope. I think in order to be fiscally responsible there should be oversight, which is why I am not a proponent of this or any voucher bill. The government should not have any control or oversight of private education.

ts5641 said:

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Forgive me if this has already been posted, but is the money portable to other public schools as well?

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No, it is not.

"Don't Trade Discipleship for a Government-Funded School at Home"
https://www.expositoryparenting.org/blog/2023/2/27

" Remember "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor"? How did that work out? On that note, can you think of a government program that actually grants more freedom?

While people erroneously believe that they are getting their tax dollars back in the form of a voucher, they are being handed a check with rules.

Oh, I know. Some states don't start with rules. Except for yearly testing. Or meeting with a certified teacher. Or submitting a portfolio. Or an approved list of curriculum.

Newsflash: those are rules.

If you live in a state [like TEXAS] with homeschool regulations already in place, this may not seem worrisome. But there are many states (like mine) with zero regulation. Zero. These programs will implement homeschool requirements that did not previously exist.

State and federal requirements are the trap you will be lured into by the carrot of vouchers. Often, the legislation is passed with minimum requirements to give the appearance of freedom. "No strings!" is what parents are promised, so they enthusiastically sign up for their "fair share" of education tax dollars.

Remember: anything required to receive the voucher is a string.

Government never shrinks itself. In fact, it is quite the opposite. Once government gains a foothold, it never backs down."

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

"Don't Trade Discipleship for a Government-Funded School at Home"
https://www.expositoryparenting.org/blog/2023/2/27

" Remember "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor"? How did that work out? On that note, can you think of a government program that actually grants more freedom?

While people erroneously believe that they are getting their tax dollars back in the form of a voucher, they are being handed a check with rules.

Oh, I know. Some states don't start with rules. Except for yearly testing. Or meeting with a certified teacher. Or submitting a portfolio. Or an approved list of curriculum.

Newsflash: those are rules.

If you live in a state [like TEXAS] with homeschool regulations already in place, this may not seem worrisome. But there are many states (like mine) with zero regulation. Zero. These programs will implement homeschool requirements that did not previously exist.

State and federal requirements are the trap you will be lured into by the carrot of vouchers. Often, the legislation is passed with minimum requirements to give the appearance of freedom. "No strings!" is what parents are promised, so they enthusiastically sign up for their "fair share" of education tax dollars.

Remember: anything required to receive the voucher is a string.

Government never shrinks itself. In fact, it is quite the opposite. Once government gains a foothold, it never backs down."

---

I liked this quote from the linked article but wanted to note our participants won't actually be handed a check; the money will never be "in your hand".

It's actually kind of comical... the ones arguing on the left are saying it shouldn't be supported based on private schools having absolutely no state control, while some on the right are against it because it places so much state control over private schools. Ironically all seem to mirror any fears you hear against a non-socialistic system from people already in said system

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

Teachers, heads up!

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/89R/impactstmts/html/SB00002IA.htm

(From the attached link)
ACTUARIAL EFFECTS

According to the Teacher Retirement System (TRS), if a level headcount is maintained, it would not have an impact on expected funding progress for the system because TRS' actuarial valuation already assumes a level headcount.

The actuarial analysis notes that even a small adjustment such as a decrease in the projected covered payroll growth could be enough for TRS to no longer be actuarially sound according to the statutory definition. TRS' analysis also notes that it is possible an increase in the contribution rate may be necessary in the future if payroll does not grow as currently projected following the passage of this bill.

---

Well that's just peachy. Way to go congresscritters!

HTownAg98 said:

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Howdy, it is me! said:

---

Teachers, heads up!

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/89R/impactstmts/html/SB00002IA.htm

(From the attached link)
ACTUARIAL EFFECTS

According to the Teacher Retirement System (TRS), if a level headcount is maintained, it would not have an impact on expected funding progress for the system because TRS' actuarial valuation already assumes a level headcount.

The actuarial analysis notes that even a small adjustment such as a decrease in the projected covered payroll growth could be enough for TRS to no longer be actuarially sound according to the statutory definition. TRS' analysis also notes that it is possible an increase in the contribution rate may be necessary in the future if payroll does not grow as currently projected following the passage of this bill.

---

Well that's just peachy. Way to go congresscritters!

---

Sounds like the ponzi scheme that is social security. Why can they not use your actual contributions to fund the plan and not rely on future growth and contributions of future teachers.

Phatbob said:

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It's actually kind of comical... the ones arguing on the left are saying it shouldn't be supported based on private schools having absolutely no state control, while some on the right are against it because it places so much state control over private schools. Ironically all seem to mirror any fears you hear against a non-socialistic system from people already in said system

---

That's because some people want the exact same regulations as public schools since it uses public funds (fair, imo) and others don't want any regulations at all because they don't believe the government should have any control over private education (also, totally fair). This bill is somewhere in the middle so no one should be happy. I believe both things to be true which is why I'm not in favor of any voucher system.

harge57 said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Howdy, it is me! said:

---

Teachers, heads up!

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/89R/impactstmts/html/SB00002IA.htm

(From the attached link)
ACTUARIAL EFFECTS

According to the Teacher Retirement System (TRS), if a level headcount is maintained, it would not have an impact on expected funding progress for the system because TRS' actuarial valuation already assumes a level headcount.

The actuarial analysis notes that even a small adjustment such as a decrease in the projected covered payroll growth could be enough for TRS to no longer be actuarially sound according to the statutory definition. TRS' analysis also notes that it is possible an increase in the contribution rate may be necessary in the future if payroll does not grow as currently projected following the passage of this bill.

---

Well that's just peachy. Way to go congresscritters!

---

Sounds like the ponzi scheme that is social security. Why can they not use your actual contributions to fund the plan and not rely on future growth and contributions of future teachers.

---

Thank you! Yes! So glad you used that term.

It IS like social security. Teachers today are funding the retirement of teachers long past, perhaps with higher contributions thanks to this bill, and quite possibly no payout for them in the future. It's a lovely system.

harge57 said:

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HTownAg98 said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

Teachers, heads up!

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/89R/impactstmts/html/SB00002IA.htm

(From the attached link)
ACTUARIAL EFFECTS

According to the Teacher Retirement System (TRS), if a level headcount is maintained, it would not have an impact on expected funding progress for the system because TRS' actuarial valuation already assumes a level headcount.

The actuarial analysis notes that even a small adjustment such as a decrease in the projected covered payroll growth could be enough for TRS to no longer be actuarially sound according to the statutory definition. TRS' analysis also notes that it is possible an increase in the contribution rate may be necessary in the future if payroll does not grow as currently projected following the passage of this bill.

---

Well that's just peachy. Way to go congresscritters!

---

Sounds like the ponzi scheme that is social security. Why can they not use your actual contributions to fund the plan and not rely on future growth and contributions of future teachers.

---

Because they do both. The contributions are managed and invested, and TRS is one of the better managed pension funds across the country (better is doing a lot of lifting here, because it's not great).

If you want to piss off a lot of people in a hurry, just start messing with the benefits that people many years ago made that bargain for.

HTownAg98 said:

---

harge57 said:

---

HTownAg98 said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

Teachers, heads up!

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/89R/impactstmts/html/SB00002IA.htm

(From the attached link)
ACTUARIAL EFFECTS

According to the Teacher Retirement System (TRS), if a level headcount is maintained, it would not have an impact on expected funding progress for the system because TRS' actuarial valuation already assumes a level headcount.

The actuarial analysis notes that even a small adjustment such as a decrease in the projected covered payroll growth could be enough for TRS to no longer be actuarially sound according to the statutory definition. TRS' analysis also notes that it is possible an increase in the contribution rate may be necessary in the future if payroll does not grow as currently projected following the passage of this bill.

---

Well that's just peachy. Way to go congresscritters!

---

Sounds like the ponzi scheme that is social security. Why can they not use your actual contributions to fund the plan and not rely on future growth and contributions of future teachers.

---

Because they do both. The contributions are managed and invested, and TRS is one of the better managed pension funds across the country (better is doing a lot of lifting here, because it's not great).

If you want to piss off a lot of people in a hurry, just start messing with the benefits that people many years ago made that bargain for.

---

Disagree it one of the better managed funds. There are pension plans all over the country that would be just fine if the incoming contributions stopped. Being dependent on future contributions to pay out promised past benefits is a recipe for disaster that only the government could get away with, as they eventually will just steal more from the tax payer.

Vouchers Now!

Randi Weingarten of the American Federation of Teachers calls for more money to be spent on schools in response to the latest abysmal national test scores.

I’ll just leave this chart here. pic.twitter.com/U0ytqdt496

— Laura Powell (@LauraPowellEsq) February 1, 2025

Logos Stick said:

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Vouchers Now!

Randi Weingarten of the American Federation of Teachers calls for more money to be spent on schools in response to the latest abysmal national test scores.

I’ll just leave this chart here. pic.twitter.com/U0ytqdt496

— Laura Powell (@LauraPowellEsq) February 1, 2025

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In what way do you believe this voucher bill will help? You personally?

Taxes ranks in the bottom (I think bottom 10) for school spending, just as a point of knowledge. Not necessarily arguing for or against spending more or less.

Logos Stick said:

---

Vouchers Now!

Randi Weingarten of the American Federation of Teachers calls for more money to be spent on schools in response to the latest abysmal national test scores.

I’ll just leave this chart here. pic.twitter.com/U0ytqdt496

— Laura Powell (@LauraPowellEsq) February 1, 2025

---

Interesting you tube video concerning Texas education spending. SIAP
Education Spending vs. Results in Texas
from the video;

• only ~ 40% of the $93 billion spent on education makes it to the classroom
• student funding increased by 166% while teacher pay only 16%.

Something is amiss with Texas educational spending.

Well, well, well, now isn't this just peachy…bills have been proposed to force schools to opt-out of the "Tebow" bill. They got this bill passed partly on the basis that districts had a choice to opt-in; well, apparently not enough opted-in so now they want to flip it and force schools to opt-out. How long before they force private schools to opt-out of vouchers?

Also, if you take a voucher, no way should your child be allowed to participate in your local school's sports.

For anyone who wants a refresh of the arguments: https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3200781/1#discussion

richardag said:

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Logos Stick said:

---

Vouchers Now!

Randi Weingarten of the American Federation of Teachers calls for more money to be spent on schools in response to the latest abysmal national test scores.

I’ll just leave this chart here. pic.twitter.com/U0ytqdt496

— Laura Powell (@LauraPowellEsq) February 1, 2025

---

Interesting you tube video concerning Texas education spending. SIAP
Education Spending vs. Results in Texas
from the video;

• only ~ 40% of the $93 billion spent on education makes it to the classroom
• student funding increased by 166% while teacher pay only 16%.

Something is amiss with Texas educational spending.

---

It is mostly from increased regulations causing the school districts to need more staff to manage. It is not because they want to.

Logos Stick said:

---

Vouchers Now!

Randi Weingarten of the American Federation of Teachers calls for more money to be spent on schools in response to the latest abysmal national test scores.

I’ll just leave this chart here. pic.twitter.com/U0ytqdt496

— Laura Powell (@LauraPowellEsq) February 1, 2025

---

It would shock you to see how having massive asylum and illegal immigrants flooding your school system does to your testing scores (conducted in English).

No one is keeping you from going to private school.

NAEP truth bomb:

After spending billions in recovery funds, some states deliver progress in key metrics of 4th reading & 8th math: LA MS TN KY WV DC

Others saw continued declines in both: AZ CA FL MA OR TX WA

We cover it in our newsletter today:https://t.co/QVdKe5xTJ7

— Marguerite Roza (@MargueriteRoza) January 29, 2025

Find each state's graph here: https://t.co/VL1Ef2Rg6U https://t.co/G0Dkpmz5sE

— Marguerite Roza (@MargueriteRoza) January 29, 2025

Amazing that Mississippi is showing big gains.

I don't have kids in school. Lots of kids are trapped in failing schools because they don't have the money for private education. Vouchers will give them an opportunity to get out of those schools.

I can give you stats going back for decades on spending versus test scores. Illegals are not helping, but that's not the root issue.

The only reform id be willing to entertain in public schools is eliminating traditional school for 50% of students after 8th grade and sending them to votech or to a detention center until they reach the age of 18. Traditional education is nothing but a gigantic babysitting service for half the students.

Logos Stick said:

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I don't have kids in school. Lots of kids are trapped in failing schools because they don't have the money for private education. Vouchers will give them an opportunity to get out of those schools.

I can give you stats going back for decades on spending versus test scores. Illegals are not helping, but that's not the root issue.

The only reform id be willing to entertain in public schools is eliminating traditional school for 50% of students after 8th grade and sending them to votech or to a detention center until they reach the age of 18. Traditional education is nothing but a gigantic babysitting service for half the students.

---

Then we should be using a voucher program to move kids in successful public districts that are already in the area. That is the only way to hit the numbers required to make an impact. Nothing about this bill does anything except help a select few.

There is 1 private school for k-8 within a 45 min drive of us. But there are 4 good ISDs that I could pick from within a 20 min drive that are PreK to 12. Make that easier rather than a private school that MAY have the ability to take in 4-5 more kids a year.

fightingfarmer09 said:

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Logos Stick said:

---

I don't have kids in school. Lots of kids are trapped in failing schools because they don't have the money for private education. Vouchers will give them an opportunity to get out of those schools.

I can give you stats going back for decades on spending versus test scores. Illegals are not helping, but that's not the root issue.

The only reform id be willing to entertain in public schools is eliminating traditional school for 50% of students after 8th grade and sending them to votech or to a detention center until they reach the age of 18. Traditional education is nothing but a gigantic babysitting service for half the students.

---

Then we should be using a voucher program to move kids in successful public districts that are already in the area. That is the only way to hit the numbers required to make an impact. Nothing about this bill does anything except help a select few.

There is 1 private school for k-8 within a 45 min drive of us. But there are 4 good ISDs that I could pick from. Make that easier rather than a private school that MAY have the ability to take in 4-5 more kids a year.

---

Why do you need vouchers for that? Just ape any student in Texas to attend the public school of their choice.

SociallyConditionedAg said:

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fightingfarmer09 said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

I don't have kids in school. Lots of kids are trapped in failing schools because they don't have the money for private education. Vouchers will give them an opportunity to get out of those schools.

I can give you stats going back for decades on spending versus test scores. Illegals are not helping, but that's not the root issue.

The only reform id be willing to entertain in public schools is eliminating traditional school for 50% of students after 8th grade and sending them to votech or to a detention center until they reach the age of 18. Traditional education is nothing but a gigantic babysitting service for half the students.

---

Then we should be using a voucher program to move kids in successful public districts that are already in the area. That is the only way to hit the numbers required to make an impact. Nothing about this bill does anything except help a select few.

There is 1 private school for k-8 within a 45 min drive of us. But there are 4 good ISDs that I could pick from. Make that easier rather than a private school that MAY have the ability to take in 4-5 more kids a year.

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Why do you need vouchers for that? Just ape any student in Texas to attend the public school of their choice.

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Exactly my point. Certain districts, if you live outside their boundaries, will often charge additional fees on students to make up the differences in tax dollars. Determine a dollar amount that incentivizes districts to accept transfer students and make that the standard value for the voucher. If a private school accepts a voucher they should accept the same rules on attendance and college/graduate readiness testing.

The problem is students getting to pick an ISD that is a 3A and overwhelms their ability to serve the student base will need the ability to turn students away for capacity and to gain additional resources to expand if they want to serve the out of boundary students.

As stated above if you accept a voucher for homeschool, coop, or private school then you cannot participate in the public school athletic programs. There is too much room for abuse to avoid UIL academic performance mandates.

fightingfarmer09 said:

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SociallyConditionedAg said:

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fightingfarmer09 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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I don't have kids in school. Lots of kids are trapped in failing schools because they don't have the money for private education. Vouchers will give them an opportunity to get out of those schools.

I can give you stats going back for decades on spending versus test scores. Illegals are not helping, but that's not the root issue.

The only reform id be willing to entertain in public schools is eliminating traditional school for 50% of students after 8th grade and sending them to votech or to a detention center until they reach the age of 18. Traditional education is nothing but a gigantic babysitting service for half the students.

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Then we should be using a voucher program to move kids in successful public districts that are already in the area. That is the only way to hit the numbers required to make an impact. Nothing about this bill does anything except help a select few.

There is 1 private school for k-8 within a 45 min drive of us. But there are 4 good ISDs that I could pick from. Make that easier rather than a private school that MAY have the ability to take in 4-5 more kids a year.

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Why do you need vouchers for that? Just ape any student in Texas to attend the public school of their choice.

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Exactly my point. Certain districts, if you live outside their boundaries, will often charge additional fees on students to make up the differences in tax dollars. Determine a dollar amount that incentivizes districts to accept transfer students and make that the standard value for the voucher. If a private school accepts a voucher they should accept the same rules on attendance and college/graduate readiness testing.

The problem is students getting to pick an ISD that is a 3A and overwhelms their ability to serve the student base will need the ability to turn students away for capacity and to gain additional resources to expand if they want to serve the out of boundary students.

As stated above if you accept a voucher for homeschool, coop, or private school then you cannot participate in the public school athletic programs. There is too much room for abuse to avoid UIL academic performance mandates.

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Why should parents be denied the right to UIL programs when they've paid taxes? That's why i support the defunding of public schools. They provide an inferior product, indoctrinate students, and exclude taxpayers from the programs they've paid for. Government education sucks and there's no fix for it.

SociallyConditionedAg said:

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fightingfarmer09 said:

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SociallyConditionedAg said:

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fightingfarmer09 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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I don't have kids in school. Lots of kids are trapped in failing schools because they don't have the money for private education. Vouchers will give them an opportunity to get out of those schools.

I can give you stats going back for decades on spending versus test scores. Illegals are not helping, but that's not the root issue.

The only reform id be willing to entertain in public schools is eliminating traditional school for 50% of students after 8th grade and sending them to votech or to a detention center until they reach the age of 18. Traditional education is nothing but a gigantic babysitting service for half the students.

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Then we should be using a voucher program to move kids in successful public districts that are already in the area. That is the only way to hit the numbers required to make an impact. Nothing about this bill does anything except help a select few.

There is 1 private school for k-8 within a 45 min drive of us. But there are 4 good ISDs that I could pick from. Make that easier rather than a private school that MAY have the ability to take in 4-5 more kids a year.

---

Why do you need vouchers for that? Just ape any student in Texas to attend the public school of their choice.

---

Exactly my point. Certain districts, if you live outside their boundaries, will often charge additional fees on students to make up the differences in tax dollars. Determine a dollar amount that incentivizes districts to accept transfer students and make that the standard value for the voucher. If a private school accepts a voucher they should accept the same rules on attendance and college/graduate readiness testing.

The problem is students getting to pick an ISD that is a 3A and overwhelms their ability to serve the student base will need the ability to turn students away for capacity and to gain additional resources to expand if they want to serve the out of boundary students.

As stated above if you accept a voucher for homeschool, coop, or private school then you cannot participate in the public school athletic programs. There is too much room for abuse to avoid UIL academic performance mandates.

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Why should parents be denied the right to UIL programs when they've paid taxes? That's why i support the defunding of public schools. They provide an inferior product, indoctrinate students, and exclude taxpayers from the programs they've paid for. Government education sucks and there's no fix for it.

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Because if you take a voucher you're getting back the school taxes you paid; you're no longer contributing to the public school system.

ETA: If we want to get technical, the money for this proposed program will come from the general fund (which is a problem all on its own) but at the end of the day it's still public money no matter what fund they want to take it from. I didn't want my comment to confuse anyone into thinking funding for this proposed program would be coming from the education fund.

Tom Fox said:

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DD88 said:

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Close to 30 states now have some form of school choice.

Show us where anyone is forced to give up their "freedoms".

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I want to stop being forced to give up my freedom from paying for other people's individual family expenses.

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How does this bill accomplish that?